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I'm not a law talking guy, this isn't the law, and it isn't ethical best practice but it might help people understand the reasonableness of the poster.
I believe it's true that drunk people can't consent. I think that what juries are likely to actually care about is the question:
Did the accused have the reasonable belief that the plaintiff would consent to sex while sober?
If you're in a police interview or a trial and are asked:
What made you think the plaintiff consented to your actions?
And all you can say without perjuring yourself is:
I vaguely recall that they seemed kinda into it, and they didn't say no, oh! and they didn't fight back.
You're going to have a bad time. ESPECIALLY if you've been drinking, because it will be easier to question the reasonableness of your belief in their consent.
This poster is clearly meant for a place similar to a university dormitory.
This poster is bad because: it makes the law seem lopsided, and perpetuates sexist ideas about gender and sex.
The poster is good because: unfortunately, too many men think that if a girl is drunk at a place where he thinks the girls are looking for drunk hookups, that she consents to whatever she doesn't fight (and maybe more). Too many men misunderstand consent and have dangerous ideas about what women really want. It's much better they be scared into over thinking whether they're risking arrest than that they rape somebody.
Obviously more nuance is good, but if you're trying to stop drunk 18 year olds from raping/being raped, taping up a poster like this in the stairwell is more effective than taping up an essay.
Let me slide in here and say absolutely not to one key point here. If you are in a law office or a trial and you are asked anything, especially regarding something as serious as a rape accusation, you say absolutely nothing, you shut the fuck up and let your attorney do the talking.
Good to see more people linking to this. Hey, if you're an American reading this comment and that link is still blue, turn it purple. lt's arguably the most important video on the internet for every American to watch.
Yeah fair, I mean I think I implied you shouldn't say the quote.
Don't talk to police.
Unless you're a rapist, in which case please tell them all about how she has to be held responsible for her decision to get blackout drunk and seduce you. And how she definitely wanted it because she didn't say no. It will really help you get them on your side. The police are all good ol' boys, they'll totally get it. "Women ☕️", "boys will be boys".
I think the issue with this poster is that it's SO lopsided that it doesn't make any sense. They're outlining a very specific scenario that implies that only males can rape, and that males are more capable of decision making when drunk than females. It's simultaneously misogynist and misandrist.
A much better take on a college campus night be to illustrate different levels of drunkenness. Alice was sloshed and Bob was tipsy. Or illustrate that the same quantity of alcohol can lead to vastly different levels of intoxication. Alice and Bob both had 3 drinks. Alice is sloshed, bob is tipsy.
As is, if I had seen this poster during any developmental years I'd have written it off as bs propaganda and done what I was gonna do anyway. Fortunately, that's not-raping in my case, but for some people, it may be a bit blurrier. And, at worst, some people may see this, see how horribly lopsided it is, and decide it MUST be full of shit and do the opposite.
I'll grant that the poster is lopsided and misogynist. Maybe it's also misandrist.
I think people are getting confused because they think the poster is saying "this is how you should treat women". It's actually more like "You should know that this is how police will treat you".
And, at worst, some people may see this, see how horribly lopsided it is, and decide it MUST be full of shit and do the opposite.
I wish I had enough confidence in humanity to disagree.
If the poster reframes it as "this is how the police treat you" then I see it being a lot more favorable. If it also took a slightly less hard-line stance, insisting on affirmative consent for instance, it'd also fly better. Overall the message and intent of the poster is clearly a good one, but it's touching an area where every single person is so vastly different on, that nuance MUST be taken into consideration, or it's just going to hit wrong.
Yeah affirmative consent is good, but remember that a drunk person can't actually give affirmative consent.
Again I think that's too narrow of advice to give. What is suitably drunk to prevent consent from being given? Where is the determining factor, and do you actually expect potentially inebriation, horny adolescents to be able to ascertain it?
Affirmative consent is a LOT harder to unintentionally give. It's easy to just mumble out an "mhm" to get the situations over with, but it takes thought and consideration to actually say words, "yes, I want you to -specific act-. Advising someone to always seek affirmative consent if they're unclear is MUCH more actionable.
do you actually expect potentially inebriation, horny adolescents to be able to ascertain it?
No, which is why they shouldn't have sex with people that are drunk.
That is one of those things that is just going to happen. People WILL engage in boundary pushing behavior. Be it sex while inebriated or something else. These things are normal, and saying broadly, "just don't do it" doesn't reduce any harm. More effective harm reduction comes with a degree of understanding and measure, saying at least obey these much more easily achievable guidelines.
Yeah it's simplistic but that's the nature of a poster. I think giving someone an idea of the stakes is a good place to start.
So does this mean I can get out of a bad used car deal by drinking before signing the contracts?
You can't fire me for being late to work, I was drunk!
Let me know.
How not to rape someone 101:
"can I _____?"
"Would you like to ___?"
That it. That's all there is too it.
I probably err too much on the side of caution with stuff but when I'm on a date with someone if it's going well I I always just ask point blank if can kiss them like I'm proposing an update to their insurance policy.
By and large women... Appreciate and hate it. They want you to just know what to do and when without the unsexy as hell approach I take, but they understand why and are glad that you're doing that over the alternative pushy stuff they tend to run into.
one time it turned what I thought was a surefire yes into a no but I'll take it over the horrific consequences of not reading the room correctly.
The exception is group sex. If I think some wild shit is going to down I'm doing the naked man. Ik 2 for 2 there.
There are times I absoultely would not have sex with someone sober.
That's pretty much the reason I drink, to be more fun, to let loose and be less socially awkward.
I bet the majority of women I slept with I wouldn't have done it sober. Hell some of then I had sex with twice haha. I really don't understand this argument.
There's been several women in my past that I only slept with because they spent the night pouring drinks in me because I was too shy/socially awkward to make a move. By the logic of this poster (if it was consistent between genders) they raped me, and I don't feel that way at all. There's such a huge gray area around the whole "sex while drunk" thing that makes it really hard to resolve sometimes. Obviously someone getting someone who's previously said "No" drunk in order take advantage of them is wrong but that's hardly the only scenario.