The sequels aren't bad because they're woke (are they woke, though?), they're bad because they're bad.
For example, I think Daisy Ridley played the part very well, and the character fit in the overarching universe. But the plot was awful and predictable.
And somehow Palpatine returned.
EDIT/ADDITION for emphasis: I loved the acting. Especially Finn. I didn't find Kylo Ren to be a believable character, but Adam Driver did a great job regardless. Everyone did a great job with Ep VII, except the writers and Disney execs.
These memes always rub me the wrong way. First, they're making fun of hateful Star Wars fans, which is great. But they're also ignoring just how bad the sequels were. Make no mistake, they were BAD.
This, heaven forbid a fan who legitimately wanted to like the movies just didn't like them. No problem with the time skip, the actors, love interests, etc. the plot just sucked, the story was haphazardly thrown together. Disney wanted to cash in on nostalgia and pumped out 3 movies with no prior planning or guiding direction between the films. But if anyone complains they're being hypercritical, or racist, or sexist, or doesn't appreciate the spirit of the movies. Fuck that, at least Filoni is slowly fixing it. Stomach literally sank when I learned he wasn't in charge of the acolyte in some form.
Episode 7 is still good. Is it a rip of episode 4? Sure. But it's still actually fun to watch, with good pacing, and good characters.
Also, Kylo stopping, and holding, a blaster shot mid shoot is fucking cool!
The biggest problem with episode 7 is that it gives us "Empire vs. Rebels 2" which i hate as the direction for the future that episode 6 set up. The second biggest problem is its a bunch of mystery boxes with no plans to back them up i.e why is Rey important? Who the fuck is the green goggle lady? Why is Luke a hermit? What is the purpose of the map to Luke? Who fucking cares cause JJ sure didn't
But it’s still actually fun to watch, with his pacing, and good characters.
I disagree with all of this.
Eight was half of a good movie. Seven was a series of vinettes of varying quality that ended in disappointment.
7 is fine, 8 is better imo, 9 is atrocious. If they were able to just make 9 decent the sequels would be acceptable. They really, really needed to have these movies thought out from the start though. You can absolutely tell they have no idea where the story goes from one movie to the next.
It's so fucking cool... and makes no god damn sense whatsoever. Especially when you realize he's supposed to be some hotheaded half-trained guy who probably has undiagnosed ADHD. He couldn't concentrate enough to do that if he was sitting meditating in the most serene place in the galaxy, much less in the middle of a trainwreck that the scene took place in.
It was unimaginably forced with no basis in plot or the established universe.
Which pretty much speaks to the entire direction of the sequels in general. "Ooh, pretty... but super fucking dumb"
That Kylo scene is my favorite ever display of using the force. It was so fucking awesome and ominous and powerful.
Finally! All the complaints about the plot essentially being a redo of ANH are completely valid, but they don't make it a bad movie. It's actually fun to watch and the characters have some character, which is not something you can say about a certain crowd favourite around here...
Not a big fan of Star Wars (I know right? Why would I mention that here) and even I got to admit that laser holding scene was badass.
There was some social commentary in that golden casino planet where the rich lived in excess while the poor barely got by (pay no attention to the Jabba behind the curtain)
And, of course, they cast minorities in leading roles!
Lando Calrissian deserved more screen time in the original trilogy. He was an incredible character.
There was some social commentary in that golden casino planet where the rich lived in excess while the poor barely got by (pay no attention to the Jabba behind the curtain)
Good world building, but it did nothing to move the story forward. The entire casino planet could have been cut and the story would be unchanged without any social or story impacts.
If they were going for social commentary, they could have set it up to find out that rebel weapons like the X-wing fighters and whatever macguffin they needed so save the main plot line were built by slave labor.
Semi-evil procurement character: "Yeah, I understand what you need. I can have it built in a day. Its an extremely toxic manufacturing process and because I'm not set up for that work, 20 or 30 slaves will die but thats no problem. Yeah, I can get it for you in the day you need it."
They would have had to make a choice between save the slaves or getting the macguffin. They could have still chosen to not come away with the macguffin because they chose to save the slave labor and at least that would have given purpose to the whole distraction of that storyline.
And, of course, they cast minorities in leading roles!
I liked that part. John Boyega, among others, was a great actor. Kelly Marie Tran did as best she could with the bad writing.
Oh noes. I need to go out and buy some pearls to clutch.
Star Wars is about as a woke as it always has been. Some people are mad about strong female roles when the first movie that came out in the 70s and every after it has had strong female roles.
There is a difference between well-written female characters that also happen to be strong vs hollow, soulless, undeveloped charachters whose only defining feature is being a "strong female character".
See the difference beetween Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Leia, Padme, Rita Vrataski, Gamora, Nebula, Naomi Nagata[1], and so on vs Galadriel (rings of power), Capitan Marvel, Ironhearth (MCU), She-hulk and whatever happened in Star Wars Acolyte (I could go on like this for a long time, but I think that you get what I mean already).
[1] I even included modern examples, to highlight that it's not old good, new bad
I'm guessing these same people aren't big fans of Aien
They removed Finn from the poster for the Chinese release. Star Wars is not and has never been "woke", Disney always just does what makes them the most amount of money.
I wouldn't necessarily say that they are not woke. If it maximises their returns, they will definitely do anything they think will get them the woke crowd's money (see also the shoehorned lesbian kiss in ep9). They will also do their best to get the money of the anti-woke crowd (see also: removing the black man from posters; keeping the lesbian kiss contained to five easily cuttable seconds for certain releases).
It's more correct to not think of them as woke nor not woke, they are just whoring themselves out to whomever they believe they can get to bring them the largest amounts of money (see the company's history of political donations).
Rainbow capitalism at its finest. My girlfriend showed me a clip from an interview with the writers behind The Acolyte saying it'll be the gayest star wars ever. The shows not over yet so they might be right but so far they had a lesbian couple and couldn't manage so much as a peck.
It's not critical to the plot or anything but it demonstrates that there's some really simple lines Disney still won't cross when it comes to LGBT representation.
Palpatine was supposed to return. The clones eventually were turned into a way to let Palpatine jump bodies. But in the immortal words of the Matrix, "Not like this. Not like this."
I was genuinely shocked to see how good an actor Hayden Christensen was when he wasn't in a Star Wars movie.
I didn't know he has been in any other movies.
Off-screen. Like all the great moments...
Gotta get that sexy JJ magic box plot to get all the kiddies hooked without doing any legwork!
That's one of the things what's good about The Boys. Show it to the audience, not tell them.
"Hey guys, so I just did a bit of returning off screen and made 10,000 death star ships"
I feel so bad for the cast that gave it their all and performed well in a film that sound up being so shit. Frankly the crew too. Imagine living the dream being a camera operator on Star Wars and even though your work is exceptional, the film sucked.
Breaks my heart.
Somehow... eh? Let me tell you about Darth Plagueis the Wise and his asshat of apprentice.
But yes, even a grade school pupil with crayons could have it better explained.
Obligatory “just watch Andor” comment.
Seriously. Go and watch Andor. It proves that good Star Wars content can be made. It has a diverse cast. You just need good writing and a vision. That’s what’s missing from the new content.
But I don't want quality content when I open up a Star Wars series. I want the same old Republic vs Empire setting, some easygoing action with light sabers, bit of humor, a couple of furry characters and plot holes I can drive a truck through.
Edit: make that a barge. I want to drive a barge through not a truck.
I felt like Andor was pretty dang boring... Loved Rogue One, though.
of course the movie franchise about killing space nazis famously had no woke agenda whatsoever until they gave a woman a laser sword
The new show isn't great for reasons other than Disney being woke.
I feel like a lot of "woke" shows are not great, but they get a cult of defenders and haters boosting it's popularity because of some perceived culture war. When it's really just execs trying to make their
milk toastmilquetoast slop shamelessly appeal to a wider audience.No one complains about Spiderverse (after it came out) because it was good
milquetoast btw https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milquetoast
confusing isn't it?
while not movie media, the same can be said with games. BG3 is blatently woke, hell the emperor blatently hits on the player regardless of gender and other elements. Elden Rings mythos is basically full of woke elements (Marika creating Radagon, who is basically herself, but in Male form to get into a romance with Renalla. just on this element alone, it is either considered trans (Marika having a clone who changed genders) or lesbian (if you choose to believe Marika is always female and trans not being a thing) as the relationship with renalla happened.)
while there will be people who will complain about it, if the contents good, people will overlook it.
On the one hand I don't mind some new interesting plots involving same sex partners or similar. However, I agree with you that modern studios are forcing the issue to the point that it ruins everything.
That's great and fine but you can apply this meme to every new show 🤭
There's a pattern.
My entry point into Star Wars was KotOR so I've always been pretty critical of the average Star Wars media. I really enjoyed Rogue One, Andor, Mandalorian S1&2, and Clone Wars S7. Star Wars can deliver sometimes.
With a budget of $180M I was hopeful that Acolyte could be great, and it hasn't delivered yet.
For as schlocky of an adventure the OT and Prequels were, they still drew on real world inspirations. The OT pulls inspiration from WW2 and the Vietnam War as the backdrop, a small rag Tage group of guerilla style freedom fighters fighting off the highly militarized empire with weapons that can destroy entire jungles I mean planets in its path.
The Prequels, for as bad as the dialoge was (because Lucas was surrounded by Yes Men instead of people who actually knew how to cover his weaknesses), was about the decadence of the 80s and the exploitation of the labor of 3rd world countries (see the disparity between Anakin being a slave on Tatooine and Padme being a queen of/senator for Naboo), in phandom menace, which quickly shifted focus to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and how republics, like the Roman Republic, and Weimar Republic became the Roman Empire and Nazi Germany, and how America was following the same path.
And this isn't really some reading between the lines speculation, George Lucas has said that these real world conflicts served as inspiration for the movies. Could it be post hoc rationalization? Yeah it could be, but it's kinda hard to make those justifications even years after the movies have been released.
The sequels just aren't pulling from any relevant sources. It was all nostalgia bait without any substance the first order is literally just Hugo boss wearing good stepping nazis 2.0, aka The Empire Again, the New Republic narratively exists only to be blown up by The Empire 2.0, everything is "Look its just like the Original Trilogy!" and it all lacks a cohesive vision and an actual hero's journey for someone to go through. Like everyone has great setups, a rogue stormtrooper, an ace pilot for the rebellion and a girl who survived childhood gathering scrap from dangerous derelict. And they just all get sidelined for all the nostalgia bait.
in phandom menace, which quickly shifted focus to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and how republics, like the Roman Republic, and Weimar Republic became the Roman Empire and Nazi Germany, and how America was following the same path.
Sir, The Phantom Menace was released in 1999
The first WTC bombing was in 1993, and Oklahoma City was 1995.
America has been on the path for a while though, with the John Birch Society and the like working from the background. They've been around since the 1958, and lots of their literature and networks fostered the turn. Others like Bill Cooper, Alex Jones, etc, were active in the 90s and affected by JBS. Waco also had already ocurred.
OKC has some influences from Cooper, and the JBS and other right wing people initially thought OKC was a huge setback for inroads with general audiences, and kept working to change how people feel. Tea party was a huge comeback for them, as people who knew of the JBS warned the Tea Party was just a resurgence.
I don't know if Lucas or other writers knew at the time, so you might be right. However, there were people warning about it back then, just not really heard or paid much attention to.
The entire paragraph is is about the Prequels, I said phantom menace was about 1980s decadence and the Prequels theme suddenly shifted to post 9/11 and the transition of republics to empires.
And honestly I think it's part of why people leave Phantom Menace off of their watch lists because thematically it doesn't really fit thematically with the other 2 prequel movies.
No, the writing was just bad.
I strongly prefer strong female leads (and my tastes only get more LGBT when it comes to novels), but those movies were terrible. Just horrendous. I still can't bring myself to watch episode 9, or anything star wars since then
I'm not even that big a star wars fan. I love sci-fi and fantasy, because I love the new ideas they contain - star wars was never special to me, it was just good
I'll never forget leaving the theater after episode 7, my whole department took off to see it on release. I just remember everyone being relatively satisfied, even the extreme star wars nerds, but I just looked at my team lead who I shared an office with. .
We used to talk about Star wars all the time, especially the extended universe, but we looked at each other and I saw pain in his expression, and I knew I shared the same look. I don't think we ever spoke about Star wars again
And after episode 8, I now just feel dread when I see a blaster.
It wasn't that nostalgic for me, it wasn't that my standards were unreachable - they were just bad movies.
It also felt unoriginal
The prequels go well with the sequels. Star wars is a story about collapse followed by heros saving the day and it all makes sense. It comes from both a hero's journey and tragic plays. The problem with the new stuff is that they abandoned the old way of story telling. Not only did they fail to come up with a plot more complex than big weapon destroys planet they completely failed to tell it in a way that made me care. It felt cheap despite having a much bigger budget than the original A new hope.
I remember sitting in the theater for Episode VII. I had a sense of excitement because it could be anything. It wasn't an adaption of a book I'd already read, like Game of Thrones. It wasn't a remake, like the Disney live action stuff. It was a reboot, but in a totally new direction since they threw out all the EU stuff.
It was retreaded garbage.
The only movie I've ever been more disappointed in while sitting in the theater was Cowboys and Aliens, because I was so excited for it to be xenomorphs. So sad. But it did cement that I will never trust a movie with old Harrison Ford in it.
After I saw 7, I thought, okay the story is super derivative, but I’m actually connecting with the characters like I used to in the original trilogy. Watching the prequels I was never fooled at any point into thinking these were actual humans on screen, but this time I felt something. So leaving the theater, I thought, well, at worst 8 and 9 will be a lot of fun, if you don’t focus on the plot.
It turned out that a portion of 8 was like that for me (I thought the scenes between Rey and Kylo were very cool) and the rest was stuff I never wanted to see again. And then 9’s plot was nonsensical to the point that I don’t think I’ll ever want to subject myself to it again.
I’ll never ever understand why even the most cynical studio in the world would want 7, 8, and 9 to be made without even a skeleton of a plot drawn out for the whole trilogy before starting on the first movie. It’s absolutely insane to me.
They somehow managed to lose even some of the most dedicated fans.
I love that we still can see a sane take sometimes.
For me the issue is not only the bad writing, but the over saturation of content as well.
There are just too many spinoffs and sequels now, ever since Disney bought the rights. I got bored of The Mandalorian halfway into season 1. Same goes for Obi Wan. Rogue One was great, but I didn't bother with Solo or even Episode IX. Stopped paying attention after that.
The only Star Wars content I'm looking forward to is the remake of Knights of the Old Republic, and only because the original was among the best RPGs I've ever played. Couldn't care less about anything else. Disney killed off my enthusiasm for the franchise. Maybe I just wasn't as much of a fan as I thought I was...
Solo was pretty alright - worth seeing once. And Andor was fantastic.
Seriously, if you like star wars but find everything you've seen under the Disney release umbrella to be underwhelming at best, watch Andor. It is incredible. The worst thing about it is it is proof that good Star Wars content can be made today, and instead all the make is garbage.
"I bypassed the compressor!"
Still sucks that some audience minds associate character to actor a bit too much. Rei's actor didn't do anything wrong, and she deserves future chances.
Star wars, star trek, loads of other shows have suffered the same problem here.
I don't mind female leads or LGBT, or Latin / Asian / African or whatever typenof actors, none of it is a problem, ehy should it be?
I mind when the writing is cringe worthy bad, but I'm supposed to like the show because of reasons like
"the main actor is black, ... AND A WOMAN, gasp!"
or
"But 30 percent of the characters are gay, it MUST be good now, RIGHT?"
or
"That widely know character with a rich and very well defined backstory is now a stone cold murderer AND lesbian, this show rocks!"
I'm tired of existing shoes being ruined this way. You want to make a show where all characters are black transgender women? Go ahead, make a NEW show, leave existing stories alone. If the writing is good, I'll watch it, I don't need a brave gay black Winnie Pooh.
But that won't happen, because they'll take an existing show, shoehorn in a whole bunch of check boxes, black check, gay check, ooohhh bisexual check! And that's it. Writing? Oh yeah, sure, we'll have someone throw up over paper and we'll use that because we have all the checkboxes, we gon be great!
And another show lies ruined.
The less said about the sequel trilogy, the better, but do yourself a favour and don't miss out on watching Andor just because of the movies. That show is just really good and also incidentally Star Wars.
The bad batch is apparently also great, along with the latest clone war seasons (according to my friend at least)
I'm just not ready... Seeing Star wars just fills me with negative feelings. I hope I'll get there one day - I loved the EU and the more they accept back into cannon the more I want to get back into it... But I just can't give it another chance yet
Wasn't the writing always bad though? (I might be biased, I never liked Star Wars.)
The dialog was always mediocre to bad, but otherwise the writing was pretty good. Characters had growth arcs, acted in understandable ways given their characterization.
The original trilogy was hero's journey stuff, mythology for a modern age. Episode 6 was the weakest, though.
The prequel trilogy was an envisioned world - for all of its writing weaknesses, it felt like a living, breathing universe.
The sequel trilogy was lifeless. 7 was an okay start, and I actually quite enjoyed it despite being derivative, but 8 was muddled trash (how many times did Poe commit mutiny while they were doing the slow-mo chase?) and 9 was dreadfully mediocre.
And this is coming from someone who loves many of the spin-off media on their own merits, many even more than I love the prequel trilogy.
It's not nostalgia. Some of us just genuinely dislike how shit the sequel trilogy was, and how bad they did our boy John Boyega after episode 7.
And the problem is not even the corporate wokeism (although it's feels about as insincere as all of the current corporate wokewashing) it's just... bad writing. "Lifeless" is absolutely on point as a description for the sequels. It felt like they only existed to yank my nostalgia while at the same time trying to do so with less thought and love poured into them. Plastic, lifeless, sanitized, insincere, corporate profit driven nostalgia-fodder CAN NOT compare to simply good writing, actors with chemistry and sincerity.
I watched 7, suffered through 8 and didn't even care about watching 9. Yes, I am nostalgic, but that's precisely what the sequels were created to evoke. But just nostalgia isn't enough!
Like you, I really enjoyed most of the spin-offs. They had a story to tell and they had direction, believable characters and did not feel like just trying to yank my nostalgia for the original trilogy. I mean... they DID yank my nostalgia, but then they went above and beyond that and told interesting stories.
I watched 7, suffered through 8 and didn't even care about watching 9.
I almost didn't watch 9. Then a friend of mine who'd walked out of the theater while watching 8 told me 9 was actually good. So I took his word for it. Episode 9 was okay. Not good or bad. Felt like they were trying to cram two movies into one. But, without getting into spoilers, compared to 8, 9 was still okay.
Hot take: Star Wars is not sci fi. It’s space western at best.
The originals were fantasy. I's not a hot take, it's fact - Swords, wizards, castles, knights, the heros journey. Some of the other shows and media since departed from that. Mandelorean is a western, solo was a heist movie, and most the shows don't fit the fantasy tropes that well. None of Star wars, to my knowledge, fits sci fi at all.
The Thrawn book trilogies are probably the closest I've found to Star Wars being sci fi. There is a specific focus on real world physics in a way that is very absent from everything else Star Wars especially when they write about space battles. Only things that stay firmly fantasy and require that suspension of disbelief are, of course, the Force and Thrawns preternatural ability to read an enemy's battle tactics from their species artwork
Mandelorean is a western
It nakedly and obviously cribs from Seven Samurai, The Good The Bad And the Ugly, and Wolf and Cub.
It very much sci-fi fantasy. It's the tech level, availability, and the fact that universe used is literally a galaxy where people actually travel to other galaxies (using spaceships with some very fictional abilities). Kamino is in a minor galaxy that is close by and you see Luke and Leia on a ship with a unspecified galaxy out the view port in the background.
Other tech that puts it into sci-fi: controlled plasma blades, neurally connected prosthetics, bacta, droids, weapons with stun and kill, repulsors, reactors for personal ships, energy shields, hyperdrive, industrial cloning.
I'm sure there are other good examples as to why it qualifies as science fiction. If Star Wars isn't in a sci-fi genre, then Star Trek is a political drama.
To me, Star Wars is a fairy tale in space.
arguably the space part makes it sci fi
Star Wars belongs firmly in the "science fantasy" category; it's a work that draws on both sci-fi and fantasy tropes.
Star Wars isn't bad because of "woke" inclusivity. It's bad because the people who were supposed to be responsible for carefully curating and engineering both the past and future lore of the universe were at the very best taking a maverick approach to storytelling and at worst actively trying to to sabotage the canon for the sake of their own selfish artistic pursuits.
I don't dislike the nu-trilogy because it makes an effort to include women and minorities in leading roles. I dislike it because it's an incoherent mess of a story that doesn't mesh at all with what came before it, and the only thing holding it together is the veneer of Star Wars, but only the parts that made Star Wars iconic and not necessarily the ones that made Star Wars good.
Yep. No one disagrees. The meme makes a point because it could be trotted out for ever single new release. Including back to the sequels.
No one says it about Andor though. Star Wars really is bad now. Your meme is saying that Star Wars is just as good as it ever was and we’re wrong for pointing out that it’s bad. But it is bad. And it didn’t used to be.
They took the never tell me the odds two seriously
No I miss old star wars content. Specifically where Luke and Leia make out and where exactly George was going with that shit.
Jokes aside, pronouns is the dumbest possible hill to die on with regards to the starwars universe. OF COURSE gender is going to work differently when you put a bunch of wildly different species together. Gender dimorphism is not some universal rule the rest of the galaxy has to follow. Hell, sexual dimorphism isn't even universal ON EARTH. why the fuck wouldn't you run into a them or xir every now and then? What about those bug people from clone wars? You think bug people are gonna have mommies and daddies or what?
It does feel a little unnatural when they force the inclusion of some lesbian couple for the sake of inclusion. I don't have a problem with that but don't force it. Let the story develop over time where it feels natural. You don't see rushed straight relationships in Hollywood.
You don’t see rushed straight relationships in Hollywood.
You may want to sit down now, because if you like, I can gather a list of all movies whose script contains the line
"and then the hero gets the girl despite there being no perceivable chemistry or other factors they have in common except him being the main character and her being The GirlTM in the movie. They kiss. The End."
Why does every idiot who is not a Star Wars fan think that repeating the normie stereotype about it is very smart? Which is this pic BTW.
Star Wars since the OT and till around 2006 had very clear borders between, 1, that which doesn't get mentioned, but follows from what's shown, 2, that which doesn't get explained, 3, that which is explained by magic, 4, that which has decent, but very roughly cut sci-fi descriptions and, finally, 5, that which is taken seriously.
Disney doesn't understand how to use any of these categories, especially that core plot points can only belong to #5, that #1 is not just fan imagination, but part of the paradigm, that #2 is not a box for everything lazy, that #3 cannot be center of the plot, and that #4 is still necessary.
To answer your first sentence. Perhaps it to try and show an interest in something you like.
Yes, only it's generally unpleasant to say condescending stuff of the "I've got you figured out and I see this thing deeper than you" kind to someone who's very well familiar with the thing in question when you are not.
And in personal experience
to try and show an interest in something you like
people ask questions.
I just wanted to see Luke in the role of obi wan or Yoda after decades of Jedi training be a hero and pass on his legacy by training the next generation. But I would have been ok with one heroic lightsaber battle, and a reunion with han, chewy and Leia.
Watching the last Jedi and seeing someone who tossed his blade away because he saw the good in essentially "Space Hitler" try to kill his own nephew because he was having a nightmare so out of character. Then having him overdose on the force and die like a chump, broke me. I left the theater in silence. The last Jedi is also the only star wars movie with out a light saber fight. No blades ever touched.
Watched Episode 7 yesterday.
That was from 2015??? Nearly 10 years ago, which is completely crazy.
Really interesting how it is newer than Episode 3, but uses all of the Episode 4-6 style.
The music sucks, but the visuals are very nice. I love how they made the Lightsabers and Guns so much more realistic.
I remember episode 8 or 9? Where literally every scene was stolen from Clone Wars. That was a bit lame.
Also crazy how their cast is still 80% male. I always wonder if people would be shocked if it was 80% female...
The music sucks
You take that back. John Williams is an international treasure, and the only aspect which was consistently good throughout all nine films. Rey's theme, March of the Resistance, and Jedi Steps and Finale were all stellar in my opinion.
It was clearly phoned in work that leaned heavily on previous themes.
Sorry I overthink it. Just the general impression was... kinda random?
Like many tracks in important moments were not memorable at all.
Omg
Force Awakens will be closer to Revenge of the Sith next year
I do miss being younger and happier.
Why do people defending Star Wars keep shitting on sci-fi and fantasy? "It's just a movie about space wizards with laser swords" they say, as though having fantastical elements negates all criticism.
The original trilogy isn't schlock. It's fun, relatively lighthearted adventure in a fantastical setting. It has its flaws, but there is genuine artistry there, and it resonates with people because of that.
And even if I am looking at classic Star Wars through nostalgia goggles, that doesn't invalidate criticism of new Star Wars stuff. Rise of Skywalker is a train wreck of a movie all by itself, no comparison needed.
Star Wars is now the schlocky, uninspired, cheesy “sci-fi” that the original Star Wars killed by changing the whole genre back in 1977. It’s time that the next George Lucas emerges and ends the travesty that is Disney SW. I don’t see it happening with the risk-adversity of modern Hollywood.
I mean, George could't even edit his first film right and got way too much help from who was around him. When he got famous and nobody could talk down to him his movies got meh at best... and jar jar at worst
How is star wars woke. Woke is a social construct conservative people use.
That's the joke. It's not really a criticism. It basically implies Peter is being racist.
Woke is a social construct conservative people use.
My dude, Woke is a concept that the culture wars have stolen and mangled. It goes back over a hundred years.
And you won't be surprised at all regarding who they stole it from.
How a Black activist watchword got co-opted in the culture war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke#Origins_and_usage
Edited to confess I don't use it in the original context either. I use it like the article mentions near the end:
"People today who identify as woke see themselves as having been awakened to a new set of ideas, value systems, and knowledge”
I don't actually use it out loud (primarily because of what conservatives have done to the word), but yeah, once you start looking behind the curtain, it's hard to view it any other way but as an awakening.
I suppose it would be a very boring movie if all actors were just asleep the whole time.
Bold of you to assume we were ever happier.
Solo had L3-37 who was presented as being a self made individual literally and she was also humanized with her body and movement being less stuffy and robotic and more human. I remember people complaining she was woke.
Maybe it's woke to advocate for someone having equal rights or wanting to be viewed equal to people when the story presents her as someone who is self-aware, capable of emotions, and desires freedom. She certainly uses a lot of terms that I guess people who are worried about wokeness might find off-putting.
BUT, here's the thing most of the time when she says that she wants fair treatment or equal rights it's presented as a joke. Even her losing her body and the ability to freely move and pursue her own goals is treated as something of a happy ending. Remember the whole movie where she said she wants freedom and autonomy and how she's a self made droid? Well now she's shackled inside a computer with no ability to escape, but it's a happy ending because the audience wasn't meant to take her seriously.
So in that the context of Solo the people who were complaining about wokeness were missing the forest through the trees, when the only messaging that could really be considered "woke" was something that was treated as a joke in the movie. I wouldn't be surprised if people complaining about wokeness are just people who are upset if minorities or gay people exist and they use the term to hide behind and avoid outright saying it
(I'm aware that there's more Star Wars than just Solo, but I haven't seen all the new stuff and was mostly using it as an example)
Solo had a robot named leet? How did I miss that...
Probably because it was abbreviated "L3" or "Elthree" in the "Solo" movie.
Science fiction is primarily a form of social critique and commentary, according to the Titan, Professor Isaac Asimov.
Coming from a childhood raised in the deeply conservative Southeastern USA, SW felt like a validation of belief in religious magic, patriarchal paternalism, and accessible exceptionalism from hard work.
Before the information age, these ideas were far less clearly false. Now I see the parallel in religion as a toxic dead mythos, misogyny in western culture, and propaganda of a feudal death of democracy.
While I long for the nostalgia of the past, shinning a more modern perspective on that past reveals hideous flaws. The framework is dead to me, but admitting such a reality to myself is to give up a part of my childhood.
Andor is not on the same level as acolyte and it's not even close.
There's just so much shit now it's what you've gotten used to.
That said, yes, the prequels and it had their issues but they're still enjoyable. Acolyte on the other hand is a dumpster fire. I swear it was written by an ai, pretty much every element has been seen in Star wars before if you strip away the names.
I like campy star wars but at least come up with something new
It’s like a large language model, it rhymes.
The goal was to make a Flash Gordon adaptation. So objectively, this is a failure. A very cool one
Dodging the question
Eh you can apply this argument to a lot of propertys like why do like lotr it's just fantasy shlop why do you enjoy kill la kill it's just anime shlop why do you enjoy saving private Ryan it's just history shlop the point of good fiction is that it brings you to a different reality but because our reality has rules and logic most people enjoy fantasy that also has rules and logic and it's believable as a alternative reality just because you don't find a fantasy interesting doesn't give you the high ground to call people who enjoy the fiction you don't like
I still haven’t forgiven Peter Jackson for doing Bombadill dirty like that.
Also the scourging of the shire.
Old Star Wars: Jedi is all about training, discipline, and resist temptations.
Disney's Star Wars: FAT JEDI.
This unrealistic hypothetical includes way too much reasoning attempted with the "woke agenda" guy...
Thrawn though that's some Dad energy shlock
Harry, only a sith deals in absolutes. What I have told you is true, from a certain point of view. And always remember that my allegiance is to the truthful star wars, to democracy!
I am so confused
Possibly
Well, George Lucas has been gaslighting us about the OT for decades
Imagine your kid watches Return of the Jedi and asks: "Why did they make every ship's computer so primitive when they could apparently do CGI characters back then?" That will make you feel old.
My theory as a non Star Wars fan (please don’t ban me, your memes are too good!), is that Star Wars was kind of a right time and place kind of thing.
It worked because of the state of things in the late 70s, when things were going in the wrong direction and it was rather obvious which was a new thing in the world.
So Star Wars and the whole struggle with a comically obvious evil side (which what kills it for me as a 90s kid) is a critique of the time.
It's Fantasy, not Sci-Fi.
Define woke in this meme cos woke means multiple thibgs to multiple people.
Disney has ruined star wars if that because of a woke agenda or just shit writing it depends on ur definition of woke.
Star Wars was good when kids were playing with their toys.
It's a toy franchise with feature-length advertisements. Always has been.
Both are true
Disney is shit, star wars was never good
Hate the truth however much you want, it'll still be valid tomorrow morning also.
As the saying goes, go woke, go broke. That's law.
I wish one time someone who hates all the newer stuff would give a real reason why and not some lame blanket statement about it. I liked some of the new movies well enough even though I was a adult when they came out. Sure the first three were great when you were a kid. I'm seen that same look though on kids watching the new stuff. The new ones are their star wars.
What a bunch of whiny children.
The original trilogy were fun adventure that had really solid special effects for their time, quotable lines, memorable characters, and yes were just new and fresh takes on existing stories like everythibg is.
The new movies lean way too hard into nostalgia for nostalgia's sake instead while also contradicting a lot of the established world building of the original movies without more than one or two memorable characters. They spend way too much time talking about the macguffins instwad of using them to advance the plot, have special effects sequences that drag on too long which makes them tedious instead of tense and exciting. They waste leading characters by setting up some interesting possibilities that could be explored, like a stormtrooper who deserted or the knight of Ren, both of which were introduced at the start of Ep 7, then drop them to spend time on macguffins leading to new macguffins like the stupid sith dagger bullshit that made zero sense.
The sequel trilogy starts with a rehash of the original trilogy, but a worse story and with better special effects. It isn't memorable and then two incoherent movies that dropped the interesting parts of ep 7 to waste time on pointless spectacle.
Rogue One had the style of the first films down, but didn't pull off being memorable. I put it third after Empire Strikes back and A New Hope.
None of this is to say the original trilogy is perfect or anything, it is just more fun to watch and quote and that is what is important with adventure stories. Spectacle doesn't matter when the story sets up something interesting and then forgets about it.
As succinctly as possible:
Disney paid a billion dollars for a franchise people cared about. It doesn't matter what the franchise was or anything else, what mattered is that people cared and many considered it to be culturally significant.
Disney then made a trilogy without a long term plan other than "make a trilogy".
The writing was at best lackluster, at worst laughable. Specific examples abound ("somehow, Palpatine returned") but the major problems are that the core conflict of the middle film of the trilogy was contrived and the third film then had to scramble to cover the glaring, obvious problems. This writing issue eclipses other (still very serious) problems like a lack of character development with the main character, setups without payoffs, and trivializing or bastardizing supporting characters.
When episode 2 was released I have already read at least 10 books from the star wars universe. Chronologically before episode 1 and after episode 6.
The authors of these books exchanged concepts, aligned the universe across ther works and put care into consistencz between different reads. They probably even questioned george lucas about the possible future.
And then there came disney, dumped across years of work and didn't bother to align anything. This is why they suck hardcore to me. And then these films are dump and just money-grabbing machines.
Fuck everything since disney. They simply suck hardcore.
If you hate the movies because they don't respect the lore, I'm sorry to say I don't think your opinion really matters.
To explain why, I'll share my own experience. I am a massive fan of Dune, I've read the series multiple times and consider it my favourite art/series/thing. I kind of hated the recent movies because in my opinion they didn't understand the source material and adapted it in a way that ruined what made the books so amazing to me. I couldn't separate the movies from the books and it ruined my experience of watching the movies.
My point is that if you are so invested in the lore and backstory, you're probably not able to assess the movies on their own merit. The prequels are god awful movies and you seem to have no issue with them.
BTW I'm not defending the sequels at all except to say that I thought FA was a fine movie.
Here ya go. This goes into great and specific detail about why the original movies are much better movies than the newer ones
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D&index=1&pp=iAQB
I like how you're getting downvoted because it kind of puts your point on display. I am by no means fond of the sequel trilogy, but I certainly agree that there is a generational preference based on which movies you grew up with.
This is why they are being downvoted.
I wish one time someone who hates all the newer stuff would give a real reason why and not some lame blanket statement about it.
Plenty of people have given real reasons that aren't blanket statements. Some people have soent way more time than the movies deserve pointing out the issues with the new movies.
Heck, I spent a few minutes making a comment as a reply to theirs covering the basic issues that is far more than a blanket statement, and that was just the objectively bad stuff that I remembered off the top of my head.
