how can something be so courageous and yet so true
Edit: Jesus Christ, people. If you buy a $150 Thinkpad made by slave labor instead of a $1,200 MacBook made by slave labor, you're still supporting a capitalist economy based on slave labor. We all do. We have no choice. The number of smug liberals in the comments saying "well I buy a cheap used laptop" or "well I buy coffee beans and make my own coffee" are completely missing the fucking point.
Don't tell yourself your consumption is moral. All of us make unethical choices every day because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Accept your shame and guilt and let it drive you to do better.
It's possible to participate in society in such a way as to uphold our beliefs about how society ought to be.
If you want to complain about Apple's abuse of employees, don't buy their stuff.
If you want to abolish slavery, don't own any slaves.
If you want to smash capitalism, buy a used thinkpad.
Sure, there are some instances where this just isn't possible in a complete and absolute sense. For example, I despise google, have invested a lot of effort in degoogling, but there remain some google components I rely on.
However, the existence of these instances does not mean we don't need to invest any effort in supporting the changes we want to see.
I agree, that comic is bullshit. Acknowledging that the world we live in isn't the one we want but that we can make a garbage system less garbage is absolutely valid. There are initiatives like Right to Repair that bring us closer to our goals while also actively making the existing system suck less, so why not take the money you would have spent on Apple products and put it towards the cause instead?
Nope sorry, there are many much less capitalistically aggressive alternatives to starbucks and apple. Slaves on the other hand literally (and not figuratively as in here) needed to keep slaving to stay alive. I would seriously feel cramps in my stomach if I walked into a starbucks with that sticker.
Sure, but it's the fact that out of any other choice to pick, she chose to still give her money to the most aggressively capitalist companies. You can say it's consumerism, but what point is she even making then? She sat down at a Starbucks to get her overpriced coffee, on a $1200 Macbook with a sticker on it that says "SMASH CAPITALISM", it's blatantly hyprocritcal.
Buying a used Thinkpad doesn't change the fact that it was made by slave labor. It might make you feel better to buy one, but it changes absolutely nothing. You still bought an item made in part by slaves or near-slaves. And you're keeping the market alive for that to continue.
All your options are "capitalistically aggressive". It's a sign of immaturity to me that people think they're above it all while still being totally and utterly dependent on capitalist economics. Acting like buying a fair phone makes you better than others is just laughable. It's a drop in the bucket compared to all your other unavoidable contributions to capitalists.
Not to mention that many of these "better" options are only available to people with money, which makes the entire claim even more ironic. Many of us going this "alternate" less aggressive route can only do so because we benefit from inequality in the first place.
Your argument in no way refutes the point the comic makes.
nope, there is for instance a ton of difference between someone who buys a used phone and uses it for 5 years vs someone who buys a new phone each time a new model comes out. Similarly there is a difference to how much you enable or enhance this system when you make conscious choices about which brands to use (ones that are a part of it or ones that actively redefine and make things worse).
I would agree however that it really makes no sense to of course try to infer all of these from a single photo, maybe this person is super anti consumerism in all other aspects, maybe she is repairing someone else's computer etc. Nevertheless apple is the last brand you should be using if you want to put a smash capitalism sticker on your laptop, you can at least show the will to have your os open source. Otherwise it is like going to a steak house to eat steak with a "stop animal slaughter" shirt. It is the exact definition for me of acting like you are above it all without showing the effort to be.
I would think the exact opposite. Apple's monopoly practices (you notice they just got mega sued by the USG for antitrust violations, right?) mean if you want to effectively collaborate with people inside the Apple ecosystem you need to use Apple products.
On the other hand, Starbucks is easily replaceable, unless you're in some sort of food desert urban wasteland, there are local coffee shops everywhere.
Please tell me how I can build ios apps, test multiple browsers (including safari), and test on any iPhone without mac? I don't want to use a mac but it's not "always a dumb choice". Sometimes (by design) there is no choice.
I'm no Apple fan but I'm no hater either. They're overpriced but most people who have them are buying them for the style/aesthetic/image...and while that may indeed be shallow, if that's what they want and the apple stuff delivers it for them and makes them happy, I suppose it's money well spent (to them).
The coffee on the other hand, if they're in any city or suburb of any decent size, there's probably a small local option that's at the very least as good as Starbucks coffee and likely significantly better.
I also get annoyed when people criticize when wealthy people support leftist causes. Like, yeah, Bernie Sanders (or whoever) has a lot of money, so the fact that he isn't blinded to injustice by his own privilege is a good thing.
"When I was poor and talked about greed and poverty, they said I was jealous, now that I'm rich and talk about greed and poverty, they call me a hypocrite... I'm starting to think they just don't want to talk about it."
As Linux enthusiast I think I have to jump in and say if you're not using a 10-year-old Thinkpad bought second hand running EndeavorOS you're not a true socialist
(Obviously I'm not serious but Poe's Law is a bitch)
They're very similar, but you get to support Taiwan with Asus. You don't have a pointing stick, though; if that's something you care about. The hardware is also similar, but Lenovo generally has better cases/ outershells, but Asus also outperforms them on price point and internal hardware and software.
Huh? You can absolutely change mac ownership if the current associated account holder is involved. It's a very simple process.
Now, if you need to remove an activation lock without the involvement of the registered account holder, it's a huge pain in the ass (had to go through this with a work laptop a year ago).
Oh, I didn't know you needed apple products, the most monopolistic tech company to exist, to survive. That explains why their fans are so rabbid. I better switch from Linux otherwise I'll die.
People are pressured to align with social norms, so the word "survival" in this case is used very expansively. It means not only to continue to exist, but to continue to exist in the social strata you have managed to achieve. ANY such strata comes with standards of quality, and pressures to make choices that align with the group. There are always outliers who cross strata and reject certain things, but that does not mean all of us don't abide in certain cases.
So no, you don't need a Mac, but you may receive pressure from your social group, and may value conformity as a part of your "social survival"
While I accept your argument, you're either a juvenile, or an extremely weak willed person to buy a particular brand because your "friends" pressured you to be more like them.
I'm no Apple fan but I'm scratching my head at this comment. Would any other brand of laptop be "less capitalist" somehow ? Just because they are less overpriced than macs ?
Apple is by far the most monopolistic tech company you can choose from.
But... While capitalism naturally leads to monopolies, capitalism can't function under monopolies, so I guess supporting the most monopolistic company is going against capitalism...
When I went through college I had to get a MacBook as part of my kit
Literally couldn't use a different device if I wanted to because of forced app usage (when there were cross platform alternatives that would work just fine)
I've also worked somewhere that forced a MacBook onto me as a work device but also allowed us to sticker it up if we wanted cuz they weren't gonna take it back until it was basically useless anyway
Many places one can get a mac, a couple of them are actually forced on you
Also a product isn't a bad product, just because it is produced under capitalism. A computers ability to compute does not depend on its mode of production.
"It's okay to resist capitalism on an iPhone. The feudal lord who owned the pitchforks the peasants killed him with probably observed the irony too." -Ben Stiller
i understand what you're saying, but technically a computers computing ability is entirely dependent on how it's produced. Especially in the case of apple, where with intel they really like not giving you any cooling at all, i guess they thought it was funny or something? Or with the new M series macs where they dont give you any ram, because god forbid people use normal amounts of ram.
You can pick up a refurbed MacBook for under $800. Or maybe it's a hand-me down. Or maybe, like me, at the end of a contract their employer said "We ran out of money so consider your laptop payment."
A friend of mine who used to be a coworker got an i9 MacBook Air because the company he worked with liked him (were an MSP, so we support other companies). He doesn't even use or like em, I think his wife used it.
Or you could just buy a new laptop for $800 and actually get a usable amount of RAM.
The specs on base tier MacBooks tend to be so bizarrely low it's laughable. Literally comparable to the PC I had over a decade ago (save for the CPU, of course). I don't know how they get away with it.
I mean,.seriously, why would any sane person spend $800 on a laptop with only a 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM? That's literally the specs of an $800 laptop from 2013! Apple is blatantly scamming people and getting away with it.
... or maybe she thought it's an edgy sticker and fits her style?
Idk. But if you really were serious about smashing capitalism, it's kinda irrelevant how much stuff you buy, there's a lot of groundwork to be done, organizing and educating. For all we know, that may be what she's doing in that photo.
If she dressed in rags, owned nothing and was homeless, I fail to see how that would accomplish anything more.
Although I prefer to support local businesses, not a fan of massive corporate chains. My city has dozens of local coffee shops that serve fair trade products. I can walk to a half dozen of them, whether or not I bring my ancient 2011 laptop. But I do love my principles being questioned by smug internet randos so 🖕
But Apple is one of the good embodiment of capitalism. It is a symbol of excessive consumption, surveillance for profit, and consumer-right abuse.
That being said, is not like most popular alternatives are any better. If people don't have time to switch to or even heard about better alternatives (upgradeable open hardware running an open community-driven OS), I guess it is not their fault.
Starbucks, however, has many alternatives (at least in the U.S.) that doesn't involve as much union busting and harmful labor practices.
is not like most popular alternatives are any better
Not in the ways you mentioned. Apple is the most profitable of them all though (due to their horrendous prices, duh), which doesn't fit an anti-capitalist attitude. I guess, it could be a second hand laptop but they are still supporting that ecosystem.
Well an argument against Apple products specifically is that they promote anti consumer trends.
Proprietary cables, unrepairable devices, having an ecosystem that is hostile to third party devices, popularising things like sealed batteries or removal of headphone jacks.
Apple actively is making the tech world worse imo.
Oh sorry, I forgot I had the option of pulling a "Sliders" and finding myself in Socialism world, where I can get a tax-payer funded laptop and coffee I get according to my needs, paid for by what I can give with my abilities... Completely fair to judge me for that!
I mean I agree, though there are some less capitalistic options than Apple and Starbucks if you really hate capitalism. Those companies are amongst the most capitalistic businesses available.
That said, does it really matter what brand of guillotine you use to cut off billionaires heads with?
Another point to her cause I haven't seen in the comments -
How old is that MacBook and how many hands has it passed through? In my experience, anybody with new (any tech really but ESPECIALLY) Apple products keeps that shiz pristine. I grab a cheap laptop off CL though I'll absolutely sticker it up.
My vote is she's in a school program or something that requires macos stuff and grabbed it second hand off someone on the cheap.
Apple products can be surprisingly cheap to win on eBay too. I never hunted macbooks, but grabbed earlier Gen Ipads for dirt cheap with good batteries. Unfortunately I learned tablets are not really that much of a convenience when you you're willing to sacrifice your eyesight out of laziness to do the same thing on your smartphone... plus the lack of apps is frustrating, but even less frustrating than the excel navigation...
Depends on the model and distro. First time I did it was when I grabbed a Mint usb installer when I meant to grab a Mojave one for a 2012 Macbook Pro. I had to install wifi drivers with the ethernet plugged in. The 2013 one with Mint 21 worked without any extra effort.
Your not allowed to have things if you don't support capitalism, you must live like a preindustrial peasant or else you are a hypocrite. /s
Really a fucken mac and a cup of coffee is trivial compared to billionaires and their private jets and mega yachts.
1200$ isn't even that much for a luxury item jeez and its not even really a luxury item. For an absolute fuck load of jobs, as well as online billing and banking and a whole host of other crap its 100% a requirement to own your own laptop. Yes it would be great if that wasn't necessary, hence the anti capitalism, but individuals fucking themselves over by trying to pointlessly abstain from participating is not going to solve things.
I don't drive, I don't own a car, I fucking hate cars, but I don't shit on people who have one because I understand its necessary for them. And even with me trying to abstain I still end up dependent on cars a lot and in a lot of ways it fucking makes my life more difficult. I am fucking mad at the systems that made that a requirement not at the people who are just trying to survive in the system. Its not magic how we ended up here, people in power made choices.
Thats what's so annoying about these lines of reasoning is you get accused of hypocrisy if you don't intentionally make your life shit
1200$ isn’t even that much for a luxury item jeez and its not even really a luxury item. For an absolute fuck load of jobs, as well as online billing and banking and a whole host of other crap its 100% a requirement to own your own laptop.
hot take: maybe im a tech nerd and this is why, but i would feel genuinely bad if i spent more than like 300-500 dollars on a laptop.
An Apple laptop is just a totally inappropriate amount of money spent on a laptop for the overwhelming majority of use cases.
If you really want to smash capitalism buy used gear and run Linux
Edit: OP's edit about no ethical consumption is true in the strictest sense, but there are degrees of both consumption and morality and Apple is one of the worst companies on the planet with respect to both. Apple uses its money to very actively attack worthy causes like Right to Repair, throws their immense weight around to enforce monopolies, and just generally is an active detriment to society in the long-term.
Yes I know much of that doesn't matter under a non-capitalist production and labour model but OP's point is that this is the world we live in at the moment and that's exactly what I'm commenting on: you can make things suck less by not supporting this garbage wherever possible. Better yet, actively support advocacy organizations like those backing Right to Repair.
What's nice about apple is that they use high enough quality components that it lasts awhile. I'm the kind of guy to drive a Honda until it's just about dead before buying another. I bought my MacBook pro in I think 2011 (maybe 2013, I can't remember). It still runs fine. The battery is not worth much, maybe 30 minutes. But I have no real reason to replace it. Everything is fine.
Compared to when I had cheap laptops before, I think I went through 3 in a span of 6 years.
I'm guessing the key here is getting a laptop with high quality components that isn't apple, but I don't know which ones are actually good, and which are just artificially expensive laptops. Reviews don't help too much either because so many are fake, and also that I don't think many people keep their laptops 10+ years to compare longevity. I will probably go buy another apple when mine finally dies.
One of the places I worked had a nice little Thinkpad that was light AF and even had a touchscreen. You could still replace the SSD and RAM without tools. It also was durable as hell.
There is no reason for parts in an Apple computer to be soldered other than planned obsolescence and making it impossible to repair.
And I would wager that the vast majority of people have no idea how to upgrade RAM or change an SSD, and many would be afraid to even attempt it, so weight is of much bigger importance to them.
that would be me with my $150 kitted out ebay special thinkpad (ignore that i own four of them, they're spare parts and i can gift them to people. They're good laptops)
somewhere, in a place, i don't like business establishments.
i did a display swap on my w520 last night, it's running a 1080p display now. Paired with my t520 with a 1366 display i've got a really good combination of mobile productivity machines. One for writing, one for work.
If everyone is going to be paid fairly for their labor, plenty of electronics are going to dramatically rise in price, as they rely in materials that are often obtained through people working in miserable conditions, sometimes reaching extremes such as child slavery.
I for one am willing to pay more if that means we fight against the abuse generated by this system.
On the other hand producing a smaller variety of modular devices means you need less people overall supporting the same level of industry. Making designs open source and parts available means devices can be made to last longer than they previously did, requiring less manufacturing in the long-term. While I'm not sure where the equilibrium between this and other factors comes down, it ultimately leads to better working conditions and better devices so I'll take it.
To be fair, no system is perfect. Allowing people to both disconnect and be better at least acknowledges that the society needs both an eye inside and an eye from outside in order to improve
I love it when people use the absolute-unethical capitalism comment when we do have initiatives out in the world that are progressing to indeed bring better conditions to workers or help solve other problems.
See the following, in no particular order; also note that most of this is with reference to textiles, but some overlap with other sectors:
United Nations (aka Global Compact, Global Compact on Migration, Global Compact on Refugees)
OEKO-TEX
The Textile Exchange
Forest Stewardship Council
Science Based Targets Initiative
Global Standard (aka GOTS)
International Accreditation Forum (aka ISO)
SEDEX (aka SMETA)
PETA
Good Jobs First
Fairtrade Labelling Organization International (aka FairTrade)
B Lab
Bluesign Technologies
Social Accountability International
Climate Neutral
amfori (aka BSCI)
Worldwide Responsible Accredited Production (aka WRAP)
1% For The Planet
Cradle to Cradle Products Innovation Institute
Sustainable Apparel Coalition
Stichting ZHDC Foundation
Fair Wear Foundation
Global Green USA
Global Reporting Initiative (aka GRI) via Corporate Register
Regenerative Organic Alliance (aka ROC)
Better Cotton Initiative (aka BCI)
CELC Developpement (aka European Flax™, Masters of Linen™ Certified)
Belgian Flax & Linen Association (aka Belgian Linen™ Certified)
European Union (aka Ecolabel Certified)
United States of America (aka USDA Organic)
American Apparel and Footwear Association
Canopy Planet
Ecological and Toxicological Association of Dyes and Organic Pigments Manufacturers (aka ETAD)
Better Work aka International Labor Organization aka United Nations / International Finance, Corporation aka World Bank Group
Open Supply Hub
TÜV AUSTRIA
International Association of Better Business Bureau
Business & Human Rights Resource Centre
U.S. Green Building Council (aka USGBC)
CSP Worldwide (auditor)
Ecovadis (auditor)
MSCI (auditor)
Sustainalytics (auditor)
I'm sure there are plenty of others out there, but I think at least for the textile sector, there is a consorted effort towards a better economy for workers, users, and the planet. See also Fairphone and their FarTrade Gold program, as well as Framework laptops.
The "have no choice" argument is extremely thin nowadays and letting it fly is just leaking ignorance or at times hipocricy. Anyone living in the first world has an option to help and just want to blame the elite that are the offender. The assailants that enjoy the disparity in the world obviously aren't going to do anything about it so it is just convenient whine
Lmao participate in capitalism or die! That means you should spend all your money on the most expensive version of all your luxury items instead of using an old PC and making coffee at home. Internet hard-lefties need to take a look in the mirror, go outside, and readjust their priorities. Its these jokers that leftists get lumped in with that make us look bad. Yes, the original picture in this post is hilarious and ironic for all the same reasons it was originally posted, and I say that as someone who might agree with most of the laptop person's political views
So a perspective I haven’t seen here yet: in many places, Starbucks is the only suitable third space left. I.e. place that is not work/school or home. I have non-Starbucks cafes nearby, but due to astronomical and increasing rent for all the independent cafes in walking distance, they are in smaller buildings and they can’t afford to have people sitting for hours on laptops using the WiFi/talking to friends/reading a book. I still support my local cafes for food and coffee, or really short meetings with folks, but if I need to get out of the house and spend time in public where I’m not obligated to speedrun my coffee, Starbucks is The Choice.
And that’s why i might be inside of a Starbucks while hating capitalism. Because capitalism made Starbucks the only corporation able to afford proper cafe space.
(There is a library nearby, yes, but not with good space for sitting down and working on a laptop. And even having THAT Is a massive privilege)
(Also I actually do have a MacBook that I do my personal stuff on, because of various bits of software i need that are OS specific, which is annoying as heck but i got used to my work mac anyways and then found a nice one used… so yeah.)
Vaguely related.. reminding me of my struggle as I research investing in new laptop.
Looking for something powerful enough for live DJ, live music production performance with groove box, keyboard, etc, ideally graphic design sufficient as well. Want ability to move my crafts to a buddy's studio or a proper gig.
Big needs of course are robust processing power/ram, loads of storage ideal, battery life a big plus, quieter than gaming PC preferred, lots of ports a must, and goddammit I want it to last more than a few years before it declines sharply.
I really don't want an Apple. Been there; done that; over it. College graphic design machine had a graphic card that crapped out extra early. Plenty of spots would recommend Apple. Haven't gone too deep on Linux so no idea if software and live performance will work on that consistently and reliably. Generally use mostly Windows 10 these days.
If anyone has any insights or recommendations on a lappy that checks my boxes I am all ears and eager for discussion!
Take a look at the Framework 16. You can add a graphics card and the whole laptop is designed to be upgradeable in the same way a desktop is. Basically you buy the laptop and then replace or upgrade parts as you need to, no more need to buy a whole new rig every few years.
now, i really only recommend this is if you dont mind spending a while getting yourself familiar with the lineup, and the used market, but i would recommend looking for a solid used thinkpad. I'm preferential to the t/w 420 or 520 series, you can get them in pretty decent condition for pretty cheap, though some of the newer ones are quite a bit more modern. They aren't super flexible on ports, but they have a significant variety, as well as a number of integrated features. And of course docking stations, though im not sure if those disable on board ports or not.
the t480 does also have a really cool feature where it has two batteries, one internal, and one external, and you can swap the external one as needed, so you basically have infinite battery life lol. The newer ones are alright, they don't adhere to the design language of the older thinkpads though.
The framework is a very solid bet if you want a no frills machine that's modern though, can rep. They cost money though.
Big ups for the thoughtful write up! I'll be sure to add that to my list as I dig in deeper.
I'm graciously able to say I'm finally, finally at a stage where I have a lil extra fun money to play with. No Daddy Warbucks, but we can actually think about toys I've had on the wish list for ages. For something that I'll be using for gigs I'm absolutely able to see value investing in something that will help me hone my craft.
Certainly in no rush; I'd rather measure twice and purchase once. (Well maybe a bit of a rush lol that summer fomo will kick into high gear any minute now fuck me it's basically April lol)
Both points sort of miss the mark, though the lower one moreso imo.
You don't need and $7 coffee and you don't need a $1200 laptop. You won't die without either. They are conveniences, and relying upon or expecting them is consumerism, a social manipulation tool of capitalism. Nothing is stopping you from directly opposing consumerism through your actions-- you don't need to buy their coffee, you don't need to buy their laptops.
If you're truly against late-stage capitalism, you should be exploring actions you are comfortable taking to disempower it, not complacently feed into it. Maybe make your own coffee, or quit the stuff. Maybe buy an old laptop and install FOSS software on it. Maybe just buy recently-last-gen parts second-hand and build exactly the computer you need for less money than you'd spend on something you only sort of like from a manufacturer whose monopolistic behaviors you disagree with.
All I've got to say in the end is that there are options, and doomer complacency is meaningless and counterproductive.
In response to your edit, there's a difference between being forced to buy products that employ slave labor and choosing to buy something that is extremely overpriced because of capitalism. Yes you need to live within the system, but that doesn't mean you buy the most expensive and wasteful version and then claim "well I had no choice!". You have choices. You're just being willfully ignorant of them and shifting the blame to someone else. Heaven forbid you become part of the solution and not just another addition to the problem.
Seeing so many responses like this to the edit makes me happy. This is the intellectually consistent position imo: if you're going to take the position that "this is the world we live in" (which is valid) then you must also accept that there are degrees of consumption and actively choosing one of the worst ones without a strong rationale is less moral.
Yeah, BS. If you choose to buy an apple product, new or used, you are still supporting capitalism even if in name only. The product is almost synonymous with pursuing a social cache rather than just useful and mundane functionality.
"artificially inflated in value"? I'd like to see someone's proposal for how they plan on making a high end laptop and a fancy drink made by someone else, which also comes with wifi and a nice place to sit any cheaper.
I wouldn't buy them but they're not artificially inflated.
Edit: wait where is the Starbucks? I don't see it in the pic
Artificially inflated as in the way that the price of a taco at Taco Bell has doubled since 1990 when accounting for inflation. If things were more expensive to pay workers better, people wouldn't care. But the federal minimum wage is currently set at 2 McDonald's hashbrowns an hour and prices have increased faster than inflation in most sectors in the chase of infinite growth.
You don't need a Mac though, in fact in most circumstances using a Mac actively makes performing computer necessary tasks harder than just using the local library computers.
Mac is the bougie flex of choosing to be less productive for the sake of brand clout.