I am not convinced any significant number of people voted for Trump because they supported Palestine. Feels like a massive straw man meant to stoke divisions in the left.
No, they didn't, but I think a lot of people didn't vote for Harris who otherwise would have
I mean out of the candidates she was less evil, but vote for the evil? She didn't even promise to solve any of the long standing problems voters face and vouched to support new trending problems.
I'm not an American, but when the whole point of one(of two for some reason, and that won't change for some reason) political party is that they will fuck you in the next 4 years, and the whole point of the other(again for some reason there aren't any good people going into the government for years) is to fuck you harder but they also will fuck other chilling people who may understand now the real problems or(probably in the dreams) actually break the system(via either revolt or civil push against the first party), why would you vote for the first?
They didn't vote for Trump - they misunderstood the system that was in place.
Republican citizen groups have been going over the rolls in key states and removing by challenge registered Democrats who had any small errors on their registration sowing confusion and making otherwise eligible people ineligible.
Republican resources were used to amplify third party candidates who never had a hope of success due to the nature of construction of the system to create spoiler effects. If you thought Jill Stein was a real electable option you can look back at prior elections.
The concept of moral abstention from this election removed people who otherwise would have voted Democrat as the lesser of two possible evils from the system.
Basically since First past the post is a winner take all system Even if 70 percent of the public hates the Republican platform all they have to do is win a majority voting share, that doesn't mean they have to win your vote. They just have to mean that they have to remove your vote from supporting their main competition. They can do that via sowing apathy or divison or by changing the structure of the voting process through gerrymandering and other tactics that any dedicated volunteer can do if they are willing to slog under the assumption that what they are doing is ethically sound "payback". The fact is that these voting systems do not support the will of a majority and both established parties have benefited from that historically... But Republicans stopped playing by the rules awhile ago and they are marketing masters.
Since Republicans have basically outlined their goals to destroy the checks and balances of the system of government basically all they needed was to keep up the ruse that the system somehow rewards people who act outside of the two party choice the system was designed to deliver. Democrats, hoping to play the long game couldn't out the system they have benefitted from as being a rigged game if they wanted it to continue ... So anything but a vote for a Democratic candidate was basically automatically an increase in share to the Republicans by virtue of subtraction hence why a lot of us are unhappy...particularly those of us who tried to explain this shit beforehand and were told we were scum for supporting genocidal regimes. I don't like Democrats but they at least support the Laissez-faire systems that allow leftists to utilize their power as private citizens to support foreign intervention. I don't give a snowball's chance in hell that the support people have managed to give Palestinian interests thusfar will be able to continue at all under the Republicans.
3rd party didn't amount to shit. It's the lack of a campaign that has any messages other than "vote us or you'll get Hitler" and "we're Republican Lite, the reasonable racist". It's the chasing of a handful of Republican voters which didn't amount to shit instead of coming up with popular progressive points that are simple and effective.
50k for a home loan if you've been a good boy is weak. Pro military shit is exhausting. Doing nothing on Gaza was unpopular, but hey AIPAC loves it. Saying you won't do anything different from Biden was sweet and touching for Old Joe, but a horrible idea to win an election where he's been unpopular.
If you are concerned with 3rd party voters, then you should be working on replacing First-past-the-post voting where you live. People should have their vote counted even if their preference didn't win. Everyone should be represented by their choices in the voting booth. People shouldn't have to strategicly vote.
You clearly understand the flaws of the voting system, time to put it to good use.
I hope you swing by my ask lemmy post to discuss your recent commitment to passing electoral reform in your state.
I agree. I also think the problem was never they wouldn't vote for Harris. The problem was Harris needed turn out and if all the messaging around her is constantly negative people will not turn out.
I have the feeling that since the vote is over, a lot fewer people are here to defend their "ron't vote for harris because palestine" stance. Like something was switched off...
I notice that some of them have pivoted to “this was completely the fault of the Democrats, the voters are blameless” messaging, which this would fall under.
Messages of urgent concern about what we need to do for the Palestinians have completely evaporated though, yes. It turns out that it began and ended with not voting for the Democrats, and now there’s nothing particular they want to say about Palestine. Good thing that was all we needed to do, huh? We really squeaked one out there, I guess, with our victory.
I remember in the weeks following the announcement that Biden would step down and endorse Harris people dug into her voting record and revealed that she was one of the furthest left-leaning members of the Senate, up there with Sanders and Warren.
Now that she's lost the election all of a sudden so-called "progressives" are claiming she lost because she was basically a Republican.
The GOP's strategy was clearly to promote voter apathy and drive down turnout for people more likely to vote Harris, and it worked. Trump finally won the popular vote- and he did so with about 6 million fewer votes than what Biden got in 2020.
Far too many progressive, and maybe even moderate Dems and independents, really believed all the nonsense. "Both sides are the same", "you're vote doesn't matter", "there's no way Trump can win", "Bidenomics is totally what caused the global inflation and we are just going to ignore that post-pandemic inflation in the US was the lowest of any developed economy", "she's a cop", etc. Heck, maybe there is even some misogynist or racism on the left that may have hurt Harris. And now instead of just trying to dig out way out of decades of neoliberalism we're just escalating to fascism.
I blame everyone. The GOP and Trump of course. The billionaires (the loud ones like Musk and Bezos, but also the quieter ones like Thiel and the Walton family). Russia of course. The spineless politicians and government officials who refused to put Trump behind bars. The DNC for the shenanigans they've been pulling with primaries for the past several elections and for planning to run a walking corpse in 2024 instead of setting up a real successor to Biden. All of the people who voted for Trump and the other Republicans. All of the left-leaning folk who didn't turn out for Harris. The decades of the GOP undermining democracy (really starting with pardoning Nixon, the whole Regan administration, the hanging chads in 2000, Mitch McConnell taking over the courts, etc).
The only comfort I have is that I know I did my part and voted.
It was never about palestine in the sense there was absolutely nothing the biden administration could have done that they would consider good enough. Like so often they compare actions not with historical norms and if its an improvement but by a fantasy ideal thats just not going to happen. End result is trump and historical norms moving right.
Wasn't it something like 11% of Democratic primary voters that checked the box for "uncommitted" to signify that they weren't willing to vote for genocide? (Might have been 11% in one state, I'm not sure, but the 'uncommiteds' were a big enough number for MSM reporting.)
Seems to me like Dems had plenty of time and motivation to change their political stance on the issue.
I'm still here. Harris fucked up on Palestine. Biden fucked up on Palestine. It just doesn't need to be repeated on and on and on again - there is no new information, only people who think "vote for a candidate that supports genocide" is the correct thing to do. And that "Trump worse" is somehow a gotcha, when there isn't any difference - the genocide has been happening and has been killing Palestinians for a year when democrats were in charge.
What short memories people have. It's been decades. Since Clinton and before. It spiked in the last year. And will spike even harder now that so many actively voted for fascism like in 1980. Or railed against the achievable (you) in pursuit of unobtainable perfection. Only to predictably, as it always has been. Achieve the worst possible outcome. But denying self responsibility. That part is always present too. Otherwise people would have to learn.
There are still a couple running around, mostly with day old accounts. They claim they're being banned for holding that stance but from what I've seen they're getting banned for being inflammatory dickholes.
I'm getting the same shit I did after the Biden win in 2020. With all the astroturfers gone Dems are allowed to control the narrative again and they are full force defending the DNC. This is how it will be for the next 4 years. Until the astroturf accounts have their next assignment.
we are simultaneously a small amd pathetic minority, but also able to swing a major election on a major country. just pick one already.
I mean, honestly, I don't think people protesting Democrats because of the genocide were what caused Dems to lose. I honestly believe it was because the Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires. That being said, anyone who voted for trump thinking he'd be better is an absolute fool.
Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires.
Agreed. It's why the number of people who just didn't vote dwarfs the number of people who switched parties.
i don't think leftists voted for trump though.
It may have been a factor in Michigan. Their are about 300 Arab and Muslim Americans in Michigan, an estimated 200K of which are registered to vote, and Uncommitted vote had about 100K votes in the primary, which is less than Trump's margin of victory. There's going to be a lot of nuance examining how the anti-Genocide voters might have affected the electoral map, and I'm not sure we'll ever get a straight answer.
It doesn't matter to people who share these memes, though. They don't like looking at the numbers. In their head, they have an image of a young, entitled white kid with a Genocide Joe sign who just wouldn't listen to reason. An analysis would probably show that person is more likely to be Arab or Muslim with close ties to the Palestinian community, and that knowledge would make them uncomfortable.
it's almost like every vote matters.
*~only applies to swing states~
5 million is a small minority in a country of 300 million.
5 million votes means a lot when it's a close election.
Sounds like the Dems should have pandered better to them then. They had a billion dollars to find out what marginal vote block would give them the edge.
Even if Dems won Michigan, they still lost Georgia and Pennsylvania. 5 million votes is a lot, but where those votes come from matter in our system
Progressives are 8% of the voting population. So they are more like 27 million voters.
it wasnt close though.
None of them voted for Trump. You can look at the voting numbers. Trump's numbers are pretty much in line with what he got in 2020. He didn't gain votes she lost them. People stayed home.
Staying home this election was a vote for Trump. Hope they like it.
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can't just rely on the other side being worse. If you don't sell yourself to your voters if you don't give them a reason to vote for you then you're going to keep losing. They act entitled to everyone's votes. Entitlement is a big problem when it comes to Democrats. People didn't respond to them saying it was Hillary's turn. People didn't seem to respond to them saying it was Harris's turn. Democrats don't seem to like democracy. They claim to, but when it comes time to participating democracy they're not big fans.
Drag has not confirmed this rumour, but has heard that Trump got less votes in solid states and more votes in swing states. Apparently it was a lower turnout election in all categories except for Trump voters in swing states.
Why would people vote for Republican Lite, if there's the real deal? At least now we know chasing these Republican votes was foolish and that we should campaign on universal leftist points. Right? Right???
No, it's the voters who are wrong. FPTP requires us to vote for people in favor of FPTP.
I WAS going to do SO MUCH organizing this time... if Harris had bought us time. But alas, all strikes will go to Trump's desk now so why even bother. /s
It's nice to see people discussing the voting system. Nows the time to talk about opening up the electoral system to 3rd parties right for sure.
If you get the chance, swing by my ask lemmy post to discuss how you and the people of your state can pressure your leaders into implementing electoral reform.
FPTP requires us to vote for people in favor of FPTP.
Even the referendum efforts slammed into a brick wall this year
RCV failed in Missouri, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Idaho, and (likely) in Alaska. People don't like it as a system.
I don't think most people who really cared about Palestine voted Trump, and I also don't think they were anywhere close to deciding the election anyway.
What's the point of this smugposting exactly?
Manufacturing concensus.
They get to feel smugly righteous from it, that's all.
Projection much?
I'm just gonna keep hammering this in for a while. 81 million Democrats voted in 2020, but only 71 million this year. Trump won by 3.5 million. But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren't "complicit in genocide", right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
The Dems could have forced a ceasefire. The Muslim contingent warned them months ago and polling very clear showed that a ceasefire would have likely changed the result in several critical swing states.
But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren’t “complicit in genocide”, right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
How are you sure that all the missing votes are caused by Pro-Palestinian purity non-voters?
It hurts too much for them to consider they’re responsible. It’s too close to self awareness.
Nowhere near all of them have to be. Trump only won by 3.5 million. It's very difficult to believe that anywhere near a majority of the 10 million Dems who decided not to show up would have voted for him.
They aren't. But if one of them is, then that one person helped caused this. If ten thousand of them are, then those ten thousand people helped cause this.
This is not about finding the one person or group who bears sole responsibility and pointing the finger at them to excuse everyone else. This is about what each person has within their control, and whether they did the right thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKBJoj4XyFc
I linked this higher in this thread, but I need everyone to watch Jon Stewart's post-mortem on Harris' campaign. Like y'all are blaming EVERYTHING on pro-Palestinians, while not even acknowledging the republican-lite ads and interviews the Democrats ran coinciding with a bunch of pro-corporate consultants that joined her campaign in September. Or the fact that a segment of the population doesn't like Trump, but is also racist/sexist enough to not want a black woman as president either.
Lemmy thinks they're smarter than the MAGA crowd, but fall for neoliberal corporate sponsored propaganda instead. First it was hispanic men, then it was Gen Z, now it's Palestine supporters. Meanwhile 57% of white people as a demographic voted for Trump, and MSNBC nor Fox News has nothing to say about that.
I think people on this site put way too much weight on the importance of Gaza for the american voter.
The Harris campaign made plenty of other unforced errors as well. Campaigning with Liz Cheney was certainly a choice.
I'm waiting for something from Sam Harris that doesn't devolve into a rant your problematic uncle would give. I had to give up at the cut and paste "Muslims are a big problem" part that he's been parroting since 9/11.
The problem is this basically argues the Democratic party cannot have any diversity of opinions lest the entire party suffer. But Republicans can have fringe members who advocate positions almost all Americans find abhorrent and win across the board.
Also, the trans portion reads like a queerphobic mad libs.
Identity politics is over. No one wants it. Latinos and blacks don't even want it, as witnessed by the fact that they moved to Trump in record numbers
He’s sooooo close and yet missed it by a mile. How are our political commentators/class this inept? It’s. The. Economy. Stupid. Identity politics are an issue to those voter blocs - BUT IT IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE VOTERS CARE ABOUT.
You can’t go up the pyramid towards (identity) actualization without having a firm base - of economic and physical safety. A Latino/black/gay/etc person trying to put food on their family’s table and struggling to make ends meet, is going to view your party as deeply unserious if the only thing you’re offering them is representation and token* allyship. Those things are important, but not the start and end of your platform when reaching out to those voters.
Oh get off your high horse. Voters don't owe the Dems allegiance. The Dems need to win voters. They blew a billion dollars on bullshit instead of representing their electoral constituency. If you want to blame some voters blame those that voted fascist.
I’m just gonna keep hammering this in for a while
..Which only reinforces the story that centrists stand for nothing and cant be trusted to lead a party-- especially a "big tent" coalition.
How does 10 million people not showing up to vote reinforce the story that centrists stand for nothing? I wouldn't call people centrist for not showing up on the excuse of "not being complicit in genocide". I would call them single-issue fools.
Democrats had 4 years to pass electoral reform and call in reinforcements to fight the republicans. They could have done away with FPTP voting in the states they controlled but instead sat on their hands. They didn't do everything in their power to stop the Republicans. Democrats can no longer be trusted to go it alone.
"My purity is a precious delicate flower, I'm not going to soil it by voting for Democrats. Palestinians can take comfort in that!"
"Why can't my politicians mesmerize me every day? I don't want no competent government nerds in Washington, I need to be mesmerized every day to muster up the precious energy to go and vote!"
I will never, EVER overestimate or respect the younger generations, who can vote and won't. They have now shown themselves to be as ignorant stupid and heartless and fickle and impatient and lazy as medieval peasants.
They are just as fucked up as their baby boomer parents or grandparents who gave Reagan and his cadre of assholes the keys to the kingdom.
You just can't fathom that this is the Democrats fault, eh? It was their Republican Lite campaign, so it's their fault. Not young people, not Latinos, not muslims. Leftists couldn't say shit about how this wouldn't workall year, because that would only help Trump. Now they're at fault. Maybe you can think about a course change for once instead of blaming anybody but the party elites that are only invested in donor interests.
I will never, EVER overestimate or respect the younger generations, who can vote and won’t.
Did you even notice that Harris lost amongst every single demographic except college educated whites? She got slaughtered amongst the native American vote even more than the youth vote. So how about you be consistent and talk down to the native American voters. Go ahead.
I don't really buy that the "leftists sank kamala" narrative is accurate. There's just two Americas and one is bigger than the other.
I feel like the leftists not voting for Kamala would be more likely to sit home and not vote at all. Which would line up pretty well with the shitty leftist turnout.
But I thought the left "never votes". If leftists never vote then those 20 million who didn't vote were blue conservatives.
It's not. The Harris campaign made the decision to not break from Biden on Israel, at the cost of at least a +6 points gain. That's the fault of the campaign's calculations to ignore those voters, take them for granted, and instead run to the right with Liz Cheney and having the most lethal Military. That single policy change would have secured her the swing states needed to win the election.
I voted for Harris and told others to do the same. It's still on the campaign to earn votes to win. Blaming voters is just sowing division when we need unity and solidarity to fight against Fascism.
Quote
Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
This sums it up for me in 5 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0eq7VNCcYY
I'm sure some of these strawman exist in a field somewhere keeping the crows away.
Democrats need to get rid of First Past The Post voting in the blue states they control. Time to admit they need help and shouldn't be going alone against the republicans
More democracy. More chances to defeat the republicans. More people engaged and involved in the political process.
More people voting = more votes for democrats. More chances of republicans electing a more moderate candidate.Electoral reform is an absolute win for the people of this country. Except for the legacy poltical parties. They will unfortunately have to compete for your vote. If they are unable to stay relevant, that's on them for becoming weak and frail using FPTP as a crutch.
Why would the democratic party want democracy? The people in positions of power in the party got a lot of great fundraising this cycle, and they'll be able to use the threat of this incoming disaster to raise even more!
Sadly people voted against Ranked-Choice Voting in multiple states this year also, so good luck making any progress with regards to that...
Getting rid of FPTP in only blue states will make it more likely for the Republicans to win overall, as they will take all of the FPTP red state and some of the now proportional blue states
I mean in all fairness we did tell them that exactly this would happen. It's their open damn fault they, and the rest of us, now have to try and survive in the still-rotting corpse of democracy.
Edit, add: Their self centered, short-sighted voting choice has screwed over everybody else along with them. I'm not going to feel particularly bad about the hardships they've invited on themselves, whether through stupidity, logical fallacy, ignorance, emotional thinking, or (in the case of actual T supporters) actually believing blatantly stupid bullshit.
Hell, the only thing Harris voters have left is the bitter pleasure of watching the Trump voters and non-voters suffer with us. I will not extend an ounce of anything but schadenfreude their way for any bit of pain they feel as a consequence of their own actions.
Twenty million people includes a majority of democrats. You did this to yourselves, and you did it to everyone else too. You’re scum, you’ve probably destroyed democracy, and when the republicans start their pogroms, I’m not going to shed tears for liberals. You got us into this mess, so you can do the dying.
I’m not going to feel particularly bad about the hardships they’ve invited on themselves
It is not like you cared about the genocide when Biden was president. At least now the decorum is gone.
Except that I did care. Hi ahead and look through my post history. Nice try though.
ignores core voter issues
spends entire campaign talking about how opponent is worse
Tells entire uncommitted voter base to fuck off
"Why did the voters do this to us? Those must be 10 million russian/maga/chinese shills in disguise."
Clearly it's the voters who are wrong.
In the context of people that claimed to care about the genocide, yep - the voters were undeniably wrong. That doesn't make the Democrats any more right.
https://youtu.be/wCl33v5969M?si=GKzEjX4q2RwrINj9
A great video talking about that thought
I would tell the entire "uncommitted" voter base to fuck off. Here, I'll do it again.... "fffffuck off".
The main things these clowns are uncommitted to are democracy, rule of law, secular society, the constitution, justice, etc.
And now, unsurprisingly, they have helped enable a fascist authoritarian takeover of the United States by taking our democracy hostage in the name of some stupid ~1500 year old holy war and a shitty piece of land governed and funded by the worst possible people. Is that good politics? Is that supposed to win people over?
So, in return, I'm now "uncommitted" to giving half a shit what happens to them, here or abroad. The people who didn't vote to stop Trump are to blame for what happens next.
"I only care what happens to me in my country and give no shits about what happens to the rest of humanity that is brought about by what my country does. They can kill all those people so long as I have the freedoms those people are fighting for. Oh and I hope I can buy eggs for not an expensive price while my country is intrinsic in starving another population for no good reason"
You do not need to say that. They already in fact fucked off because the DNC told them to. And did not vote for Harris.
I hope you are very happy. The DNC threw away those free votes.
https://youtu.be/wCl33v5969M?si=GKzEjX4q2RwrINj9
Here's a 33 minute video explaining the tactics the right uses and the failures the Dems have in dealing with them. Please watch it. It is very interesting to learn about and too complicated to be summed up in a Lemmy comment.
A very tiny majority of people think of Gaza in the voting booth.
A solid chunk of gen z sat out for this reason bc dumbass shit they saw on tiktok
A very tiny majority
ok.
Which part is the humor part?
It would probably be funny if it wasn't true and a fucking tragedy.
I'm so goddamned irrationally mad at everything.
Rationally. You're rationally mad at everything.
Question. Would Harris have done better if she had a more tough stance on Isreal? Like what votes would she have lost if she committed to ending the genicide? The Arab and Muslim coalitions at the DNC told them that the Muslim and Arab vote was at risk if the Biden administration didn't change course and that Harris would lose their support if she didn't come out with a concrete plan to end the genicide...
In my opinion it was a huge mistake to back Isreal in this election. It's not like zionest or evangelical Christians were going to vote blue anyways. Why turn your back on millions of voters in swing states for genicide. Total head scratcher of a decision. Biden nor Harris said they'd work towards a two state solution or allow the UN to enforce and demiliterize both sides. The most support I heard from either was the day before the election. Harris said she'd seek a ceasefire but that was it.
Voting is inherently transactional. The Arab and Muslim Americans told the party what they needed to do to secure their support and the party said no.
I (hate and) understand that the reason is geopolitics and CENTCOM military power projection in the region, but it’s still bad politics to not commit to a pretense of trying.
Especially as NATO allies and economic partners are breaking from the US position on Palestine - and now the Saudis are talking no normalization with Israel without Palestinian statehood.
Last year the kingdom was in the process of negotiating a historic normalization agreement with Israel but recently said that was “off the table” without Palestinian statehood, a demand rejected by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
It's becoming more obvious as the data is on who didn't vote that the far left of the party gave up on the party. The campaign didn't push any left ideals and 10 million of their critical voters said theyve had enough with having two right wing parties. Trump only gained about 500k voters that left the dems for him. I'm guessing those are the racist and misogynist that the DNC is trying to pin the blame on. Keep running right politics and this will be the results going forward.
I (hate and) understand that the reason is geopolitics and CENTCOM military power projection in the region, but it’s still bad politics to not commit to a pretense of trying.
Essentially, you're saying that the genocide is settled and that american elections are exclusively performative (at the very least when it comes to international policy). You must then agree with me that the US is not a democracy, and that the US as we know it is a force for evil in the world?
Lol and where was it trump said he'd withhold weapons from Israel again? These voters are clearly choads.
Libs would rather cry for months about how they completely botched an election than do anything to stop a genocide.
Rashida Tlaib won 62-38 in a district that Harris lost 43-32-15 R/D/G. The idea that Libs can't win or that Libs won't stop genocide is flatly false. They exist. But they're also at the top of the AIPAC hit-list (Cori Bush and Jamal Bowmen were two other staunch anti-genocide candidates forced out during their primaries) so they have to fight for their lives in their own primaries rather than turning out the vote nationally for their candidates.
The dirty truth is that Dems can be gaslit and railroaded by a fascist white nationalist press as easily as any Republican. We saw a hard right tilt this election because we were flooded with hard right propaganda over the last two years.
Pinning the results of a tsunami of fascist media on individual voters is just blaming the victims. When your social media is owned and operated by apartheidists and gusanos why are you surprised to see voters adopt their views? Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Other than this meme ridiculously implying that if only the pro-Palestine vote would have gone to Harris instead of Trump, then Harris would have won (two ridiculous claims not backed by the reality of the data): Can we please stop with that notion, that the Democrats are trying to stop what's going on in Palestine and finally see it as the US foreign policy that it is? Who has the power in that relationship? Without the US, Israel has a fraction of its weapons, billions of dollars less for their own civil programs and no shielding from international law. Don't act like the Biden administration has been genuinely trying to stop a genocide, when they:
- are supplying weapons (Biden even circumventing congress in at least one case)
- continuing payments
- are spreading debunked Israeli propaganda even after they're debunked while ignoring or actively delegitimizing information to the contrary
- actively bomb the Huthi's who attack ships headed for Israel (also with weapons)
- vetoing or threatening to veto anything that furthers international law on that matter in the Security Council
- diplomatically and threatingly shielding Israeli threats to the ICC and ICJ
- actively delegitimize the ICJ and their decisions openly
- are threatening countries with sanctions if they don't adopt outrageous laws and standards redefining anti-semitism and cracking down
- are pressuring countries to tow the line with zionist support
- ... (list is not extensive)
This behavior isn't new. International law didn't matter, when the US offensively brought death and destruction to Afghanistan and Iraq and as a result again in Iraq and Syria. Or when they did the same with the EU in Lybia,. Or when they supplied Saudi Arabia with weapons and support for their genocide in Yemen, and are supplying Egypt with weapons and support for their water war in Sudan, which has seen atrocity after atrocity in its wake. This isn't even an extensive list of just this century.
They aren't trying to stop it. All the public lip-service is but theater as are the negotiations. Which should become clear at the latest, when Israel assassinates their negotiating partners and then the US claims, that there is no one from the other side joining the table...
I don't understand why anyone thought either candidate would handle it better than the other.
IMO, the Trump administration will likely make the problem worse faster than Harris would have, but regardless of who won the election, it would be impossible to prove whether my argument is true or not, so I digress.
I still have a hard time believing that anyone chose this hill to be the deciding factor and they went with Trump?
He's basically endorsing mass deportation which will likely result in the deaths of many migrants fleeing from dangerous situations. It's basically genocide on a massive scale. And that standpoint convinced anyone that he would do a better job in the Palestine conflict compared to Harris?
Now, I'm not saying Harris would have done much better, but "not much better" is still better... Not by much, but it's still better.
Oh well. Here we go again, the US is endorsing genocide. Whoopee.
Yeah neither do I. Especially with Trump's track record on the matter while he was in office. His proximity to Sheldon Adelson is believed to be the reason that led to Trump unilaterally declaring the Golan Heights (Syrian territory) to belong to Israel. Furthermore he moved the embassy to Jerusalem. And the criticism of the Abraham's Accords, that they were leaving out the Palestinians, was met with the answer of it being the point. When American journalists got murdered by Israel it got even less repercussions than Saudi Arabia for doing the same without consequence.
We just had an instance a few weeks ago, where I do believe there to be a material difference in handling between Biden/Harris and Trump. Remember when Israel attacked Iran? And did NOT attack Iran's nuclear and oil facilities? Speculation of course, but that has to be because of the limits set by the U.S. I'm pretty sure Trump sets the limit for such actions differently and we might be in a more open and direct world war like situation (including Russia and maybe even China). Another is his proximity to and donation ($100 million IIRC) from Miriam Adelson, which is rumored to be based on the wish to fully annex the West Bank. His announced appointments do make this seem likely and should once and for all dispel the myth of Israel's actions being defensive in nature for anyone still believing that.
edit: American journalists
She would have won MI easily. Possibly PA. Then WI would only have been necessary.
The far left vote would have handed her the Presidency. And you guys will eat a big plate of shit served by Trump himself for making that mistake.
Two take-aways from your post:
- I read a lot of "would" and "possibly" there. And in the end the implication is that she still wouldn't have won.
- Calling out a government for its role in the crime of crimes is now considered far left. Gotcha.
Until now I haven't seen a single thorough analysis, with absolute numbers especially compared to 2020. You know, so we can base our assumptions and opinions a bit more on reality. Most I'm seeing are opinions (including my own) and if I'm lucky, then an article highlighting a single isolated aspect, that might or might not be a relevant factor.
That is not a new pose for Republicans.
From 2011:
Newt Gingrich is standing by comments he made earlier this week when he called the Palestinians an "invented" people. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state."
Sure is going to be difficult to enact change when met with a regime that wants to regress. Hope that y'all who didn't vote are happy with the outcome cause I sure ain't.
Lol the downvotes? Let's see, the full context here...
“Basically, there really is no such thing as — I need to be careful about saying this, because people will really get upset — there’s really no such thing as a Palestinian,” Huckabee said at a 2008 campaign stop in Massachusetts while speaking to two Orthodox Jewish men. “There’s not.”
In response to a question from one of the men about the possibility of a Palestinian state existing outside of Israel, Huckabee said he believed this was the preferable option.
“You have Arabs and Persians,” Huckabee continued at the 2008 appearance. “And there’s such complexity in that. But there’s really no such thing [as a Palestinian state]. That’s been a political tool to try and force land away from Israel.”
Someone better pick up that phone, because I fucking called it.
You all really think there were a significant amount of people who voted trump because Biden and Kamala also support genocide?
That's wild...
What happened is some people couldn't compromise their own morals to vote for either, and Republicans don't have morals so that compromise was easy for them.
You can get mad at them all you want, but this isn't the first time this has happened, look at virtually any presidential election in modern history a republican won, and it's because the Dems went to far right and left their base behind.
We've been doing it for decades, and when a moderate wins it's by the skin of their teeth with large amounts of the people voting for them openly saying they won't make a good president but the only other option is a Republican.
We know the current strategy doesn't work.
We know that even when it does, things just temporarily stop getting worse, they don't get substantially better.
So can someone please explain to me the logic of doubling down on moving to the right every election?
Why do you think it will magically start working?
Why not do what we did in 08 and run a young charismatic candidate with a progressive campaign and just fucking dominate an election again leading to the House/Senate alomg with gains in red state governments?
How many times does neo liberalism have to result in fascism before the party stops shoving it down our throats?
When leftists get money, and stay leftists when they do.
Wasn't that the point? They knew both sides would be pro Israel and sent a message that without more Palestinian support, the Dems wouldn't just get their vote.
It worked, the Dems have been nothing but shocked and aghast at the outcome. Now the pro- Palestine base are hoping the Dems turn against Israel for the 2026 election to win back their vote.
...the Dems won't, by the way. They might pay more lip service to it, but they'll never be anti-Israel.
Ha ha ha ha! You think there's still going to be a Palestine in 2028! Huckster McJesusBitch is going to help Bibi complete the genocide.
Dems aren’t shocked. Dem voters were repeating at every opportunity that things would be worse under Trump.
I think we’re just suspect of people who say they’re pro Palestine and then act to worsen their situation.
You showed the Dems tho!
You will see what the point is when Israel permanently occupies the West Bank and Gaza and starts the real genocide.
Gaza has already been flattened and its people have been psychologically tortured into being unable to fight back.
This genocide is already well underway, not "about to start".
Imagine unironically making this meme. I envy the history students in 2138 who get to study this crap and scratch their heads
God, you liberals are disgusting scum. MLK was right about you, you are the greatest threat to justice.
I’m think you’re missing the point.
You face three choices:
- Most death and harm, 50% chance of happening
- Less death and harm, 50% chance of happening
- Principled choice for no death and harm, but that practically makes choice 1 more likely to happen because it has 0 chance of happening.
Choosing choice 3 is equivalent to choosing choice 1 because you’re contributing to choice 1 happening practically.
Choosing choice 3 is directly creating more death and harm than choosing choice 2 and in that way is morally worse.
Libs would rather make fun of their genocide that they're funding than resist it.
That's literally why nobody votes for y'all creeps.
I’m think you’re missing the point.
You face three choices:
- Most death and harm, 50% chance of happening
- Less death and harm, 50% chance of happening
- Principled choice for no death and harm, but that practically makes choice 1 more likely to happen because it has 0 chance of happening.
Choosing choice 3 is equivalent to choosing choice 1 because you’re contributing to choice 1 happening practically.
Choosing choice 3 is directly creating more death and harm than choosing choice 2 and in that way is morally worse.
Why should we accept genocide as normal? I don’t get it? Is it because it is happening to Arabs?
At least now we know many Democratic voters are just as racist as Republican voters just tacit about it
I’m think you’re missing the point.
You face three choices:
- Most death and harm, 50% chance of happening
- Less death and harm, 50% chance of happening
- Principled choice for no death and harm, but that practically makes choice 1 more likely to happen because it has 0 chance of happening.
Choosing choice 3 is equivalent to choosing choice 1 because you’re contributing to choice 1 happening practically.
Choosing choice 3 is directly creating more death and harm than choosing choice 2 and in that way is morally worse.
Equating not voting for Harris with voting for Trump is ridiculous and propagandistic. It's straight up gaslighting.
Guess we know what you did
No, you don't.
Not voting for Harris is one vote because it takes one of her votes away. Voting for Trump out of spite is two votes (taking one away from her and giving one to him).
Yeah Bud! Keep bravely patting yourself on the back for defending a losing campaign holding a losing position that is pro-genocide. Just keep punching left, I'm sure the fascists will call you one of the good ones
Lay it off with blaming people who are mad at Democrats about Gaza for Trump. Honestly, it's tired, inaccurate, and wrong. Trump won the popular vote. The Dems ran a shitty campaign, they had no message, and failed to inspire 10 million of their previous voters.
20% of the population is functionally illiterate in any language, an no one could out simplify Trump's simplified language, 'I good, she bad'.
Any voter who is given the two options of Trump or Harris, and chooses to not vote for Harris deserves blame for that. It should not be a hard choice. It should not be a reality show competition for the most exciting campaign.
Trump has been president before. If someone votes for him now, having been alive and conscious during his previous term, then yes, they are to blame for that decision.
There are no more excuses
Why? That category of people objectively exists and that category of people objectively chose this and that category of people objectively made an illogical decision against their own interests. Nowhere in the meme is it saying "all voters are in this category", it's simply indicating this category of voter exists which is objectively true.
Why?
Because it absolves the Democratic Party of its responsibility. They said this election was about preserving democracy. Then they didn't do EVERYTHING THEY COULD to get every last person hyped to vote for them. Instead, they complacently chose to ignore the legitimate concerns of a whole number of constituencies. They offered nothing to counter Right Populism. No grand vision, nothing to inspire anyone. They even leashed Walz, for fuck's sake. They let Trump waltz around in Michigan pandering to muslims while either doing fuck all or kicking their own muslim democratic leaders out of their rallies. The. Democrats. Fucked. Up. Stop blaming the voters, blame the Democrats. Otherwise, if your country has fair elections in 4 years, you'll have the same fucking problem all over again.
With a more representative electoral system, these people you wish to suffer because you dislike them would be able to vote for a political party that best represents them while still counting their vote against the republicans.
Why are you okay with your fellow country men/women/and more being under represented by First-past-the-post voting?
Fuck around: do genocide, ignore your base who are apalled by genocide
Find out: lose election
If you want to keep losing, keep doing this same shit. Most liberals seem like they would rather lose than agree with online leftists.
We told you so.
Well yes. Everyone knew trump was going to be worse for the Palestinians. Except for the people who wanted you to hate the democrats more and not vote and wanted you to ignore that.
Indeed, it is-real.
I wish I could say I was surprised or upset. I'm just disappointed. Better luck next time, 'Murica.
Next time? Lol
I'm so tired. I'm just going to vote the same way Aaron Bushnell did.
This post doesnt belong in political humor.
Life is a tragic comedy and all that.
The they are both the same crowd.....
It's really sad. It's really sad that reality has no effect on the people.
I find it hard to believe people making those memes are dumb enough to believe the underlying message. The pro-palestinian activist crowd was way too small to change anything in this massive loss, and I'd wager more of them percentage wise went and voted for Harris after all, than registered Dems did. Those people are politicaly concious enough to care about foreign politics, something vast majority of the voter base doesn't care in the slightest. I've seen you fuckers shadow boxing with some theoretical far left cabal, both apparently major in terms of being blamed for diverting voters and insignificant in terms of being worth listening to according to your propaganda, and I've barely ever seen anyone from the left saying that they wont vote for Harris. You've spammed those memes about not voting for Harris being a vote for Trump and pointed fingers at abstract pro-palestinian crowd, despite knowing fully well those people were going - and did, by the way - to vote for Harris. Dems lost not because of the politicaly engaged people on the left, you morons. Dems lost because they completely failed to engage people that weren't interested in politics. They completely capitulated the border issue to the GOP, allowing to full blown fascist narrative to emerge - something that wouldn't have happend it they pushed back instead. They paraded the animated corpse of Biden for far too long, going they could get away with it somehow. Completely sanitized Harris and muzzled Walz after their initial pro-workers and anti-corporate messages. They tried to shame people into voting instead of engaging them, shitted on the open primary, silenced arab communities, and then got confused when people not caring about politics too much failed to show up.
You're trying to show how much smarter you are than the anti-genociders with those memes, but you're completely missing the mark. This outcome is exactly what those people warned you about. People are mostly disengaged from the politics, and when they vote, they vote based on vibes. The year long support for genocide, broadcasted on every station and in many speeches, is a fucking vibe killer for many voters. The Dems had atrocious vibes all the way back from the october 7. They should have never give a green light for killing the civilians, on either side. They fumbled and refused to acknowledge it.
But yeah, Gaza is a relatively minor issue to the voters, seeing as people aren't interested in foreign politics at all. The reason why Dems lost was a sum of many other fuck ups as well. They barely even talked about Biden being pro union and walking the picket line. They barely pushed against the inflation lies. They laser focused being anti-immigration and calling Trump (deserved, sure) names. They're 100% guilty of letting Trump rule now, seeing how bad Trump campaign was. And seeing how your current propaganda looks like, it seems like you're not going to learn any lessons from this loss, assuming you guys ever get to vote again.
Wow a giant wall of text filled with shitty excuses. Not sure what else I expected from the Pro Palestinian anti Harris crowd.
May Palestine receive the fruits of your labor.
Excuses? I'm not even from the USA. That's a critique. And you seem to miss the point of it entirely.
Aye, you're not wrong. The meme is still accurate though.
It's not, pro-palestine crowd in USA is relatively politicaly concious, so you would be hard pressed to find people from that group that didn't vote for Harris. Idea that people caring about Gaza in USA would be unaware that Trump is worse pick is flawed, as it would require both awareness about foreign affairs and USA capabilities in terms of negotiating the ceasefire, and also being completely unaware of Trump attitude towards Palestine and Israel. Also, anyone caring enough to protest most likely cares enough to vote, so those people weren't the issue.
Dems fucked up their campaign big time and now they're looking for scapegoats to blame, unable to admit to their many flaws that led to this result.
ITT: libs finally realize a genocide is going on and actually care about it now
HILARIOUS!
Doesn't matter. Sitting Democrats don't care about the Palestinians. We all saw the delays and empty promises to do anything at all. And the Democrats really didn't have much else of a platform to offer. That is why dem voters didn't show up.
We all saw the delays and empty promises to do anything at all.
They straight-up lied about the 30-day deadline for humanitarian aid. I mean we knew it was a lie when it was announced, but at this point I feel like they are openly insulting everyone who gives a shit about Palestinians.
There is a difference between doing nothing and making it worse
Sending unlimited weapons and spreading false Israeli propaganda is definitely making it worse.
Democrats surely aren't "doing nothing", American weapons provided by Democrats have killed tens of thousands of children in the past year.
agreed. sending weapons, running interference at the UN and at qatari peace negotiations, and not doing anything when aid workers, journalists, and american citizens are killed or abused by zionists is not "nothing", its taking the zionist terrorists side and getting blood on our collective hands, as well as destroying any dignity the western alliance has, and soiling the word "democracy". Its an absolutely monstrous pursuit thats far from neutral.
Love the font. Reminds me of Rexlia, but it's slightly different.
Why are Liberals are taking expedited genocide of Palestinas as consultation price?
There weren't enough third party votes to swing the election. Trump won the popular vote. Stop blaming leftist for the country moving right. It's stupid.
People posting the meme wish to say genocide is only alright if it is exported.
The real question is if both party wishes to have death at destruction at Palestine homes why would they not wish the same to its exporter?
There isn’t 20 million pro-Palestinian people in the US. You liberals don’t want to admit it, but it was YOU who stayed home on Election Day. You made all that fuss about us needing to elect your YASS QUEEN SLAY corporate-funded DEI “hashtag ally” plutocrat, then didn’t even have the decency to get off your fat fucking asses, and skip brunch and your wine break for one fucking day to actually do your civic duty and vote.
I was eagerly looking forward to people coming into the comments saying how all of us don’t understand, Kamala was an unprecedented villain because she was adjacent to a whole different person who was all squeamish about putting the brakes on the genocide he didn’t want, refusing to vote for her made PERFECT sense even now in the grisly light of hindsight, and installing someone instead who wants more genocide and a whole lot more is totally exactly what the Palestinians would have wanted.
Come on guys, there’s only one so far. Surely we can muster up more than that.
If that person is your boss and you're trying to win a popularity contest then meaningfully diverging from their messaging is a good thing. Instead she mirrored his messaging. She could have been speaking in good faith, but nobody believed her because of her boss' bad faith.
I’m never voting Democrat again. You had 13 months to stop the genocide but you didn’t, allowing it to be passed on to Trump.
Trump says the quiet part out loud. But we have Biden recorded privately saying he’d kill Arab women and children all the way back in 1982. His unconditional support of the genocide proves he hasn’t changed since.
We didn’t vote for Harris because we knew you weren’t going to pushback on the genocide with her as president just like you didn’t when Biden was president. Now you’re blaming us for Trump despite that all Arab and Muslim American voters still won’t give Harris the 10 million votes she needs to win the popular vote let alone the electoral college.
Edit 1:
I voted for Jill Stein. Voting for Trump sends the wrong message since he too is pro-genocide.
Edit 2:
If you opposed the genocide you really had no option but to vote for Jill Stein and/or Claudia De la Cruz. Voting Democratic sends the message that the genocide doesn’t affect how you vote and you don’t care if it continues. Voting Republican sends a similar message since they are openly pro-genocide and actually take the Bible’s apocalyptic ending literally. Staying at home doesn’t work either, because if you can’t be bothered to voice your opposition to genocide then future candidates won’t bother to listen.
From the first month it was clear to me that the genocide will continue no matter who wins. It was clear neither party nor core base of voters care about it. If neither party nor base sees us as humans worthy of empathy, you can’t act entitled to our human-animal votes. We already knew Republicans saw us as animals with no regard to our lives. But to find out that all along the Democrats saw us at best indoor pets and are more than happy to send us to a farm upstate.
Edit 3:
And no, I am not afraid nor care what comes next. I can’t imagine anything worse than genocide and I am not in any way better than a Gazan. If they can lose their livelihoods and lives abruptly and unfairly, I don’t see why I should be spared. I’d rather take the chance no matter how small and vote for ending the genocide rather than to just save myself/group.
In a political landscape where winner takes all, there will only ever be 2 optimal choices.
Saying you will never vote Democrat again will only ever boost their opponents.
In this case, the Republicans.
Want me to list all the genocide shit they have ever said?
You can’t scare me with what Republicans might do when Democrats, the lesser evil, are committing a genocide. Since we both agree both options lead to genocide I choose to vote for someone else no matter how unlikely they will win. After all, both major parties are pro-genocide.
Thank you.
I went in person to Mary Gay Scanlon as well as emailed her about it. Thank her.
Seriously though. The Arab, Muslim and anti-genocide voters are not why Harris got 10 million fewer votes. I don’t know why OP or liberals blame us.
Are you sure you're not just a Russian psyOp? Or a victim of one? You say "we" but you're just one person.
Your solution is to make things worse? What fucked logic is that...
Edit: oh you're a Saudi, inshallah bro
If I am a Russian psyop then I can’t vote for the Democrats, or at all.
Honestly, do you believe there’s a genocide happening and that the current administration is complicit, or not? I am having trouble making sense of your response either that you deny it or somehow believe that the Palestinians deserve it.
If you know how complicit the current administration is, the upcoming Republican one is just a change in rhetoric saying the quiet part loud. Why would I be the bad person here and not the Democrats? Why should genocide be accepted as normal or unavoidable?
Edit:
Saudi
You got me. That’s why I couldn’t vote for Harris. Somehow they still let me vote for Stein. Must be another illegal citizen voting.
Congratulations, you fell for ALL of the BS.
And now we all get to reap the rewards.
This right here is why democratic countries desperately need to reform their formal education systems to shift the focus on epistemics, logic and information literacy. We need to equip citizens with the skills neccessary to navigate an incredibly toxic and propaganda-filled info environment.
They knew that was going to happen. They care more about their own sense of purity than whether Palestinians live or die.
Democrats lost some voters because they couldn't stop sucking off fascists in israel and now they're smug because the other party who kicked their incompetent asses also suck off fascists in israel. Apparently we're supposed to laugh at anti-genocide protestors in this situation.
Nobody voted for trump because they support Palestine. You’re making shit up to get upset over that is totally divorced from reality.
The problem with this country is that everyone else doesn't vote the way I want them to!!
no, the problem with this country is that some people hate the rest so much they're willing to die in order to make someone, anyone, suffer.
