Apparently, caffeine in soft drinks is synthetic. I thought they just used caffeine that is extracted from decaffeinating coffee beans - not so. Also it's barely produced in the US (anymore), and we mostly import it from China.
Neat part is: it doesn't look all that complicated to synthesize and requires some common-ish organic compounds and solvents to make. As a bonus, the "the raw synthetic caffeine often glows - a bluish phosphorence". If anyone is on his Patreon, please give NileRed a nudge to give this a shot; I think it would be right up his alley.
So we can get by without coffee, but short of running your own chemistry lab, it's going to be a bit before industry can ramp up production of the synthetic stuff. Meanwhile, caffeinated beverages across the board would be more expensive were synthetic caffeine a part of any tariff scheme.
All this insecurity about tariffs has me hoping he have a Boston Tea Party situation. If I recall the story correctly, they threw the expensive British Tea overboard to protest the tax.
Similarly, I also recall a sugar tax, and either an ink or paper one: basically, I hope I can see something similar to see there's still a small piece of American values from our ancestors (not the twisted Conservative heaven MAGA wants, but on the American dream of freedom, liberty, and justice for ALL.)
I feel like most people I have heard talking about them while supporting Trump seem to know that tariffs are taxes, but have no concept of how they play out in a real economic situation. Most fall into one or both of two camps:
A) Tariffs are taxes, but they're taxes for companies not individuals, and they're only applied to importing, so they won't affect me.
B) Tariffs are taxes for foreign companies, to level the playing field and keep American business competitive. Since the companies that have to pay it are foreign, it won't affect me.
Spoiler alert, guys: no matter where the tax is levied in the system, the consumer is the only person who ever pays for it, since they're the only ones that can't pass that cost on to anyone else.
Also, while this can make domestic competitors more competitive, it's important to remember two things: first, if it works, it's only working by making things more expensive for consumers, and second, this assumes that the domestic competitors want more business, have the ability and posture to increase their production to meet the new greater demand, and will operate in good faith. Much more likely is that they simply also increase their prices in reaction to the tariffs, so they're not producing or selling any more volume and aren't creating any jobs... they're just padding their profit margins at the corporate/shareholder level while doing nothing for their employees, all while having the average consumer foot the bill.
That's exactly what happened with the steel tariffs in the first Trump term and that's exactly what will happen now...the only difference is that this time it seems like there will be significantly fewer economic buffers between the tariff and the consumer, so more people will more directly feel the sting here...and presumably the mental gymnastics from the MAGAts will be even sadder in their attempts to somehow make it not a criticism of their orange leader's incompetence.
"Surely the company that sells a product for $100 will keep selling the product for that price once tariffs mean that it costs a $125 to produce and import!" - crazy people.
Tariffs are taxes, but they’re taxes for companies not individuals, and they’re only applied to importing, so they won’t affect me.
Typical Magoo (literally my dad in 2016): "you can't tax business owners, they're going to just make everything more expensive for us! They pass on the burden to us!"
Also Magoo: "Yay tarrifs! They are a tax on business but that won't get passed on to me!"
The Magoo motto: Whatever words I need to use to suit my purpose I will use, to hell with reality.
I prefer buying my coffee and chocolate directly from the child slave labour. None of that free trade shit. It makes me feel connected to a past I never lived in.
Because of your lack of patriotism for our national beverage, the leadership has decreed that you will now only be able to drink caffeine-free Diet Mt. Dew.
Who are we kidding? Trump’s going to enforce it selectively to nefarious ends and enrich himself off exemptions that he’s hand picked to be subservient. Free market my ass.
I've been saying this. I'm curious to see who wins out. In this case it's populist bullshit vs American coffee retailers. Let's see who comes out on top.
I'm not American, but tariffs to fix import issues is pretty stupid.
This is the capitalist dream, export all the production of the goods you use daily to third world countries, who will have shit labor practices like the US used to have when slavery was a thing (and bluntly, for quite a while afterwards), so that the boots-on-the-ground laborers that produce everything are either treated like slaves or literally are slaves, then import the raw material to be manufactured into whatever you're selling in the US, so you can slap a "made in the USA" sticker on your shit to enhance sales and charge more. Meanwhile "made in the USA" doesn't and shouldn't imply that there's no imported goods going into the manufacturing process to make that thing, just that you took raw materials (from wherever) and made this thing in the USA.
Tariffs unduly harm end consumers, pretty much everything we buy and own is, or has components that are, imported shit.
Most microchips, a large amount of the food we eat, most electronics, pretty much everything you'll find at a dollar general, etc (the list is very very long)... all imported in whole or in part.
Hell, there was a time that it was more economical to have your raw materials, even if they're mined/harvested/produced in the USA, shipped overseas for assembly by slave labor, then shipped back for sale to the US public, than to have it assembled inside the US. Much of that is still true. The US neither has the manufacturing capacity, nor the desire to build their own shit. The only time that's not the economical option is for large cost (and scale, either in size or money) items, like housing or vehicles. Assembly generally happens in the country/landmass where the vehicle will be sold and used. Even a company like Toyota, a Japanese brand, will have assembly plants in the USA for cars sold in the USA, because that's cheaper than importing hundreds of vehicles. For everything else, it's generally cheaper to assemble it outside of the country and import the final product.
You think process are high now? Wait until the tariff wars really kick off.
No company is going to accept the costs of tariffs and be okay with that eating their profits, they're passing that cost into consumers, because we're the saps that are still going to buy it.
When the tariffs come down, and they will eventually, prices will drop, but not to where they were from before the tariffs. Companies will continue to post record profits, justifying not giving raises because tariffs, and wages will remain stagnant. We'll earn less, while they rob is for more than they already do.
The worst part is that when the tariffs are lifted, we'll thank them for lowering the prices by buying more of their shit. We'll be grateful for the opportunity to pay even more into their profit margins.
Congratulations, you're experiencing late stage capitalism. The system is working as intended. You are poor, you remain poor, barely able to scratch out a living, while your owners profit more and more off of your hard work, and you get to thank them for that opportunity.
The worst part is that when the tariffs are lifted, we’ll thank them for lowering the prices by buying more of their shit. We’ll be grateful for the opportunity to pay even more into their profit margins.
Prices won't go down, companies will pocket the difference
Oh, they'll go down.... But it won't be nearly as much as it went up to cover the tariff.
What I'm thinking is, let's say a widget is $100, tariffs go in at, say 5%. So it should cost $105, but the price increases to $110. People cry bloody murder, but ultimately they "need" the widget so they buy it. Tariffs go away, yay, the price is dropped, it's now $107.99
You spew this every day for the next four years with as wide a firehose as possible. Track every tariff and price it effects, scream it into every tar pit media site out there. Literally just shove this in everyone's faces for this entire time. Every time.
I would say that we've also largely lost the means to afford stuff built here, in large part as a consequence of our endless pursuit of cheap crap while scraping the bottom of the barrel with outsourcing. Even if you want to buy domestically-made goods, since we've lost so many of those good union jobs, especially in manufacturing, we no longer have the means to pay what it costs to make such a product with American workers. Especially if people intend to continue with their current consumerist trends.
I'm making $20/hour at the moment. If I want to buy American, union-made shoes, it'll run me $400 a pair, on the lower end. I think it's pretty reasonable to have a pair of work boots, a pair of regular shoes for wearing out and about, and a pair of dress shoes, which at that low end will run me 37.5% of my monthly gross pay. Now do the same for domestically produced clothing, and you've probably run up a bill of several month's pay, just to have enough outfits to last you a single week, leaving aside coats, seasonal clothing, or formal attire. We're either going to have to sharply curtail our purchasing and focus on buying a smaller amount of goods meant to last as long as possibly, or the sadly more likely scenario, we'll see the establishment of domestic sweatshops to fuel the consumerist impulses of what remains of the middle class and up. Whether we'll just go even more insane in our treatment of the poor here, or use prison labor and undocumented migrants "pending" deportation in these sweatshops remains to be seen, but Americans have demonstrated we shortsightedly value our ability to accumulate cheap trash over anything else.
I'd love to be proven wrong, and see a growth of strong unions and domestic production leading to a resurgence in American craftsmanship again, but the current environment is less than amenable to this outcome, to put it mildly.
I don't mean to imply the US should go back to manufacturing their own goods like they had to before global trade was economical.
I hope the point I'm making is that the people like Trump, mostly aggressive capitalists, are significantly in favor of these trends, and adding tariffs to imported goods will harm the businesses that the tariff is intended to protect.
Sales will drop because most goods are simply more price elastic than that. Cost goes up, sales drop, and overall you lose profits. When costs go up, alternative products are supposed to take up the business you lost by raising prices.
Though, to be fair, that price elasticity model is broken. Most product types have been agglutinated into a couple of large companies in an oligopoly, so all brands of that kind of product raise prices to match all the other brands. With no other competition in the market, consumers have the "choice" of paying more for the same thing, or not buying it.
In any case, the entire economy has been so thoroughly fucked by corporations that is just a money printing machine for the ultra rich to get richer.
It sure would help if Americans weren’t generally ignorant about uh… tons of stuff and especially anything that involves other countries. All sorts of fruits and vegetables are imported - green beans, cucumbers, squash, tomatoes, lettuce, berries, bananas, onions, cauliflower, broccoli, eggplant. And then at the same time, the Trump bros want to crack down on groups of people who make up a large portion of the domestic agricultural workforce? It’s difficult to see some conservative policies as intended to do anything other than just fuck people over and cause chaos.
I think thats what the crypto people are banking on. Rapid inflation. You're better off just buying imported goods now though, you can always sell them the crypto people at a markup later. Real goods have far more intrinsic value.
Chocolate, cinnamon, vanilla, pepper, tea, bananas, and a fuckload of other things that are completely integrated into our regular diets are almost exclusively imported.
That can't be right. Corn can't be only 85% of our food.
But seriously, there's so much goddamn corn. Our meat is fed corn. Our processed foods and drinks are pumped full of corn. Even our fucking cars eat corn. We're up to our fucking ears in ears of corn.
Sugar is fancy now? Man my grandpa would be thrilled were he alive. There's a colloquial term for the farm-houses of sugar beat farmers in Northern Germany, "beat castles", as they quickly made a lot of money growing the beats in the late 19th century. When sugar became more accessible due to the processing of the beats to refined sugar. The wealth is long gone now, similarly to how salt used to be a luxury good.
A lot of fruit/veg is grown in places they can get away with slave wages and then shipped here because that’s how little labor costs. Less than our already super low paid fruit/veg pickers that are primarily the people who escaped the countries and situations that put them in those even lower slave wage places.
As an American born and raised in Illinois I can also inform the rest of the populace our corn also gets used to make ethanol, an alternative fuel source.
Im guessing they also never seen how much the coffee from there cost. Plus supply and demand you dumb fucks. The cost will skyrocket. Kona coffee ranges from $30 to $100 a bag. Think of a massive increase of demand. Are we going to pay $100 a bag for low end stuff?
Hawaii does have the largest coffee growing industry in the entire US but they are severely limited by the amount of available land. Compared to other coffee-producing nations, the Big Island is microscopically tiny, so they mainly focus on high quality, artisanal product sold at extremely high prices. Not that I would mind if all the coffee sold everywhere would be replaced by Kona coffee overnight, but it just isn't feasible.
You can grow a banana at home. Dwarf banana plants can grow inside. The normal size banana plant is not living room sized, no wonder people think they grow on trees
But how many people drink coffee? And how many bananas can you grow for your self?
Much of that is cotton. I believe that in the "good" ol' days the US grew that themselves. Start that industry up again, and you don't need mass deportations across the border.
All we need to keep that industry running like the good ol' days is a massive industry of government subsidized illegal immigration of easily identified persons
Most competent governments think like this goose because their believe in rules based order and systems. Trump doesn't ascribe to that view and I think he will make a sweeping change and will personally govern exceptions until it suits himself and his base. Hopefully that mangment consumes his time enough to make him less effective.
I work at a small, premium pet food manufacturer. People already complain about our prices. While most of our ingredients are sourced domestically, specialty meats are not. Lamb, duck, venison, goose, etc. going up will dramatically raise our prices.
Many of our products are chicken, pork, or beef-based, and these ingredients are sourced domestically. The fun twist is the rise in popularity of breeds and designer mixes that are predisposed to ingredient sensitivities or allergies. Many of these breeders advise against chicken or beef in these dogs' foods.
You'd think people spending 3-9 thousand dollars on puppies would be in a position to afford special diets, but my experience says otherwise. It's about to get a lot worse.
We're lucky, in that we're one of the few brands who utilizes mostly domestically sourced ingredients. I would expect pet food to jump generally, which doesn't bode well for the increased pressure shelters and rescues are already facing.
My remembrance fo colombian coffee is that it was stupidly good and stupidly cheap to buy freaking everywhere inside the country.. I may be wrong though
I do think like 1 million americans sending letters to the white house telling them to fuck off is a funny thing to do. How many letters can be opened by 1 person a day?
I'd bet they exempt it. The corporate grinder doesn't really work without stimulants for the workers to purchase so they can work (and consume) more and sleep less.
Chicory makes my teeth hurt, and it tastes like ass. Just seeing the word makes me want to explode vomit out of my eye sockets. It's horrible what the fuck is wrong with you people
But (assuming a tarrif is something that can even pass) I imagine you're going to see a swiss cheese of exemptions for favored countries. And these countries will become a back door for imports.
Expect all of your coffee to be mysteriously harvested from Canada.
No don't. Last mandate, Trump out tarrifs on Canadian steel, labeled it a strategic risk. Read somewhere that it boosted Russian owned us steel mills somehow. Canada is not getting any favors from that guy.
.... Not that slave plantations anywhere makes it better, but the fact that it's foreign will mean that not only is the labor mainly performed by slaves, but we're also paying a premium because it's imported goods. Double jeopardy.
Lived in Hawaii most of my life: the big name coffees from here are terrible and only have that insane price because it's from Hawaii. Though there are some small local roasters here
Kauai Coffee is a relatively large operation that exports to the continental US and is more like $9 retail (and perpetually on sale for $7.50 or so) for a 10oz bag in the grocery store.
It's not cheap coffee, but it's certainly not top of the line priced coffee.
They do make some coffees that are more than $25/lb, but not the "regular* stuff people would buy in a store.
Of course I agree that their price will go up with the market with tariffs introduced, and that in general the tariffs are a terrible, terrible idea.
Unfortunately the Jones Act means shipping from Hawaii to the continental US requires the use of a shipping vessel constructed in the US, flying the US flag, and entirely crewed by US citizens which makes the shipping costs expensive as fuck.
No tariffs have been set but we're going to just assume they'll be put on items we can't even make. 100% tariffs on everything, trade isn't something you strategically do.
The incumbent has claimed repeatedly that there will be 10% tariff on all foreign goods. We can certainly bury our heads in the sand and pretend it's not happening, but that doesn't really do us much good.
Either he lies all the time or he tells the truth, can't have both. I'd love to try elimination of the income tax in exchange for tariffs but there's no way it's going to happen despite whatever campaign promises were made.
That’s the problem. Trump is a complete fucking idiot, so just because something is a terrible strategy doesn’t mean he won’t do it. Look what happened last time with the tariffs on Chinese goods and the small trade war he sparked that screwed over soy exports. Did Trump learn anything from that? Or his voters? Evidently not.
As a non-drinker of coffee, I am fully onboard with raising the price of coffee. Everyone is far too addicted to it and drink excessively to an unhealthy amount. Less coffee would be better for general health. Same for chocolate, as I saw someone else mention.
Too bad Trump doesn't care about that and doesn't actually have any plan in mind for this kind of economic policy for the welfare of the people.
the rest of your opinion is moot. you have no say in this because you don't understand the concepts behind coffee.
I had to stop drinking coffee for health reasons. it was fucking awful. drank a cup a day for decades. I couldn't function properly even six months later.
eventually I started drinking decaf, it helped.
you know why? the routine. the caffeine content is abysmally low but it comforts me first thing in the morning. It's probably the same for many coffee drinkers.
so really, do you want to inhabit a world where at least HALF of the people you know start their day out on the wrong side?
I'm sure the fuckface is going to only tariff countries and products he doesn't like, that saidF we have no idea if Mr. KFC drinks coffee or andrenochrome (joke) my guess is he hates mexico so coffee is getting taxed and things like monster and coke are gonna be the only caffeine available. Start growing coffee folks.
I have a gut feeling that his talk of tariffs is a bluff. Even if it's not my gut still tells me there's going to be exceptions for certain things that are big money makers for Trump and his allies. Trump's administration is not going to tax themselves unless they can provide a loophole to get themselves out of it. Ultimately it's the consumer who pays for tariffs, but they're entire purpose is to slow down trade and if that costs Trump and his allies too much of their wealth it won't happen.
Trump is as predictable as he is unpredictable because he doesn't stay consistent. He changes what he says and does to be perceived as best he can in that moment. Which makes understanding his actions a little easier, his past actions are irrelevant to his future decisions, it's just about what's in his head in the moment. Which is just a lot of words to say that Trump, his administration, and his allies are just chaos, and you never really know what chaos will bring except a change in the status quo. It's not looking optimistic though.