Wait, that's actually a real poster? What. The. Fuck.
Yea, both were drunk but fuck Jake and his rights because he has the penis.
I can understand and appreciate the intentions, but there are few things worse than good intentions without intelligence, flexibility and nuance, as the statements below seem accurate and feel utterly screwed up:
He got drunk and had sex with a woman - HE goes to jail.
She got drunk and had sex with a man - HE goes to jail.It's almost like what Public Enemy said in "Fear Of A Black Planet":
Black man, black woman - black baby
White man, black woman - black baby
Black man, white woman - black babyah, yes.
a simpler time when one is EASILY identified either by penis OR vagina ONLY.
unlike today.
^/j
Rape charges don’t materialize from thin air. If she reported it then yes, fuck Jake not because of his penis, but because he did not obtain consent.
For some reason this thread has become chock full of people who seem to think men can do no wrong and “equality” means charging both people for rape even though only one of them felt they were assaulted. It’s understandable considering the demographics of the internet and social media sites like lemmy in general (often young men, teenagers, etc). But this is what the poster is talking about — you continue to make assumptions about what this woman has decided to do and consent to, when you have no right to those assumptions because she is intoxicated. It’s incredibly simple, but this thread is blinded by “woman bad” rhetoric around rape charges.
If you don’t rape, you won’t be in this situation. No ifs ands or buts about it. You can argue with me all you want, you can call me crazy all you want, it doesn’t change the fact I am right. Whining and crying about the unfairness of the courts when it comes to assault charges is a cringey position to take. Do better.
I mean, it is more than a bit sexist but... that is probably the demographic who need to understand this in a college environment.
Consent is incredibly important and a LOT of media for the past few decades shat on it. No, I don't (just) mean how basically every movie in the 80s was about raping people. I mean even "Okay, what if we got you/her drunk?" and so forth. I want to say even Friends and Seinfeld played the idea of one of the guys getting their girlfriend drunk for laughs (well, I think Jerry used turkey?).
Reminding people "that is a crime and you can go to jail" is important... even if people rapidly learn that rich white guys never go to jail.
Yes this actually was a thing for many years. They actually made women into children and men the only responsible party.
To be fair there aren't many restrictions on what can be on a poster
On my new poster "RagingRobot. Pedophile or Saint you choose. Detach below."
I'm not a law talking guy, this isn't the law, and it isn't ethical best practice but it might help people understand the reasonableness of the poster.
I believe it's true that drunk people can't consent. I think that what juries are likely to actually care about is the question:
Did the accused have the reasonable belief that the plaintiff would consent to sex while sober?
If you're in a police interview or a trial and are asked:
What made you think the plaintiff consented to your actions?
And all you can say without perjuring yourself is:
I vaguely recall that they seemed kinda into it, and they didn't say no, oh! and they didn't fight back.
You're going to have a bad time. ESPECIALLY if you've been drinking, because it will be easier to question the reasonableness of your belief in their consent.
This poster is clearly meant for a place similar to a university dormitory.
This poster is bad because: it makes the law seem lopsided, and perpetuates sexist ideas about gender and sex.
The poster is good because: unfortunately, too many men think that if a girl is drunk at a place where he thinks the girls are looking for drunk hookups, that she consents to whatever she doesn't fight (and maybe more). Too many men misunderstand consent and have dangerous ideas about what women really want. It's much better they be scared into over thinking whether they're risking arrest than that they rape somebody.
Obviously more nuance is good, but if you're trying to stop drunk 18 year olds from raping/being raped, taping up a poster like this in the stairwell is more effective than taping up an essay.
Let me slide in here and say absolutely not to one key point here. If you are in a law office or a trial and you are asked anything, especially regarding something as serious as a rape accusation, you say absolutely nothing, you shut the fuck up and let your attorney do the talking.
Yeah fair, I mean I think I implied you shouldn't say the quote.
Don't talk to police.
Unless you're a rapist, in which case please tell them all about how she has to be held responsible for her decision to get blackout drunk and seduce you. And how she definitely wanted it because she didn't say no. It will really help you get them on your side. The police are all good ol' boys, they'll totally get it. "Women ☕️", "boys will be boys".
I think the issue with this poster is that it's SO lopsided that it doesn't make any sense. They're outlining a very specific scenario that implies that only males can rape, and that males are more capable of decision making when drunk than females. It's simultaneously misogynist and misandrist.
A much better take on a college campus night be to illustrate different levels of drunkenness. Alice was sloshed and Bob was tipsy. Or illustrate that the same quantity of alcohol can lead to vastly different levels of intoxication. Alice and Bob both had 3 drinks. Alice is sloshed, bob is tipsy.
As is, if I had seen this poster during any developmental years I'd have written it off as bs propaganda and done what I was gonna do anyway. Fortunately, that's not-raping in my case, but for some people, it may be a bit blurrier. And, at worst, some people may see this, see how horribly lopsided it is, and decide it MUST be full of shit and do the opposite.
I'll grant that the poster is lopsided and misogynist. Maybe it's also misandrist.
I think people are getting confused because they think the poster is saying "this is how you should treat women". It's actually more like "You should know that this is how police will treat you".
And, at worst, some people may see this, see how horribly lopsided it is, and decide it MUST be full of shit and do the opposite.
I wish I had enough confidence in humanity to disagree.
So does this mean I can get out of a bad used car deal by drinking before signing the contracts?
You can't fire me for being late to work, I was drunk!
Let me know.
How not to rape someone 101:
"can I _____?"
"Would you like to ___?"
That it. That's all there is too it.
I probably err too much on the side of caution with stuff but when I'm on a date with someone if it's going well I I always just ask point blank if can kiss them like I'm proposing an update to their insurance policy.
By and large women... Appreciate and hate it. They want you to just know what to do and when without the unsexy as hell approach I take, but they understand why and are glad that you're doing that over the alternative pushy stuff they tend to run into.
one time it turned what I thought was a surefire yes into a no but I'll take it over the horrific consequences of not reading the room correctly.
The exception is group sex. If I think some wild shit is going to down I'm doing the naked man. Ik 2 for 2 there.
There are times I absoultely would not have sex with someone sober.
That's pretty much the reason I drink, to be more fun, to let loose and be less socially awkward.
I bet the majority of women I slept with I wouldn't have done it sober. Hell some of then I had sex with twice haha. I really don't understand this argument.
There's been several women in my past that I only slept with because they spent the night pouring drinks in me because I was too shy/socially awkward to make a move. By the logic of this poster (if it was consistent between genders) they raped me, and I don't feel that way at all. There's such a huge gray area around the whole "sex while drunk" thing that makes it really hard to resolve sometimes. Obviously someone getting someone who's previously said "No" drunk in order take advantage of them is wrong but that's hardly the only scenario.
Males can consent while drunk, females can't.. bullshit it isn't equal.
Hear me out here: this is a case for feminism. Real feminism, with equality as its goal, not the mockery that gets created and elevated by the stupid fucking culture wars. It's not that men can consent while drunk. It's that men can't ever not consent, and it comes from the deep-seated misogynist idea that men are dumb animals that would fuck a hole in the wall and aren't responsible for their actions. In a lot of cases that "boys will be boys" line of reasoning is used to limit men's exposure to repercussions for sexual misconduct, but the relatively new phenomenon of filing rape charges when the woman is intoxicated has taken that abhorrent stereotype and turned it into the idea that women can't consent while drunk but men can because, again, men can't ever not consent.
I hate how this also manages to objectify women.
So what if it's two men? Or two women?
Typically, the one doing the penetrating is charged. Not always, there are cases of heterosexual rape where the woman is the aggressor. These posters are from a not-too-distant past where only men raped only women. If it was 2 guys, it was just weird gay stuff. Girl was the aggressor...guy should feel lucky. 2 girls; "nice."
Girl was the aggressor...guy should feel lucky.
And if he didn't, he must be gay. Yeah, those were harsh words for a 15 year old in 1990...
Index out of bounds exception
The universe collapses in on itself, turning into a supermassive ultrablack hole
I believe that's in the Bible.
Then the manliest one is charged. If no man is found there is no crime
It's hotter
I don't think these were legally binding posters. I'm not sure you'd get super far if even one person was drunk in court, unless they were literally blackout drunk and you had video evidence of it (or you were black of course).
If Josie killed someone while being drunk, would that mean she should get a lower sentence because she cannot be held responsible for her actions while intoxicated?
Only if the other person was also drunk.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/intoxication
It can be used as a defense to some extent in most places. Most places have multiple levels of “killing a person” crimes. Typically first degree murder is premeditated, second degree murder has some element of mental or emotional disability, and manslaughter is a step above an accident.
Mothers against drunk drivers has been lobbying to increase the penalties for drunken homicides.
If she's in a car, isn't that exactly how it works?
Yeah, but how can she even consent to driving a car at that point if she is already drunk and not able to make decisions herself?
Why does this only apply to women though?
You and your silly questions
Have you ever heard of a man raped by a woman? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but people don't talk about it.
So according to this, every time a lady and I hook up after a few drinks it's rape? The fuck?
Only if you're male.
Technically yes I guess.. hmm. I wonder if there was a lady rapist who went around and raped drunk men could she get them sent to jail too?
I mean, many cases where girls straight up lied and ruined a man's entire life, got them sent to prison, and only YEARS later they admitted to their lies, so really as far as the law is concerned they just want a quick trial (because asking them to do their fucking job is a lot apparently)
Only if you’re a misogynist.
ETA: seems I clicked on the wrong comment to respond to, I did not intend to post here.
It is if you guessed wrong. The short answer is, don't have sex with somebody unless you're absolutely sure they would want to sober. At the end of the day you're responsible for your own judgement and if you guess wrong, it doesn't matter that you intended for there to be consent, you're still responsible.
I’m impressed you were able to type out so many words without actually saying jack shit.
I feel like we need some kind of gradient between "rape" and what you're describing. Some kind of protection in place for inebriated people who later, sober, regret the decision, but doesn't immediately result in such a heavy charge.
The truth is that both sides happen. Drunk people sometimes can consent, drunkenness is a broad spectrum. And drunk people also sometimes cannot consent. Right now the more morally correct stance, in my opinion, is to go full tilt into the "drunk people can't consent" camp and charge both parties, but there almost has to be an intermediate we could apply, no?
To be clear, I'm not a lawyer. I don't exactly know how these cases tend to be tried. I'm basing that on a bit of a layman's understanding.
This poster is so old, it probably from the 1990's
Yes, it is dumb. Yes it is sexist. But it is not the consensus of society. Not by a long shot.
That doesn't prevent incels from bringing it up every time some women thinks they are a creep, just so they can hate on how "disadvantaged we males are compared to women" and how "any type of relationship with women are bound to be awful for the man".
Both sexes have advantages and disadvantages. Whining about this same issue over and over without actually doing something about it isn't helping anything. And neither is blaming the opposite sex.
It didn't look to be from the 90s to me so I searched and it's from 2008
Source is this paper about the poster: Jake and Josie Get Drunk and Hook Up: An Exploration of Mutual Intoxication and Sexual Assault
My mother was a sexual assault response coordinator (SARC) for the military in the early aughts. This led to some really weird situations for us as a family, like having to pretend we didn't know why this strange woman who wasn't here when we went to bed last night is now having breakfast with us. The worst one was probably when it was a friend of mine having breakfast with us. Anyway, my mother really impressed on me that it did not matter if the woman initiated, if I was drunk as well, that I should not, under any circumstances, engage in drunken hookups. I disagree that when two drunk (hetero) people have sex, the man is automatically a rapist. But at the end of the day, my opinion doesn't matter. The law does. Keep this in mind, fellas, get her number instead. The risk ain't worth it.
This is the best advice in this whole thread:
I should not, under any circumstances, engage in drunken hookups. I disagree that when two drunk (hetero) people have sex, the man is automatically a rapist. But at the end of the day, my opinion doesn’t matter. The law does. Keep this in mind, fellas, get her number instead. The risk ain’t worth it.
Like the debate about consent while intoxicated is a complex one, but none of it really matters because drunken hookups are a huge risk regardless. Even if there's no "rape" there's an enormous potential for regret.
it did not matter if the woman initiated...
At risk of sounding stereotypically queer, the whole gender norms and roles thing between straight people just sounds so insanely outdated each year that passes. Yes, 1 in 4 women are SA at the college I attended. But there was also the statistic that 1 in 10 men are also SA. That's a hell of a lot of people in a class of 30, for both statistics. And that was info distributed in 2023.
I've heard of friends of friends (men) getting held down and raped by other people in a hotel hallway and being too afraid to get tested, call the police, or even come forward because they are so fearful of being accused of being gay and then being ostracized by society. Being victims of SA is an equal opportunity event. It feels so odd that in the straight world, things still seem so...one dimensional. It can (and does) happen to anyone. It feels like everyone is just holding their breath while crazy, horrible stuff happens.
I'm largely straight (hetero flexible tends to be what I'd say if you asked) and I agree that the straights are not ok 😂
This is such bullshit. What happens if she is the one raping? She's excused and guy is still guilty? Moronic.
It's a warning not legal advice
If that were the case, different wording would go much further in relaying a message. Something like "Guys, legal system doesn't like you. On average sentences to men are longer to that of a woman. Women don't really need an evidence of rape for you to be sentenced for it and spend decades in jail for crime you didn't do. Child custody is far more frequently awarded to women even if they are the worse choice. Even if you are not the father you might get forced to pay
alimonychild support until proven otherwise, after which no money will be returned. Masturbate, it's easier and safer." I'd say that's far better warning.
Which makes it good advice for men, and therefore a useful poster, does it not?
No, because it reinforces the idea that women arent capable of rape like men are. Women rape too, and while it may not be as common it is still just as horrific.
You’re looking back to when society wasn’t “woke” and complaining that you’re not being included?
You dumb incels need to pick a proper lane.
If you think problem doesn't exist if you pretend it doesn't exist then you have developmental issues or are 2 years old.
Do you apply this same logic to slavery and child marriages? “No, you have to look at the context! Owning slaves was legal back then!”
Get the fuck outta here with your bullshit.
Drunk people can consent. Being drunk doesn't make you do things you don't want to do. It's not a magic potion for fuck sake
Drunk people can consent.
They can consent, but they can also not consent. And that's part of the problem.
Being drunk doesn’t make you do things you don’t want to do.
If you and a sexy person enter a room together, drunk, and that person puts a $1000 charge on your credit card, do we assume that the charge was consensual simply because you were too inebriated to coherently object?
Assuming the answer is "No", why would the standard be different for sex?
Given this poster is over 15 years old and only a handful were printed, I'm gonna guess no.
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/anti-rape-poster-reddit-conversations/
As a 53 yo male, this poster makes me angry.
It was one of twenty posted in a small college in 2008 and discontinued shortly after.
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/anti-rape-poster-reddit-conversations/
You're angry because you're easy to manipulate, at least on this topic.
They know their audience.
No I’m not easy to manipulate. I’m angry because men usually get labeled the aggressor and that is not always the case. I was mentally abused by a previous wife for many years. Men of my gen were taught very early on that WE are the strong ones and that women are frail and not capable of this behavior. If we’re abused it’s because we are weak.
In this poster the women COULD the aggressor but it was perfectly acceptable to just ASSUME it was the man. Women are just as capable of being evil.
The poster is funny, but apart of the outrage that is causes by some, I think that it could trigger a good discussion.
For instance about how toxic masculinity also hurts men. Under that men are considered weak if they cry and should consider themselves be 'lucky' when they are raped.
And how feminism can help against this as well.
What if we're both alcoholics that are always drunk?
no sex for you
Download Grindr
Dunno about that, friend. I see far more meth use on Grindr around here than I do alcohol use.
Like, I had to put in my profile "No tweakers. You aren't hiding it, and I'll be able to tell."
If you enter into a binding contract with someone while they are intoxicated to the point of impairment, the contract can be invalidated on those grounds as long as impairment can be proven in a court.
You can't give reasonable consent while impaired. If it can be further demonstrated that one party intentionally attempted to induce intoxication for the purposes of attaining contractual consent, they can be held criminally liable for that act.
Consent isn't only about sex. It's much murkier and dubious in cases of mutual intoxication and interpersonal relations. This poster is simply trying to make people aware of fairly basic laws regarding consent in the United States. And it's worth knowing.
Men generally have a higher tolerance for alcohol than women even if they are equal height and weight due to differences in alcohol metabolism. There's perhaps some embedded sexism in this poster's standards, but it's better to be informed than incarcerated.
Men also drink more than women. I've seen way more drunk men than women.
This poster implies that women become mindless defenseless fuckdolls after a few drinks while men become sexual predators without any impairments. And that's just stupid.
I am never buying a car sober again! "This one trick car dealers hate"
Trying buying a car with financing while demonstrably drunk and see how far you get. 😆
God damnit Josie, put that pussycat away
Can I buy this poster? I want to hang it up so people can laugh at it when they visit.
It's so fucking stupid.
A man can't consent when he's drunk either.
This is why I always say that women have a huge advantage over men in any conflict like this.
If you don't believe me...Well, when female teachers rape their male students, nothing happens, same crime committed by a male teacher, instantly sends that male teacher to jail.
Bullshit.
For one thing, they're arrested all the time and a Google would have shown you that.
For another, this poster was from 2008 and discontinued quickly.
https://www.dailydot.com/irl/anti-rape-poster-reddit-conversations/
Yeah that's not true. Female teachers absolutely go to prison for that.
Yep, there used to be truth to it, and there still is work to do, but a lot has changed in the last decade or so.
Its funny how we can, in fact, recognize an obvious power imbalance with age or bureaucratic station.
Sure he can.
“Hon, I had too much to drenk but I’m horny. Can you strahp me in?”
WTF ? Is this real ? Poor kid
It’s a joke in the same vein as Obviousplant. bonus
Based on that eye contact I think I might be Jake's next victim.
A lot of discussion in this thread, but this depends on many things. I already blacked out from drinking and would hate if somebody did something to me. But there are other levels of drunkenness, and you can also read the other person's mood, their movement, their agreement towards getting physical, and judge who is the more sober of the two, and try to communicate these things.
Basically Michael Cera in Superbad.
Jake deserves prison for drinking cocktails
Shame they made Margarita sex a crime.
Yes because the worst thing in life to happen to a person is to be sued.
No they don't make them. Paul Rudd has gone onto bigger and better things
These are definitely real if you're saying otherwise. I saw them posted all over the college I went to back in 2012 2013ish
You went to coastal carolina university in 2008, which is the when/where this poster was last made?
I was just joking that it looks like Paul Rudd's first acting job
This is why consent agreements will become the norm for hooking up. They already exist.
Honestly I'm for it all. Killing all mood means less humans. anymous and hostility between the sexes means less humans, and the less humans the better for the Earth and all other life on it.
Man, that is one of the most depressing views of life I've ever seen. Most people go for either "hedonism is fine because life is hard and people suck" or "life is so great on its own that you should restrict the amount of pleasure seeking behavior you engage in".
You've managed to take the shitty parts of both of those philosophies and combine them into a stew of cynicism and self loathing. That's honestly pretty impressive from a psychological perspective.
My life has taught me from a very young age that if I expect the worst from my species based on experience, I'll be correct 99 times out of a hundred and spare myself a lot of shock and disappointment. World history only reinforces this.
I made a deal with myself a long time ago, my core value is the pursuit of truth over blissful ignorance. And the truth is, we have very few positive traits, at least ones that our various societies bother to nurture in anything but empty rhetoric. Given that reality, I choose not to delude myself into rooting for the home team just because it's the home team. Humanity is welcome to surprise and humble me in all of this, but it's going the opposite direction.
Can't hold someone to a contract they signed drunk.
Waste of paper and ink.
I mean... having a discussion about what you are going to do, what your boundaries are, and what turns you on is a really mature and, honestly, sexy thing to do.
I've had a few hook ups over the years where we have definitely popped out our phones (generally after confirming we have a couple condoms and before we start getting undressed) to record the quick clip of "I, so and so, consent to having sex with this person". Hell, an ex and I realized that the first picture we had together as a couple was her yelling " is gonna fuck my brains out tonight" and me saying "I'm gonna stick my pee-pee into 's vagina" into our phones while laughing.
But also? Once you get out of the novelty of "I'm having sex!" being the be all end all? The first time with a new partner REALLY sucks. Neither of you know what the other is into and you are figuring out the geometry of your bodies and what positions will be comfortable. Having that conversation about liking to have your hair pulled or your nipples being too sensitive or whatever not only ensures that neither party feels "dirty" afterward but also gives you a cheat sheet to make it feel good for all parties.
