Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez warns anti-Biden Democrats about what comes next if they succeed
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez warns anti-Biden Democrats about what comes next if they succeed
The progressive New Yorker spoke on Instagram about the potential risks of pressuring President Joe Biden to end his campaign.
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has issued a dire warning to her party about the chaos that could ensue if they succeed in pushing President Joe Biden off the ticket. And she criticized Democrats who’ve given off-the-record quotes that suggest the party has resigned itself to a second Trump term.
In an Instagram Live video on Thursday, Ocasio-Cortez warned liberals that a brokered convention could lead to chaos, in part because she says some of the Democratic “elites” who want Biden out also don’t want Vice President Kamala Harris as the nominee in his place.
“If you think that is going to be an easy transition, I’m here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and these elites who are pushing for the president not to be the nominee also do not want to see the VP be the nominee,” she said.
Ocasio-Cortez claimed none of the people she’s spoken with who are calling on Biden to drop out — including lawmakers and legal experts — have articulated a plan to swap out the nominee without minimizing the serious legal and procedural challenges that are likely to ensue.
Ocasio-Cortez also highlighted the racial, ethnic and class divisions that appear to have formed between the majority of those pining to blow up the ticket — led mostly by white Democrats and media pundits — and those elected officials who feel they and their constituents have too much at stake to upend the process at this point and so are willing to do the work to re-elect Biden-Harris. She alluded to this cultural divide in her video when she spoke out against anonymous sources expressing a sense of fatalism on behalf of Democrats about what might happen if Biden remains on the ticket:
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose. For me, to a certain extent, I don’t care what name is on there. We are not losing. I don’t know about you, but my community does not have the option to lose. My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July of an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
AOC and Bernie are both saying this and I agree 110%. In all occasions. The most important thing is we all make a plan to go out and vote. Talk to other democrats and make sure they fight that demoralization and go out and vote. There is so much at stake with Project 2025 that I dont even care about these headlines anymore.
Agreed. She also pointed out that early voting ballots go out in September. A new campaign would have an eight week runway if it started now.
His health is declining fast and way too many people think he looks too old (both candidates are) and too mentally busted to last 4 more years. Let alone him even staying coherent another 6 months. He is 100% unable to coherently and quickly speak anymore and it's not going to magically get better. The real issue is that they should have done something about it 4 months ago so a better candidate could have been picked and it could have looked like Bidens choice to no run for a second term.
I still think the best chance is to put in someone else, but it's pretty much too late for them to get their shit together.
I’m beginning to think the play is for Joe to only last till the election because there’s no fucking way the country is going to learn about and be excited by one single person with the amount of time the completely incompetent DNC has left us with. If Joe decides he’s too banged up on day one, he can leave the office then.
Thank you. I’ve been saying this for years now and usually get downvoted for it, which makes me sad – not because I care about downvotes but because so many people seem not to understand that this is 1933 and we need to be all-in against fascism right now.
Biden just stepped down, so it’s even more important that we unite against the threat. I don’t care who’s on the Democrat ticket – whether it’s Kamala or anyone else, even Biden’s bitey dog – this isn’t the time to debate policy. We need to vote and convince everyone who isn’t a fascist to vote against this. If we don’t, they will kill us, and that’s not hyperbole.
Please vote.
This is a good fucking take, have to say. She very obviously knows what she's talking about extremely well, has the best interests of those she represents at heart, and knows how to express it all clearly for the average layperson. You don't get a lot of politicians of that caliber.
No wonder the Republicans hate her so much!
I can’t understand the people who dislike her. My sisters don’t like her either and think she’s “dumb” but every time she speaks, she makes what seems to me to be well thought out, rational arguments.
The dumb person is your sister.
Because they're gobbling up the mainstream media narrative that labels both progressives, and women who are politicians, as irrational and naive. AOC gets the whole venn diagram of bullshit thrown at her.
Yes, even women can internalize misogyny. You only have to go as far as your local fundie churches to hear women saying FeMaLEs are too emotional to be president or that women should be subservient to their husbands because women just no brain good compared to men.
I wouldn't say I dislike her, but I don't like the AOC worship here.
Yes, she voices what we're all thinking. She elevates our voice.
The problem is that she's also unrealistic in expectations, and that can cause a rift. I wouldn't say her comments cause a rift in the party itself, but among voters.
For example, she was all in on the expanding the SCOTUS bandwagon. Functionally, it's untenable. Any politician should know that. There's some loophole that would allow you to do it with simple majorities in house and senate, but that loophole is sketchy and likely won't work out. And if it does, that opens Pandora box to completely railroad this country next time Reps get simple majorities in both houses. Which may be half a year away.
But it seems like a brilliant workaround on the surface. And people who bought into that pipe dream became extremely disruptive, causing fights amongst blue voters.
And this isn't the only time. She's a consistent voice of the Progressives. Which is fine. Idealist should have a voice. But I would prefer it if her and Bernie would also include pragmatic expectations with their ideas in a way that doesn't put their more moderate colleagues on blast for no reason.
To give it a real world hypothetical we can all probably relate to. I'm a programmer, so I'll put it in those terms, but this applies to pretty much any job one way or another.
Let's say you're maintaining a code base that has a lot of problems. Maintaining it is a nightmare. Ask an experienced engineer, I have identified a number of solutions of varying effort and effectiveness.
The best solutions would require giant re-writes and would require parallel effort from other teams to support our effort. Risk is large
The next best requires extensive refactoring of our teams code base, but can be done in isolation from other teams for the most part. Risk is still large because we're going to need to swap out major parts of our internal infrastructure, but no impact to other teams.
And then there's the shortest path. Fix problems as they come up, make small refactors as you can to help relieve some headaches. Let's you move fast and not be disruptive, but the underlying problems stay around. Smallest risk.
Now, having brought these to the table, management chooses the least risky option because they can't or won't commit to larger scale efforts because of other priorities.
Do I talk shit, be extremely negative, try to get other non-management colleagues to join my outcry for the "right" solution? I could. I have. But if I do, I'm putting my employment / influence at risk. And sometimes it's more appropriate to just keep the ideal solution on the backburner, do what's immediately effective, and bring the best solution to the table at a better time.
To me, AOC and Bernie are those coworkers that won't shut up about the "perfect" solution. And maybe even attack their colleagues for not supporting them in their pursuit of perfect when they're just trying to tread water and get the easier wins to the finish line.
AOC for President.
It'd be nice to have a competent candidate for once.
Met her briefly at a Sanders campaign rally. Would vote for her in a heartbeat.
see, I have hella respect for Bernie and his heartfelt endorsements (i.e. local, state reps) carry weight. national endorsements are usually more political and harder to guage.
this genuinely creates an internal, personal dilemma.
edit: the deed is done and, I imagine, Bernie is released from any obligations owed for what he got into the biden agenda. will be interesting to watch.
Go back and watch Pelosi's speeches from the late 70s on C-SPAN. AOC sounds exactly like her, and we've seen how out of touch Pelosi and all other politicians are.
So maybe Pelosi shouldn't be in office for over 50 years then. I'm not throwing away a good thing now because it might spoil later. May as well empty out your fridge while you're at it with that logic.
She turned me around. I'm riding with Biden. I'm serious. I hope the Democrats don't fuck this up even more. If Kamala can't taker her rightful place without the donors get in the way then fuck them all. I'm voting for a mentally compromised candidate. I hate this system.
Dammit Marvin you depressed dipshit, I hate it when you’re right.
Samesies, thank you.
I’m voting for a mentally compromised candidate.
Not if they yank him off the ticket, first. That's been half the joke of this election.
Biden was never seriously primaried, even as people like Dean Phillips were screaming about his collapsing mental state. Now we're days out from the Dem convention and suddenly people want to do a quicky re-vote? Its too late you assholes. You blew it.
I'm with AOC that a contested convention will almost certainly produce some kind of horrid ghoul like Joe Manchin at the top of the ticket. Curious to see how disposable the party has Kamala. But the idea that Biden is somehow worth defending is asinine. Backing Biden as he deteriorates in real time is a bad move by AOC and won't be repaid even if Biden does win the election, because he's always been a corporate creature with no love for a couple of Brooklyn leftists like AOC and Sanders.
I trust AOCs judgement, although it might just be both options are equal as long as the party can commit to one. The worst possible outcome is non-commitment, as it's the worst of both worlds.
Stick with Biden, you rally 100% with a flawed candidate and highlight all the good he's done with a flawed Congress (a majority in name only on progressive issues). Can win if you don't repeat 2016 mistakes, which at this point I don't think we'll be taking the rust belt for granted.
Abandon Biden 100%, you quickly side with an obvious choice and build a campaign. Time isn't on your side but you aren't dealing with a much baggage. Can win if the big tent party can agree on things and rally behind the choice even if it's not their first choice. Kamala is boring but probably would be the pick with least resistance.
The problem is neither is happening, so you get Biden with sub-100% support and buying into the age narrative rather than pivoting to his strengths, which is very much a losing strategy. Those resigned to losing probably know this is our trajectory unless something big happens (e.g. Biden sheds the age narrative somehow or drops out leading to a clear successor.)
My hope? We get a 2016 surprise in our favor: polls say Trump wins 99% odds yet Biden pulls off an upset. Wouldn't that be sweet irony...
My hope? We get a 2016 surprise in our favor: polls say Trump wins 99% odds yet Biden pulls off an upset. Wouldn't that be sweet irony...
The Trumpanzees are going to screech about the election being rigged regardless what happens, I'd rather not give them any extra ammo for people to take them seriously about it. I'd like to see Trump absolutely blown the fuck out with votes, I want a 98-2% split in favor of Biden. The only votes I want going toward Trump are Guilty votes from his jury.
Fuck that. They've already proven that they will scream rigged regardless of the outcome.
It'll be 98-2 in popular vote, but it'll be 49-51 in electoral college.
Americans have a 2 week memory. There is plenty of time to replace Biden.
That situation won't happen as Trump would sue and the Supreme Court would agree there is fraud with no evidence to back it up.
I think that'll more likely be Congress, unless it's as close as 2000 was. A margin like 2016 would be harder to override through courts, but if GOP gets both chambers I can see them just overriding the vote somehow, January 6 style.
Well they just succeeded. So what now?
Probably Kamala.
Not ideal but then again the Democrats have a history of making stupid-ass decisions.
Probably lose after they put themselves in the untenable position.
Switching to someone with a 40% chance is better than sticking with a 26% chance.
Boooo
She ain't wrong.
I'm willing to admit that I also wanted this situation sorted out and handled before now with someone energetic and capable of getting people excited to vote. I've since decided that this is a problem for the Democratic party to handle, not me. Their candidate could be Minnesota's very own dog mayor for all I fucking care.
This aged like milk
Aging like milk implies that she isn't right about what she said.
Give it until November. If the Biden replacement wins by a landslide, then sure, it will age like milk.
Otherwise, so far, it's aging like fucking fine wine - and I'm not liking it.
That is to be determined.
On paper, her argument is sound. There are plenty of moderates who are still not down for a female president, let alone one as outspoken as Kamala Harris.
I personally think her no-bullshit attitude is exactly what we need, but we will have to see how many people agree
I live in deep red country, and work in a deep red career field, a lot of today's Trumpers have never forgiven Obama for being black, popular, and competent. They took it personally. Harris is going to mobilize the fuck out of them.
I think she's the right pick, I think she can govern well, I'm voting for her 100%. But the Dems need to be prepared. This was a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation for them. But replacing Biden isn't even a fraction of the work they're gonna have to do, and AOC is on point for speaking up about it.
No bullshit attitude?
The only person that spews more bullshit than Harris is Trump.
Don't get me wrong, I'll still vote for her.
She is a shitheel, though.
Can you articulate which part you think aged like milk?
Nah she specifically said that Biden being forced out and Kamala not being supported by the establishment would be bad - which makes sense because incumbency is a huge advantage
More like hydrogen-7.
If Biden stays in and loses, AOC doesn't want centrists to blame the left. They will anyway.
If he stays in and wins, centrists will consider it a mandate to continue moving right from a position that includes Trump's border policy and genocide.
You’re acting like Centrists don’t want climate change legislation, or didn’t support the Inflation reduction act. Or that they don’t support a wealth tax.
Sinema and Manchin do not represent the full body of Centrists. There are hundreds of them in Congress that supported all of these initiatives.
The Problem Solvers Caucus has 32 Democratic members. And they were notably opposed to keeping Build Back Better intact. They very much do not support a wealth tax and are always shaky on climate change. Centrists are a small problematic sliver of the Democratic caucus.
Fucking finally a progressive with some sense (I say this as a progressive myself).
We need to be real here, this isn't a fucking joke.
‘Could lead to chaos’. Ma’am, that ship has sailed. When even high ranking party members openly doubt the president’s ability to get elected, much less actually lead, you’ve clearly lost control of the situation.
Will replacing Biden at this stage be easy? Of course not. But he shouldn’t have been in the Oval Office in the first place. Running a candidate this frail once was a gamble… doing it twice is suicidal.
Democrat leadership only has itself to blame for this predicament.
It's annoying that she put this on Instagram where there's no scrobble function, and she then spends so much time leading up to it.
For those not willing to sit around listening to off-the-cuff meandering, AOC's points:
- Ohio requires political parties to submit their candidates' names before the Democratic convention. If the convention is contested, Democrats likely won't be able to vote there effectively.
- AOC says that swing states might have enough legal ambiguity in the electoral code that Republicans can challenge any voting results, and then let it escalate to the Supreme Court who can throw out the Democratic result.
- Democrats are divided on who would be the replacement candidate, with many of the people calling for Biden to step down opposing Harris as well.
- The Biden/Harris campaign has $100M of campaign funding that will not be able to be transferred to another ticket. (Maybe it can be transferred to Harris? She mumbles a bit there).
- Anecdotally, when AOC sat "in rooms with those people" that call for Biden to step down, they didn't seem to have a proposed game plan for any sort of replacement. This includes lawyers who ought to know whether this creates legal trouble and people in the legislature.
- There is a risk that if the Democratic convention is contested, it won't be concluded before the deadline to submit the ticket in more states, which is two days after the scheduled end.
- There are no candidates that poll way better than Biden.
- Many mail-in votes can already be made in September or October. A new candidate would have to have a succesful campaign by that time.
- Biden is systematically underestimated (by Democrats and fianciers?) in his ability to rally 'demographics typically not cared for'.
- Biden does great with elderly people, which may not transfer to other Democrats.
- Democrats opposing Biden seem to be mostly concerned about big donors, not popular support.
- Democratic party members speaking anonymously to the press is both strategically stupid and undemocratic. They should have either spoken out publicly or kept it behind closed doors. The fact that they did may be why Biden is polling so bad.
- Biden gets energized from having people around him, which was not the case for the debate with Trump.
My personal opinions:
- With regards to Ohio, betting websites put the Republicans at 95% chance of winning the state, and Biden appears to have been trailing by 10 percentage points even before the debate. Losing Ohio only matters if you would have won Ohio with Biden, and that's questionable.
- With regards to the Supreme court handing the election to Trump based on a bullshit legal ruling, it seems like AOC is making the dangerous and questionable assumption that the Supreme Court cares about the law, and that the outcome of these legal challenges will depend on technicalities rather than on whether they think they can practically succeed at the coup.
- With regards to the $100M war chest, this seems to be cancelled out by her argument that Democrats opposing Trump are mostly concerned about donors. In 2020, Biden's election got $1 billion in funding while on May 9th, Biden had raked in $170M according to this website. So with upwards of $700M of donations left to collect, a 14% decrease in donations would mean Biden has less money to work with than other candidates.
- With regards to other candidates not doing much better, it seems impressive that they are polling better than Biden even with Biden running a massive election campaign and having spent a hundred million dollars in ads already. I would expect the gap to widen if those other candidates actually start trying to win the election as much as Biden is.
- With regards to the votes in September and October, with regards to the elderly and demographics typically not cared for and popular support, these all seem to be cancelled out by the polls.
- With regards to the Democrat backchannels, the damage is done. It's fair that she's mad about it, but it doesn't affect future decisions.
- With regards to Biden's energy, either this doesn't explain the Zelensky-Putin gaffe, or it's kind of irrelevant. Biden won't be sitting in the oval office with an audience to work off of.
So from everything AOC says, all that seems reasonable to me is (1) the observation that there is no good Democratic alternative plan, (2) the worry that the convention might run long so the alternative candidate can't appear on the ticket, (3) the possibility that a succesful Republican coup is significantly more likely with a candidate that might provide loopholes for the Supreme Court to work off of than with Biden, and (4) the possibility of losing Ohio if Biden would otherwise have won it.
However, even here, the parts of the alternative plan she is most worried about seems to be the legal trouble, which she seems most worried about only if the Democrats aren't on time with selecting a candidate. It seems to me that if only the Democrats are able to rally behind a new candidate before the Ohio deadline two days before the convention, none of her concerns apply more to the new candidate than to Biden. If it happens after the Ohio deadline, it only matters if there is a technicality that disqualifies the new candidate and Biden would otherwise have won Ohio and that technicality determines whether a coup succesfully occurs.
If you view it as a full screen reel and not a regular post in a feed then you should be able to select a time. Instagram is stupid.
Ohhh I gotta see if that's why I feel like "randomly" I can't scroll on videos there
Thanks for the synopsis.
In regards to a few of your points:
- There is a reason "generic democrat" polls better in general. It's because they're an unknown quantity. People assume they'll be better. Most people are not tuned in and do not know who Whitmer, Newsom, etc. are. Give it like two weeks of negative ads on them calling them socialists, etc. and boom, the polls drop. I would fully expect the polls to shift for a new candidate but LOWER, not higher. It's much easier to inspire fear in unknown candidates rather than known ones.
- Biden is a known quantity. He cannot be decried as a "socialist" or any other thing. People know him for better or worse and that's that.
- Elderly? The most reliable voting block in the country? Ignore them at your own peril for an unknown.
AOC makes solid points and so I take a few things differently from you and say she is precisely right in her analysis. I think if the Dems switch then we get a Humphrey/Mondale mashup where the Democrats are absolutely trounced in the general.
The time for this crap was 2 years ago, not the past month. Democrats need to find a stiff upper lip and back Biden with all their might.
Is it not called "scrubbing"? Scrobble is music
Are people here finally understanding the consequences of removing Biden? Will I continue to be berated for asking for evidence of the claims around him?
If Biden is on the ballot, I will vote for him. I also want him off.
But, frankly, we need to scare the pants off the Democratic party if there is going to be any chance they change their behavior.
Where are the five great younger candidates they have have been fostering to be ready for something like this? Nowhere, because they keep putting all their effort into one entrenched candidate and then force them through no matter what. Look how disastrous it was when they kept pushing Hillary when Bernie was doing so well, she lost. Now so many people are saying "no" to Biden, what should we expect will happen?
If history is our judge, we're going to lose, whether we can afford to or not. Because even if we supported Biden right now with solidarity, a lot of people are going to not vote for him, whether we like it or not.
Would it be better if the Democratic party didn't see how unhappy people were and we all pretended it would be ok and told them we would just vote for any candidate they give us no matter how bad?
What could possibly go wrong when the higher ups in the party completely sabotage the candidate and use the results of that as justification for telling him to get out?
People have understood. Biden is a sure loss, he literally cannot win. So the next best option is Harris. The question mark is, as AOC points out, will these wealthy donors realize that or will they sabotage the party.
Biden still needs to go. No question. Biden attempting to campaign will put Trump into office.
All those polls of him losing are within the margin of error, not to mention that polls are, while not completely unreliable, not completely trustworthy, either. Remember when all the polls showed Trump losing?
Biden is a sure loss
Bullshit. This was bullshit yesterday, it was bullshit a month ago, it was bullshit at the beginning of the year, and it was bullshit in 2020.
I wanted Bernie to win. I wanted Biden to decline seeking reelection. I wanted Biden to take a harder stance on Gaza, I want the democrats to be better at messaging. However, there is scant evidence that Biden is likely to lose, and this claim that it's a "sure" thing is absolutely fucking wrong because it's far from certain. Fuck you, fuck every single one of you liars pushing this absolutely shit unsupported narrative.
Every single poll that shows Biden losing shows young people voting for Trump, and that's a clear indicator of unreliability. Every other method of prediction put Biden in the fucking lead, but conviently no one's talking about that. I fucking wonder why?
Show your work or delete this bullshit.
We all saw the debate
I didn't, and frankly none of what I've heard was particularly surprising or concerning, and my decision of who to vote for would never be effected. Biden was a low-energy flubster, Trump told obvious lies, the sky was blue, the ocean is salty, and bears shit in the goddamn woods. Everybody stop the presses! Bear shits in woods! Forest Rangers contemplate the potential necessity of eurhanizing bear due to woods-shitting incident.
The last few weeks have been a fucking clown show.
The MAGA trolls here pretending to be leftists won’t ever see the reason in this.
If Biden can't make the case for his cognitive ability to fulfill the requirements of the office internally to his own party, how does he expect to stand up and fight the shit storm that the GOP will escalate in the coming months?
If Biden can’t make the case
Media has already decided the case. It's a rigged court. Any other Dem candidate will get the same treatment.
IMO; Biden shouldn’t be forced out.
That way does lead to chaos, and a worse chance in November than with Biden.
Though Biden sucks as a candidate and is very unlikely to win as things now stand.
So, imo, best-case, is Biden choosing to step down. and choosing to stump and campaign full-hog whoever does become president.
I wish our political leaders were rational enough to listen when everyone tells them their wrong and that their putting ego before their responsibilities.
Everyone isn't saying that about Biden. Monied interests are saying that about Biden.
Biden cannot be forced out. It is Biden's decision. There is no harm in discussing this topic while we're waiting for the nomination. Biden has until the virtual convention that is scheduled for the start of August to make a decision. Either option, Biden staying in or dropping out of the race has risks. We need to rally around whoever the candidate ends up being.
I think it makes strategic sense for Harris to takeover and pick Whitmer for her VP. My opinion is a moot point, because I have no say in this. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like Biden is thinking about odds and strategy. He's thinking about his ego.
Well, congrats I guess
No shit. The time for not backing Biden was in the last primary. If the Democrats weren't so fucking short sighted and power hungry, they would have had a primary all of last year instead of now having to back this geriatric horse against a geriatric, racist, fascist, horse in this race.
That said, I'll be voting for the geriatric horse because the alternative will end up getting my minority ass killed.
Biden just stepped down for elections
Yeah, just saw that on my news feed. While I applaud and massively respect him stepping down, it's way late for this I'm my opinion, especially with this dragging out.
Democrats put themselves in a no win situation with this and while I'm still going to vote for not the geriatric, racist, fascist, cocaine addled horse, the rest of America probably won't after Republicans tar the entire Democratic party as incompetent.
i've decided to turn around. i'm ridin with biden!
Uhm... Well the news just came in.
Even before today's news of Biden stepping down, I feel the public party infighting about him/trump/ect instead of getting anything of substance into the news stream is an indication the current democratic party is over. As in effectively not a party.
Thus to add to AOC's comment: A very bad time for this as our system has two semi stable states... 2 party rule.. Or one party rule. (Sure outside groups/parties can and do help mold the main parties to their actual policy goals, but and if are popular enough get merged in or replace a main party)
This means can a new party grow out of the ashes of current one and actually organize in time for the election. (Obviously this "new" party gets to use the name/infrastructure of the one I'm calling over so may just look from the outside a shuffle of administration if fast.. And it needs to be fast)
And while I was happy to vote for Biden, and now presumably Harris, the lack of strength I see from Democrats on policy very much concerns me. (Not even it needs to be as far left as many on here seem to want it but it must be functional.. So those more left can debate actual policy.. Not that issues even exist.. Or ignoring it all together)
One sliver of hope is this can be used to pivot the talking points back on track.. But given the media climate I am not hopeful.
The Democrats seem to be in better shape than the Republicans. The only thing that's keeping their party together is Trump. Democrats have several candidates they could run. Republicans have only one. They've become the cult of Trump.
Not sure I agree republicans are worse off (as much as I might wish they were.)
But hopefully Kamala Harris picks a good running mate and with them gives a proper voice and direction to the party. (My concers aside I want to see the government work for the best interests of the people at the end of the day.. And not for specific groups of people, or corporate interests. (And this includes calling out business owners when they put their business of any size over the needs of the people and community)
Honestly, I'll vote for whomever is on the Democratic tricket. Normally, I would seek the highest quality to be at the top of the ticket. But the other ticket is Trump/Vance. So, yes, I will vote for the ticket that runs against Trump. I vote for a party and for policies. Not a person.
Edit: Looks like Pres Biden left the race.
But... Now hear me out. I'm a mostly lifelong Democrat who is tired of seeing this system get more and more corrupt each cycle. Maybe this capitalist system needs a reboot. I'm losing hope that any candidate the DNC runs is going to fix any of what needs fixing.
It's almost as if they've actually already quietly conceded defeat and are just backfilling the position out of, fuck I don't know, adherence to decorum? I hope I'm just jaded but I have a bad feeling about it.
I think JD Vance is representative of where the moneyed interests are right now in regards to the election. They don't like Trumpism, but they see the Democrats as weak and compromised by economic progressivism. As much as they don't like Trumpism, they hate progressive economic policies, like increasing taxes for the rich, much more. Moneyed interests see that Biden is a weak candidate, that there's not really another Democrat who's stronger, and they want to distance themselves from progressive economic policies as much as possible, so they're going all in on Trump and just hoping they can get him and the Republicans to become less extreme and move nearer to the center.
I think Trump will win the election, with the support of these moneyed interests. However, I think they are taking a huge risk betting that Trump and the Republicans will moderate their politics. If they're wrong, they might be about to unleash a monster they won't be able to control. If Trump and the GOP generally do moderate, they will lose the support of the far right, who will feel betrayed and may react violently.
I don't think moneyed interest give a shit about progressivism as a whole, but the "tax the rich" components of progressivism scare the bejesus out of them.
However, I think they are taking a huge risk betting that Trump and the Republicans will moderate their politics. If they’re wrong, they might be about to unleash a monster they won’t be able to control.
I agree. Oligarchs are playing with fire here. If we go full fascism, money won't protect you from the violence of the state anymore. Your fortune 500 company, your mansions, your cars, your bank account, any and all can be seized to support the fascist regime. And if you protest, no matter how high your former social standing, you'll get sent to a camp.
Well hey, the roman empire had a pretty good run for a bit. Let's roll the dice and see /s
In all seriousness I don't know how America as a country can survive giving presidential authority to a insurrectionist figure head and open political pawn. There's a point where you realise the political institutions do not and have not ever served your best interests and that sh*t always ends badly.
I don't think moneyed interest give a shit about progressivism as a whole, but the "tax the rich" components of progressivism scare the bejesus out of them.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
Go Joe Biden!
So you were saying?
This gives me a moment of pause. I have grave concerns about Biden's ability to campaign, concerns that apparently seem to be shared by Obama after their June fundraiser in LA. I also have serious concerns that if the fundraising class decide to withhold support from Biden, and that between a lack of in person campaigning and a lack of funding, his whole campaign is going to be DOA. Biden can't lean on grassroots fundraising they way Bernie could, and it's now become clear that the reason Biden hasn't been making a lot of appearances is because they wanted to keep it under wraps until now so that there wouldn't be a real primary. But here we are in the real deal and Biden is struggle bussing through interviews. My assumption has pretty much been that he'd step down from the presidency and Harris would become the natural candidate in his place as his VP (Along with the hilarious side effect of making republicans waste all that money on "47" flair). But I guess AOC thinks this won't be the case. I wish I knew better what she seems to know.
She knows that the donors don't like the choice of Harris either and want either a perfect candidate that likely doesn't exist at this point or assume they can just wait it out and be fine because they are wealthy.
I think AOC is just scared of the oligarchy that is disconnected from the ground as well now and what it means when money wins an election and those with it aren't interested anymore unless it is to buy their new slave labor pool in a single election.
Yeah, I would never assume the DNC isn't capable of making a choice that's just utterly disconnected from reality, like somehow concluding that Pelosi is the best candidate to run.
Nancy came out as for an open primary. AOC is warning her ilk about why that's a bad idea, and making sure her constituents know it.
I thought the Republican Party was going to crumble first. Instead it is the Democratic Party that's falling apart, who thought genocide was a winning strategy?
Right? I've been told for decades that the GOP's descent into fascism was the "Screams of a dying party that'll stop soon enough"... but the Democrats apparently ARE the champions of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Vast majority of AOC's support is from the acronym, AOC.
I guess Biden is the ship and the rest of the party is going down with him.
Yeah, the fact that college kids getting beaten up by cops over Palestinian genocide didn't prompt this crisis of confidence in Biden but the donor class getting upset makes it dominate the airwaves is really annoying, but not at all surprising.
At the end of the day, whoever has the best chance of beating Trump should be our nominee whether it's Biden or somebody else
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose. For me, to a certain extent, I don’t care what name is on there. We are not losing. I don’t know about you, but my community does not have the option to lose. My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July of an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
This was really well said and echoes my feelings exactly
Who accepts loss months before the election when the other guy is already saying they won't accept loss months after the election?
Yeah bruh, we’re totally fucked. Brandon could have saved us by fucking off voluntarily. But no, he’s just another cunt politician with a god complex.
Thanks for the fascist hellscape, Brandon. So glad you did your goodest.
Downvote away and continue wishing for the best instead of accepting what is obvious.
Newsom/Kelly 2024
Go big or go home.
Goin home see ya
Later 👍
AoC self admitted she could be wrong and she is. She doesn't keep her finger on the pulse the same we do, she's off building solar panels in Puerto Rico. I like AoC, she's so far off the mark it'll fuck us over.
She argues that changing candidates this late could complicate the Ohio vote and lead to supreme court deciding the election.
What 'pulse' does that even matter about?
Also why do you write 'AoC' like that? Her name isn't Alexandria of Cortes
It's happened what, once? Twice? A meteor could hit the building both candidates debate at but it's as unlikely.
Knowing what's happening is a pretty important part of being a politian. Not knowing what's being said during a conversation is a pretty good way to say something stupid.
Autocorrect for a gaming acronym I use frequently and the laziness to not go back and correct it every time. Though there's something to be said about feeling it nessesary to use it as a point of attack even though it's unrelated.
Also, looks like Biden is dropping out. Sucks to suck.
You'll also lose primary voters. I voted in the primaries, there were multiple candidates, Biden lost the primary in American Samoa. If you throw away my primary vote by swapping in another anointed candidate, why would I ever vote in your primaries again? What is even the point? It's like the DNC learned nothing from the debacle of them trying to squeeze Bernie out of the race (thank you Wikileaks for revealing their corrupt BS and causing reforms to the primary process). They lost a lot of voters doing that.
I hate the RNC, but if they are the only party that will respect my primary vote, they are the primary I will vote in next election. Dems switching primaries like this may produce a more moderate republican candidate, which is bad news for dems, since they won't just be able to run on "The RNC is run by crazy christian fascists who want to take all your rights away".
"Hello, fellow Democrats"
The way ili see it is., the “far left” crowd are demanding sparkling water and refuse to drink from the tap with everyone else-
And not only this, but they intend to destroy the tap so no one else can drink from it because it doesn’t provide what they feel they are entitled to. Regardless of what everyone else feels or wants.
And the irony is- they cry and whine about how America should be a socialist system, but feel that their needs should be met by the government, and don’t care about what everyone wants as a whole.
And what they don’t understand is, whoever ends up in the White House- will be playing the same fucking game Biden did. Because that’s how politics work. It’s negotiation and co promise.
But they’d rather watch America burn than even try to accept this fundamental truth.
It's obvious you haven't taken even a moment to try to understand what the "far left" wants...
How does this rant in any way relate to this story? I'm getting really big "old man yells at cloud" vibes here.
How does it relate? How doesn’t it?
This is the first time I've ever started disagreed with AOC on something. If we stick with Biden we're definitely handing the White House to Trumplethinskin. As Democrats we suck at picking candidates.
we suck at picking candidates.
The issue is voters don't pick the candidates, the DNC does. Then the party will rally behind the hand picked candidate and the public follows behind
Yes you are correct. I was talking to the idea that if we have a brokered convention we still suck at picking candidates most of the time.
You are correct that this is different because the incumbent gets a free pass and we didn't have a real primary between equal candidates.
Same. It's the most out-of-step I've ever been with her and Bernie, a bit jarring for me. I mean, I get it, it's free political capital for progressives to voice support here. But still, as soon as the party started having this conversation through the media, Biden's candidacy became unviable.
Could be that they are doing this to keep them from dumping Harris too, which might be the necessary compromise for the party in the end.
But still, as soon as the party started having this conversation through the media, Biden’s candidacy became unviable.
Yeah, his campaign has been dead since a senator went public in opposition. You don't put in the visible performance he did at the debate, then publicly lose major Democrats, and somehow turn around an already losing campaign. I really don't get anyone who thinks there's some path for Biden to win. He didn't need to lose the faith of a majority of the party to be unviable (which he now has), losing any significant segment was enough to be crippling.
There's no way to put the genie back in the bottle and people trying to act like it just seem out of touch with reality. Whatever risks you think a new candidate has, at least there's a chance.
We did it! You are welcome America!
This is the most I have ever felt that we as demographic have been heard and acknowledged. Strategically placing ourselves in swing states was a smart long term strategy :D The bananas have brought you O' monkey!
Does she really think Genocide Joe is actually popular?
Lmao at her and the people in this thread pretending that Biden being a senile geriatric is "media propaganda".
Just watch the first 2 minutes of Bidens debating against Trump. Any sane person realizes this is completely Joever.
Nobody is attached to Biden as a candidate. Even the most hardcore superlibs here are saying they don't like Biden and just vote blue no matter who.
If anyone can be called Russian plant it's AOC because she really wants Trump to win.
Obviously the most "hardcore superlibs" don't like Biden, he appeals to moderates.
Everyone saying "the DNC needs to do this, or do that" is making the mistake of thinking that the average politically minded citizen makes the difference in the election. The popular vote doesn't get you the election, and the average citizen only cares about politics when it personally affects them.
So the strategy that they are going with is "don't rock the boat" with the average citizen that knows Biden's name, and also with the elites with money and power who don't want a more progressive candidate. And they're desperately hoping all the hardcore libs vote blue no matter who, including Biden.
The average citizen hates Biden. Biden lost all of them the moment they saw the CNN debate.
I'm guessing nobody here actually watched the CNN debate.
She needs to sit down and shut the fuck up. If Biden stays in, there is 100% certainty that Trump is going to win.
My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
Im sure she still has some of those crocodile tears she shed at the border for them.
my community does not have the option to lose
That's not how elections work. No one is going to count how important the outcome is to you. The election will be decided by low-engagement voters in swing states, not by the New Yorkers who elected Ocasio-Cortez. Those New Yorkers actually might as well stay home on election day, since the Democrats will definitely get New York's electoral college votes anyway.(Your preferred Democratic candidate only matters if (1) you live in a swing state and (2) you're seriously considering voting for Trump. If you're one of those people, you probably don't have a high opinion of Ocasio--Cortez and you probably aren't on Lemmy. Otherwise your job is to figure out which candidate those people prefer and make sure he's the one running.)You're missing the point, even though it's in bold letters and flashing.
She's saying that her constituents are among those that are severely threatened by a GOP win. "Failure is not an option" is a very simple way of expressing that. A loss may eventually mean literal concentration camps or some flavor of that (deportation, loss of basic rights, etc)
I'm not missing that point, I'm replying to it. Her constituents are already overwhelmingly likely to vote for any Democratic candidate and live in a solidly blue state, and such people are not going to be the ones who decide the election. The Democrats need input from a representative whose constituents might actually vote for Trump and have their votes matter, not from her. If she's talking about what her constituents need, what she's saying is irrelevant because their need, no matter how great, still leaves their votes worthless here.
You're not even American, so how can you dictate how our elections actually work?
With no path to victory by Biden, a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump.
Nice try. It's only a vote for Trump if you don't vote.
Nice try, all votes are votes for trump. Biden, third party, not voting, and trump, all are votes for trump. You've already voted for him and don't know it, check your back pocket, there you'll find a ballot where all the candidates are trump and they're all filled out. Even your parakeet is voting for trump. Once trump wins again, he'll split and clone himself like a bacteria and then the new clone will be able to win two more terms since it's a legally distinct entity, and all votes will be votes for clonotrump.
Then who does my vote go to if I don't vote for Trump either? I'm sure as fuck not voting for a Democrat, and I'm sure as fuck not voting for a Republican. From a communist perspective, you both are the same people.
Fuck off. I don’t think Biden can win this, but the ONLY viable choice is whichever D is actually running.
Joined four days ago and clearly here for the open dialogue.
Added to the extensive blocklist.
"Trust me, it'll be super bad (in non-specific ways) to swap out Biden. There are unspecified people pushing to replace Biden for unspecified bad-faith reasons. Just ignore the obvious problems with the candidate, stop saying critical things and get in line. You naysayers don't want to be responsible for handing Donald Trump the election, do you?"
Super strategy, guys.
As opposed to the strategy that's been spammed here for months:
"Well clearly the Democrats are useless and are going to lose. It's Weekend at Bernie's out there except it isn't even Bernie. The DNC has never done anything for the people and have decided to roll over for Trump. My friends and I are just not going to vote, that'll give the party a wakeup call."
Unification is about the only strategy that will win this. I will absolutely vote blue no matter who, but if anyone was serious about replacing Biden they would have had to unify behind another candidate weeks or months ago. "Maybe Newsom" is NOT A STRATEGY.
My friends and I are just not going to vote, that'll give the party a wakeup call
Then they'll go all surprised Pikachu that there are no elected officials or candidates pushing their views the next time around.
I was with you until not voting. I have very real concerns about Biden's ability to even be on the campaign trail. The dude struggles through schedules interviews and appearances in ways that he clearly didn't used to. It seems to me that they did everything possible to hide his present condition so that there wouldn't be a real primary, which is a shame, because I think that he's no longer fit to serve the role of the presidency given present evidence. That said, I would vote for a dead body before I vote for Trump; I'm just frustrated that the democrats are making me.
(in non-specific ways)
(raises hand)
Who are we replacing him with?
If that doesn't have an answer then I have one very specific way in which dropping him might make things worse
If the answer is "let the DNC figure it out, they've never steered us wrong before with a candidate" then I will have at least one follow up question
The likely answer is Harris, but the actual answer is whoever he endorses. Everyone on both sides of the issue has agreed that forcing him off the ticket won't work, which is why it's been a pressure campaign.
In any case, the notion the donors are going to all line up and bring someone we've never heard of out of a back room to supplant the obvious choice of the vice president or even a popular governor isn't realistic.
Completely missed the point.
I'm sorry but she says enough here about the machinations of the donor-class that makes me think someone absolutely heinous is being lined up to take Biden's place
The post you’re responding to says no one is making good suggestions, just saying “give up and come up with a new last minute plan”. Awful advice. Just awful.
No one cares if you critique anyone. It’s not anyone’s job to take bad plans seriously.
Did you read the post?
Did you read the post?
They definitely did not.
Did you read it?
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose.
She stated over and over again in the stream that people voicing concerns about Biden's ability are weakening him, and followed her new recurring habit of failing to rebut any of those concerns.
You're acting like we're entering completely unknown waters if we switch candidates. The strategy is simply to get a new candidate, likely the other person already on the ticket, run a campaign and win. The fact that several alternatives are polling neck and neck with the two candidates without even campaigning is a testament to how weak both Biden and Trump are.