Why does the USA have so few legal protections for ordinary people, and how can we change that?
I'm just a regular person making about $70K a year in a big city, and I've recently felt incredibly powerless dealing with private companies. For instance, my landlord’s auto-pay system had a glitch that excluded my pet rent and water bill. I ended up with over $1,000 in late fees. Despite hours on the phone, it turns out their system doesn’t really do auto-pay and requires a fixed amount instead of covering the full rent. It feels like a scam, and my options are to pay the fees or potentially spend a fortune on legal action.
Another frustrating experience was trying to cancel my pest control service. I had to endure a 40-minute call followed by 35 minutes of arguing, just to finally cancel. There’s no online cancellation option, and the process felt like a timeshare sales pitch.
Why do ordinary people seem so unprotected against these shady practices, and how can we change this? How does one person even start to address these issues?
The country was founded by slave owners. After that we had various "industry barons" like railroads, petroleum, automobiles, etc. Now we have multinational corporations (with larger budgets and more power than several countries) calling the shots in congress. It's always been like this. Post-WWII provided a brief respite, but that limited run of the "American Dream" was temporary and no longer exists.
Part of the solution would be: worker cooperatives. We need a lot more of those. It won't solve everything, but it's a really good start.
Basically we got all our rights in the post war period. Baby boomers and their parents had an excellent time, got theirs, then pulled up the ladder behind them. Zoomers will probably fix this but it’ll be interesting to see if it sticks this time.
I had this conversation with lots of people if everyone saw a company is doing things or taking advantage of people imagine if on the exact same day, one million customers canceled their accounts. That kind of unity can give all the power needed to the regular people. But you can’t get people to cooperate or even to have enough self-discipline to go along with something that isn’t for their immediate and measurable benefit. And so the big players know they can abuse and exploit.
A more perfect union, that can establish justice and domestic tranquility. One that provides for the common defense, promotes the general welfare, and secures the blessing of liberty for ourselves and future generations.
Isn't that ideally what the government is supposed to be? We can't all individually fight for ourselves, so we vote for people to represent us and work to protect our interests. That is, if politicians actual represented their constituents and not the highest bidder.
In Australia ACCC takes care of abusive businesses, surely there must be something like that? Even 3rd world countries like Brazil has something like it.
Putting warning labels on predatory lending. Spending more time fighting various right-wing interests in the right-wing dominated courts than doing any actual regulating. Does nothing to deliver actual money to the people who need it - all they can do is regulate the extent to which a private loan is shitty and extortionary.
net neutrality
Tries to regulate the ISP monopoly rather than breaking it up. Doesn't actually guarantee internet access to anyone. Doesn't extend high speed internet or establish public internet access points. Also constantly under fire in the right-wing dominated courts, such that they can't effectively deliver on their function.
ACA
The best thing about the ACA is the extension of who qualifies for Medicaid. Everything else is a band-aid on a band-aid. Just open up Medicaid as the Public Option and you'd have done more good for more people in the long run.
education assistance
Doesn't limit the total cost of education. Can't even extend loans at the Prime Rate, because some private middle man always needs to get a cut. Doesn't improve access to education by setting up new public schools or vocational programs. Doesn't increase teacher pay, reduce student housing costs, or mitigate the cost of living while pursuing an education.
Blah blah, the Republicans Are Worse. But the Democrats only ever seem capable of operating through the private sector via subsidies and civil penalties. Where is the actual public infrastructure? What does the public sector actually own and operate? What is being delivered at cost rather than as a profit-center for a third party?
I once got screwed by my mortgage provider and was helpless. I submitted a complaint to the CFPB and they contacted my mortgage provider and made them make things right. That directly translated to significant money back in my pocket.
All of these are really important policy changes that have positively impacted our society. How do you spark change to the effect of all these? I recently reached out to the Federal trade commission on one company that has some extremely predatory practices but don't think that'll do anything. What other methods can I use? Email congressman or something?
And for the cherry on top, the party in the 2-party system that claims to be the “good” side trying to implement all these citizen-friendly policies have enjoyed multiple majorities in the last 40 years that would have allowed them to do these with the snap of a finger using well documented legal mechanisms.
And yet, they do not.
That liberal sneer about leftists just wanting to complain rather than fix things? Also projection.
Really weird how everywhere I turn, the “good” side is doing the same fucking thing as the bad orange side.
I finally was able to cancel a Telus home security service after they tried to put me in a 3 yr contract. I finally was able to cancel. I sent the equipment back and then they started charging me other monthly fees as if I had renewed. I didn't even have their equipment anymore.
another 45 minutes on the phone and they say it is finally cancelled. But who knows. I'll probably have to call again when they take the amount from my bank account despite removing my bank info from their site.
A company with 19.2M users. Imagine how many people are robbed "by mistake." This is not a mistake but part of their internal procedures.
Cancelling a service even when contract is over is made difficult on purpose.
I don't know if you've been following what Lina Khan's been doing with the FTC but there's some incredibly antitrust work which she's been putting into play. They've been really going after monopolization and Biden's been putting forth rules to make breaking subscriptions easier, which would help with OPs particular problem: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/15/us/us-government-unsubscribe-memberships.html.
I spoke to a lawyer about something similar to this recently and he basically just laughed at me. Told me there is no way it's worth it, would cost tens of thousands of dollars to fight it in court and would basically have no gain to me personally at all. Overturning such a small amount no matter how wrong or immoral it is would be extremely costly on both sides but they have way more money to throw at the issue than I do which I totally agree with honestly. So you can do something that's totally immoral, just as long as you have tons of money behind you to pay for it
And this right here is one of the fundamental injustices of the American legal system. It's completely fucked that some conglomerate can basically railroad an individual into poverty from a bullshit lawsuit and that private individuals without deep pockets essentially have zero recourse in the legal arena.
When corpotations are allowed to buy out politicians, this is the end result. Corporations have no responsibility, they know they will not be held accountable.
There's a lot of replies here about why US citizens are in the situation they are but not how to fix it, which was the question you asked. You have two political parties in a first past the post system with largely similar corporate focussed policies, people primarily vote against a party rather than for one that represents them. If you really want to change things you'll need to overhaul your voting system to break up your two party system and encourage competition from parties that actually represent what people want.
Unfortunately there is no safe and easy way to do this; it means the two parties in power giving up that power which they will not do willingly. You'll need large scale consistent and actually disruptive protests, ie not just meeting up for a day then returning to life as nornal, but the US has a history of responding to protests the same way they do everything; with violence.
So more practically, you can contact your representative at the appropriate level of government and hope they don't completely ignore you this time.
One of the things more and more companies are doing is
Ignoring the Laws.
They have learned to ignore what they are required to do or what they are allowed to do . Knowing few will sue and those who win will get no more than they were due.
The companies have learned there is no downside for being criminal.... So they have become criminals.
The US is incredibly bad at reining in capitalism. It also only has two parties that are both heavily influenced by lobbyists.
To fix it, not sure, calling politicians and showing up to stuff will help but it's always going to be an uphill battle. Anyway, just vote, if you get the option to choose then vote for a third party as long as you're not in a swing state.
The real solution is still voting reform to get more diverse opinion so if that's on the ballot vote for it and try to get other people to do the same. The UK missed a major opportunity for voter reform.
This can happen over a couple of generations by removing winner take all representatives for a state and cause a hung parliament. Coalition talks will then be more likely to include concessions on the two state systems to get a governing coalition.
You can look at the UK as being the same only one generation ahead if things go well.
It also only has two parties that are both heavily influenced by lobbyists.
And yet, one party keeps enacting consumer and worker protection laws, with the other party taking them away. HMMM CURIOUS oh well I'm sure they're both equally bad
Yeah, Democrats are way better at making legislation that benefits an average person. They're also respect the parliamentary conventions and the democratic process.
moving away from something like FPTP (what the majority of america uses) and to something like IRV (maine uses this iirc, and most euro countries also do) can vastly improve things.
As for american elections the states themselves have a lot of control over their own voting process, and even some of the federal process. So just voting locally for voter reform can be quite impactful.
Exactly, state elections with referendums on voting reform are absolutely crucial to move the needle.
There's a major thing happening right now in the US where states are agreeing to pledge their vote to the winner of the popular vote as soon as the pledged electors get past 270 which is a big win in my opinion. It's still doesn't help with the two parties situation but any democratic improvement is a win.
I swear shit has gotten exponentially worse since I was young. For example, last year I suffered a brain injury, I have about a month of missing memory. During that month, my homeowners association sent notice that they were being sold to another management company and the autopay I'd been using for 5 years would be cancelled. I missed this notice due to being in the hospital with brain damage and so never got new payment switched over.
I'm used to companies being gracious and working with their customers. Instead I had a lawyer sicked on me and the paperwork to forclose my house was started. I wound up having to pay all their legal fees and penalties which was an order of magnitude more than the actuall missed payments.
This was the most painful one recently but this is par for the course. Someone else said it in this thread but it's become a real dog eat dog world, something that used to be a folksy saying has now become a harsh reality.
Why do ordinary people seem so unprotected against these shady practices
Assuming you are in the USA, it's fundamentally because our politics is fueled by private money. The "haves" spend lots of money to make rules that protect and enrich themselves at the expense of the "have nots". The rich get richer, and the rest of us get a larger share of the burden.
The rich then spend more of their money convincing everyone else that some minority group of their fellow "have nots" are to blame and let us fight amongst ourselves. They starve us but leave us with just enough left to lose so that the price of doing something about it is too high (quitting, losing health insurance, getting arrested at a protest, etc) for most of us to bear.
how can we change this?
Get money out of politics. Get the public to stop blaming their fellow have nots and demand change from the haves.
How does one person even start to address these issues?
Have empathy for and help your neighbors if you can, especially when they take the risks required to push for actual change. Talk to people. Organize. Support/start unions or a mutual aid organization. Go to local government meetings and make your voice heard. Run for local office.
Its easy for a small group of wealthy organizations to tilt specific elections or politics in their favor. It's much harder them to do that in 1,000+ small communities across the nation.
Excellent points and to add to that support local journalism, the smaller the better. The media is really the fourth branch of government when it comes to checks and balances. If media integrity was restored, they could use there influence to hold Congress accountable to the people.
because private companies were never meant to big this big and powerful.
They have so much power because they lobby and control the government, part of the problem is dems being generally unappealing and trying to focus more on less significant social issues rather than doing things like, taking away the rights that big corpos never should've had in the first place.
It's a give and take game, the less regulations you have, the more companies you have and the more capital you have moving through you, the more you have the less regulations you have and the less capital you have moving through you.
Well one big fix would be to make legal services free at point of services and instead make the government responsible for paying the salaries of lawyers.
Call it Justice for All like Medicare for All but more patriotic sounding and litigious.
Kills SLAP suits, and opens the gates for people who had legitimate grievances but were scared of the legal fees and costs to have access to their day in court.
Start organized movements to heavily push for ranked choice voting. If it becomes a national movement then maybe we'll first start seeing it locally, then on a larger scale.
$1000 is likely small claims court. At least where I was, no lawyers are allowed for small claims so the landlord would have to come to deal with it himself or a representative of the payment company.
In a nutshell: average Americans don’t have extra billions of dollars laying around to lobby against corporations writing laws so lawmakers don’t have to be bothered with it
Really each vote only costs thousands from what I've heard, plus with recent rulings/interpretations/laws, you might not have to prepay and hope they follow through. That last part could be me taking the piss at something I read about kickbacks from contracts though.
Did you think about it until it happened to you? There's a huge lack of empathy and thought in general (I would argue that, as communities, this increased as social media became more prevalent and in-person third places shrank). Even then, if there is a concerned group, they still have to fight all those other people who are not concerned because they don't think it will affect them or are possibly mildly inconvenienced by it. I think addressing that would help. Also, writing to your elected officials and voting in all elections.
I think such protections have to happen BEFORE the market capitalists are able to use their immense hoards of power, that's what capital is at scale, to capture their own governments and regulators that were supposed to act as a firewall protecting regular citizens from them, as the market capitalists have in the United States for almost half a century.
Once that happens. Good fucking luck. Greed doesn't let go of what it acquires.
In the UK we at least still have most of the residual EU consumer protection law in place, so a lot of this kind of stuff that's common in the US would be illegal here. That said, companies still manage to innovate new ways to screw the consumer all the time.
OP I don't know what state you're in but in some states like CA a landlord can't pull shit like this
in California, a landlord cannot compel a tenant to pay rent via electronic transfer. The landlord must provide an alternate means by which the tenant can make payment. See California Civil Code Section 1947.3(a)(1)).
it's because money equals power and they have all the money and are able to build mechanisms to suck the money you have so that they have even more money. Can't help with the landlord but for the pest control using something like virtual credit cards numbers. so if they won't let you cancel. you just delete that card and they lose acess to your payment details. when they contact you for payment just cancel right then.
It's because the American culture of individualism has successfully divided up worker's power that makes standing against wealthy and powerful individuals next to impossible.
I will say this because people in the US don't seem to look out for neighbours that they can't see.
Vote for politicians who will empower the working class and take billionaires and multinational corps down a notch. Don't let culture war distractions take people's eyes off the ruling class intentionally diverting the attention away from them.
Team up with your neighbours... you don't have to start a protest/riot immediately but ask them if they've had a similar issue with the landlord's autopay system. Have barbecues or potluck dinners with them on occasion.
Go to your local city council when an issue you care about comes up. Write to your city council, state rep, house rep and senators about things that concern you. Join local movements or participate in their events to enact change you want to see. United you will be stronger.
There’s been deliberate dismantling of social services.
I was married to a wealthy man. He was controlling and abusive, and had the police remove me from our home. It wasn’t legal, but the police have lost the records of whatever they did that night. I couldn’t get a lawyer to help me, he had access to my bank accounts and emptied them. I reached out to multiple domestic violence agencies - there is no shelter, there are no lawyers, there are maybe one or two therapists if you are lucky. But I’m basically completely helpless.
I don't know, but companies shouldn't be allowed to merge if you call either of them and the wait time to speak to a person is more than 2 minutes.
Also companies should have customer conceriges, call them and explain your issue and they navigate the company infrastructure, resolve your issue, and report back.
Businesses have more money than individual citizens. You will get what you want from the U.S. government and local government when we get money out of politics -Full-stop.
I just started listening to a new podcast series called Master Plan that talks about how this happened deliberately and systematically over decades. It followed the Powell Doctrine. You can hear a conversation between the primary host, David Sirota, and Brianna Joy Gray (she's not one of my favorites, but I tuned in because it was him) on Bad Faith podcast.
Pretty much we are a corporate welfare state at this point. Electing officials you think will pass or enforce laws to bring them to heel is your best bet. (People like AOC are preferred, as she has never accepted contributions from corporations to her campaign.)
Reactionary and minimal lawmaking. A cultural thing since wild west times, because of freedom-mindset. Lead to more and more influence of financial strong parties, lead to laws supporting said parties.
I'm not an expert in any of those areas and from europe, but that's how i understand the USA.
It’s the only thing we will have left pretty soon. Capitalism is pretty close to flatlining. Then we will have a Corporate Congress and the nation will become The United Corporation of America - in name as opposed to now where that’s what it is but it’s not yet called that.
I do anticipate fascism becoming overt after November, but the powers that be will market it well, like that time they turned Nazism into 'White Nationalism'.
I always thought it was ironic that the country with widespread gun ownership under the pretext of protecting individual freedoms has a surprising lack of individual freedoms
It's exactly what it sounds like. Extra bullshit monthly rent tacked onto the regular rent in addition to a usually non-refundable pet deposit at time of move in or pet adoption.
Basically you're a money faucet in the US, and wide open if you have pets or kids
Corporations tried out binding arbitration and the people just took it with very little complaining. So why not keep eroding consumer protections or the other rights citizens fought for in the before times?
I'd argue it's because citizens have no voice. The media has there corporate narrative, but the public interest has very few organizations in advocacy of it.
Support local journalism (financially), work to break any media control on the narrative.
The first thing people could start doing is stop providing free labor to the media. It's all over Lemmy.
Don't link to a corporate news outlet. Link to an .edu or PBS or NPR or a quality international publicly funded news organization. Or better yet build your own narrative, your own opinions. Discuss your opinions respectfully on [email protected] . Build momentum and take away the corporate medias control.
Without a public voice advocating for the people, it will be very hard to change any legislation in the peoples favor.
a glitch that excluded my pet rent and water bill. I ended up with over $1,000 in late fees. Despite hours on the phone, it turns out their system doesn’t really do auto-pay and requires a fixed amount instead of covering the full rent
You got over $1000 in late fees from a single month of not having the full amount?
It's just corporations and rich assholes running the show and they absolutely do not give a fuck about anyone but themselves, especially if the anyone is poor ordinary. The only way to solve the issue is to completely remove these entities from the equation and start making our own protections.
People don't fear for their lives when they fuck people over any more. We need to bring that back somehow. Ratfuckers should be fearful after they ratfuck somebody that they're going to get theirs.
I am not a lawyer, but consumer protections should generally kick in when an issue is actually evaluated in a court. If you are being charged for things you believe to be unfair, you would need to refuse to pay, then see them in action after the business escalates it. Often, a predatory business will give up when it knows it doesn't have a case. But it's pretty hard to work on behalf of a citizen if they ultimately are convinced that they do have an obligation to pay after all.
I agree with the other commenter on the first issue. If you have been paying the amount you were charged, and then hit with surprise retroactive charges, you would have a serious case in small claims. I expect a judge would favor you if it's as described. $1000 for late fees is exorbitant, especially when the glitch was from their software and not rectified quickly. Unless you're leaving out relevant details that explains the situation better.
For the second issue, needlessly cumbersome cancellation processes are considered dark patterns and may be illegal in some cases. These cases are being enforced more recently, even against large companies like Amazon. For your pest control case though, if you face pushback when cancelling it's pretty simple to tell them you won't be using their services and will refuse to pay. If you already paid, you may be able to issue a chargeback after explaining the situation to your bank. Seeing as how you would be being charged for services not done, I don't see how the business could contest that after being informed of the cancellation. You would still be on the hook for a (reasonable) cancellation fee, as lost business from a cancelled reservation does represent real damages.
We are a country with a litigious history and we have recognized considerable rights for consumers. Just because you feel powerless doesn't mean you are.
I'd wager that his lease has a mandatory arbitration clause that requires him to pay up front then try to get it back via arbiters chosen by the landlord.
The entire justice system rests on how much money you have.
It's capitalism, capitalism is the core of the problem.
It treats people who have wealth as good people who always have a chance to appeal injustice and people without wealth as never having an opportunity to fight injustice.
You would literally need to tear it all down and start over because the US Consitution is kind of a piece of garbage and we spend way too much time jerking off the old dead white slave-owners who wrote down that "All men are created equal... as long as they're white and own land."
In some more civilized countries, they do things like peg criminal fines to the wealth of the person who committed the crime? Poor person? Small fine. Rich person? Huge fine. It's decided based on a percentage of their wealth. So the wealthier criminals literally pay more because of their financial influence.
The unfortunate fact is it is a dog eat dog world, and corporations can and will fuck you over. Maintain a budget, maintain an emergency fund of $10k or 6 months living expenses (whichever is bigger) and be prepared to be screwed over so that when it does happen you don't find yourself up the proverbial creek without a paddle.
On top of this, as an additional safety net, build a friend group and build a culture within your friend group of helping each other. One friend getting a surgery? Offer to cook for them, or bring them some precooked meals. A friend stuck on the side of the road, offer to come help, even if it's just as emotional support.
I started this process a few months ago so I'm in a better position now that my work has announced that they're relocating across the country and basically everyone is losing their jobs over the next 3-9 months. It would've been more convenient if this happened a year later, but it is what it is so now I have to shape my next steps and move forwards
No it's not, that's zero sum owner class propaganda designed to force us to waste energy competing with our peers instead of fighting the rich bastards
Humans have created a haven away from 'nature red in tooth and claw' where we DON'T have to compete with each other, and mutualism without profit is possible, it is literally the greatest achievement of our species, to short circuit natural selection.
In human culture, the weak and sick don't have to be sacrificed for the good of the whole, and we can support a wide and diverse service and goods structure BECAUSE we have moved on from natural selection.
The problem is, predatory practices are often more rewarding short term than cooperative practices, and humans are geared for short term planning.
You get more food now for killing the farmer and taking his cattle, but you get more food for everyone forever if you let that farmer prosper.
Bandits kill the farmer, they are the ones telling you it is a dog eat dog world.
The farmer will tell you that the world is full of bounty if you put the effort in to cultivate it.
Yes a bandit uses less energy, and has more short term profit, but degrades the entire total outcome of the system by their greed.
This doesn't change the fact that when no social safety net exists one must construct their own safety nets. That's my point. We can talk all we want about how broken the systems are and how we would fix them if given the power to, but ultimately we have to live and survive. Use the good times to better prepare yourself to weather the bad, because good luck getting help from the government or corporations to do so
The point of an emergency fund is it will get you through whatever unexpectable large expense without taking on debt. Car needed a repair and you had a health procedure plus your water heater went out all in the same year? 10k might not cover all of that but it will give you the options to manage those emergencies as they come up
Edit to add: banks also may carry more cash on hand than you might think. I worked IT at a bank fairly recently and I could see in the teller software as I remoted in to assist them that they'd have around 3-500 on their individual tills, and when I'd stop by branches to help out with things, sometimes I'd catch a glimpse of the stacks of cash kept in the on-site vault, or one time saw the teller pull out a $10k bundle of 100s to fulfill a customer request of a couple hundred bucks while I was assisting with something else. I don't know exactly what goes into how a bank determines how much cash to keep at a given branch, but it's certainly more than the couple thousand or so that people say branches only keep on hand
Personally I'd recommend focusing your time and energy on the things you can control. As an individual, there is nothing you can do alone about it. If you feel strongly enough about it you could join or start an advocacy organization about the part of the problem you find most galling. But the truth is unless enough people both want change and are motivated to take action to get it the world will continue its decline unchecked.
Volunteer if you can, but try not to let it get to you. The impersonal brutality of our world sucks butts. Some horny french guy would tell you that life is absurd. If everyone agreed we shouldn't burn fossil fuels, we wouldn't. But we can't ever all agree about anything. Most landlords aren't malicious, they just don't understand how their greed affects others and don't care enough to try. The horny french guy's drinking buddy and metamore would say you can only laugh at the absurdity of existing at all. If you look hard enough the entire universe seems in on how fucked we all. Do what you can, but find something else that makes it bother you less (like a hobby, not a meth habit). I like writing weird stuff and being the model maliciously compliant tenant.
You totally have a move with the landlord. Follow the rules of your lease chapter and verse. I bet there is a specific clause in there about you being responsible for any unreported maintenance issues. And there is also a clause saying something about the landlord's responsibility to perform maintenance. There is usually some wiggle room, but there is probably like a two week window in which the landlord is required to fix any issues with their building.
Report everything. Get on a first name basis with the maintenance folks and whoever answers the phone for your landlord. I had a roach problem because my next door neighbor was a hoarder and left my landlord voicemails every night updating them on all the new locations I have found roaches and my efforts to eradicate them myself. Once the roaches were dealt with my landlord was very willing to overlook those maintenance fees because it's cheaper than court.
Edit: and was probably grateful not to deal with that tenant.
Reading the comments here and it sounds like the only solution for people with first world problems who earn a good salary is violent revolution. Utterly deranged.
There are currently 120 comments, of which I can see one person suggested "violent protest" and one person suggested "blood". Most of the comments which give any suggestions say unionisation, protest, and reform. If you see those as inherently violent that says a lot more about you than it does the other commenters.