I am not saying we shouldn't vote for Biden, but acting like we shouldn't be protesting the genocide of Palestinians is bullshit. I know Trump would be worse, but it doesn't mean we should speak out against Biden sending weapons that directly aid in the death of children.
We can't just pretend he isn't complicit in war crimes just because the other option is worse. We should be able to speak out against the atrocities.
Then I think this isn't directed towards voters like you. It's directed toward those who say you shouldn't vote for Biden as a protest.
The comic is highly uncritical of any of the levers of power. In fact it entirely omits any imagery pertaining to politicians or legislators or any political party. So the only people it is directed at are those protesting the genocide in Gaza as though it came at the expense of other issues, while giving those in power who have actually ignored or even fought those issues a complete fucking pass.
Like it doesn't even mention Biden or any sort of strategy or demands the protestors might have, even. Just shames people for protesting a genocide.
At least Biden allows the protests to happen. Under Trump, the first protest would be the last as he would immediately mobilize the National Guard and authorize the use of lethal force to suppress it.
As opposed to the police currently beating the shit out of protestors. I understand it would be worse under trump, but that's a really low fucking bar. We should be asking for better, not settling for the regime which is only maiming protestors instead of killing them.
Get involved with your local Ranked Choice Voting group.
The one for California is https://www.calrcv.org/
I know this won't fix everything but I also think it's a good idea. First past the post contributes to problems we have now. Check it out people!
The one for Washington State is https://fairvotewa.org/
Minnesota's group is approaching this a smart way, from the local up. They're not spending much time in the high-profile positions; they're tackling local elections. Gets people used to the idea, and they stack higher and higher positions as they're going. It'll take time, but starting at the top and working down is a lot harder.
Is this how CA is approaching it?
Commenting in support!
Is there one for every state? Better question: is there a page that I can link to literally everyone that lists every such group by state?
Thank you for this!
I'll preface this by saying that near any voting system, ranked choice voting included, is better than FPTP. That being said, ranked choice voting does have some issues. Some that, arguably, can make it almost as bad as FPTP. To be more specific for this argument, I'll focus on the IRV type. The main negative aspects of this voting system, imo, are that it doesn't satisfy the monotonicity and Condorcet criterions. Regarding this topic, I highly recommend reading this article. It is very well written, and very informative.
I like rank choice voting, but why would someone put Biden as there 3rd or 4th choice when they're with holding their vote over moral objections?
Voting for Biden in any order would be the same as voting for Biden in a first past the post election.
Totally irrelevant for this presidential election. Also I'd argue for presidential elections the electoral college needs to go first. The increasing number of presidents being elected with a minority vote is seriously concerning.
How patronizing is this
patronizing is exactly the right word holy shit :(
i am not a single issue voter and i’m highly critical of those telling me to utterly ditch the blue vote. but i am very uncomfortable with this portrayal of the pro-Palestine movement and i hope you, the reader, are too
the artist of this should feel some level of shame i think
Dunno. How patronizing is it?
Single-issue voters are one of the biggest challenges to a functioning democracy. Planks and balance provide depth; a willingness to compromise and work to the greater good.
But that's gone now, isn't it. And when a Palestinian advocate candidate is running for president, who supports pro-choice, affordable housing, and every other liberal plank except they object to green-colored libraries, then fuck them because I have to have my green-painted libraries!
Personally I would guess that the >50% of eligible voters who don’t vote, largely due to systemic disenfranchisement, are a bigger issue.
Another systemic issue is FPTP.
I find any solution to “fix” democracy that attacks/criticizes the individual voter to be barely valid. The solution to a systemic problem is always going to be systemic in my experience.
*Disclaimer: Not well-researched in the field, simply applying my knowledge from other areas to this. I welcome corrections.
Single-issue voters are one of the biggest challenges to a functioning democracy.
You don't have a functional democracy. You never have.
No one I know who does serious work on Palestine is only working on that one issue, wasn't doing anything before and won't do anything after. Burnout is incredibly high among activist leaders right now. Cut us some slack please
I think there's a lot of anger that anything is being tried at all. The expectation and goal is that nothing be done, which those in your opposition cannot help but reveal every time with their incessant brow beating.
Just to remind everyone, the issue is that we're funding a genocide. FFS, I don't want Trump to beat Biden either, but how warped and hollow is your worldview that you can look at kids getting their skulls cracked open for protesting a genocide and think, "Wow, look at those entitled single-issue voters." Truly a deranged take.
I personally saw this comic as a criticism of people vowing to vote third party because they don't like how Gaza is being handled, damning all the issues including Gaza to a dark future.
Saying everyone who agrees with this comic loves genocide and munches popcorn while protestors are being beaten bloody is certainly a take.
Believe it or not, but fueling this "one or the other" rhetoric hurts Democrats most. Even if the 3rd party candidates aren't viable, the people that would support Jill Stein or Cornel West are far more likely to vote for liberal candidates down-ballot. Extensive studies on voting outcomes show that disincentivizing voting outside the 2 party system is far more likely to keep progressive voters home.
Well, first of all, that is abso-fucking-lutely not my take, thanks. Secondly, if it's just about third party voters, why is that young person sitting front of tent? Could have gotten the anti-Biden point across with a Genocide Joe shirt. Could have really driven the third-party thing home with a Jill Stien shirt. But no, the artist depicted a white kid in a Palestinian keffiyeh, holding a Palestinian protest sign, and placed them in front of a tent. The artist is clearly pointing at the campus protesters, who've been on the receiving end of an extraordinary amount of state-sponsored violence for their activism, and saying, "look how unreasonable these people are."
Saying everyone who agrees with this comic loves genocide and munches popcorn while protestors are being beaten bloody is certainly a take.
An objectively correct one, yes.
There's one simple thing Biden could do... A moral thing even.
People who make these typa posts are the same people who wouldn't show up to a protest for any of these things
yall are actually insane if you think protesting genocide is somehow mutually exclusive from other issues, or that pressuring Biden automatically means you're voting for Trump
Both this community and Politics have some of the dumbest party shill takes ever.
People just don't understand that political discussions are in nature pr work. You need a good pr strategy to succeed in what you want and impulsively selected actions might be bad for your pr work. And the truth is most people don't think about pr before posting about why XYZ is bad.
Literally the British government fucked themselves like that. They wanted to avoid responsibility and found someone to blame in their pr work. A few decades later and their country is leaving a huge market to avoid having to comply to the market's rules, while also kinda wanting to join the market for trading and having to comply again for economically reasons (and the threat of terrorism due to north Irland)... While being unable to make it happen without splitting up the country due to people rejecting that by eu bad. So the best they can do is trade deals with little to no impact on their trading. And while everything goes so well, parts of it are looking into leaving them. Politics are pr work. If you want to have an impact, then play in the big leagues, play like it.
Saw this posted elsewhere and found it poignant
“If Nixon wins again, we’re in real trouble.” He picked up his drink, then saw it was empty and put it down again. “That’s the real issue this time,” he said. “Beating Nixon. It’s hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years.”
I nodded. The argument was familiar. I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame but “regrettably necessary” holding actions? And how many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
– Hunter Thompson, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72
First Past the Post will always result in a lesser of two evils choice.
Uh... Nixon was terrible. He resigned in disgrace. Even Republicans shunned him after he left. It's hard to put into words how much Nixon disappeared from modern society.
Without a second Nixon term, Watergate is probably not as big of a deal. Then Fox News is never created. You can see where I'm going with this.
The point is, yes every election is important. Be grateful you can vote, and that your vote counts. It hasn't been the norm for most of human history.
Sure, but nobody was afraid of Nixon becoming a fascist dictator now were they
Lol, I mean I get why you feel this moment is unique, but i'm looking through NYT articles from 1972 and if you take out the dated references you could almost mistake them for articles written in 2024:
To the Editor: When a Democrat for Nixon says “I'll vote holding my nose, but McGovern is not a big enough man to be President,” or “I don't like him, but there is no viable alternative,” or an uncommitted Democrat says “McGovern doesn't turn me on,” such remarks are liberalese for “I'm doing alright the way things are, and can't take a risk of any change in the status quo.” - NYT Letter to the Editor 10/19/72
"Lawrence F. O'Brien, the na tional campaign chairman for the McGovern‐Shriver ticket, accused the Nixon Administra tion yesterday of sanctioning tactics of “political espionage” that bordered on those of “a fascist state.” - NYT O'Brien Charges 'Political Espionage'" - 10/14/72
"Deceit, deceit, everywhere deceit—but especially on the political and cultural left, says Arnold Beichman, and most out rageously in the writings of the youth lovers (Marcuse, Slater, Sontag, Roszak, Reich and the rest). They say “America is al ready a fascist country or is on the road to fascism,” that the country “is guilty of genocide,” that “the Bomber Left ... is a moral force” They claim the white “American worker ... is a retrograde, decadent, self ish creature: a honky,” that “our political system is an ut ter fraud, particularly the two‐ party system,” that “American values are wholly materialistic,” that “America is insane,” and that our primary need is for “a violent revolution.” " - NYT, "Nine Lies About America", 10/8/72
I'm having a great time reading through these actually, it's interesting reading the op-eds from back then.
the point the person above was making was that they're always sick of voting for the lesser of two evils and your response is 'but this one is really evil?'
Yeah. Save the "democracy" which puts the whole force of the law on you when you protest for Palestine or against Cop City.
Uh oh, looks like someone is sharing
communistunpatrioticterroristundemocratic speech. Undemocratic speech is any time you:- Oppose fascism
- Skip an ad
- Don't buy something
- Take the bill of rights seriously at face value
- Encourage someone else to do any of the above.
Please lie down on your stomach with your arms at your sides and someone will be along to pepper spray you and charge you with domestic terrorism shortly.
That's hilarious. You're looking at the situation ion Gaza and daring to compare what's going on in the USA with that?
I have no idea what you're accusing me of doing, so I'm gonna say: No, I'm not.
Wow, look at all those issues democrats won't actually do anything about, they'll just let republicans destroy those things so they can scream about them to get votes and continue to do nothing about them.
Oh, and democrats support genocide. No amount of whataboutism should disguise the fact that democrats are deep throating a genocidal apartheid ethnostate led by far-right war criminals.
Thank you for your well-researched and very-nuanced view, I hope you enjoy Donald “They’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.” Trump's next term, 2024-20??
How do you think we got trump in the first place? The awfulness of the republican party did not begin with him and will not end with him, but the whole time democrats have insisted that we need a republican party. It's a tag team play that ends in fascism regardless. If trump is beaten, the next bogeyman will be there for democrats to point at and claim "we just need to beat this one guy and then we'll work on issues you care about, we swear" yet again.
We won’t be able to see whether or not they’ll enjoy it because like in 2016, and again in 2020- they’re going to vanish once the election is over. Regardless of who wins.
They’ll move on to other issues that make them appear as if they care about shit. And it’ll just repeat every four years while none of them will do anything in between elections that will ever amount to any change.
They’re as status quo as it gets.
The division on the left over Palestine has got to be the dumbest fucking shit I've ever seen. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
I have probably one of the more controversial comments on this thread. I plan on voting for Biden, because harm reduction is the best I can realistically do in this federal election, and the other guy is very clearly worse. I encourage you to do the same just based on my own beliefs and opinions. I'm still openly critical of Biden because fuck sitting back and watching a genocide happen and saying "golly, at least he's not Trump". We can and should do better, and if team Biden doesn't like it, maybe they should stop supporting genocide.
Maybe I'm just not up to date on the memo, but where did the idea that criticism isn't allowed come from?
I can't think of any president that I haven't criticized. Obama pissed me off immediately forgetting about his promise to close Gitmo or stop warrantless surveillance.
I'm not seeing people saying not to criticize the administration.
What people are saying is holy fuck white supremacist Christian fascists are about to instill a monarch who will hurt many, many people if they can get away with it.
It's a pretty clear and understandable message, and its unprecedented nature over the last few centuries kind of does warrant the volume with which it is attempted to be conveyed to people who say things like "because I don't like what the administration is doing with issue x I might not vote or will vote 3rd party."
Not liking what the administration is saying and saying you don't like it is the very essence of the American experience. But throwing away your vote in this century's equivalent to the election in 1930s Germany is not just tone deaf but an active middle finger to every minority that's going to be persecuted under gold-plated Hitler, Palestinians included.
I think the issue is the people stating they won’t vote or the ones wanting to let Trump win to “just tear things down.” We don’t have near the numbers or popular will to tear things down and we didn’t have it last time Trump tore things apart. The damage he did is still being felt across the government and people just don’t understand how slowly change happens. It took the right 50 years and billions of dollars to get us here. It’s not going to change with one president or one political event.
I'm genuinely curious, would you vote for Hitler as a form of harm reduction? Obviously the genocide he did was bad, but say he was running against someone else who was also planning on committing a genocide.
The Nazis put money into infrastructure development, education (granted in this context it was also indoctrination, but there was genuine education being done too), expansion of welfare; better access to healthcare, public works programs, public health policies (though again, muddied with ideas about "racial purity").
Imagine he was running against another pro-genocide antisemite, but who was against all the welfare/public spending mentioned above, and instead wanted to deregulate the economy, causing even more material harm than the Nazis.
Would you be telling people to go out and vote for Hitler as a form of harm reduction? Is there literally no line a person/party can cross that makes them not worthy of a vote; no line that makes the system illegitimate and participation in it/implicit endorsement problematic?
The balkanization of the left has been a thing since before the Balkans themselves.
Just because someone protests an active genocide doesn't mean they cannot also be upset about what else is wrong in the world.
Divisive cartoons like this, horse race politics, and the straw man argument of the single issue voter are all more dangerous than the youth finding their voice in political discussion.
It's largely orchestrated. Fascists push it because it weakens the left. Leninists/Salinists/Maoists push it because they see it as accelerationist. Which to them is a good thing, because their ideology isn't an improvement over capitalism. They know they can only convince others to adopt it by making things worse, not better. Much the same as capitalism and mercantilism does/did.
Super well put.
The way I see it. Biden is really choosing to die on this hill. It is irresponsible for him to support Israel when the stakes are this high.
Why is he not taking this seriously?
Why is he not taking this seriously?
He is. Support for Israel is policy, not politics. It's not Biden supporting Israel... it's the entire US political establishment that does.
You might just as well ask Biden to stop the US from being imperialist - no member of the US political establishment would ever do that. Period.
This is why you see liberals everywhere heeding the clarion call to pre-emptively start looking for people to blame when Biden hands over to the GOP (the "bad cop") come November.
I'm sure if it wasn't Palestine they would have picked some other hill to die on
Seriously, Palestinian American here and I feel actually violated for them to be using my kin's corpses as fetish porn for their narrative.
I have family who are Nakba victims that I haven't been able to meet because they put everything into giving my grandfather the chance to escape, people who actually experienced the genocide first hand, and all I can see in these people wielding it as a cudgel to declare they won't vote and nobody else should either is the same white cynical "leftism" that made Nader and Stein become the perfect catastrophes for American democracy.
Here is the single Palestinian cause, Badna N3aesh! We want to live! We want to live, both in the homeland, and everywhere else we may go, and that means you have no right to use our dead to let the ones who would kill us here too into power.
Badna N3aesh!!!
Edited: Fat fingered my reply.
Damn we're just posting boomer comics now huh
I'm deeply uncomfortable with the amount of people calling those wholly opposed to complicity in genocide as "single issue voters". Sure, if genocide isn't enough of a concern for you to oppose candidates that are complicit, then I guess you can call it "single issue".
We're talking genocide here, so I'm going to compare this to the most known genocide on the planet. Imagine if we knew about and could see the Holocaust occurring as it happened when it started, and FDR was funding the Reich including circumventing congress. Would you expect people to still vote for FDR, or would you expect people to oppose his candidacy? This caliber of rhetoric as well as this post has turned this leftist away from my plan to vote for Biden. Nice work folks. I'll be voting for Cornel West and trying to keep the liberal trifecta in my state legislature this year.
The "if Trump wins" folks are angry at the implication that their vote is tacit support of genocide, but are fine with the implication that not voting for Biden is tacit support for Trump
If Trump wins, funding for Israel will increase, and even more Palestinians will die. So basically, you're valuing your purity over human lives. Which is quite fascist, if you think about it.
"Opposing genocide is fascist" is certainly a take.
No, it's fucking not. Cornel West opposes funding to Israel, supports a 2 state solution, and supports the same issues strawmanned by lady liberty. I value the end of a genocide as well as a socialist economy. If neither of the mainstream candidates will stop the genocide, I'm going to vote for the only candidate that wants to stop the genocide as well as handle the other issues I care about, in a way I'd align with. My barely tepid patience with Biden and supporters like you has run out.
And I'm deeply uncomfortable thinking that giving a chance to the candidate that thinks Hitler is a great guy AND the USA should do some of the same things as Nazi Germany while he'll ALSO keep funding Nazi Germany, but even harder, is sane - let alone even a viable argument for those already opposed to the current choice already funding genocide.
Even the EU is learning how stupid Americans are and are making plans to not rely on it at all + make entry harder (next year you won't be able to travel to just countries here for extended stay easily anymore by passport alone for example). And dumbasses like you are proving there's a severe lack of critical thinking.
I think it depends on how people/voters see the particular conflict. When Bush jr put a genocide on the Taliban, he had a lot of support. When Obama put one on ISIS, he had a lot of support. When Biden stopped US support for genocides in Yemen or Rwanda, voters didn't really seem to care one way or another.
Wtf, who is upvoting this, this is alarming
I strongly suspect that most of the people on the left are also carrying all the signs on the right
And that the person writing the cartoon is planning move on to targeting the next-least-acceptable sign from the pile on the right, as soon as the one on the left is dealt with. This thing of slicing off segments of dissenting opinion to shut them down one at a time, in separation from their natural cohort of supporting allies, by driving wedges in between them, is fairly normal "advanced fascism from people who know how to get it done on the ground" tactics.
I don't think it's trying to slice off segments of dissenting opinion so much as highlighting the all or nothing nature of single issue voters.
Yeah. I guess I should have paid more attention to the title -- applying it to a "single issue voter" (or, non-voter, I guess) who really is throwing all the stuff on the right in the garbage, in the (incorrect) belief that they're helping the Palestinians, when in reality they're just threatening to make things worse for literally everybody, makes sense.
I just don't think that's most of the people in the tents or carrying the signs. If they had constructed the cartoon to attack all the people on Lemmy who don't want to vote because Biden personally killed all those Gazans and loves that the war is happening, or whatever they are claiming is happening, then that makes sense. But attacking the protestors themselves seems wrong.
I agree, I am not the artist, but I posted this as a criticism of those who say they'll vote third party.
The "most" is not the subject. It's the few who are single topic voters.
Looks like there is a crystal clear direction Biden can take and win over a substantial amount of voters. I'm not sure blaming people protesting genocide for Biden's drop in approval ratings, rather than Biden himself for tanking them, will encourage anyone to vote for Biden.
It's not unreasonable to draw a hard line at genocide.
It is when you're not making any attempt at harm reduction.
It is to those who have willfully abdicated their democratic right to protest and participate.
"Say NO to passive acquiescence to genocide! Say YES to active support of genocide!"
Great. Thanks for the hard line.
You think giving billions in weapons and ammo to continue the genocide is passive?
If the issue of genocide isn't listened to what indication is there any of those other issues will be?
Something to think about--and what many of these college kids who are likely only able to vote for the first time are experiencing.
If genocide is the only thing you'll listen to then you'll be the last person anyone facing all the rest will consider an ally until their problems escalate to genocide.
I'm sorry, what? I run in anarchist circles. Most that I have met would rather see Cornel win. If Trump won, they're going to be the "armed antifa" showing up to protect drag story hours.
I admire third party voters in the US, trying to bring down the 2 party system.
The thing is that unlike previous elections, this one could actually break down democracy.
Trump is going even more insane than previous elections, or even during his time in office. Calling himself "dictator for a day". All so if he gets elected, he can just pardon himself and get rid of the huge amounts of criminal charges. He doesn't care who he has to step on to achieve this.
All to the delight of Putin of course, it is widely known how deep Trump is in his pocket. He backs Trump so Trump can get the US to retreat from NATO, and destabilise Europe and the US so he can war further in all the Slavic countries that he considers USSR territories without issue.
That is also why we encounter so many Russia bots and shills. To make it seem the "genocide joe" issue is much bigger than it actually is.
I'd love for Biden to change his stance on sending Israel weapons, but not if it means increasing the chance of WW3.
And don't kid yourself, WW3 will inch closer if Trump gets reelected.
I admire third party voters in the US, trying to bring down the 2 party system.
It is a pretty misinformed attempt, considering that voting for a third party will never bring down the US 2 party system. It will at best replace one of the 2 parties with another party. The 2 party system is baked into the US political system on account of its election laws, and it will take some major revisions of the US constitution to change that to something else.
That’s essentially what happened with the Whigs. The leadership decided that they weren’t going to decide one way or another on a strong stance for/against slavery, ignoring the pleading of their own constituents. So the anti slavery ex-Whigs made Lincoln’s Republican Party and the Whigs never recovered.
So not only is biden likely handing the election to trump, the moral outcry that is being ignored might kill the Democratic Party for good.
On point except not sure the Constitution has to change.
For example Alaska implemented ranked choice voting, and states have implemented proportional allotment.
The only way to bring down the two party system in the US is to eliminate first past the post voting.
Off course they are busy with such issue.
How much of an issue would it be if it was you running away with your family from place to another, starving and getting bombed, to realize the next morning, that you have lost your mom and have to burry your sister, your kids are under the rubble, one is limpless for life now, another is dead, another still missing.
How would you feel if the people selling and enabling your genocide, or the people who have the power to step in and help, are discussing school lunch and economy issues, while yours are non-existant. I bet you cannot afford to give half a fuck about the economy, or college tuition, or housing affordability, or nothing else.
War and genocide cannot simply be dissmissed as another issue. This issue is literally life and death, pain and torture, and every decision that causes it to happen is everything of someone's life.
Both parties support Israel. Voting will not prevent the genocide regardless of who you vote for or if you don't vote at all. But a whole host of other issues that affect peoples' lives WILL be affected by that choice. So rather than focus on what you have zero control over as far as voting goes, focus on what you do.
Yeah I'm sure Trump will fix it.
missed the ball completely
You SHOULD vote for Joe, but fucking hell this is HIS fault. Voters are a swirling mass of people. It might as well be fluid dynamics. Bad policies and apathy WILL affect support. It's going to. You can't stop it. You can't shame it back again either. You can't win back tent guy's vote by blaming him for Joe Biden's failures.
The most recent weapon shipment is actually on Congress, Joe Biden didn't want to send it and was forced by a congressional resolution led by Republicans because they know people won't look into it and the president will take the fall out.
I left some resources to back up these claims in a previous comment .
That sounds like a classic Republican thing to do and I don't doubt it. But it's a small detail. Biden's soft touch has allowed Netenyahu to commit war crimes without a second thought throughout this whole thing.
Why doesn't she have a sign that says "Stop genocide in Palestine"?
because the two are mutually exclusive and everyone in the pro-Palestine movement is going to boycott the vote, duh
/s
I don't get this Schrödingers democracy thing here. The American people should save democracy by voting for Biden to stop Trump. But they can't make demands against the pro-Israeli positions of Biden. You aren't even in the real election phase, the election is in six months, and people can't criticize or demand better action from their own elected president. Hell, I've seen these kinds of memes since the primaries, which are meaningless for Bidens candidacy except that you can send signals that you maybe have to change your course. But nothing has changed at all since then either, only empty words. How is this democratic then?
I'm not even saying that Biden has to do everything the most radical people on the pro-Palestine side demand. But Biden doesn't even try to find a compromise. He could maybe leverage the power that the American government has over Israel to stop the bombing of Gaza. If he feels brave he could even demand the stop on more settlements.
It's the Schrodingers democracy of the shrodingers "free" world we live in — Politics is pay to play, corporations are people and both can donate unlimited money, wealth equality is worse than the guilded age, but we totally have "democracy" bro. Also you should shut up and support a genocide because we're fighting to prevent the fascists from taking power, which will surely lead to genocide... Only worse!
This is the kind of discourse you get with a 2 party system ruled by a corporatocracy masquarading as a democracy — the propagandized neoliberal drones are most of the comments you read. Ultimately vote for Biden, because the alternative is literal Christian fascist dictatorship, but give Biden and neoliberals hell; make them believe they're gonna lose all the way to voting day.
give Biden and neoliberals hell; make them believe they're gonna lose all the way to voting day
I agree with this, but people really need to stop qualifying every critique with their intent to vote for him anyway. Biden has already been saying he doesn't believe his polling numbers are real (why liberals aren't panicking about that indifference is beyond me), we really can't be sending mixed signals here.
He risks losing if he doesn't change course, full stop. He needs to know that risk is real.
Counterpoint: Single issue voters got Roe overturned
All depends on what your goal is.
Write your congressman if they are one of the members that forced the weapon shipments to restart.
In this case Joe Biden did not want to restart shipments but was forced by a Congressional resolution.
Here is a Reuters article covering the resolution, here is the house press release, here is the Congressional voting record.
The fundamental goal of anybody supporting democracy has to be removing the influence of money from politics. It is at the core of every issue.
The path of getting there is not known, but anything accomplished without that goal in mind is of lesser importance.
Remove money from the political process and all ships will rise.
Voting or not voting without that concern in mind has potentially devastating consequences to your future.
“Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.” ― Lucy Parsons
I totally agree, how do you think we should vote this election cycle to bring that future about?
I think there's a non-zero probability that American democracy ends with Trump, and there's very little benefit gained by a 2nd Trump presidency either way.
Biden buys the youth more time to get organized and start restructuring the country. But the youth has to get their shit together, pick better candidates, and vote.
We are at the end of an era, and you can toss out much of the conventional thinking from the past 50 - 70 years. When the millennials and Gen Z finally come together in force they will shape the country how they see fit. The boomer/silent gen majority that we were stuck with for 50 years is gone - all the younger generations have to do is vote for their priorities.
This will happen in one of the next 3 major elections purely due to numbers.
Lastly, the youth needs to understand that voting is about aligning the trajectory of the leadership as closely with your values as possible. You are making decisions now that have long term effects on your quality of life.
34 Senate races in 2024. 20 are held by Democrats and 3 are Democratic-caucusing Independents. Eight of those 23 are fairly close--toss-ups even.
Every one of those Democratic senate candidates are going to have to be carrying Biden's water on this one.
Engage with politics at the Congressional and local level. The biggest reason Biden refuses to change his stance because Congress and a majority of his constituency still supports it.
So please continue to protest and engage your congressman and local officials. We can change this but we need action.
So like if you're a student you should engage with the University admin to let your stance known, potentially asking them to stop investing endowment money with weapons manufacturers and Israeli surveillance startups?
Zionists and warmongers sure don't want you doing that.
Write your congressman if they are one of the members that forced the weapon shipments to restart.
In this case Joe Biden did not want to restart shipments but was forced by a Congressional resolution.
Here is a Reuters article covering the resolution, here is the house press release, here is the Congressional voting record.
I guess Biden better... Earn more votes.
So you're saying voters have no power, only politicians. Cool.
If the other guy being a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism isn't enough for you to snap into line, you're a fascist trying to feel moral about being a fascist.
Trump is denying the existence of the 13th and 19th amendments now and you're actually still on about how politicians should have to "earn your vote?"
Tell me you're white without telling me you're white.
If the other guy being a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism isn’t enough for you to snap into line, you’re a fascist trying to feel moral about being a fascist.
No no, you don't get it, if we let fascism win this time, everything will be better NEXT time!
Okay making a top level comment after quite a bit of research.
The artist of this cartoon has literally never expressed criticism of the US’s participation in genocide nor apartheid—nor even of the involvement of the military-industrial complex—even once since October 7.
So if this post comes off as excessively patronizing to some, there may be a reason for that, as the tone here is not all that different from the rest of the guy’s work.
That does not mean that there is no valid concern from the artist here. Whatever your plans are for November, a Trump win is going to result in some non-zero excess harm against the vulnerable and the environment over what would be involved in a Biden win in the short run—that much most of us can agree on.
But the comic does this point in such a fucking tone deaf way? like hawt damn.
I personally interpered the comic as a criticism of people vowing to vote third party, not a criticism of people protesting Gaza as a whole. I hate what Isreal is doing in Gaza, but I'm not going to throw my vote away on a third parry this election when Trump would make everything including Gaza so much worse.
More of the artist's work concerning Gaza:
i hear you! but this one isn’t critical of US complicity either.
obviously i cannot know the artist’s intentions, but an analysis of their repertoire can give an indication as to why the “i’m busy” comic felt so condescending and bad faith
Can we stop being the repost home of r/politicalhumor shitty memes?
Yes this needs to be a space where only memes I think are good are posted
With how one-sided and not-thought-out-well this comic is, I can't help but come with this point:
Does the lady liberty side not not concerned about the genocide they are supporting? I mean, if you assume the protesters focused against the genocide their own government has a great part in as not caring about anything while they are protesting this one, the most extreme human suffering, issue with a lot of burning passion it deserves and not caring about other things, you have to look at the other side and see they have no cards against this genocide.
Are multi-issue voters okay with funding genocide as long as their own rights are not infringed upon?
Biden can stop the genocide but not only chooses not to at the risk of losing the election, but enables Israel to commit more violence and war crimes.
What do you think Joe Biden should do to "stop the genocide", and why do you think he has not taken those steps already?
Withhold military and financial aid and not veto a ceasefire or vote against Palestinian statehood. Israel is committing it with US weapons, money and political cover.
Maybe not explicitly call himself a Zionist or flood the IDF with money
No mention of HAMAS; just Biden and Israel.
Hamas are irrelevant to the conversation. Biden isn't sending them weapons or money, so he has no leverage over them, as opposed to Israel.
The issue with Palestine can be solved by Biden today if he wanted to. Call that UN ambassador with some different instructions. Throw out some sanctions conditional on getting aid through and a ceasefire done. The other issues in this comic require courts or congress, generally. Is genocide bad? Yeah. Should we stop it? Nah, not today. Voting for a guy who won't stop what's going on because he doesn't have a problem with it feels bad, no way around that.
Instead of a diplomatic avenue, you guys are going to help Trump get elected so he can speed up the process of the genocide of Palestinians, and then you are going to blame everybody but yourselves.
Don't worry, single issue voters are very rare. They're being loud right now on Lemmy, but I honestly don't see them anywhere else. I'm pretty sure at least a third are paid actors too, but I can't prove that.
I wish I could get paid to post, but unfortunately, I signed a noncompete agreement with George Soros for a role as a paid actor in a false flag mass shooting so now I'm not allowed to be a paid actor in any other conspiracy theories. I'm just opposing genocide pro bono to keep my posting skills sharp so that I can apply once my contract expires.
My biggest fear is that it could be a coping mechanism for us.
The right likes to use every opportunity against us, and while I've seen many instances of them manipuating "cancel culture" on the left, there's still a large number of people that are amnesiac about the Trump years, even if they're themselves being manipulated by the right to follow such things.
Funny, I feel the exact same way, except that I think it's the "if Biden dies and the Democrats resurrect and nominate Hitler, you still have to vote for them. You'd rather have Trump?" posters that are the paid actors. Oh no, could RuSSiAn bOt faRms be covering all sides of the argument? how are we ever going to tell them apart from genuine conversation?
I think this is a pretty silly comic. It’s a massive whataboutism.
At the beginning of the war I’d always hear “But what about hamas!??1! Do you condemn hamas!?!1”
Then I saw “But what about trump!!1! Obviously you need to support biden while he funds this genocide because the other option is worse!!1!”
Now, I’m seeing “But what about climate change!?!?!? What about the corrupt courts ??!?!?!? But what about reproductive rights ?!?!?”
The comic, to me, shows that there's a lot more at stake than Gaza this election season. Protest voting because Biden hasn't done more will make all those issues, especially Gaza, insurmountably worse.
Netanyahu isn't angling for a Trump presidency because of personal preference.
I appreciate your expression of your view of this comic as it’s genuinely much more good faith than what I feel the artist was going for, like /gen I agree with everything you say here.
Do you mind me asking if you know the source of this? I want to learn more about the artist and see if I am just totally misreading the intent of the work
edit found it, analysis of this dude pending yet
edit 2: okay yeah i looked thru every comic of his since oct 7, and i just kind of see some minor both-sidesing of the genocide and absolutely no criticism of US or even corporate involvement in Israeli apartheid. so my original judgement of this artist as being kind of a patronizing loser stands.
Well, if you think there’s a lot at stake then I think the best course of action would to start getting things done. If you want to stop protest votes, then why are you yelling at the people who are protesting? They aren’t protesting tiny things, they are protesting the funding of a fucking genocide. Why are you not saying something like “Well, wouldn’t this whole issue have been avoided if Biden started putting pressure on Israel a month or two ago?”
Failing to do shit about gaza and then being like “Hey, I’m less evil over here” is playing chicken with a hand grenade while hoping you don’t notice that they can just as easily put the pin back in.
I think the best way to see this is like this:
- the student protestors: “Stop the genocide now”
- the anti-protest voters: “Hey, if we do nothing for 6 months and alienate you, its your fault that our inaction caused you to not vote”
You are placing the blame on the wrong people, and just throwing distractions and diversions from problems that could be fixed now to make biden likely to win.
The comics making a point about how many crises we're facing. But Biden is already president. These are his crises.
This sentiment ignores that there is more to the government than the president and that the president is not (currently) a dictator.
(The conservatives in the judiciary seem primed to make the presidency a dictatorship, but won't do it while a Democrat is on office)
Don't worry, the folks who aren't voting for Biden over Palestine aren't voting for Trump either, so it balances out.
Forgot the /s
That's a minus from Biden not from both. Trump supporters aren't upset over Gaza.
Everyone shut the fuck up and vote Biden. We'll figure everything else out later.
The alternative is we do not get a later. Ever again.
Apparently it's never the time to actually improve things because there are elections every two years and anyone disrupting party unity (which insists on keeping the status quo) at any time is supposedly a risk.
This time it’s different, sure it was different last time, and next time will be different too, but this time its different
Just like school or mass shootings. Can't do anything about it cause too fresh, then can't do anything because another just happened so need to mourn for it and continue to not do anything
So long as we're stuck with a two party system, and money is wholly controlling the political process, your statement is true. Attempt to disrupt all you like, but vote like the person elected could ruin your life.
At some point we have to amend the Constitution to remove money from the political process, then disruption happens easily. Until then, unless ranked choice voting has been implemented in your local elections, voting for somebody with zero likelihood of winning is logically voting for the eventual winner.
I hope we someday have the reality of seeing more than two parties compete on a national level, but it's not happening in 2024. The youth needs to be much more organized and have much higher voter turnout before that's a possibility.
The alternative is we do not get a later. Ever again.
this may sound exagerated, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#Expansion_of_presidential_powers
The election is half a year away and a genocide is ongoing. Worry about the election when its actually upcoming.
All those issues are empowered by the public allowing genocide.
Lemmy.world is pro genocide
All these single issue voters upset about genocide and telling you not to support our leader are just foreign actors trying to destabilize
GermanyAmerica.Stopping gun violence is what the Gaza protestor is trying to to do. Banning bigotry? Yep, same. Save democracy? How? By standing strong with genocide? Not very fucking likely, imo.
For all of the people who will inevitably show up to say "But you can't criticize Biden, it's an election year": man, I can't imagine offering such a bad take completely unprompted and free of charge. People are throwing tomatoes at you from the shores of history, you just don't know it yet. Supporting genocide is wrong, period. If Biden doesn't want to be criticized for it, maybe he should stop supporting it.
For all of the people who will inevitably show up to say "But you can't criticize Biden, it's an election year":
I have never heard anyone say that. In fact, it's because you can criticize Biden and there's even an outside chance he'll listen that makes him the better candidate than the guy who listens to nobody ever, unless the message is how to make him more wealthy.
Edit: Actually, the only people I have heard say that are propagandists setting up straw men. Like you.
The only propaganda I want to spread is the propaganda of stopping genocide. I'd love to see Biden do it. Like, unironically. Please, as soon as possible.
Edit: incredible, I never thought I'd live to see "stop genocide" get down voted. What a world to live in. I realize my tone is kind of shitty, but wow, really.
True great leaders such as Putin do not do the genocides. This is why voting is not good. As we know, Biden does the genocides and we will not be voting because of this. Also I am interfluid attendant of college who is working for community of color.
yes republicans banning books compares to having your home bombed into rubble while a nation state attempts to exterminate your people
What about Republicans denting women healthcare, trying to overturn an election, pandering to an authoritarian who is currently facing a whole stack of felonies he most likely committed based on his bragging about them, and dtoking public anger by encouraginng violence?
Maybe we just want to avoid having the nation state start exterminating anyone who doesn't agree with a fascist MAGA government.
I’m with you in that trump is bad, and I will do what is needed when it comes time to vote to make sure he is not president again. BUT all that you listed is still not worse than the genocide of over 35,000 people. All Biden needs to do is stop spending our tax dollars in support of this ethnic cleansing
Palestinian supporters make up a tiny, insignificant portion of single issue voters.
Anyone who operates such that they're X until the issue of Israel comes up is a single issue partisan too, they're just better at hiding it.
Something like 3% of democratic voters. Which would be a margin they could afford to lose if not for the electoral college.
Nailed them in one picture. Perfectly illustrated.
