Do people in America actually believe Vaccine cause autism or is bad for health? Or Is it a joke?
Do people in America actually believe Vaccine cause autism or is bad for health? Or Is it a joke?
So, my an online american friend said"My mom didn't want to vaccine vax cuzs autism". Is he joking? I know many people say thing like that but i thought they all were joking?
In my country which is a third world country no one believe shit like that even my Grand mother who is illiterate and religious don't believe thing like that and knows the benefit of vaccine.
Yes, they do believe it.
In my country which is a third world country no one believe shit like that even my Grand mother who is illiterate and religious don’t believe thing like that and knows the benefit of vaccine
That is because your country has recent, relevant experience with the efficacy of vaccines.
US citizens have been so coddled for so long by being an economic superpower and having access to medications and medical procedures that others do not that those who remember are beginning to pass from old age. This means an entirely new, always coddled generation literally does not know from experience how bad things can get without it. Due to that, and due to American obsession with "free speech" lies and misinformation have flourished, and made people believe that these things are dangerous instead of lifesaving.
Further, it's tied in with how US citizens feel about being "different." We live in a wild cult of individuality where everyone knows that if you're actually really different that things can go sideways for you fast. They'd rather not risk a child being "different" and having autism, and they genuinely don't understand that they're choosing to risk death of their child instead. You can be different, just so long as you're exactly like everybody else!
Our education system is so broken, and our people are so fucking coddled, that they have the opportunity to pretend that these things don't matter. It's literally children tearing down things they don't like because they don't understand.
These are those "weak mean that create hard times." Which is infuriating because anti-vaxxers and their ilk are the people who peddle that kind of bullshit ass saying the most, erroneously thinking they're the "strong men" because they're "willing to stand up to the man." In this case, "the man," being anyone with an education. Notice they don't hate a rich idiot like Trump who does not care for them, but they hate intellectuals "in their ivory towers" (cough academia).
Yes, a society can be so coddled that the stupid resent the intelligent and educated to the point where they reject everything they say. They think they are fighting tyranny because they have convinced themselves we are lying to them to "get one over on them." It's absurd because the very people who put those ideas in their heads are the ones trying to get one over on them. Of course, this has been going on in America for long time.
-Isaac Asimov, 1980
I hate that Asimov quote, it makes me sad. We have been on this path so long and never figured it out.
Sagan wrote a lot of stuff that was right on and makes me sad, too.
I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.
One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.
I honestly don't know if we can. The last decade has really killed a lot of my hope for humanity. I think we're destined to wipe ourselves out, because so many of us will sit by idly while the rich and powerful destroy our planet for short-term gain.
it's tied in with how US citizens feel about being "different."
I want to be different, just like everybody else I want to be like. I want to be just like all of the different people.
-John S Hall, 1992
Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else.
-Margaret Mead
Back in the 90s a British doctor called Andrew Wakefield was bribed by a pharmaceutical company that made separate vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella to come up with a study to discredit the combined mmr vaccine. He found a bunch of parents in an antivax society and twisted the results of a very weighted questionnaire to demonstrate a link between MMR and the 'tism. It was quickly discredited, but the damage was done. He was stripped of his medical licence after that.
There's a number of points this comment misses. First, it wasn't pharmaceutical companies, but moms group of autistic children that approached him.
[I]n 1995, while conducting research into Crohn's disease, he was approached by Rosemary Kessick, the parent of a child with autism, who was seeking help with her son's bowel problems and autism; Kessick ran a group called Allergy Induced Autism. In 1996, Wakefield turned his attention to researching possible connections between the MMR vaccine and autism.
And the time, he was still a well regarded scientist and doctor:
At the time of his MMR research study, Wakefield was senior lecturer and honorary consultant in experimental gastroenterology at the Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine
This was also published in 1998 in The Lancet an important medical journal, but the controversy didn't start with this publication, but his press conference after the publication where he did advocate for single vaccines and not a combined MMR. Pretty poor form and highly criticized at the time.
The media took this and ran with it. It caused wide spread misinformation about autism and the MMR vaccine. But it was also a media outlet that began to tear apart the claims in 2004.
It wasn't retracted until 2010 and a full write up about what went wrong in the BMJ in 2011. There was a lot of criticism before then, but I was also highly cited as well.
There's a lot of lessons to be learned here and that is best done with the full story.
Don't forget Oprah Winfrey giving
MelissaJenny McCarthy a mouthpiece in front of every suburban mom in the US. We have her to thank for both that and "Dr" Phil.It's crazy to think about the thousands of lost lives stemming from a single fraudulent study.
Hbomb’s video is a good overview if you have about two hours to spare.
For the paper he published - he got his subjects at a birthday party. Not all of them even had autism. He was positing that autism had something to do with the digestive track, and they did shit like lumbar punctures on some of the kids (one iirc had serious complications - they basically tortured autistic children with a bunch of painful and complicated medical tests).
The fact that The Lancet published a paper with such horrific failures in methodology, ethics, and even fucking sample size is an embarrassment.
It makes me sad that the piece of shit Andrew Wakefield is still alive while so many better people than him have died for his bullshit.
Most people? No, definitely not. Most Americans get vaccinated. More people than you would hope? Yeah, absolutely.
There's so many people here who have crazy views on health and wellness generally. Juice cleanses. Chiropractic. Homeopathy. Fad diets. Faith healing. I think some of it is because people can't afford real healthcare, but most of it is anti-intellectualism and propaganda.
Most of the western world have free healthcare. But this is an America view so I understand.
A friend of mine went to hospital like 5 times to check out his belly with various advanced machines and the final bill was equivalent to like 50 dollars. The taxi rides to the hospital cost him more than that. :)
I think its amazing.
I would say that compulsory voting would change things, but lol, it doesn't. Fuckers vote for the right reasons, the wrong reasons, and just neutral reasons because they don't give a fuck/care/have time to know. Fairly unrelated, I know.
I guess the connection is how politicised basic science has become. The dummining is really ramping up.
Yep. There was a solid base pre-Covid that could be built off of as COVID was shown to be as bad as it was.
I also feel like a lot of vaccine rejection was built on having to justify that COVID wasn't as bad as people were saying it was.
I don’t know, I think the Covid vaccination disaster is mostly from media and politics trying to take advantage, to foment outrage and fake controversy for the clicks/votes. And too many people fall for it
US pharmaceutical companies are straight up evil and we all know it. It's no wonder why more and more people are skeptical about their products, e en when they are shown to be beneficial to everyone.
Wait an actual Chiropractor? I've been seeing a Chrio for my back for years, in New Zealand that is, found them way better than physiotherapy.
A good PT will make “chiropractic adjustments” when it’s in the patients best interest. They will also recommend surgery or refer to an MD if drugs will help. Chiropractors will almost never do these things because they make money treating, not curing. If it’s been years, and you’re still seeing them, what have they cured?
I suffered with what turned out to be a near-herniated disc for years. Tried chiro, tried PT. The difference was the PT kept track of progression, and as soon as I couldn’t progress, sent me for imaging, saw the bulging disc and referred me to a specialist. After a year total of PT, steroid injection, ablative surgery, and recover; I went from being unable to bend down and pick up a sock to doing karate classes with my kid.
Chiro has its place in a treatment plan, it shouldn’t be the only part of a plan.
Same here, although accidentally. I’m a fairly big guy and the chiropracter wasn’t strong enough to do many of the things he attempted so that was useless. However he used this electrical thing to stimulate the muscles in my lower back that seemed to really help.
The biggest problem with chiropractors (in the us) is the industry makes too many claims about what it can help with and there aren’t really regulations about what they can medically claim or where the limits are. You’ll find chiropractors who say they can cure anything and there will always be some who believe it. There’s too little science, too few qualifications, way too many exaggerated claims
Literally not a medical practitioner. You are getting rekei and psychic healing.
There's a few people who practice quackery and making bold claims bout magic being responsible for ills and pushing the "HOSPITALS ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU, SPIRIT SCIENCE SAID SO!" conspiracy nonsense, and still get covered by insurance.
Because they're technically chiropractors, which do not require an MD.
And many in America falsely write off ALL of chiropractory as bullshit because throwing out the baby with the bath water is easier than real research.
It’s a loud minority. Also not just in America there are anti-vax people all over the world. Mostly in developed countries where they have eliminated diseases like polio. And where outbreaks of measles are really rare. Anti-vax don’t believe vaccines are necessary since they personally never seen diseases like polio. While everyone in the developing world knows that vaccines are necessary since they’ve seen what those diseases can do to people.
You know the meme Hard Times Create Strong Men, Strong Men Create Good Times, Good Times Create Weak Men, Weak Men Create Hard Times Well antivax are the weak men.
It is a predominant US minority who tries to spread their nonsense worldwide.
The modern anti-vax movement started in the UK with Andrew Wakefield, I wouldn't be quick to square the bulk of the blame with the US.
It's a global phenomenon of the gullable, the willfully ignorany, and the vulnerable (usually through personal loss or trauma) - and the fraudsters who wish to take advantage of them.
It's a very real belief, lot of folks here weren't around to know the "before times" and nothing is ever real until it happens to them.
The real problem isn't the FO, it's the lack of empathy until it affects them personally.
They've reached the finding out part in Texas.
The belief is real (but the claim is not).
A doctor claimed a certain ingredient in vaccines was causing autism, while also trying to sell his own version without that ingredient. A massive conflict of interest and he lost his medical licence over it.
But damage was done and people freaked out over it. In fact, the ingredient was removed in order to alleviate peoples concerns but by that point the idea vaccines=autism had taken off and it was hard to stop that spread of misinformation. Especially since the dude doubled down on the stance.
Andrew Wakefield, Jenny McCarthy, and RFK Jr. have so caused so much needless death and suffering. Fucking monsters.
And Oprah for platforming these grifters (among many others).
Just to add onto this, because Wakefield's conflict of interest is one facet of the stupidity of the entire thing. Check out H.Bomberguy's video about the whole thing, the poorly done experiment, the inconclusive research, the bone marrow autism cure guy, and how we went from "there is maybe possibly some interaction between some chemical in the vsccine and some as of yet unknown and undescribed connection between the brain and gut this chemical that may or may not have some impact on autism more research is needed," to "vaccines are 100% the cause of autism"
Andrew Wakefield knowingly and intentionally misrepresented his scientific findings to further his own career ahead of the interests of humanity as a whole. Thomas Midgley Jr is the only person I'd put ahead of him in terms of the damage he's done to the world.
So this happened…
Saw that too. We are a joke.
Oh didn't saw it I have blocked all news and politics community.
The irony is it was all started with a guy trying to spread FUD over existing measles vaccines to try getting his own vaccines picked up.
This started in the UK in the 90s with a research paper by Andrew Wakefield linking MMR (measle mumps rubella) vaccines to autism. It was trash research but it for published in the Lancet (a major international journal) before being retracted once other doctors pointed out the massive flaws in the research.
There was and is no evidence of causation - autism happens to be diagnosed usually after childhood vaccines are conpleted but thats because vaccines are mostly in young ages and it takes a while for autism to be diagnosable as its only obvious once children reach a certain age when the socialization aspects of the diseases become more obviously.
However despite it being trash research and eventually being withdrawn, the damage was done. Enough parents of children with autism wanted to believe that this disease was inflicted upon them and have someone to blame rather than accept it is largely genetic and bad luck. A perhaps understandable feeling but that gave an opening for conspiracy theorists to blame the government for a "cover up" even though all the counter evidence and push pack is evidence based and freely unavailable.
Andrew Wakefield eventually got struck off the UK medical register - he was found to have had undisclosed financial interests that would make him millions in selling bogus test kits. The real conspiracy was his but Hes managed to move to the US and make a career as a "victim" and "outsider" to the pharmacy industry.
This whole vaccine conspiracy has been taken up with the US right wing and religious groups. Its a perfect conspiracy for them as it plays into the ideas of the US federal "forcing" then to do things against their will. In this case vaccinating children (which depends on a majority of children getting vaccinated to protect the whole population - herd immunity) and is used as an example of "socialism" vs their preferred extreme individualism. They already rail against being told they cannot indoctrinate children by lying about science in schools (trying to suppress evolution teaching etc) or use the states infrastructure to discriminate against groups they disagree with such as gay or trans people, or be downright racist asis often seen throughout the bible belt.
So the vaccine conspiracy theory is basically one of many tools used by the right wing and religious allies to rail against supposed state interference in their lives. Instead most people who believe in this nonsense are either extremely ignorant and easily manipulated or deliberately using the nonsense to further their own goals. So some of these people are highly intelligent and don't care whether this is true or false - only that it aligns with their world view and goals so they dont challenge it. Some will even know its all bullshit and go along with it to further their own goals.
The covid vaccines has supercharged this debate. The roll out of vaccines with massively reduced testing and safety steps to try and control the pandemic, and then the side effects seen has all helped fuel this conspiracy and grow it within the right wing echo chamber.
There is no evidence whatsoever that vaccination causes autism. However parents are refusing to have their children vaccinated with MMR and now you have outbreaks of diseases like Measles in the US. People will die, people will become infetile - all from a disease that is easily prevented by a vaccine.
Tl:dr: The vaccine conspiracy is a right wing aligned nonsense started in the 90s andnuper charged by covid, and is a sign of the extremely polarised and disinformation heavy nature of right wing US politics (and is seen in other western countries if you dig into it even if fringe stuff)
It's both. They actually believe it and it's a joke that they do.
Spot on. Waiting for their favourite influencer, pastor, etc to tell them to believe something else.
In theatre it's called "suspension of disbelief." You know what's happening on stage isn't really happening, but you agree to just go with it and exist in the show's reality for an hour or so. Not meant to be a permanent state of consciousness.
Our "leader" is an anti-democratic felon rapist who incited an insurrection and illegally attempted to overturn an election.
It's not a joke.
Americans are stupid as fuck.
He may not be joking. My family and people I interact with don’t think vaccinations cause autism. I’m happy to have never experienced or known of anyone getting measles, polio or other ailments most everyone my age have been protected from thanks to vaccines.
Sadly some here believe the lies spread by those who for some bizarre reason are against vaccines. There’s a measles outbreak right now in Texas and New Mexico that’s affecting around 99 people so far. Last year across the US there were 285 cases. Before the fairly recent anti-vaccination crowd formed measles were officially eradicated in 2000.
Now our country’s health leader, RFK (aka worm brain), is one of the assholes against vaccinations. Sad time for sure but we’re not all like this.
As an American that lives 20ish miles from the boarder of Idaho state (on average poor, uneducated, and conservative population), let me tell you its fucking real. Those people are ignorant and proud. It is depressing.
anti vaxxing is a thing that real people really engage in, they are in fact, stupid. But it is unfortunately real, just look into the resurgence in measles outbreaks and TB and shit, that's why.
ur friend very well may be joking, but i can assure it's not a complete meme.
Mostly the right-wing leaning Americans, who don't like anything that costs them money even if it contributes towards a better society. They say they hate Socialism in all its forms, but had absolutely no problem accepting stimulus handouts. They are the pure leeches of our country.
Left-wing leaning Americans tend to believe science even if it comes as a slight inconvenience to themselves, that includes things that sometimes cost them money.
Your friend is not joking. There's an epidemic of disinformation washing across the USA.
And thanks to the disinformation around vaccines, there are also several other types epidemics breaking out...
Yes, there are genuine idiots in this country that are against vaccination.
There are also a plethora of foreign idiots and trolls spreading misinformation about everything including stances on vaccination. Judging by the quotation you shared it’s impossible to tell if that is an actual person’s thought, though, because it is not written in English.
We very, very much wish it were just a joke. Diseases that were basically eliminated in the US are making a comeback. And we just appointed an antivaxxer as our health secretary, who also has proposed sending people on antidepressants and ADHD drugs to work camps for years to "re-parent" them.
It's fucking terrifying here right now, at least for anyone paying attention.
antidepressants and ADHD drugs to work camps for years to "re-parent" them.
... WTF. I hope that mfr get squashed to death.
We are actually that stupid.
One of my family, and former nurse, is against at least mRNA vaccines, but she also fell down the far right conspiracy theory rabbithole so...
Some anti-vax people I know personally are my boss, 2 of the office trolls, the guy in the garage, the stinky guy who sits next to me, my friend's mom, etc etc. People are fucking stupid yo.
MIL100% believes this. Her son was normal until about 3 and then developed seizures and is now brain damage. She blames vaccines and it doesn't help a few other kids in area had similar experiences. She thinks there was a bad batch distribution.
Here's the funny thing, if that had actually happened (bad batch of a vaccine hurt kids) there is an entire Vaccine Injury Fund that will pay out to her. Medical providers have been reporting vaccine injuries for as long as we've had vaccines and there's lots of very real side effects. However, it's extremely difficult to get the payout because you have to prove the vaccine caused the injury and provide evidence that batches were the same. It's probably gone with DOGE but the vaccine manufacturers did pay in to the fund so the money is there and always has been if people can provide their allegations.
Depends on which vaccine. There are two agencies, there is the VICP and the CICP. The VICP only covers a short list of vaccines that doesn't include COVID. (https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/covered-vaccines). COVID vax is covered by the CICP and doesn't pay anything out for pain and suffering, only your medical bills for what your insurance didn't cover from treatment.
But you also need to be careful how you talk about this because there is always some who seize on the real risk of issues without the perspective of the likelihood being minuscule compared tot he disease it prevents.
While there is some risk of the measles vaccination, it pales before the much bigger risk, the much higher harm of a measles epidemic. And we need a high percentage of people vaccinated to prevent that epidemic to protect all of us, including vulnerable segments of the population who can’t be immunized
Go to know. I dk if she had the fight in her to go after it. Wonder if a lawyer would investigate for her.
He is not joking and while it is most relevant in the United States it is not exclusive to us.
They actually believe it. Despite no actual link being found. Despite the author of the OG article admitting that he falsified data.
People here also believe that mRNA vaccines will rewrite your genes, that the COVID vaccine sequesters in your testicles and makes you sterile and magnetic, that vaccines are less effective than "natural immunity", that vaccines will feminize you and make you compliant to authority, and that vaccines are ineffective.
I have legitimately heard all of those arguments against vaccines in the wild. For the record, vaccines are one of the oldest and most effective preventative measures we have. There is a reason why the mortality rate for children isn't +30% anymore, it's vaccines, and vaccination programs.
Magnetic?
Yes, there was a trend where influencers thought it made you magnetic. They proved this by sticking like a coin to their skin for a bit and then being amazed that it stayed there when they took their hand off.
It was ragebait, but also there's dumbasses out there who actually believe that shit.
People are stupid and subscribe to tribalism. It's very real.
No there's really people that stupid. It's tragic.
And these fuckfaces act like they’re enlightened.
And it's a growing trend.
I have very religious family that repeatedly told my 90 year old grandma not to get vaccinated in the depths of COVID-19. I have other, not-at-all religious family that works as a nurse… And is anti vaccine.
It’s like a parody.
…But it is no joke. I can answer questions about them if you want.
If you’re wondering why, it’s because many Americans are inundated in really scary social media and TV. That part of my family is constantly on Facebook, watching Fox, doomscrolling whatever. Even their church preaches some really, uh, interesting things now.
It’s this way because there’s a lot of profiteering. For example, the current head of the FBI is apparently selling and promoting some kind of “brave anti vaccine” health merchandise. The current head of the US health department made a lot of money and fame off vaccine skepticism. And their church clergy is crooked in ways I can’t even publicly discuss.
And if you ever happen to look at the shit hole that is truthsocial, it’s a breeding ground for this shit, in order to propagate scans and grifts.
The only person I know who believes this twaddle about vaccines is a retired nurse and very religious (Christian). Even though everyone in our friend group and in her own family has survived multiple vaccines unscathed, she still issues dire warnings about the latest batch. Arguing has no effect, so I just laugh in her face now.
It’s so bad Texas currently has a measles outbreak.
I shit you not; my dental hygienist just confided in me that 5g towers scared her while she was taking my xrays. She thought they had adverse effects on the body. She has an associate's degree. She mentioned they were thinking of dropping thee lead jacket requirement for patients and was shocked when I said yeah I totally agree.
There's a reason why there comparisons out there about x-ray exposure comparing a flight to number of dental xrays. She's better off not getting it multiple times a day, but my annual xrays do no harm to me.
I personally know nurses who I went to school with who are anti-vax.
They are not joking. They are 100% conspiracy-theory loving, in it for the propaganda weak-willed individuals who will buy anything that shows the man is holding them down, and through some simple choices they themselves can make, they have an edge on the world in their own minds.
I told her that I had a HAM radio license and a background in electronics and science and that understanding exposure to ionizing and non-ionizing radiation, there's no serious effects from cell phone towers and that even if there was one in the room with her, the worst that would happen is heat.
I personally know nurses who I went to school with who are anti-vax.
Honestly, lockdown convinced me that most nurses don't have enough education.
Your average practice runs with one doctor on the books and a handful of nurses performing all the observations and making decisions by proxy.
Even if they had the education and passed the classes, I worry. Working as a nurse in a regional hospital and being anti-vax isn't a "didn't know any better" kind of problem. These people can be trained to the gills, but if they were brought up anti-vax, they're not going to do shit polio literally shows up on their own personal doorstep.
It's Poe's law- sometimes it's a joke, sometimes they're serious, and it's nearly impossible to determine which at any given time.
This is not limited to Americans. This site is dumb. Idiots everywhere are susceptible to misinformation.
United States citizens have reasons not to trust their government with their health. Trust takes a lot time to build, and recent administrations haven't been building it.
...therefore vaccines cause autism?
That's part of the explanation for these people.
Therefore the advice of the CDC can't be trusted.
I trust the CDC. I wish others would too.
I lost people I love to all of this anti-vax bullshit.
As part of my grief journey, I tried to understand.
And now I'm not inclined to mock those who mistrust the CDC.
Mocking them won't bring my loved ones back, and it won't save anyone else's loved ones.
Their experience is different than mine, but it's real to them.
We either talk about ways to rebuild that trust, or we accept that we're going to keep losing loved ones. I choose not to accept it. It's not easy, and it requires trying to understand their world and their hurts. But I've lost enough people, it's worth it to me.
No, it's not a joke, some people are that fucking stupid.
FreeDUMD = the freedom to be stupid
It's a difficult problem to sum up because there are so many reasons this is happening, and I don't think it's all malicious.
At the core there is a general disrespect for any authority in American culture and it's easy to believe stories that a government-mandated medical intervention is somehow not as safe as they say.
It doesn't help that there have been government programs in the past that were harmful and the knowledge was only made public after it was too late. Very few people believe the government has the people's best interest in mind.
Individuals are only capable of understanding a very limited amount at one time, and rely on their tribe to inform them of almost everything else. These days there's a tsunami of information that is impossible to process completely. So it's just human nature to trust a small selection of sources and does usually offer a survival advantage.
So it's not hard to see how smart people can fall for misinformation especially when they are inclined to doubt authority.
At a job in Silicon Valley I had a boss who had an autistic child and my boss told me directly that when they vaccinated their child, the child's behavior changed, and caused autism.
I have other friends in SV who are huge vaccine skeptics.
So, yes, even in deep blue areas there are anti-vax people. There are also Trump flag flying people in SV too.
Let me guess, the child was at the age where observable signs and behaviors start to appear and it lined up with their vaccine schedule?
That's the correlation.
For the parents, their world turned upside down, and Andrew Wakefield gave them someone/thing to (incorrectly) blame.
A thousand deaths aren't enough for Andrew Wakefield. (Paraphrase quote from Frank Herbert's Dune.)
Disclaimer: l'll never illegally harm Andrew Wakefield. But if some authorized entity convicted him to execution and raffled off the right to throw the switch, I would buy one ticket for each person I've lost.
Just wait until OP learns about us taking horse paste during covid
There is a small, idiotic group that thinks that. Unfortunately that group is growing.
You have to explain to them how vaccines work. I'm waiting for them to turn on antibiotics next. Soon we'll be shaking rattles and swallowing toads to cure diseases.
Actually, this tincture of viscous fluid from a legless reptile can cure many diseases!
I oiled it directly from the snake!
gulps
do you really want to know?
Yes, absolutely, and this shit gets so much stupider it is mindblowing, dealing with anybody right of the center (and plenty of people all over the political spectrum) is a constant wild west duel where you have to decide in a snap whether someone believes their batshit crazy ideas as part of a straight faced shockingly amateur grift or whether honest to God that person would literally die for that stupid of a belief......
like..... Exhibit A: See how easily Elizabeth Holmes ripped off a huge number of the most powerful and revered people in US society, culturally and in terms of real power.
Yup. Plenty of us sure do! It stems from bogus autism research by Andrew Wakefield like 20 years ago. There are a myriad of reasons for people to buy into it. We’ve even enabled them with religious exemptions at the state level (i.e. it’s against your religion to vaccinate).
Louisiana has even stopped promoting them, https://abcnews.go.com/Health/louisiana-health-department-stop-promoting-mass-vaccination/story?id=118819674
And we have a particularly nasty outbreak right now in one of our states because of vaccine avoidance, https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq8yvg5359po
Even if it does(it doesn't), I would rather have autism than measles or pertussis, etc.
A nurse in my family went deep anti-vax during covid, and I still don't understand the motivation or logic. And they're definitely not an isolated story.
Not just America, up here in Canada too. It's real.
There's too many stupid people in power; idiocracy is becoming real
We passed well beyond Idiocracy, they eventually changed for the better when they listened to the smart guy, we have actively hostile people in charge rather than simple idiots.
I stopped enjoying Idiocracy as satire or humor about 10-15 years ago when I watched it the 3rd time.
It’s all too real even today, however that might not be the cause of current measles outbreaks.
Measles was eradicated from the US years ago, thanks to high vaccination rates. However that means most people have never seen measles so there is a fringe belief that it’s not harmful or the vaccination is more harmful, and vaccination rates have been declining to the point we could get a larger epidemic.
We do have localized measles outbreaks many years but they’ve usually been attributed to a new infection from overseas and a very local community insufficiently vaccinated. Sometimes the population is from places where they’re not vaccinated, sometimes it’s a vulnerable population. While yes, it can also be from fringe anti-vax groups, I really think the bigger fear is whether those fringe groups open a path to much wider outbreaks or epidemics.
there is a fringe belief that it’s not harmful or the vaccination is more harmful
Some actually believe that it makes their children's immune system stronger.
If they survive and don’t infect others.
That’s back to the problem where we essentially eradicated diseases like measles. Most people have no first or even second hand experience with the suffering, they have never heard of anyone dying. Some of us can look at statistics and case studies to get a better understanding of the consequences, but it’s too abstract for all too many. How can we make the suffering real, concrete, enough for those people without actually causing harm?
It’s also the problem where too many people can only think of themselves. With an infectious disease, what about all the other people you come into contact with? Especially those who are more vulnerable? My immune system fought off covid so I’m not too worried about myself next time but what about my parents? What about a stranger with a compromised immune system? What if I spread it to someone but they have parents or grandparents or a loved one with compromised immune system?
This was especially a problem with chicken pox, and I certainly fell prey to it as well. I grew up where chicken pox just ran through your family and then you were immune. Importantly I never heard of any lasting consequences nor the connection to Shingles. Why would you vaccinate? Just let your immune system handle it.
It was much later that I saw there is permanent harm and even death from chicken pox. Most importantly I learned about Shingles and how prevalent it is among the elderly.
- As a child I saw the consequences of chicken pox is a week out of school so why vaccinate
- As a parent with the resources of the internet I can find out the consequences can be much worse and better understand the importance of vaccinating even for something that had seemed minor
Robert DeNiro has a child with Autism he is absolutely positively convinced was caused by vaccines, he's shushed a lot in public, but it's a rock solid belief of his. I have no idea what to say except, the science says it's not true, so I either believe one man's (more than that but still) personal experience and unimaginable pain at the unfairness of life, or I believe demonstrable scientifically tested fact. I go with the later, but still wish Bobby well.
The rumor started with a few celebrities with their new age theories (from the same era that brought you "rock and roll comes from the devil", "Anne Frank didn't write her diaries", and "Elvis is alive but Paul McCartney is dead") and then it just kind of picked up because America isn't very pro-disability and gets alienated easily. Fortunately it has finally just about died down, but once in a while someone will bring it up.
Someone like the secretary of health or the president, as it currently stands
The American president?
When did this happen?
Some idiots in America believe this, most don't.
The American peasantry believe no shortage of absurdities because every media outlet they have is owned by a billionaire telling them how to feel about what they're allowed to know.
Nowadays, its spread to other things like blaming them for heart problems, GI tract issues, etc. People who were infected with covid, some multiple times, are blaming vaccines for various health issues they're developing and refuse to accept that maybe the full-blown infection that nearly got them hospitalized could have just as well been the cause. Or just something that would have happened as they aged regardless.
Yes, people truly believe this. It seems obviously bonkers to you and I, because we have at least average critical thinking skills. The people who believe these things have way below average critical thinking skills. And there A LOT of these people. Just look at your normal bell curve chart.
Yes. There are people who believe it. I can't explain it, they have the education, they have the information, but for whatever reason they just want to believe a conspiracy theory instead.
Let's put it this way, the new FBI director sells supplements to make you immune from "vaccine shedding", AKA being around vaxxed people.
I think most of this is genuine belief. There was a doctor named Wakefield who fraudulently published this autism claim in academic journals. Those papers were retracted, but the damage was done.
I think it sticks around as a conspiracy, because otherwise there's not a whole lot else that can explain the causes or origins of autism.
Well, aside from the boring "routine expression of a spectrum of neurodivergent traits being better understood leading to increased ability to properly diagnose it, and increased awareness and support in the public education system allowing more teachers to see early indicators and advise medical consultation early so kids can get better support".
They used to just call mildly autistic people geeks and best them with rulers. Now they let them wear headphones to reduce distractions if they need it.
People heard about the original, now discredited study, which came out around the time autism diagnosises were increasing. People then either didn't hear or chose not to believe that the OG study was discredited.
Well, my mom believes it and she's not even American.
Having lived next to them for my whole life; For Americans if it sounds too stupid to be true it’s probably true
Hey, at least give discredit where it's due, the brits are the ones who started it.
True-ish :)
Wakefield went after the MMR vaccine. The whole (separate) mercury thing was started in the US and later perpetuated by people like Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey among others.
I work with several people who believe this.
If these people were around 50 yrs ago we'd still have polio and smallpox.
Not American, but at least a few do. And they're exporting it. My old English teacher back when I lived in the Dominican Republic was an American missionary who taught to fund her religious activities. Guess what beliefs about science and politics she was spreading along with her beliefs about baptism of the spirit?
Not just USA.
Your friend’s mom is a fucking idiot that would believe literally anything that the “right” person would say.
Absolutely a gullible little tool that’s behaving just as they want.
There are more than a few mentally defective folks that believe vaccines cause a variety of maladies.
A neighbor told me that even though her now-adult children had no side effects if she could go back and decide to not vaccinate them instead, she would
Mexican here. It's not as pronounced in my country but some people are a bit hesitant of vaccines because of the bullshit leaking out of the US. It's usually the least educated who are often more inclined to believe.
Having said that, we have a lot more believers in homeopathy, including plenty of healthcare professionals because it's been recognized by our Health Department. Because if it's recognized and popular, it's gotta be true, right? 🙃
They sure do. It's so dumb.
I know many who believe vaccines cause autism yes
There are people around the world who don’t believe in it. It’s not specific to Americans. You are basing this off one person on both the ends.
It's sadly real. There are a lot of parents who would rather their child died a preventable death than have trouble making eye contact.
Yes, there are fuckheads here that genuinely believe it (and other crazy shit) and I wish they'd all get cancer and die.
They contribute nothing to society and they typically have zero redeeming qualities. The entire world would be better off if they were dead, full stop.
only the ones that are anti-vax believe that, in the us theres this lady , jenny mccarthny who jumpstarted the movement.
In another post, the user who didn't want vaccines said it's that they did not want to put the comfort of others above their own.
I guess that's a valid stance but it's definitely not a view I share.
That stance is stupid as fuck. Getting a vaccine isn't putting others first. It protects you and happens to have an extra benefit of protecting others as a treat.
It’s not a valid stance. It actively undermines the effectiveness of vaccines when people choose not to get them. It’s a feedback loop that actively makes the world a worse place to be and increases the chance of premature death for thousands if not millions. It is selfish and they’re lying to themselves to feel better about it by saying such nonsense.
oh 100% some people do genuinely believe that. I personally know people that do
I've never met anyone like that in person, but some people genuinely believe it.
People believe it like they believe horoscopes predict your future. Its a fun little activity they do with their friends but at the end of the day those that get vaccinated sleep fine at night.
Yes, People are stupid.
They rather believe one discredited doctor that lied because he had a vested financial interest in selling his own product over the competition, and a washed up worthless husk of a failed playboy model, over their own personal history of being vaccinated, their doctors assurances, and the global medical community insisting on them not only being safe, but urgently critical to have.
Americans are some of the most stupid, and most easily propagandized people on the planet. Especially conservative Americans.
Yes. America is a joke.
Do you see how these days anyone challenging authority and pointing out issues gets labeled and dismissed as a "conspiracist"? In the past years governments worldwide with the help of social networks and mass media pushed stupid ass conspiracy forward like flat earth and no vax as a tool to control and downplay dissent.
With the healtcare system being controlled by for profit evil corporations, medics treating people as if they were robots and after the covid pandemic where experimental vaccines got forced on people against their rights, vaccines misinformation found a fertile ground.
Just a quick reminder that for the most part, outside of the US, healthcare is socialized and not run by evil corporations.
The pharmaceutical industry still have a say in public healthcare. In europe the mandatory vaccines during covid were all made by for profit corporations listed in the stock market.
IDK what country your from, but in the US, mistrusting doctors and the institutions of health is the most rational thing in the world. That's because our healthcare is capitalistic and runs on that logic. People die all the time because helping them would cut into profits.
The real insanity is thinking that the government, corporations, and the media would suddenly work together to benefit the health of the public.... for free.
Antivaxers are not stupid, they just never lived in a world where Doctors and Hospitals cared about public health.
If you are not American and have not interacted with the American health care system, it is almost impossible for you to believe how bad it is. I think this is a big part of what makes antivax believable to people here: The fact that it is absolutely undeniable that every part of the health care system they deal with day-to-day is shamelessly abusing them and their health for profit.
It's not true that the public health apparatus that comes up with vaccines is a part of that same psychopathic system, it's actually a rare and exotic thing that still cares about humans and is working hard to help them, but how would they know that?
Yeah, you're not exactly sounding rational there buddy.
You think we should mistrust doctors who advise you take a preventative treatment that every healthcare system on earth recommends and has since the treatment was created because in one country the people who pay for medicine sometimes don't want to pay for things the doctors recommend (and you're saying don't trust the doctors, mind you), even though the people who pay for it actually recommend it because they make more money if you don't get sick.
Even in a full conspiratorial mindset your nonsense is disjointed.
Antivaxers are fucking idiots because they don't have a coherent internal logic for their paranoid woo, they don't have the ability to understand any of the research that's happened, and they don't want to trust the people who do because those people clearly want to hurt them and give them... A developmental disability. For profit somehow.
And this is where we see left-wing wackaloons finding common ground with right-wing wackaloons.
It's easy to forget, the anti-vax movement used to be predominantly left. It only became popular on the right in the last ten to fifteen years.
What about doctors from countries with public healthcare who are... also telling people to get vaccinated?
they just never lived in a world where Doctors and Hospitals cared about public health.
Tons of doctors care about public health. Perhaps hospital administrations don't and are only concerned with money, but they are not doctors.
Pharmaceutical companies may be suspect, but it's the same thing: The suits in charge, not the people working to find solutions for people in need.
Ascribing these attitudes towards the people who are actual stewards of public health who are are constantly blocked by an administrative class that is more worried about profits has everything to do with being in a brutal capitalist society and almost nothing to do with "doctors who don't care about public health."
The people who come to conclusions that they can't trust those in the medical field at all are throwing the baby out with the bathwater and have no ability to parse the nuance of such a situation.
I'm not saying all doctors are perfect, I have had some shitty doctors in my life. But by and large I've had more who were concerned with my health enough to help me than I have had those who simply don't care what happens to me.
I'm just going to leave a link here to the Tuskegee Syphilis Study for the folks arguing against your point.
The study was a great example of unethical medical doctors, academics, and government officials. It is not an example of the greed of capitalism, since other than not being given penicillin, all participants were given long term medical care thanks to funding from the government.
The study ended 50 years ago, but I guess you got us.