Just waiting for the day when someone can explain to me what makes a man a man without describing skills, qualities, and actions that anyone can do regardless of gender.
And don't tell me it's "have a penis", because if that were true then effeminate men wouldn't be insulted all the time for not being "real" men, and there wouldn't be toxic masculinity.
Same question for women. Gender is only useful insofar as we decide it is. We have an inherent nature to categorize and differentiate, and in some cases that makes a lot of sense, but outside of strictly biological facts, that distinction between genders is nebulous at best.
Like religion, gender identity is personal, even if it stems from society. No two people will share the same opinion, it'd probably be weird if they did, and as long as they're not using their opinion as basis for fact, do whatever you want, man woman or anyone in between, outside, or around the spectrum.
A man is someone who identifies as a man.
Yes, it's circular.
A featherless biped or a miserable little pile of secrets, take your pick.
Gender is a social construct that is, gladly, starting to fail.
I hope that in some years people would stop refering to having any gender, and they'll just have the social behavior they'd like best when they like it best. And will only discuss their sex when it's medically relevant.
Sadly unlikely because it's rooted in biological differences (mainly hormones), so on average there will be sex-based differences. I'd love it if people stopped stereotyping because of that but I doubt itll ever happen. Maybe we can at least get rid of the idea of gendered hobbies and such, but even then most people want to identify as part of a group so there will likely always be some association.
It's less that the social construct is failing, and more that we're finally letting it flourish.
Tying the way you present to the world to one of two options often linked to your gonads is extremely limiting. What you describe isn't the failure of gender, it's an explosion of genders.
Idk, but i feel like it's just being who you are and respecting yourself.
Same as a woman being a woman.
Anyone that's confident in who they are isn't going to care or announce it.All the blustering either way is just yelling "im a grown ass man/woman!" outside of a grocery store at 1 am.
And if i have to pretend that your ass looks good for you to feel good about your ass, your ass doesn’t look good.
Now let’s get past the idea that relationships don’t involve theater for our partner’s benefit.
I’ve always thought the least manly quality you can have is caring about how manly you are.
How to really feel like a man
- Ignore gender wars bait, there are way more important things out there.
- See step 1
Yeah, first time hearing "a man wants to feel like a man"
My first interpretation was a bunch of guys fighting with sticks and everyone having a blast
There are fun casual LARP or Nerf groups all over the place. Most of them would love to have more people coming out to the park on the weekend. Bring friends, or make some while you're there!
Are you male? The phrase is primarily said to women which might be why you're unfamiliar with it if so.
Sometimes you find a really great stick. I've got one on my porch right now.
You:
Strong people build others up. Weak people knock them down to feel big. You want to feel like a strong man? Protect others and be generous with your spirit.
You want to feel like a strong man? Protect others and be generous with your spirit.
Fucking this. Strong men—strong people—help others. Healthy or not, realistic or not, this is the message that’s been sold to us since time immemorial. The knight that slays the dragon and saves the kingdom. The alien that crash lands and moonlights as a superhero. The sled dog runs 261 miles to bring the medicine to a town beset by an epidemic.
Yes, sure, one can argue some romanticism (or propaganda) with any given example. But the overall message of heroism, of strength, is not one of selfishness or of “me and mine”.
Semi-related, as this reminded me of a quote from Cary Grant:
I pretended to be somebody I wanted to be and I finally became that person. Or he became me.
This was then repurposed on Star Trek Strange New Worlds by chief engineer Pelia (from a species that lives several centuries):
Most heroes I've seen... are just pretending half the time. There's this one guy I remember, he said to me, 'I always pretended to be someone I wanted to be, until finally, I became that someone, or he became me.'
Hah, didn't catch that when I saw the episode - Pelia knew Cary Grant!
From somebody named "geekandmisandry".
That just shows you how impartial they are to the whole thing
Yeah because no one ever picks an online username that doesn't perfectly represent their irl personality 1:1
You have no idea how this person behaves offline, you're just reacting to their username
I thought that it was amusing. I have no idea why somebody would want that in their username.
I thought "feeling like a man" meant eating a lot of meat and losing money on sports betting.
Idk I don't do traditional man things.
I do do traditional man things: woodworking, maintenance on the family vehicles, and I’ve been thinking of getting into machining as a hobby because I have a lot of hand-me-down yard equipment that’s showing its age and I might need to start making my own parts because eBay is looking kind of barren.
Anyway, none of these activities have ever made me feel “manly” I never understood what that means. I feel like myself doing either something I enjoy, or something that needs to be done. My wife always says that she likes that she married such a manly guy who can fix all this stuff and make furniture, but anyone with functioning hands and a brain can do this stuff, it’s not exactly hard. Having a penis doesn’t make you an expert carpenter or mediocre mechanic, working with wood and old engines does that.
I know you're joking, but I don't get people who unironically think like this. Like whats preventing a woman from eating lots of meat and losing money on sports betting? Like what physical barrier prevents them from doing that? None.
So how could that define manhood?
So how could that define manhood?
Societal expectations. If enough people think it does then it does. Doesn't mean non-men can't do it, but they might get ostracized for it, just like men are when they do certain female-coded things. Why is blue for boys and pink for girls? Why are high-heels for women only? Doesn't have to make any actual sense, it just kinda is right now, even though it wasn't always the case.
It's all society. Always has been. Always will be. There are some very specific biological differences in the two sexes, and we've used those real differences to decide a bunch of fake differences we stick to out of convention. There's an idea of what a man is in our collective unconscious, an archetypal "man", and that's what people refer to, but that archetype is breaking down. Man, woman, gender in general. We're realizing that those distinctions aren't useful, and sometimes, maybe even most of the time, are detrimental.
That all said, humans are social creatures. That pressure, that idea of "man" is all around us. It's absolutely understandable that people can still generalize what "man" is. The concept doesn't have to be based on anything tangible to be relevant to our species.
Most 'man' things make me feel awkward and uncomfortable. Even when I was a kid. Other boys would wrestle and push each other around and stuff and I was like, "yeah, don't involve me in this."
And yet I have never been insecure about my gender. I'm fine being a man who isn't "traditionally" male.
I don't even own one flannel shirt.
I've never heard anyone say that phrase, is it possible that people use that expression to mean "a man likes to feel like a man... not a machine"? Ie he has thoughts, emotions, and priorities. He is not a commodity, his worth is more than just profit he can produce.
Not that women don't also have those attributes, just that "man" is being used as an outdated shorthand for humanity.
I'm not sure how i feel about the post altogether. I mean, i understand that toxic masculinity is bad, but this post needs some assumptions and context to make me want to side with it. For example, if I saw some guy just kinda minding his business doing silly guy stuff and the context was he wants to "feel like a man," i don't think i would be offended or concerned?
r/justguysbeingdudes comes to mind
I've heard this one before from my conservative grandma, It's when a girl is doing something manly that the guy ""should"" be doing. Like if a girl is carrying in all the groceries while a guy is just watching someone would say "let [guy] do it, he's supposed to feel like a man"
This came up a lot as my sister is very much a 'do it yourself' kinda gal whereas her (now ex) boyfriend wasn't much of an initiative taker.
It's not about a guy not doing manly things, it's about stopping women from doing manly things.
(also note I'm using 'manly' in the stereotypical terms, not how I personally see them)
It's hard to tell from the context, but it felt to me more like something a right-wing guy with really unrealistic expectations says to their soon to be ex-girlfriend (or possibly to the fiance in the marriage the church arranged) about how they need to be the one in charge.
Yeah I think we should believe that the witness correctly interpreted the meaning in the given context, but we shouldn't assume that everyone that says it means it like that. It's context dependant.
A patient I dealt with had schizophrenia and dementia, "but I'm a man, not a little girl with panties" was his counterargument to everything.
You can only have one cigarette at a time because otherwise you lose them all and run out. "But I'm a man."
You know the doctor says your food needs to be cut up. "Do I look like a little girl to you?"
That's the communal cheese bowl, this is your plate. You can't eat from the communal cheese bowl with a fork. "Do you see me wearing panties?"
Whenever I hear people making these kind of gender essentialist arguments, they just sound pitiably out of touch with reality to me.
Have you asked him how often he thinks about wearing women's underwear?
In my head I made many cutting remarks. But the reality of this level of cognitive decline is like 90% miserably depressing and only like 10% infuriating. Plus he wouldn't be capable of understanding the criticism anyway.
Just change King to also say man.
So a trans person saying that he is a man, is not a real man? Or more adapted to context, a trans person saying that he wants to feel like a man, is not a real man? and doesn't deserve to feel like a man?
I don't agree with that at all. Weird thing to upvote tbh.
Edit: Today I learned, when I advocate for trans rights, I get up votes. When I apply the same support to cis men, I get down voted.
I thought this is a supportive space in terms of gender identity. I guess I was wrong. I will continue to support trans people for the same reasons, I support everyone. Human rights.
When first reading "a man likes to feel like a man", i thought it was about trans men
Lol yeah I've never heard an adult male say this so that's the route I was going down too
That's the perfect answer, IMHO.
More in general, it's not up to others to change the way they act to feed somebody else's self-delusions of having some kind of quality they do not have.
I've actually had to deal with something somewhat parallel to this when I moved from The Netherlands (whose people are known for being blunt) to Britain (were everything is sugarcoated and people are evasive, the higher the social class the worst it gets) and then proceeded to go around unknowingly insulting just about every insecure person I met in that place by giving them my blunt opinion on what they cared about, without evasiveness or sugarcoating.
The balance I found was to stop giving my opinion unless asked and if asked by somebody who didn't know my ways yet, give them a notice ("I used to live in The Netherlands so just point out ways in which things can be improved, but that doesn't mean I think they're bad") and then proceed to give them my blunt opinion.
Is this a real thing? I don't believe I've ever encountered this. I suspect they're actually being demeaning to men in general, or men who don't fit their idea of masculinity. I've encountered people like that. Though the opposite is more common (men, and women, demeaning women who don't fit their idea of what a woman should be like, or just demeaning women in general).
I don’t believe I’ve ever encountered this.
It very much is something you'll find in advice columns for women.
I also have never encountered this, although i didn't reach the same conclusion (or any conclusion apart from this is rare or not a thing).
Now im thinking about it you're probably right
If Men want to feel like Men then they have ways to deal with their insecurity:
Redo their own plumbing, twice. Once to change things and again to fix the problem they caused.
Chop firewood.
Build a furnace that you're only going to use like 4 times, ever.
50 pushups. If not reaching it makes you sad, start skipping numbers.
Redo their own plumbing, twice. Once to change things and again to fix the problem they caused.
I'm in this comment and I don't like it.
If not reaching it makes you sad,
start skipping numbersforgive yourself and repeat tomorrow. You'll feel awesome when you get there.NO. THATS NOT MANLY ENOUGH. REAL MEN GIVE THEMSELVES THE AUTHORITY TO SKIP NUMBERS.
No! Perfection every time! Especially the first time.
Did the first person just translate "like a man" as "superior to you"? They done failed their own little word game.
Only if you're completely unwilling to unpack what things like "be a man" and "like a man" generally mean in the anglosphere, and how phrases like that have often been employed to reinforce the worst and most destructive aspects of masculinity.
Recent results show this is exactly what is happening.
This whole “like a man” thing sounds to me like an extension of the toxic cultural BS where “men” are not just humans with emotions and needs like every other human. It reeks of men who are too scared or ignorant to be self-aware and figure out what life really means to them, and thus they need the people around them (especially the partners) to play along in their power/masculinity fantasy.
What a man needs is to realize he’s just another human, and that for humans happiness and fulfillment can ultimately only come from within. Relationships with others are crucial, and you might even need some medication to get your brain chemistry unfucked, but neither of those are independently going to make you happy with yourself and “feel like a man.”
“A man” can refer to roughly half the adult population. It’s not exactly an exclusive club. Why not leave gender out if it and try to be “a good person” and see where that gets you?
Having the people around you walking on eggshells to keep your manly ego intact, whether it’s out of fear or pity, is the exact opposite of what a good person should strive for. What if the people around you instead trust you, feel safe with you, laugh with you, and are better off with you in their lives?
Source: Am man. Went through some stuff. Figured some things out. Made some things better. Have wife and child who enjoy life.
I'm stumped at the simple task of trying to imagine what does imply to "feel like a man".
A lot of it is centered around achievement and feeling useful, so building or fixing something, physical activity, being seen as a provider etc.
It's why men with families etc take being made redundant quite badly, not being able to provide for your family can really make you feel like a failure.
Well that and not being able to put food on the table and a roof over their heads.
It's not about feelings at that point, even if they still exist.
I’m stumped at the simple task of trying to imagine what does imply to “feel like a man”.
I feel like a man when I know I've met all of my responsibilities to myself and the ones I care about, and that I've moved the world even an infinitesimally small way forward to help the others in it. This means lending a hand or an ear to those that need it either with my labor or my mind (or many time both).
I hope others have something close to this definition, but realistically I don't think its common.
I guess what confuses me about all of this is why these things are in any way manly?
Like being reliable and following through on your commitments. Is it masculine when someone who isn’t a man is like that?
Or if I’m told someone is manly, have I now learned that he is in fact dependable?
I don’t mean to try and excessively pick apart what you’re saying, it’s just something I’ve always really struggled with understanding. People always seem to say things that strike me as being ungendered character traits when they’re asked about their gender.
When you take your shirt off, you lift something real heavy, open a beer without a bottlecap opener, and high five somebody and it hurts then you should be activating all the correct masculine endorphin triggers. A lot of it comes as a response from high testosterone hormone levels.
Imagine you know Rex-Kwan-Do and go home to Starla every night.
I don't know if it's gotten better these days, but back in the 90's "being a man" was more a definition of absence. Being a man was "not being a woman/girl." This caused a couple years of real difficulty for me as a high school boy, since women were (finally) allowed to do all the "male" things, which ended up defining the male identity out of existence.
I feel like this perspective needs a bigger audience, since it explains a whole lot about the incel/alpha backlash, and the gender divide in U.S. politics.
Some would argue that to feel like a man is to feel pain.
Ask a transmasc person
I agree with some of the other answers you've received, but I want to add one.
I think there's a kind of impulsive confidence, and unmitigated determination that lets me put on shorts when it's 20 degrees Fahrenheit out, then tells me to stay the course, and accept that I have entirely become cold, rather than merely passing by it.
As for what other people can do to help me feel that feeling, I have no idea. I do those things because of the way that I am. People have already tried encouraging or discouraging me, and it hasn't changed how I prefer to dress (for example).
Being a stubborn old fool isn't just a "man" trait 😜
But I suppose, being statistically more risk tolerant is a sign of being a man. Not sure if that nature, nurture, or both I'm not going to speculate. But we are where we are however we got here.
I for one, am amazed I've made it this many trips around the sun.
penetrate things
A wife would know exactly what it means and how to do this.
Mine puts up with my dad jokes and tell me I look handsome when Im all gross and covered in dirt after a long day working outside. That's more than enough for me.
When I come in sore and cold from shoveling the latest buttload of snow and she tells the kids to go cuddle daddy and warm me up? Yeah that makes me feel pretty good.
Contrary to what some people claim, a lot of women do find men attractive that can get themselves dirty and are crafty. That is, if it doesn't come with manners like a cavemen.
we are simple beings.
Pack her bags? That's what I would expect my wife to do if I told her it was her job to reinforce my masculinity.
Two people who care about each other will provide all forms of validation and support that someone needs. This is kind of the point of being in a relationship, a partner who makes you feel like [insert thing you want to feel like] when you need it, and you give that validation back to them as they require it.
We seem to have gone severely off-course when we started expecting a world full of uncaring strangers to give us all kinds of validation for things.
Just don't cast shit on a man that's had enough of it from his work or society. Sometimes we just want to feel human.
That holds true from all genders to all genders, it isn't a uniquely "man" thing.
Yeah yeah all lives matter. This thread is about men tho.
Well, yes it is. But there is a lack of care about men at this time, and it is actually not a good thing. The patriarchy is bad for everyone.
As a biological male and someone who identifies as a man, it's pretty weak, IMO, to need someone else to make you feel a particular way.
Are you in control of your feelings, or do you constantly need someone else to reinforce, or induce a feeling in you?
Personally, I'm in control of my feelings, and bluntly, nobody else has control over me. Neither for how I feel, or what I think/do; with the only exception to what I do being governed in part by legality. Eg. If I know a thing isn't legal to do, then I won't do that thing. Beyond the rule of law, I do, think, say, and feel, whatever, and however I want.
To me, having that much control over my own self is what makes me a person living in a free country. Anyone who does not have the ability, like I do, to think, feel, do, and love, whomever and, whatever they want, is someone who I want to support in gaining that right.
This seems ...um.. naive. I love my wife and her opinion of me affects my feelings. And the more I care about my wife, the more I love her, the more her opinion of me matters. Humans are social creatures and we look for positive feedback from the people we care most about. To pretend like this doesn't matter is silly.
I understand your point here.
People we care about should be people we care to make happy, and who we want to make us happy.
I'm speaking more about agency. I use my own agency to limit whose opinion can even move the needle to my emotions. I decide whether their comments are something I should "take to heart" or disregard as an outburst.
Personally I separate myself from most situations and emotional involvement and look at things from a neutral, logical standpoint before I allow myself and my own feelings to be affected by what may, or may not be said in the moment.
I don't need anyone to do anything to make me feel happy, or like a man. I control that. I'm not going to blame anyone for how I feel.
If you don't feel happy, or you don't "feel like a man" (whatever that means to you), the answers to why you feel that way, or how you inspire those feelings in yourself are entirely within your power to control. You have agency over your feelings.
My SO, when she compliments me, makes me feel good, but I don't need her to constantly placate me with compliments in order to feel valuable, appreciated, happy, or "like a man".
It is emotionally healthy to look inward for happiness and satisfaction. Relying on the acceptance and platitudes from others to feel okay is codependent. I don't understand why anyone would want to give their agency over their feelings and emotions, wholly and completely over to others.
The idea of controlling your feelings seems laughable. If you have control they aren't feelings, just thoughts. You cant really control thoughts either, just control what you do with them. Except we know that humans in general don't have great control of our actions either. We just have to live in this comfortable little lie where we have control over ourselves despite all evidence to the contrary in order to maintain a remotely reasonable society, but it's not real any more than your belief that you control your feelings.
There's a saying that stuck with me: "feelings are never wrong".
Your feelings are a fact of your continued human existence. Unless you're a psychopath or sociopath (or whatever) and you literally don't feel, your feelings simply are.
From there I determined that feelings can be inspired incorrectly from a given happenstance. While you may initially feel offended by something that is said, it's neither necessary to continue being offended, nor is it necessary to always have that reaction to that given happenstance. Accepting yourself as you are is vitally important in restructuring who you want to be.
This is all borderline cognitive behavioural therapy. Training yourself to be the best version of you that you can be. I've been dabbling in CBT techniques for most of my life. I wasn't aware that it was CBT when I started working on myself in this capacity, but I've recently learned that a lot of the techniques I've been using to better myself, and increase my agency and control over my own mind and emotions, is used in CBT.
I would agree that some thoughts are not controllable. We all get intrusive thoughts and impulses that we choose whether we want to act on them. Whether that action is to open your mouth and speak those thoughts aloud, or type them out, or to take action based on those thoughts.
The thoughts and actions you describe I understand to be system 1 thinking. Aka, thinking fast. There's a great book on this called "thinking: fast and slow" which covers the ideas. Basically system 1 is your "fast" thinking, heuristic/instinctual/"muscle memory" systems. It's your "knee jerk" reactions and your first thought on something. System 2 is your contemplative and analytical systems, aka, "thinking slow". System 2 can educate system 1, which is how we form habits and "muscle memory"
System 1, we have little immediate control over since the majority of our sapience is fully embedded in system 2.
I would agree that there's a nontrivial number of people going around under only the learned behaviors from system 1, and doing very little analysis of what's happening by utilizing system 2.
People in general like receiving positive feedback. There is no need to assign feedback to gender roles.
I agree.
If I may ask, did you feel the need to post this because you felt that I was portraying the opposite, or are you building on the point?
I'm hoping it's the latter, but if it's the former, please tell me what I said that made you feel that way. I'm always trying to improve my communication.
A man likes to feel
likea manthats what i read it as lmaooooo
I have to feel that "a woman needs to feel like a woman" wouldn't get a similar reaction.
It sounds like something terfs would say to explain why being a tradwife is good and desirable.
Why is that the direction you're taking this? Have you not once noticed how women have a whole set of unspoken rules and shit that you gotta do to be part of their show?
That sort of could be interpreted as "a woman needs to know her place".
Traditionally, societal opionions of how a woman should be involved her making herself appealing to men before married and submissive to her husband afterwards.
I would even say that "a man needs to feel like a man" and "a woman needs to feel like a woman" are two sides of the same original coin - it's just that in modern days the latter is frowned upon much more (though, sadly, a lot of people still go around with an interiorized version of it) than the former.
I'm not so sure. If I went around standing at doors waiting for them to be opened for me, I think it might get laughed at.
I once got told off by a woman in The Netherlands (to were I had immigrated from my native Portugal) for holding the door open for her and had to explain that it wasn't for her, it was because it made me feel good to be helpful and I did it for both men and women (if you've already gone to the trouble of openning the door, might as well keep it open for somebody who is just behind you).
I just found it funny how a cultural habit from somewhere else that wasn't even gender specific got interpreted as macho posturing.
Lots of women do this, mostly very young ones with fresh naive boyfriends but its definitely not unheard of for a woman to act that way. Not that that excuses the men who behave like this also.
That sounds very TERF IMO, they're also hated
Yeah, whenever anybody talks like this, I just assume they're talking about traditional gender roles. So, "a woman needs to feel like a woman" gives me the ick, too.
Yeah, and they really need extreme effort to cater to. Maybe it just doesn't come so naturally for me in the spectrum, but it feels like a whole awful game balancing act that exists to let the other person think they're in charge.
LOL! Almost that exact phrase is what I use whenever my wife asks me why I'm peeing outside in my backyard instead of just going inside to the bathroom.
National trust is in favour of peeing in the garden. Can be good for some plants!
Or maybe we are just sick and tired of fighting the world and don’t want that kind of drama at home with our partner.
I need to feel like a man.I need someone to hold me tight for a moment.I need to feel
likea man
Funny thing: only ever heard women say this
Some women are the most toxic perpetuators a patriarchy in a backwards way
If a woman questions your masculinity, that's the biggest red flag.
because its not only men perpetuating this shit, some just put up with it and guide younger women on how to gently move things along and the flimsy little dude forgets and gets mad about the next dumb thing. Literally my parents...
Yeah, but you've seen the dudes who have that anxiety thing going on about it. They're not about to spell out their own repressed embarrassing stuff.
What is a man?! Nothing but a miserable pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!
What makes a man ? is it being prepared to do the right thing, no matter the cost ?
No. That's just what makes a good person. Pretty much the same with every other "Being a man means yadda yadda yadda" I've ever heard so far. Every time, what follows are a list of qualities that make a good person/human, and are neither exclusive to men, nor counterfactual for women. To think otherwise would be to imply that women don't/can't/shouldn't possess those qualities (I'm not saying you thought otherwise Hadriscus; I'm just taking my thought to the next logical step).
I don't have a satisfying answer for what "makes a man" because I reject the entire concept that there is any list of qualities of what makes a [gender]; or that one is even needed. The closest could be a pair of testicles (per Laser's reply), but then we'd enter into a trans debate and frankly I support trans-rights.
Or to really sum it all up, the entire debate is just a bunch of gatekeeping and social identity politics ("man" and "woman" both) that really is just stupid and counterproductive to us all getting along.
What makes a man? Is it the power in his hands? Or is it his quest for glory?
And what makes a man turn neutral? Is it the lust for gold? Power?
I was just born with a heart filled with neutrality.
Tell my wife I said hello.
Sure, that, and a pair of testicles.
You joke, but perhaps... perhaps you're right.
But maybe you could still pretend I am a strong man every once in a while anyway? As a treat?
no... oh... okay...Normalize feeling like a man as somebody who is given space to feel anything beyond anger or shame. A man needs to feel like he can talk about things on his mind at any given time, to anybody he trusts. A man is somebody who can cry when he is hurting, and it be okay; that he won’t be labeled as weak or a coward.
I'm like half the size of an average man so as a woman I sometimes have these moments even more intensified, like a goblin against a troll
You're 2ft11
Edit: ft and inches are hard for halfsies
I mean it’s right there in the quote. They want to feel like a man. They don’t actually want to be one.
Every man is by definition a man and feels like one.
i wish that were true
I hate dealing with some types of men, it's exhausting.
At this point, I'm not even sure what it feels like to be human.
Why does he want to feel like Man? Is he stupid?
What's wrong with wanting to feel like a man? There's nothing inherently negative about that. I like providing for my wife and I want nothing in return. I like doing typical man stuff with my friends. Why does that make you feel like I'm trying to be superior to anyone? I am comfortable in my masculinity and so should anyone who wants to be, stop treating that as toxic.
edit: Express your opinion by downvoting me if you must, but do me the courtesy of answering the question.
Nothing's wrong with feeling like a man.
I feel for this post because I've been told by bosses that men aren't used to people like me. They'd get used to it if women weren't told to dumb themselves down for the poor boys raised on some fabricated ideal of manliness. I don't like to think of traits or talents being gendered because it's exclusionary.
When I go in to buy computer parts I still get asked if I'm sure that's what my boyfriend wants? I never mention a boyfriend, they just assume. I don't ask for help in hardware stores because nine times out of ten it's gonna start a whole argument with someone who thinks they know my project better than I do.
I see the same thing happening to guys, saw a dude at a yarn shop get asked if he was gettin supplies for his wife. That sucks, right? It sucks to feel less like who you are because of what you like. That shit keeps up the gender divide because not everyone has the energy to risk feeling a little worse to do the things they enjoy.
So yeah, I'll never describe an activity as typically male or female.
As it turns out, the things that make a good man are the same things that make a good person.
I love cooking and baking. Whenever there's a family get together I try to make something whether it's a full dish or some sweet bread for desert.
None of the other guys have ever complimented me on any if it, they all compliment my wife on 'her' delicious food. She corrects them and they say nothing, it turns into a weird situation for some reason and it seems like they're embarrassed to admit they like something made by a man? It's weird
The toxic masculinity on my wife's side is absolutely crazy and really sad.
I won’t bore you with repetition so I’ll just link.
I think we mostly agree, doing the stuff you want to do in life should not be stifled by your gender. But in the OP and in this thread I get the feeling that “a man likes to feel like a man” automatically carries with it the implication that others should accommodate (by for example dumbing themselves down in order not to damage fragile masculinity as you said). I don’t see that implication at all. Is there some cultural context I’m missing here? Is this something you would say in a context where fragile masculinity is in danger of being harmed?
Shhh
Man bad
Op hates men I guess. That's my take away.
Geekandmisandry. Misandry ie. someone who hates men.
Well at least you're open about it. Many aren't when they attack men.
Here's the thing about "toxic masculinity". Some people are toxic. Women and men tend to express that toxicity in different ways. Attacking an entire gender for the behaviour of the worst is stereotyping.
More broadly it's part of the modern notion that we are on teams and that the other team is bad.
Of course both men and women can be toxic. The point of toxic masculinity as a term is to draw attention to the fact that there's a certain brand of toxicity that has much more harmful outcomes in male-dominated spaces, for a variety of social and cultural reasons. It tends to be a rather controversial term mostly because it gets conflated with the idea that masculinity itself is toxic (which is not what it's supposed to mean).
The discussion should be about the magnitude of the problem, not hand-waving it away because women do it too but in different ways. The "different ways" is kind of the whole point of the argument.
Also, that's a lot of extrapolation you did simply from a username in a screenshot. Would you describe any of their actual words in the post as misandrist?
Empowerment is for women only. Noted.
Empowerment is when people make themselves subservient around you? If you need everyone around you do defer to your ego that's not empowerment.
Is respecting someone as a human really being subservient? Or is someone strutting around demanding respect for who one is, really just demanding everyone else to be subservient?
The source of women's empowerment isn't men pretending that women are strong. It's women who changed.
and every women is beautifull.
