Dear Americans, how do you go back to normal after such an election campaign?
Dear Americans, how do you go back to normal after such an election campaign?
The atmosphere is so heated, and the statements are getting more and more extreme. Let's just assume Harris wins the election. After a campaign like this, how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
hope my older relatives fucking die or figure out it's time to change. on a more serious note, protest and try to help build coalitions against this but idk it seems quite grim.
I've cut out all Trumpers after Jan 6 2021 basically except for maybe my wife's parents. I'm afraid to ask them. All of us have a spoken agreement to not bring up politics because we all have to see each other and don't want to fight. A major caveat to that is that we see them as little as we can though.
This is the new normal. It’s everyone angry all the time until something snaps or the culture changes. Personally I believe you have to wait until the older part of Gen X is dead before we get relief.
There hasn't been any normal for 8 years plus now. Somewhere between 30 and 45% of the population are openly trying for fascism.
Realistically it's only a matter of when unless we make some pretty damned sweeping changes which they are going to fight tooth and nail.
We need to unrig the judicial system. We need to unrig the voting system. We need to put guardrails up on media disinformation. And we need to start holding some of these fucking politicians accountable for openly lying in campaign. We need to roll back the dictator privileges they managed to shove in at the last moment for the president. We need to hold some of these oligarchs accountable for crimes.
They should lock Musk up for a month. Go ahead and have him shit himself that he's not above the law.
I don't know who the next Republican president will be. But you can bet money there's going to be plenty of bloodshed once they decide to do whatever they want with complete and total immunity.
Way longer than 8 years. Depending on your perspective and level of privilege, it's been decades, generations, or the entire history.
Things got bad after Obama got elected in 2008 and the racists lost their shit. But they were also bad after Bush started two wars, or when Bush got installed as preznit in the first place in 2000. Or when Gingrich went after Clinton's penis in 1998. Or when Gingrich took over the Congress in 1994. Or when Clinton first got elected in 1992 and the racists and militias lost their shit and started bombing things. Or the year before that when the other Bush started a war. Or when Reagan broke multiple laws and got away with it, thanks to Ollie North. Or when Reagan got elected in the first place in 1980. Or when Nixon broke enough laws flagrantly enough to get impeached in 1974. Or when he bombed the shit out of SE Asia. Or when Johnson started a war in Vietnam. Or... I mean it just keeps going endlessly. But that's just my lifetime. If you are Black or Native American the fuckery goes back as far as when white people first stepped foot here.
If you just tweak what you're looking at a little bit you can easily move that statement back to all of recorded history.
I'm sure the sentence for everything Musk has done has to be far more than a month (the election stuff aside, he has some shady financial stuff surrounding the purchase of Twitter and probably Tesla stock, etc). They need to lock him up as long as they would lock up the rest of us if we did that.
Honestly I'm as agoraphobic as they come so, since I hardly ever leave my residence, I find it quite easy to forget that it's an election year, aside from many of the news outlets and media posts dictating it. My life outside of the internet has hardly any political interference.
Yes I still vote, but I keep my political beliefs to myself, but As Marcus Aurelius said, "You always own the option of having no opinion. There is never any need to get worked up or to trouble your soul about things you can't control"
I take a lot of solace in that. I know certain things and have certain opinions but I am absolutely not a politician and it's not something I'll wreck my soul over. Life is short enough as it is.
That's been a growing issue for the last 15 years. The answer is community groups but they haven't been very successful.
how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
...Why would I want to? Seriously, why would I want to have a relationship with people that have shown me that the things they value are antithetical to the things I value? I don't give a fuck if people are nice to me; I want people to be kind across the board.
Our inability to compromise is deliberate.
We can't organize if we can't compromise.
We are supposed to hate our neighbors. That makes any kind of organizing impossible.
There are some things that you just can't compromise on.
I think it’s fantastic because know it is very clear who I need to exclude from my life.
Boomer generation will be dead soon. And Gen X isn’t too far behind. This bullshit is already time-limited.
We've expected that for over a generation. It's more than just the boomers doing this. If you're waiting for Gen X, you're going to have to wait for Millennials too, because we thought the same thing.
It wasn't boomers that were influenced by r/the_donald and 4chan.
Of course it’s more than just the boomers. But once those two generations are dead and gone, they take their lack of empathy and their unfettered narcissism with them.
And I know a few boomers who got plenty of their bullshit from those sites because those sites were just a circlejerk of Fox News lies.
I’m not saying younger generations won’t also have a collection of morons as well, but those generations grew up with this nonsense and they will forever remember the kind of country and world that was left to them.
You don't. Most of us have already either fully cut-off contact with Trump supporting family members or limit our interaction with them heavily. Our country is rotted to the core, and this election won't be the end of it. Even if Harris wins, there will be contestion of the results. There may even be a successful coup by the Republican party. A civil war is not out of the question.
There is no normal. There won't be ever again.
That's the funnest part of all: we don't
You don't. You accept the fact things are progressively getting worse and move on
You live through enough of these "Most Pivotal Elections" and the effect is muted.
I remember Bush winning in 2004 vividly, the soul-crushing realization that Americans were ready to continue the relentless slaughter of Arabs for another four years with a fuck-you kicker to anyone LGBT looking to come out of the shadows and get married. (Nevermind the shady vote counting in Ohio).
That was after the 2000 election was stolen in full view of the public by a nakedly corrupt court.
"How could so many people be so blaise about this shameless disregard for democracy, civil rights, and rule of law?"
But then 2008 rolls along and suddenly I'm surrounded by conservative revanchists who want to talk about secession, because a black guy just won the presidency. And it begins to occur to me... "Oh, I'm just living in a fascist country".
Now, having familiarized myself with US history a bit more, another fascist winning in one more corrupted and propaganda soaked election cycle makes perfect sense.
Great point about the relentless slaughter of Arabs. So easily forgotten how many innocents America slaughtered during this time period. America is morally rotten to the core, high on its own supply of hatred and cruelty.
I wish you were wrong, but I know you're not.
this is normal. half the country is composed of backward degenerates.
24% is backwards degenerates. That's the percentage of the population that voted for trump in 2020. No where near half, no matter how much they may claim to represent half.
Non-voters are complicit in what is happening. Maybe saying they are as bad is a stretch, but they clearly either don't care or are ignorant about it.
Yeah. I was sloppy in my choice of words.
Yes, things tend to calm down. If you read history books about US history, there were times in the 1800s where brothers were killing each other over slavery and where people were killing themselves in the 1950s over their children's sexuality. Time heals wounds, and people tend to swing in a pendulum from progressive to conservative and back again (the 50s, the 90s, the 10s).
I recommend The Lavender Scare by David K. Johnson. It's a fascinating book back when the US government shared a frightening similarity to the CCP. It shows how a community develops in the postwar period, how a moral panic gets set off, how people are affected, and how a social movement starts and heals the country over time. It is almost a word for word copy of what is happening in the US right now, and how people in the past defused a situation that was even more loaded in some ways than today's world. If you are looking for reassurance, it's a great read. Many of the landmarks in the book are still standing, by the way :)
I'm reading Secret City: The Hidden History of Gay Washington by James Kirchick. It's also about the Lavender Scare but the author dives deep into several cases of great government aides whose careers were ruined. The chapters are separated by each presidency, gradually construing a narrative as public opinion shaped the politics of each era. I just have to warn that, as a reviewer puts it, the book is both "exhaustive and exhausting" with a whopping 800+ pages but I think it's worth reading every word. It's so good.
Don't worry, there's the insurrection and riots next.
My wife is predicting a civil war. I can't help but wonder what our role will be in it.
Any countries who are not sliding into fascism that would be interested in hiring two well-educated adults? I really love Germany, and despite some German heritage, it's too far removed to be of value in gaining citizenship or a passport. We visited Germany in the spring of 2016 (and heard, several times, "WHAT is going on in your country?") and she loved it, too.
Here in germany we're sliding into facism as well, again x.x
Our second most voted party here is super disgustingly far-right and gets more and more votes each election - even tho multiple states declared them unconstitutional and there are talks to ban the whole party because it's a danger to democracy and our constitution.
The most voted party is conservative-right and at least by name based in Christianity. They see themselves more in the center, but tend to be a bit to the right from it, at least in my opinion. And some of the top politicians there are saying some really disgusting right shit as well. The party isn't really fascist, but populistic and a bit right-leaning, known for corruption, power-hungry)
Therefore I think germany might not be the best choice if you want to flee facism
(Disclaimer: Constitution = Grundgesetz. Please don't nitpick that our constitution is technically not a constitution. Thanks)
My wife is predicting a civil war.
I don't think the police or the military are particularly divided on who to support. A coup maybe.
But liberals won't be putting up a fight once the media starts labeling them Hamas/Hezbollah and you can't post your pink pussy hat on Instagram without getting put on a list.
Any countries who are not sliding into fascism that would be interested in hiring two well-educated adults?
There's always Ireland. Mexico is looking pretty good right now, given the flood of cheap imports and the resurgent manufacturing sector.
Depends on who wins. They're only insurrections and riots when brown people and leftists do them.
The next J6/Charleston will be covered more favorably than the '64 March on Washington was, now that Bezos et al have shown their colors.
You don't. It wasn't really normal before 2016 and normal left the building since.
Since 2016, its been a constant onslaught of idiots that live on the internet creeping out into the real world with their bullshit and conspiracy theories and half of America taking them seriously
I blame McCain. When he chose Palin to be his running mate in 08, he gave voice to the crazies on the right wing. It wasn't long after that that we saw the rise of the tea party, which led to maga.
I think it really started with the Clinton impeachment, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, then we had the stolen 2000 election, then 9/11, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, "support our troops", anti Muslim rhetoric, then the rise of social media. All coincides with the brainwashed kids/boomers who came out of the heritage foundation. Obviously, the racism and conservatism was always in the background. You could even trace it back further to Regan/Nixon/McCarthy. Also, desegregation.
Yeah the tea party started around 2009, so that tracks. However, I'd say we had this current undercurrent of fascism since Reagan. I don't know if it was a little more chill in the few decades before him but we did also have FDR and internment camps, the Amerocan nazi parties live the German American Bund and others.
It's something that american society can't seem to shake nor doesn't want to
This attitude is part of why we have this problem today. These people didn't come from nowhere. They weren't just creeps on the internet. The percentage of the population that desires a trump presidency is far too significant. Half the country has been quietly wishing for a christo-fascist oligarchy since 2001. They've put in a lot of time and effort to make their dream come true. It's a shame nobody was really watching (even though the FBI has reports going back years about the infiltration of white supremacy groups into law enforcement), at least not close enough to make a difference in its growth.
The unfortunate truth is that this was allowed to happen. We dismissed their beliefs as crazy rantings instead of real threats to be addressed. If people more readily acknowledged the beliefs held by trumpets as real (a real threat) instead of internet insanity, we wouldn't be here. Instead, we shoved them away, crying wacko. Now the propaganda runs so deep in most, there is literally no turning them back. The rise of fascism in this country hasn't been taken seriously enough. And I don't think it ever will be, until it's far too late.
We dismissed
No, the Democratic Party and enlightened centrists dismissed the threat. There were people like me rallying against this bullshit since George W Bush stole the 2000 election. Some of us were able to hear these crazies clearly and realized what they wanted. We were told to shut up and stop overreacting.
Being able to say "I told you so" isn't much of a salve when you're starting down the barrel of a totalitarian regime, but don't paint us all as rubes. People were sounding the alarm, they were ignored.
you don't. you believe them when they tell you who they are and remove them from your life.
Or, do what a disturbing number of people have done and make them the centrepiece of your entire life.
Posters all over your house, stickers and flags all over your mobility scooter, hats, T-shirts, the lot.
One of our neighbors had a MAGA collar for their dog...THEIR DOG. Why do they need to drag their DOG into this? He was a good boy. (Was, because the dog passed away from cancer a year or two ago.)
Very easy to hate. But it's part of the cycle.
It isn't hate. It's leaving the evil, cruel, and/or misinformed alone.
It's not hate to cut horrible people out of your life. You get to pick who you let into your universe. Be picky.
It is now easier to identify political whackadoos and disengage.
I moved to the bluest neighborhood in a blue town in a purple county in a bluish purple state. I actually enjoy talking to my neighbors about politics now, I can out out positive messages without getting my house egged.
It is now easier to identify political whackadoos and disengage
I would have said that four years ago, but between Elon's Twitter and COVID anti-vax hysteria, it feels like crazy people are coming out of the woodwork.
What you see in the news and on social media doesn't paint a true picture of what daily life is like here for people. Most of Trump's supporters aren't the hateful bigots that the Internet makes them out to be, they're just convinced that he's the lesser of the 2 evils. This is why you see that his rallies are empty and he's still polling at ~47%.
Most of the deepest Trump cult fanatics live in communities where that is more prevalent, like rural Alabama, so if you don't live where they live, you just don't really encounter them. And if you do live in those areas, you're already used to the rampant racism because it's always been there.
So me and my immigrant wife will still go visit my pro-trump uncle for his annual pig roast, because he's not a bad person, he's just a moron. I'll still call my conservative mother every week because she's not threatening to kill me for voting blue, she's just consumed too much anti-Kamala propaganda. My religious sister is still welcome to visit because even though she's an idiot, my nieces are freakin adorable and I love them.
I assume you're not in the crosshair of Trump policy once he gets elected? Because for some people threats to their life and voting Trump are about the same thing.
You continue to tolerate your family tolerating and even choosing hate and bigotry, even if they themselves don't exhibit them to your face. Your uncle IS a bad person.
I don't want a normal relationship with my Trump loving neighbor. He and his racist wife can go fuck themselves. Their signs and banners told me who they are. I'm choosing to listen
In previous elections, I'd have been able to give you an answer.
For this election, the crazy will absolutely not be over once all votes are counted. This is a pivotal moment in American History and either result will cause a lot of distress for our collective psyche.
They are just politicians and it is really not that serious. The race is tight and whomever wins is fine. There will be another election in two years and another two years after that for as long as you live.
Sometimes you just don't talk about politics, to avoid fighting with in-laws. That has always been true, and it will always be true.
But I hope you don't "go back to normal", because hundreds of millions of Americans acting "normal" had the power to prevent this kind of scenario from occurring in the first place. Of course there's a ton of corruption, and shady corporations and billionaires (all of them) are major culprits in the badness, but also we the people have a lot of power to fix problems if we can get ourselves organized and motivated. So let's do that.
After a campaign like this, how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
You're assuming those relationships survived the 2020 election. For many, myself included, they didn't.
I was willing to overlook 2016, but after 4 years of horror culminating in a (failed) coup, and those people still supporting him, I just cut them out of my life.
Supporting Trump is no different than supporting Hitler. I find it very easy to cut nazis out of my life.
One side wants me dead, there are no worthy discussions to be had.
That's understandable. It's also, in microcosm, the reason your country is so divided. If you want to continue living in a democracy, you're all going to have to talk - and listen - to each other.
I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, it's not really that simple. Sometimes a relationship is so toxic that there's no way to restore the basic trust that's needed in order to function as a unit. This is no different. Pre-Trump, we might have been able to talk and salvage things; at this point, they're just as broken as a relationship full of cheating and domestic abuse. My fear is that the only way forward is breakup (ie civil war) or some other equally deep trauma.
No. It's called the Paradox of Tolerance. "Discussing" rationally with the intolerant only serves to justify their position in their own eyes and thereby embolden them.
In other words, putting up with them simply gives them more ink
Turning the other cheek only works if the person doing the slapping has a sense of shame. Trump and his ilk have long since proven they have none.
If you want democracy to survive you should be intolerant of intolerance.
you're all going to have to talk - and listen - to each other
We do not tolerate intolerance.
I'm not listening to Nazis so fuck off.
In all seriousness, how does one listen to and communicate with people who have slid so far down a misinformation hole to a place where science is fake, every expert who disagrees is part of a global conspiracy, and the only people they listen to literally can't stop lying?>
I still talk to and value my mother, and believe she is a good person, but she's fallen prey to insidious propaganda and believes that Trump is just a flawed tool for God and the Republican platform is the only way to save the world from the forces of evil.
As an aside, my favorite conspiracy theory was how all the governments of the world were collaborating on the COVID lockdowns so they could control the people and take power. The governments capable of national lockdowns could take power. 🤦🏼♂️
I don't need to talk to those who are openly racist. I'm not talking about some political double speak. I have trump voters in my community that openly use racist slurs in their discussion of immigrants, and minorities in town.
You are the company you keep, and those folks aren't part of my life. Trump was just the vector to illuminate their position that was previously kept in hushed tones behind doors.
Yes, it's our fault that fear-addicted racists have refused to listen to reason for decades and particularly during the last eight years when an obviously unfit clown was committing scandal after scandal. We should be inviting cultists who refuse to listen to us back into our lives and calmly discuss why it is good for the country to be a Christofascist dictatorship.
It's hard to listen to the illiterate.
there is only forward. no reverse.
Lol.
What's normal?
Why go back to normal? Conservatives all over the world have revealed themselves to be 5th columns who will take any opportunity at power, even if it means working with foreign powers.
They seem to have a fundamental belief that God is on their side and no matter how bad things get He will protect them because only they are real people.
It won't be over when it's over. If Trump loses we'll never hear the end of how he was cheated and maga people will get extra weird, maybe violent.
If Trump wins, we'll have trump for president, which from experience is also not normal.
We... don't? Have you not been watching American news for the last... 9 years? I don't speak with my family because me being trans is not fully accepted by them. I don't really want to associate with anyone who is okay with increasing trans suicides via politics. I moved from North Carolina to Oregon to be in a queer friendly state, and I don't regret it one bit. And I have an appointment to get my passport tomorrow... just in case. I don't know if this country can be fixed. People talk about getting along with our neighbors or meeting in the middle, but I don't know how to get along with people who wish I didn't exist.
an appointment to get my passport
You can’t immigrate to another country with just passport and a smile. So unless you’ve spent the last year applying for immigration visas, you’re staying for a while.
You actually can visit Canada as a US citizen with just a passport. So in an emergency, I could cross over in a rush. But mostly I am worried that Trump will say you can't change your gender marker on passports. So I'm preempting that with this passport application.
And I have an appointment to get my passport tomorrow... just in case.
I wish I could say come to Germany, but things are looking grim over here too :(
I do not know of any not-grim countries right now
"Getting along with your neighbors" has moved the right more right... and the left... more right. That center isn't what it used to be.
That and the "we don't talk about politics" bs... In my head I always think "Why? Because you're embarrassed of your political beliefs?"
For me, I assume the Trump voters in my life have fallen for propaganda. Not every Trump voter realized that Trump isn’t in their interest; they’re simple people who think Trump is funny and down to earth and points out many of the serious problems we genuinely do have.
The issue, of course, is that he’s not going to help fix those problems. He’s going to make the country far worse and is obviously only in it for himself.
it's not hard to see what a piece of shit he is so if you're still voting for him you're also a piece of shit.
I disagree.
It's not easy for them to see why Trump is a POS. They are victims of a 50 year effort by the oligarchs of this Country to destroy the poor and the middle class. They are victims of Foreign Propaganda that has taken root and grown like cancer. They have been gaslit into believing everything wrong with this Country is because of a political party, not the wealthy elite who have them fighting for crumbs.
The American people and it's Well have been fed a steady diet of poison and it's led to an intense polarization, isolationism, and record level of fear.
It's impossible to act rationally or reasonably when scared and any one who votes for Trump is mainlining fear, uncertainty and doubt.
They are trapped in a 1984 Orwellian distopia where their entire reality is controlled and fabricated by a fascist organization. Their level of cognitive dissonance is off the charts.
You would not be able to convince them that the sky is blue if Trump told them it was green.
I'd agree, if it wasn't for you having an obligation as a voting citizen to be somewhat informed of your decision. Anyone who votes for Trump has either failed to meet that basic requirement, or they're a shitty person. The latter is actually fine, the former is not.
Well, thats the thing. Once the mask is off it can't be put back on. My relations have cooled with the Trump supporters I know. At least they stopped putting signs out in the neighborhood.
My dad is on his death bed, I haven't spoken to him in years, because he's full on MAGA. It breaks my heart that I lost my dad to that cult and that I'll lose him forever soon, but I will never forgive him for supporting the scum that is proud he stole womens rights.
So to answer your question, being sad and waiting for tomorrow.
To those giving you shit about cutting horrible people out of your life and saying you need to go visit...
Bullshit. Fuck that noise. I have family that I've cut out as well (although, luckily, not my parents). I'm 100% open to them rejoining my life, but their hatred for others is stronger than their love for me, and I won't allow them back until that changes. Spoiler alert: it probably never will, because there's no love like Christian "love".
"Agree to disagree" is reserved for things like "I don't like coffee." Not racism, homophobia, and sexism. Not human rights. Not basic common decency. If I unfriend you during this, it IS personal. We do not have a difference of opinion. We have a difference in morality.
- @cdvaughn16, Twitter, 2020-06-05
Damn. I'm sorry :(
This is the correct energy. You already lost him. What's dying now is some rabies-zombie.
Sorry you had to lose him in such a horrible way. I know exactly what that's like to go through.
My dad is also MAGA but thankfully not very outspoken about it or I couldn't stand to be around him. I'm still quite pissed at Trump and his cult following for putting the thought into my head that his death could be a net benefit to society.
Shit, I’ve been upset for losing a friend, your right, losing a parent is terrible, sorry to hear.
As someone who just lost a parent suddenly.
You will almost certainly regret that.
Nope, when my mom dies it will bring a weight off my shoulders, not having to make sure she doesn't know where I live. The last time she lived by us she wrote manifestos about militant lesbians forcing straight women to become like them and stapled it around work and home.
No they won't. I can't wait for my parents to both fucking die so I can reconnect with my sisters without them being emotionally abused.
Fuck racists, I couldn't care less how they die. They oppose my family, I spent 2 decades trying to accept my family, they didn't.
Sure, because everyone's experience with their parents is just like yours
My father's death was one of the best things that happened to me.
Blood is thicker than your dad's skull. Be bigger than him and hug him before he leaves you forever if it's possible for you. Fuck the MAGA cultist mentality. Overcome his stubbornness and pride.
Your father is going to pass away and you're really gunna let politics affect your relationship with him like that?
Looks like you're the one in a cult. I feel bad for your pops
GTFO with that "politics" bullshit. It stopped being a purely political difference when Trump made it about racism, sexism, and all other possible forms of bigotry. It stopped being about purely bigotry when he tried to stage a coup.
Above and beyond, you don't know their life. Maybe they needed a life-saving abortion and their father gleefully cackled when that right was effectively removed in many states. Maybe they're black and their father bragged about the shootings of black folks, they're latin and he chortled over the deportation rhetoric, or they're Muslim and he rubbed the travel bans in their face. Maybe they have/had long COVID and their father gave it to them because "it's a hoax." There are so many reasons for cutting MAGA idiots out of your life and Trump's political policy is the least of them
Unfortunately, when "politics" equals "whether certain people deserve basic human rights," it's not a minor issue. I don't keep company with people who think I'm subhuman.
You say ‘politics’ like it is some trivial thing. Politics involves beliefs on personhood, human rights, racism, equity, crime and punishment, and fundamental ideas about morality. I think it is totally appropriate to make judgments about a person’s character based on their politics.
"Someone has an abusive relationship and you're really gunna deny them the right to abuse you like that?"
That's how you sound, Alice.
"My political opinion is I am going to strangle the person you love the most to death in front of you while you watch, and if you don't let me have my political opinion, then who's the real bad guy here?"
Make anything ok using this one neat trick!
Let's say your mom needs chemo treatments and can't drive herself. You wanna be good to your mom and drive her, but she's recently developed a behavior from the stress and medication that when she's in a car with someone, she fights with the driver trying to grab the steering wheel and aim the car at pedestrians.
It's not her fault that she's developed this behavior, but you'd think she could at least control herself and stop trying to run over pedestrians, but she says she doesn't want to. Technically, since you're driving, you could convince the police that you're actually the one trying to commit vehicular manslaughter, so while you could deflect the blame, you really know it's her own fault.
You could also physically restrain your mom, except for all those pesky elder-abuse laws and what kind of person would do that to their mother anyway?
So, what are you gonna do? Will you be a complicit party to your mom's desire to see pedestrians run over, or will you stop letting her into your car and let her ride the train and bus like an adult? Remember, she's dying from cancer, but lots of other people experience intrusive thoughts without acting on them and lots of other people don't have family to support them but still manage just fine.
So, what's your answer? Support your mom and tell her it's okay to try killing/hurting people, or let her figure things out for herself and hope that she comes to her senses? She could always prove to you that she realized her behavior was wrong and that she's ready to ride in the car with you.
And don't worry, no matter what you answer, I'm still going to call you an asshole, because that's how reductive internet trolls work. Cuz "fuck you, this is your mom, damn," and "it's just simple defensive driving."
Yeah, I really can't understand this. I have family and friends who vote differently to me, but I would never let that get in the way of our relationship, and I can't understand the mentality of people who do.
I mean, if someone I knew turned out to be a full on neo-Nazi, then I'd steer well clear. But if someone just votes for the other main party to the one I do, who cares?
Oh, that's easy; we don't! Every four years, the fabric of our society frays and tears a little more, while our politicians either exploit our divisions or attempt to repair them without making any changes to the material conditions or systemic problems that create these fractures, because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government! But there's a new Fast & Furious movie every two or three years, so it balances out.
because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government
And how exactly are they supposed to do that without a super majority that is impossible with the population continuing to elect MAGA Republicans?
There is no bipartisan possibilities. No one from the right will step across the aisle to make constitutional amendments or impeach corrupt SCOTUS justices or fascist party members. And they'd need 1/3rd of them to do so for the authority to fix anything.
There is no moving on. Nothing can be fixed. Voters should have woken up after Jan 6th, but Republicans still gained seats in the mid term elections.
There is no legal path to fixing this, we can only do our best to bail water and keep them from sinking the ship.
History didn't start in 2016. The Democrats were happy to cozy up to the Silicone Valley tech giants, even as they developed into monopolies whose products gave users the very brain-poisoning that delivered Trump. They were happy to prioritize Wall Street bailouts over homeowners' bailouts after the subprime mortgage crises, even if meant their constituents lost their homes. They've been happy to sideline or undermine anyone who dares run to their left, from Bernie Sanders to Rashida Tlaib.
The Democrats are not well-meaning, helpless progressives that just can't get anything done because of America's byzantine political structure. They have actively stopped any significant changes to the status quo in order to keep their donors happy. They've spent decades deluding themselves into thinking they could somehow improve conditions for the working class without demanding concessions from the billionaire class, even as the largest wealth transfer in history, from the lowest income Americans to the highest income Americans, was taking place. They may not be as vile or hateful as the Republicans, but they are just as responsible for America's decay.
Not only that, but if they fix the problems that they used to get your votes, they can't use them again next election, and we can't have that so at most you get a pittance of "fixes" while they just blame the other side for blocking it and then the other side does it with a few of their issues. And we'll keep voting for them too because A) who else? B) the other guy is worse, and C) this time they really will fix everything they continually run on. Any day now...
you don't. women have lost their federally protect right to an abortion since trump packed the court the last time, there are more than a million less people alive in the United States today from a mismanaged federal global pandemic response because trump was in the big chair the last time. you don't get back to normal when fascism wins.
I've ended my relationship with my father, and the one with my mom/step dad is on shaky ground, though they've just swapped their vote for Kamala (it took way too much convincing for that to happen though).
Here's the issue I have with these people, post the 2024 (and truthfully, even the 2020) election.
Reasons to vote for trump at this point in the game:
- They've seen what he's said and the kinds of actions he's made and his hate/violent rhetoric/attempted coup/felonies/treason with classified documents/overt Fascism/dictator comments/etc/etc/etc, just the fucking worst a US president, hell even a citizen, can do to abuse their power, position, and hurt their fellow Americans in the process; And they're for it. They support their brand of fascism. Because for some reason they agree with his message and think they're going to come out aces after the dust settles from WW3
- They're ignorant to literally every piece of media, news outlets, cable TV, print, tiktok, fucking Joe fucking Rogan shit, and they genuinely don't understand why voting for trump is bad.
In both of those cases, they are absolutely not to be trusted. I don't think there's too many people left in the second use case, but even so, every single one of his supporters is not to be trusted or respected ever again. They've shown their true side, and it's the worst humanity has to offer.
I didn't realize we had that many pieces of shit living here in America, but we do. So I refuse to associate with them ever again. I will not do business or have any interaction with them again, if I can help it.
They've isolated themselves. I will not fall victim to the paradox of intolerance. I refuse to tolerate Nazi's living in my country. And at this point, everyone who's voting for trump is a Nazi.
I don't give a shit if semantically that's not a PC statement. This is the truth. Downvoting will not change that fact. If you support trump today, you are a fascist that is most closely aligned with the Nazi ideals. I don't want to hear the excuses, or what someone is "really" supporting trump for. It's all noise and bullshit to hide the fact that they are deeply disgusting people all the way through who I do not want in my life, or in power making decisions that could affect me or the people I care about.
I don’t know your situation, but turning from family will only harden their resolve and make them more defensive. I went through this with my mom. She voted for Trump in 2020, after years of me telling her how bad he was. I was angry and didn’t talk to her for 2 months. During this time I heard a podcast with David McRaney, about how to talk to QAnon people. It helped me to understand how they got there, and how to help them out of it. It is a process. They operate on an emotional level, and you have to relate to them on emotional level. After that, you question how they arrived at their decisions. Like:
If I asked what your favorite movie is, could you explain why it’s your favorite movie?
Emotionally connecting with them and then thoughtfully questioning their beliefs, in a non-condescending way can be beneficial. It may take days or months, but once the seed of doubt is planted, it can start a dialogue. Remember, these are people we love ❤️, we owe it to ourselves to be compassionate in conversations.
I sincerely appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply. It sounds like you're a damn good person, and your mom was worth it as well.
I left out, but probably should have mentioned that even before the trump/MAGA stuff came into their lives, we had a deep divide due to a lot of trauma and issues they inflicted on me during my childhood. Both of my parents are different types of deep narcissists, with deeprooted religious beliefs that untether them from reality (e.g. they admitted they would kill me, my siblings, their grandchildren, etc. if they thought god told them to; that sort of thing). Neither of them gave me anything in life, didn't pay for anything really (my dad's child support was spent to keep my mom's side able to "not work", without much spent on me or my siblings), my mom chased a sibling around the dinner table with a steak knife trying to stab him (it wasn't until much later that she'd get medication to help with these episodes), and just generally all the awful normal stuff that happens between divorced parents that deeply, deeply, hate each other and are willing to burn the world down if it meant the other person wouldn't have a pot to piss in. This unfortunately included putting all of us through tons of abuse, court custody cases, CPS visits, police visits (I've had to have my fingerprints done I was 6 because of some serious shit that happened and they needed to isolate the prints that weren't me or another family members to find the culprit), etc. (like, seriously etc.+1000. I could go on for literal days with all the shit that they put me and my siblings through over the years. Haven't even scratched the surface).
The trump thing was a very large straw that broke the camel's back. They were already on thin ice as shitty human beings that refuse to apologize for the damage they did to me and my siblings over the years, and continue to do (I have one of my brother's living with me right now, because of them).
My relationship with my dad ended after he exploded and physically assaulted me in front of his home. I tried to reconcile and work with him through one of our siblings as a mediator and he flew off the handle again accusing me of disrespecting his authority (which was not just taking everything he tells me as "fact" and "morally correct" since I'm considered an "amoral atheist"...), at which point I cut him out of my life. I just don't need that shit added to everything else on my plate in life. He was never there for me, my friends were my family.
Anyhow, again, not to detract from your kind and optimistic reply. Anyone else in a different situation, I would encourage to take your advice.
For me though? Hopefully the context I've added starts to paint the picture of why that's a bridge too far. Even if we somehow got through/past all the trump nonsense, we still have all the above, and about 100x that which I just didn't want to burden a reader with going through all my trauma ;)
Always hurts when they believe the TV more than you
They’re ignorant to literally every piece of media, news outlets, cable TV, print, tiktok, fucking Joe fucking Rogan shit, and they genuinely don’t understand why voting for trump is bad.
I think you underestimate both 1) how many news orgs/media spaces/social communities only report on Trump's successes and democrat scandals and 2) how much of an echo chamber these people live in. Add on a few natural cognitive biases, such as team thinking and discarding evidence contrary to one's worldview, and you have pretty much the majority of Trump voters at this time.
They are completely immersed in a world where democrats generally are evil and Trump is one of the good guys. Nothing has ever challenged them out of it, because at this point the challenges are just part of the narrative of good vs evil. Whether this changes your conclusions or not, I dunno (dunno whether I think it even should change your conclusion!), but I figure it's worthwhile giving an accurate depiction of people. Not all malicious and/or super-ignorant, but rather simply cloistered.
Short answer: I bite back now.
Long answer: My parents are hard-R Republicans. Every time they start getting all "demoncrats r bad" i just ask them, "Why do you want me dead so fucking bad? I know from being raised by you that you fucking hated me growing up, but to vote for "gays should be executed"? This is exactly why you didn't have grandkids, the thought of putting more of your hate in the world is abhorrent to me..."
I've only had to pull that one out twice, so far, but it hits them hard when they still (I'm a few months away from 40) insist I "give them grandkids".
I've known many people to be like this, they just want to slink back, and ignore the blatant. Thank you for having the balls to step up and bite back. People like you are the reason I don't see almost ANY Trump flags in my neighborhood this year. It's a cult of personality that nobody else has quite been able to achieve. Once he's gone for good, things can get back to semi-normal. We still have to be vigilant about the shit Republicans are doing, but at least maybe at that point some family ties will begin to heal.
it hits them hard when they still (I'm a few months away from 40) insist I "give them grandkids".
They should probably vote for people where you having kids is an option then (not assuming you want them BTW, just pointing out the irrational hatred of lgbtq+ has made all kinds of family options harder).
We don't. We are in a new era where only one of the major parties is committed to democracy. Until that changes, we will remain just one election from an authoritarian theocracy.
We need the fascists to stop being fascists. That’s it. Literally once they stop we may not like them anymore but we can learn to live together again
You're looking at the new normal, at least for a while. Trump's 2016 election was a paradigm shift in politics around here. Sure, Republicans were generally grifting ultra-capitalist race-baiting snowflake hypocrites before, but trump really lifted the veil and showed them their true selves. No longer do the need to actually govern or occasionally throw some benefits to their base. All they need to do is keep the hate baiting rage machine running, and their supporters will look the other way as long as they can hate anyone else for any reason rather than just deal with the fact that people exist outside their comforting illusion of "normal".
You think next round is going to be any different? The next round of their presidential primaries are gonna be Desantis, Abbott, and MTG. They are going to keep using those same tactics, because fear and hate are easier for them to live with than hope and acceptance.
That’s where my hope is: they’re no trump. While I have no idea how trump attracts any voters, I can see the reality that these guys attract far less, and owe their prominence partly to trump. I’m much more confident they can’t succeed, and that’s when it all falls apart. After that disastrous run, Republicans have the opportunity to prevail. Will democracy, morals, a guiding philosophy prevail, or just another shit show?
You can't go back. This isn't just a political difference of opinion, this is a full blown violent cult. We need greater funding for mental health and deprogramming services.
This is pretty much what I thought. But I hoped there was maybe something more 🥲
It sucks to make an observation, hate it, be right, do more looking to disprove it because it sucks so much, and keep unavoidably being sucker punched by the same conclusion everywhere you go.
Extreme is only coming from one side. The hateful one.
Is that the groups that hates white people and men, or the one that hates black people and women?
You uhh, you don't.
As many others have said, you don't. That may be part of the devisive-ness experienced here currently, but when one side is stating that the military should be used on dissenters, and the other side needs slaughtered, and they're talking about deporting detractors currently in govt, it's addition by subtraction. Should my side win, I don't expect any kind of persecution of people I don't agree with. Should the other side win, they are functionally demanding it.
"You won't have to vote anymore" is an insane statement from a democratic candidate. "We'll fix it so good, you won't have to vote". And people are on the fence. It's disgusting. Choose a fucking side and vote it.
You don’t.
I haven’t talked to parts of my family the same way I used to. We don’t seek each other out anymore, though some people who do still have connections means we will still see each other for big events like thanksgiving or by happenstance.
Some of them probably think i’m an evil satan worshipping communist based on the last time we argued politics, which was either late 2015 or early to mid 2016, and I was your average slightly socialistic leftist who had just learned about Bernie’s policies for the first time.
With the genocide going on, i feel even more isolated, since I have some family who are harris voters who support israel, and aren’t exactly happy about how vocal I am about palestine. Christian liberal zionism hasn’t been something I could talk people out of.
Those people have proven themselves to not be worthy of a relationship. Those people should be shunned for being inhumane monsters, not welcomed back into society. They will not change. They hate me and the people I love. I, and I assume many others like me, will never forgive, and never forget. And they will not stop. Even if we win the election, we will not have beaten them. This will only escalate until we beat them back and crush their ideology.
Trump is not the problem. Trump didn’t make Duterte happen, or Orban, or Meloni, or Brexit, or Putin, or Bibi, or le Pen or any of the others. He’s a symptom of a dying world
you can't reason with unreasonable people. it's literally impossible to have a discussion with someone who dismisses everything they don't like to hear as "fake news"
as another person commented, it requires serious deprogramming to get rid of the cult brainwashing, and that is not a simple, quick, or easy process
to answer the question: you have to get to a point where you can burn those bridges and not look back, because toxic relationships destroy mental health
I cut them out. Don't remember where I heard the quote but there was one that goes something like "Our values are so different that any relationship we could have that doesn't fall to violence cannot be a genuine one." Essentially we care about things that are too different to be able to talk to each other honestly and get along.
Isn't that like half the country? I sometimes get called "harsh" for wanting to cut the ~10% of AFD-Voters entirely out of my life.
Call it harsh if you want, but they react to my identity and my beliefs with violence. I'm not going to put myself in that situation and frankly they don't have anything interesting to say. Why continue a relationship in which I would either have to lie completely about who I am, or tolerate hate speech directed at me or my loved ones? I don't get anything out of being connected to them, its actively detrimental to my well being. The ones who were family I made it clear that they would not have a relationship with me if they kept at it and they did, so they chose hate over me.
US voter turnout is abysmal, so half of the voters means like 30% of the people.
Not even close to half. More like 30%. Probably a little less.
About half of voters.
As for the other people who can vote but don't, even knowing that one "party" is now a secular cult swearing to build the fourth reich...well, you'd have to ask them. Fuck if any normal people can figure it out.
Unless we get a blow-out for either candidate that cannot be challenged, which does not seem likely based on the polls and battle lines, even if we have a Biden-esque victory for Harris, I’m fairly unsure of what will happen next. I personally doubt full on Civil War like in the Garland movie, or the actual civil war, but I would expect all kinds of shitty legal tricks, possible Supreme Court involvement and of course, stochastic and targeted violence, particularly towards immigrants and minorities. In other words, win or lose, I think the US may be in for a bad time. Hopefully I’m working in my assumptions here and it is somewhat more boring.
To better answer your question though, assuming things don’t completely fall apart: the two sides already don’t mix much, which is part of the problem in the first place. We’ll get more govt inaction due to gridlocked congress, probably more defense spending and some states, in the absence of federal legislating, will continue to take a larger role as they have been doing already in the recent era.
So basically more of the same, on a not-great trend line. Something has to give at some point, it’s hard to imagine how you could put the genie back in the bottle now, particularly with overall conditions in the world due to late-stage capitalism and climate change constricting each year.
I wrote off politics media as hyperbolic and manipulative propaganda in 2016 and I actively distance myself from it, so I've only seen the broad strokes of this current election cycle. Unless you honestly believe you are doing important activism work, give yourself permission to just chill out about politics. If your life is full of problems caused by politics such that it's impossible for you to chill out about politics, you have my sympathy.
Had to cut out both my parents and sibling due to their homophobic remarks and my coming to terms with being gay. The politics just furthered the gap, and the last time I spoke with them in early 2023, "It's all about that woke generation" came out of my dad's mouth and that was the end. I don't expect to hear about their passing, and I'm not sure I'll care, despite them seemingly raising me to be a decent person. These are two humans who canvassed for Obama in '08 & '12, so it was sad to see them devolve.
I'm Canadian and because of QAnon and Trump, I don't have a relationship with my sister anymore and I see my dad once every few years out of obligation, but not a day goes by where he doesn't say something mortifyingly racist or fascistic. He watches Fox News from the US every day. They aren't allowed a Canadian channel because they don't meet our legal standards for truthful reporting. American politics always leak into Canada. I hate it.
If pro Trump. Your pro fascist. Your activity involved in wanting me and everyone I love to be dead or enslaved.
I cut out all fascists from my life. Always have been. So really nothing really will change for the people I talk too.
If Harris wins, ideally I'll do all the things I've been putting off until after the election. I've been meaning to update the address on my driver's license, the registration on my car, and several other things like that.
I live in a deep red state; I've been paranoid about getting them done, for fear of my voter registration "happening" to get lost in the process. And then I'd finally have an excuse to never visit my hardcore right-wing parents ever again, because my mail won't be showing up at their house anymore.
If Trump wins, I'm not going to update anything. I plan to flee. I don't have the means to leave the country, but I've got friends in blue states who are happy to take me in. That's better than nothing, I guess.
Trump could die tomorrow and fascism would still be a rising problem in the US from citizens hunting FEMA responders, to elected officials like Paxton and DeSantis. Unless you consider actual fascism normal there will be no normalcy for decades in the US. Maybe longer if we don't stamp out the fash.
You don't.
Exactly. We certainly didn't after the LAST one.
We don't. The hate continues to rise and election season never ends. Well, the never-ending election season might be ending real soon if someone gets their way.
If Trump wins, you don't
Yeahhhh, that why I rigged this scenario, because "Civil War" would be a very terrifying answer.
The short tl;dr answer is, we don't. For me, it's something I contended with around 2003-2004 when my father stood with most staunch Republicans in advocating for extrajudicial torture of POWs and eventually of civilians including Americans who were mistaken for terrorist agents.
On the other hand, the same event drove me to study moral philosophy so I could explain at length why torture was wrong; he didn't care, which was the gaze into the abyss moment. I saw who my dad was in the dark.
Cut to 2024, and even if Harris wins (and any coup d'etat attempts are put down) we are a long, long way from the scare being over. This has been reviewed at length by CIA and we've heard from experts on civil wars, how they erupt and historically what must happen to prevent social unrest from turning violent to the degree that it overwhelms responders.
The universal panacea is the restoration of power to the people. So that's not to say we can merely preserve elections in the US. Our election system is corrupt and relies on FPTP voting models (one person, one vote) which means third parties cannot be competitive. It also means the two principal parties don't have to be very public-serving to stay in power.
This means Harris not only needs a cooperative Congress (and cooperative state populations) but also the impetus to operate against the interests of her party for the good of the public, and we all struggle to discard the One Ring. She'll also have pressure from establishment politicians, as well as progressives who are not progressive enough to go the distance and let power be diffused to a wider body of persons and interests.
What we can expect are some shorter-term measures, maybe some social safety nets, some relief for people caught in the debt crisis or homeless crisis, even some labor reform so that most of us aren't one crisis away from homelessness and a ruined life. But this will kick the can down the line, and allow the Republican party (whose only trick now is election subversion and procedural coup d'etat when not violent coup d'etat) to persist as it is (and has been at least since Reagan).
Election reform would force the Republican party to reconsider its far-right-wing position and actually offer a platform worth voting for. But so long as we don't get that, they still have viable pathways to seizing power.
All this said, some people will come to their senses as the precarity lets up. Some people will realize they can afford to be less afraid, and that a public-serving society is something worth fighting for. But that is a long, and personal process for each of them, and usually they're pretty repentant when they realize what they had become.
Assuming Harris wins, same way we went back to normal after 2020 and Jan 6. Those people that lost will go back to being the same jackass people they were before, but there won’t be any “popular uprisings” this time around. Jan 6 was the best shot they had when Trump was in power and could’ve conceivably tried something, now they have nothing.
Trump will be diminished, his court cases start piling on again and he hopefully dies of natural causes while taking a shit on a golden toilet. How MAGA “moves on” after Trump is the bigger question. Do the moderates take back control of the Republican party, or do they become even more unhinged?
Shit goes to hell if Trump wins and takes the presidency or if he gets Seal Team-Six’d by Biden before he even gets into office, which he apparently has the legal standing to do, but likely won’t because Democrats are dumb and will “take the high road” into fascism.
ask again in a week and then again in three months
Finding normalcy isn't hard at all. It's fanning the fire of discontent to effect real change that's the difficult part.
For me, it's super easy. My "normal" relationship with Trumpers is one of intense scorn and derision because they're terrible people that I want nothing to do with. So nothing's going to change for me.
It's pretty simple: they willingly sacrificed every last ounce of humanity for a grifter / bully. They're not coming back. Chasing after the relationship you used to have with them before they decided to embrace virulent hatred is a losing proposition. Sure, you can mourn that lost relationship, but hoping that they're going to magically see the light and stop being the human equivalent of anal warts is only going to cause you further disappointment and pain.
Considering I usually don't spend a lot of time focusing on the election, just enough to know roughly what's going on, I just do business as usual. I also am not in any groups where I deal with major politics during election past my parents watching the news and such.
Normal departed permanently after we a stolen election in the year 2000.
I usually just go to Donald Rumsfelds grave and shit on it. It brings such piece of mind to know he’s dead.
I don't think there is a "normal" anymore? The 2028 campaigns will start on November 6.
I don't think that they do recover anymore. Not since Bush Jr.
Maybe this is the reason why American election campaigns never really end.
Ignore it all in the first place.
After this one? We don't. We went back more than half-a-century this time around. Gonna take a bit, if at all.
I'll share a comment I left on another post a few weeks ago because I think the message is important. It's my own story of how people can change, and also comments from someone more directly in the eyes of current extremist supporters. I got a few downvotes for being naive or overly sympathetic in some opinions, but I still stand by my opinions.
Will I be skeptical of conservatives after this election? Of course, since I was well before the MAGA era. Will there be some people I never associate with again? Of course, since some really revealed themselves to be bad people. But most really just seem ill informed or unable to relate to things beyond their own spheres of influence. But just as people were mutable to become this way, they can get out of being this way. It's up to each person though to determine what level of effort they're willing to put into it though.
If things get worse after the election, I may harden my stance, but I'm still hopeful for now. Most of my loved ones though are liberals and gay people though, and when push comes to shove, they will always win out with me. I won't condone hateful behavior and people can get lost as long as they're going to do things to spread that crap, but if they decide to be receptive and compassionate again, they need people that will be there to receive them back to normalcy.
Margaret Killjoy was recently talking on one podcast about mutual aid during the recent hurricanes. She was talking about how her neighbors probably have starkly opposite views as she does as a trans anarchist, but she believed that in a situation like this where it could mean life or death, that they would be able to set differences aside and work together for their mutual benefit.
She also went on to say that she didn’t hate them and wish them any harm, she just wished that they would stop holding on to hateful and hurtful beliefs.
Most of my family and my girlfriend’s families support just about all of this MAGA crap, but I don’t know if I could call a single one of them a bad person. Some of them treat me differently in what I feel are very obvious ways, but I don’t believe any of them would let me suffer on purpose. They all seem to not have problems sympathizing with people or situations they are personally familiar with, but with concepts that they are unfamiliar with, they can find them unimportant, and develop bad takes on those things.
As my family is almost all conservative, I was raised that way, and until my later 20s, I had a lot of the same beliefs. As I met more people, learned more things, and developed opinions of my own, I am now mostly the opposite person I was. I can see how wrong I was about just about everything.
I feel it’s ok to hate the beliefs, and dissociate with people while they hold those beliefs, and especially while they act on those beliefs, which includes giving power to those pushing those values on others. I don’t think we should turn our backs totally to them as people though, if that makes sense. If they were hurt, I would still help them. If they needed something, I would help them to get it. If they want me to meet them somewhere in the middle ideologically, most likely not. But it’s part of my humanity to not leave someone to suffer just because they’ve got some dumbass beliefs.
You have every right to associate or not with whomever you wish. You can believe the opposite of people and think they are wrong for what they believe. But I think most people are inherently good. Some make it much harder to keep that belief, but I don’t think many are lost causes or irredeemable.
We haven't really since all this far right bullshit started. It gets less intense after elections, but it's different from before: When the elections ended, things did pretty much go back to normal. This shit is a plague on humanity and it's happening all over the place. I think it's being driven by billionaires and corporate conglomerates, look at the history channel for example: They stopped showing actual history and now just air bullshit reality TV, like they want people to forget the horrors of fascism.
Elon turning Twitter into a Nazi bar, Bezos quashing the WaPo endorsement, Peter Thiel and all his bullshit, Putin and his oligarch buddies: This shit is a concerted effort to bring back some of the most horrific shit humanity has perpetrated just so they can keep on getting richer and maintain their power.
Well, the way we "went back to normal" after an intense election campaign in 2015-2016 was just...not. Not letting it end for the last nine years. This is essentially still the same campaign that started with the stupid escalator ride. I hope it actually does go back to some semblance of normal in a few months, and we can see how that works then.
I think Americans need to address the flaws in their 2 party political system and start working on a change, but it'll never happen because neither party would give up power like that.
Two party system is inherently divisive especially with so much foreign and domestic propaganda. More options would not only reduce the total surface area of conflicts, but it would make propaganda much harder and represent people more closely.
Once you block the unholy trifecta of tankie-subs, suddenly the world isn't so shit.
Was America ever "normal"?
According to my American gf: being a decent human being
Most my friends are republicans so we shit talk a lot back and forth. After the election we will just shit talk about something else. Yes we are over 40 and still act like teenagers.
My main concern right now is that my two oldest kids are asking me why I’m voting for Harris lol.
Yes we are over 40 and still act like teenagers
NGL that is something I hope to preserve with my friends too!
Idk maybe I'm getting older, but I've been through enough elections in my life to step back and see that this happens every time. The Internet turns to shit and everyone flings shit for a few days and then it's back to normal.
I feel like I'm past my prime in caring as much this year. My battles were fought in the past and now I'm disinterested in politics because I've been disappointed every time.
Past elections didn't have one of the candidates spouting Nazi rhetoric, though. I think this election is a whole lot different (and holds more at stake) than Bush vs Gore, for example.
More at stake than Bush vs Gore? Bro forgot about the 20 year war already
Hi. Looking at your recent post history, I think you might be a right-winger pretending to be a socialist who is arguing for not engaging in this election in order to ensure Trump wins. If that is true, you're unpleasant.
It's unpleasant that you assume this
I'm flattered you looked at my history, but you didn't have to spam my comments. Yeah I'm a Bernie guy, not a Republican. I feel like the democratic party has given up on progressives like me so I'm disinterested in voting this time around. I'm getting tired of people accusing me of being a trump supporter, not going to lie.
I've always been a very anti war person and find it funny everyone is calling Trump Hitler when Biden/Harris are actively supporting genocide. But hey what do I know, right? "Vote blue no matter who" bullshit every year with no primary, right?
I feel as if boycotting this election is the moral high ground and it's fucking rude that people keep telling me it's equal to voting for Trump. How is that a tactic to get people to vote for your person anyway?
Help them to understand what happened, why it happened, and what will happen. After 2016, I had to explain to my lib family members that no, black people didn't cause Hillary to lose, the dems gave us trump by failing to even promise to improve people's material conditions, and to my conservative acquaintances "no, trump is not draining the swamp, he is a billionaire, he IS the swamp."
In 2020, it was "no, Biden isn't going to stop covid, empty the migrant camps, or abolish the police, he's going to continue 95% of Trump's policies, we've seen this all before under Clinton and Obama."
Nothing to get back to when you don't pay attention in the first place
I curse and shout whenever I see a political ad. I cut relations with all Trump supporters back in 2016 and now I am cutting off all Harris supporters.
It is like any other election for me. I don't want either of them. I'm guaranteed to be disappointed.
Don't assume that the majority of people who vote for Trump, are MAGA.
Many, if not most, are the same as many Biden/Harris voters in that they hate both candidates, and are voting for who they view as the lesser of two evils.
As I'm a Lemmy user, you can safely assume I'm not one of them, but the point stands.
But, if you're talking about people who have gone full on MAGA insanity, well they probably got there somewhere between 2016 and 2020, so there's not a a ton of new converts to deal with.
And even with then, they're the minority of a minority.
Of course, if someone is of the opinion that anyone who votes for Trump, no matter the reason, must be excised from their life, well that's their choice, but I kind of pity them.
Trump is not Hitler. He's too lazy and stupid to be Hitler. Let's not pretend that voting for Trump is the same as supporting Hitler, it's not.
He's a piece of shit authoritarian, but on the scale of American Presidents, the areas where he deviates the most from the norm, is how stupid and crass his corruption and racism is, not that he was corrupt and racist.
No sane person can listen to a second of Trump and call him less evil than anyone. Anyone who votes for him is voting for a fascist state, and you're not fooling anyone by pretending you're not.
Voting for Trump (or for any Republican candidate for elected office) is voting for one-party autocracy. Even if the individual is ethical, they will be pressured into serving the party (or removed for a more loyalist alternative). Not voting for a Democrat when there's a Republican candidate is not voting against one party autocracy.
Trump is not Hitler. He's the Secret Hitler of this election. Even if he's less bright than Hitler and less charismatic than Hitler, he's fulfilling the same role, and the outcome will be the same, a one-party autocracy propped up by fascist enemy-within rhetoric and a massive deportation effort that will ultimately turn into a massive evacuation effort. (That is, evacuation into mass graves, or even an ash pit).
We are on the precipice. Do not fuck around. Do not think otherwise. Do not let anyone else think otherwise. If Trump wins, the world is going to hold America's beer while it works to enact a holocaust that dwarfs the Holocaust... unless the resistance is really good (it's probably not) or the Allies overrun Washington (not in time).
I still can't look you people (Americans) in the face from the last dozen horrible things you've collectively done.
How can you ever let your guard down around this maniac society, let alone go back to normal?
Living in the interior of the stolen lands, what normal do you even think there is to offer? Endless towns build on nothing but walmarts and jails, having displaced any culture of value generations ago.
And which country are you from?
Right? How does anyone make that statement about people today "living in stolen lands"?
Speaking as an American, I hate how our government runs, there are tons of issues with it, and I do what I can't to help fix it. Like the majority of us are not happy, but we have not collectively done these things, most of the terrible things that have happened in America are the machinations of a wealthy elite who have been able to shape voting districts and policy thanks to continually laxing regulations and unfettered capitalism.
I was just born here, I didn't make this place. This place isn't what I want it to be. Just line any other country, we are all just people trying to live and get something out of life. With the way the education system is here most people don't even realize how ass backwards things are because "that's how it's always been" for them. It's upsetting. But it doesn't make them bad people, just naive usually. This is why things like intersectionality and critical race theory are so important and this is why the far right in this country is pushing against them. The issues in America boil down to race and class based inequality, intentional defunding of public programs, and then miseducation of the populous on these issues and how they actually affect everyone. I promise you those of us who understand all this are doing everything we can do reverse course. Personally everything happening here weighs on me heavily and I often forget to enjoy what's right in front of me because the big picture is so scary. It's stressful as fuck.
The simple answer, if they wrap their entire personality up into red or blue I don't associate with em anyway. The fools who believe either side cares for them is hilarious. Frankly until there is a third option to split the vote it's one giant dumpster fire regardless of which rich fuck wins.
Our regional election's up in the air as so many districts had a third party spoil it that the cruel aristocracy won. Time and time again, like some Stein nightmare made real.
Like:
- progressive 48%
- conservative 49%
- third party splitter 3%
Our popular vote is 48.52%, 48.51%, 2.87% .
In every case the no-chance green vote killed a majority. We're going to end-up conservative, and led by a climate-change denying anti-vax Mr Burns.
Bot, #bothSides, right?
We simply don't talk politics. My wife is the peacemaker. When someone brings up something political she shuts that shit down quickly.
It's when people don't know what to talk about other than politics that I think they are truly lost. Watch some fucking football and hate on each others' team. I think some people need that sort of idle animosity.
Anyway, there are more to people than politics.
To the many people here saying (apparently with pride), "I just cut them all out": You are making the problem worse.
Honestly, if this is really your attitude to your fellow citizens, you deserve what you get. They have a vote.
Fuck that, and fuck you. They made their bed. Lying in it is the natural consequence.
Naw, you are not owed sex or friendship.
This feels like if erectile dysfunction could talk.
Can you elaborate on this?