You should be able to ask "I want a CIS mate" in a dating app without being shamed.
You should be able to ask "I want a CIS mate" in a dating app without being shamed.
There's this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you're a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it's not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the "if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice" is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.
First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let's get that out of the way. This isn't a foot in the door for "trans this really isn't that" narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.
And yes, there's plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don't think it's racist if a woman says she doesn't want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn't more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don't want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.
Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn't. That's not fair to you and you're denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They're going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: "If you loved me for real this wouldn't bother you"... that's not going to convince anyone. They're either going to leave, or they'll resent you forever. That's just how it is. You can be mad at that but that's about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There's just no way to win once you've gone down that road.
"I want a CIS mate" is not the same as "trans women are not women" - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn't be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.
The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people's right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it's not going to end well for you. All you're going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don't want to. And that's not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don't imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.
Locked as transphobia seems to be pretty common in the comments.
I'm a transwoman and I agree with you on this. When I was dating, I was upfront and when a guy said it was a deal breaker, it saved both of us a lot of time.
Most guys I talked to said it was a dealbreaker, and yeah it sucks. It makes you feel "othered." But I can't expect anyone to go outside their sexual comfort zone for a rando on Tinder.
Most of the guys were very polite about it all, too. And that's all you should need to do.
If someone's shaming you about it, that's a good sign they have something going on in their own life. Essentially it's their problem, not yours.
Hope this helps~
Thank you for your response. I feel I must repeat in case it is ambiguous: I am absolutely against any form of trans shaming whatsoever. If you want to date a trans person, you should be 100% free to do so without negative social consequence.
Not ambiguous. You're good 😜
Oh boy do I have a load of dumb questions, if you'll humor me? For context, I'm a middle-aged, cis, white guy. Dated a lot the last few years, settled down and just married the finest woman I've ever known.
What does "transwoman" mean? LOL, I don't even know how to approach this. For me, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck, good enough. I'd date a transwoman that was, uh, "completely" a woman. Gods I hope you know what I mean.
OK, I'll go with my wife, maybe clear it up. She's a Filipina, unapologetically feminine. All else being the same, if she had been born with a penis, wouldn't care. Among 100 other things, I so love her femininity.
Am I embarrassing myself? Sure feels like it. Never had any trans friends, or even known any trans folks. Anyhow, I hope you understand I'm on your side, all the way. (That's not a cutesy slogan. I train, I carry, I mean it with all my heart. If it comes to it, no one is going on a train if I can help it.)
No shame, my friend. People are still deciding/learning what accurate yet inoffensive terms are okay to use in a given situation. You care enough to be aware of the issue, and to me, that’s the most important thing.
Congratulations on your wedding!
I think that you likely have met trans folks but were not aware. Hell, they may not have been aware. Relative to us cis people, they are a minority of human population, but trans people are everywhere. Keep rocking your allyship and make your acceptance of everyone for who they are clear, and you might find you have people around you that feel comfortable sharing. Also keep in mind that it can be physically very dangerous for them to share who they are.
Congratulations on being married!
A transwoman (my best interpretation) means someone born male who took hormones to become female, and maybe an operation to exchange a penis for a vagina. A transwoman is completely a woman, they were just not assigned female at birth.
All else being the same, if she had been born with a penis, wouldn’t care. Among 100 other things, I so love her femininity.
See, I support this freedom to choose who you want to be with.
Am I embarrassing myself? Sure feels like it. Never had any trans friends, or even known any trans folks. Anyhow, I hope you understand I’m on your side, all the way. (That’s not a cutesy slogan. I train, I carry, I mean it with all my heart. If it comes to it, no one is going on a train if I can help it.)
Well it's not like half the populace is trans. They make up at most 3% of the overall population. There are whole regions of America where they don't exist or are very much hiding who they are. You may have a trans friend and not even know it.
BTW do you have any connection to the John Brown gun club? I'm not close friends with their members but just wondering.
Man I guess I'm a bigot, and I'm frustrated about it.
I get the phrase "transwomen are women" and respect that perspective.
But if I were seeking a cis woman partner who is seeking a cis man, it would be a dealbreaker if they were trans.
So I'm confronted with the reality that if I want to believe trans women are women, I shouldn't be able to hold my second opinion, but it feels like one that can't budge.
How to reconcile?
on the flip side, people should be able to say they want a trans partner.
real talk though, no one should be deceiving anyone if they plan to start a healthy relationship with someone, period.
I'm stealth trans in public and don't feel it's necessary to come out to every one i meet or even work with. But if I'm flirting with someone or know someone has an interest in me, I respect them enough to let them know.
it all comes back to the idea that you don't need to know what someone's genitals look like unless you plan on fucking them.
I think I that's a concept that cis straight people don't get. You don't come out once. You have a big coming out, once, to friends and family. Then every new person you meet, you decide whether to tell them outright, whether to subtly tell them, or whether you don't tell them. Each time, you're considering if you'll meet them again, if it serves a purposes of it feels like hiding, your safety, whether it will affect their opinion of you and so be to your disadvantage etc. It's tiring.
Is it not more tiring to come out to someone you're more emotionally invested in, though?
There's obviously the safety issues that the OP mentioned, but wouldn't it be easier to not have to deal with an eventual reveal?
Why invest the time and energy into someone who has that much higher a chance that they'll deny you when you come out?
I have a pretty small sample size, but it feels like the next generation doesn't feel that way. My 13-year-old daughter is queer and so are some of her friends and it doesn't occur to them most of the time that her peers might judge them for it. We did have to take my daughter out of school for severe bullying- because they were calling her a furry (she committed the sin of wearing spiked collars) and spreading rumors that she was racist. She got nothing for being queer.
She's doing an English project right now and she had to pick an event from history and talk about how it impacted today and I suggested Stonewall. She was pretty baffled about the whole thing. She understood conceptually that being queer was so hated and so dangerous in the 1960s, but she really had no idea.
I told her yesterday about how, even when I was in middle school in 1989-1991, there were no kids out of the closet. When I got to high school, there were a handful of very brave kids who were out and they got beaten up a lot. There was one trans girl and that was because she could pass and didn't let most people know. Same-gendered couples were not allowed at prom. Even kids (and teachers who could get fired for it) who were undeniably queer hid it from everyone. Two people in my friend circle who were so gay they were on fire didn't admit it until college. Both times, it was a "well, duh" moment when they came out, but that's how scared they were to come out.
And, of course, if they did come out, they couldn't get married if they found someone they loved.
She doesn't know how bad it all was even when I was a kid and I'm so glad of that. I just hope Trump doesn't turn it all around.
on the flip side, people should be able to say they want a trans partner.
Yes, absolutely, I mentioned that part already. Freedom goes both ways. No one should be shamed for choosing to date a trans partner.
That last sentence really hit the nail on the head.
on the flip side, people should be able to say they want a trans partner.
Eh, either or. Depends on user experience and if "What do you want" is going to take less time to fill than "What don't you want". But there should definitely be something ensuring people's time isn't wasted or feelings hurt because sexual preferences aren't equally considered.
You should, of course, have your preferences, and your deal-breakers, and whatever else. So if you find someone you are interested in is trans, and that's a deal-breaker for you, that's fine.
But there is a difference between that and putting in your bio "No Trans People." Is being trans your only deal-breaker? What makes that a deal-breaker worth calling out, but not others? Before you put "No Trans" in your profile, I would ask you to consider that, if you are an athletic person and want an athletic person, would "No fat women" be something you would feel comfortable putting in your bio (even if that was a deal-breaker for you)? What would you think of someone who puts "No black people" in their bio?
If they have any sense, they will let you know either in their profile, in conversation before-hand, or during the first date or so (before things get intimate), and you can politely end things, just like if you found out they were Scientologists or several levels up in an MLM (or both). Hell, it may take until a third date, like finding out they don't just like, but can relate to Olivia Rodrigo's music. (In fairness, those three were objectively bad, but I don't know any of your non-trans related preferences, so I had to go with some things most people should consider deal-breakers).
The point is, people look for and look out for a lot of things, but I only ever hear people complain about it being rude to put "No trans." It kind of makes it clear that the person saying it has a particular issue beyond just dating preferences.
Tact does matter. That is why I say "seeking cis man/woman" is better than "no trans man/woman". "No black people" is bad, "prefer SWM/SWF" is better and acceptable IMO (disclaimer: I'm black), "looking for athletic man/woman" is better than "no fat people", etc., just my opinion.
I take your point, and agree. The positive (as opposed to the "No xxxx") seems generally to be more polite.
You can change your weight. You can't change who you are. Lesbians don't want men. People not attracted to trans people cannot just chose to be attracted to them. And I have no oreferencws but do understand that sexuality is not something you chose.
Before you put “No Trans” in your profile, I would ask you to consider that, if you are an athletic person and want an athletic person, would “No fat women” be something you would feel comfortable putting in your bio (even if that was a deal-breaker for you)?
I can see if someone is overweight, of a certain skin color or whatever other visible indicators you mention, and simply not like their profile, so a match would not occur.
I cannot (necessarily) see if someone is trans, so a match would potentially still happen.
So mentioning the "obvious" can be seen as harmful since you are effectively calling people out, while mentioning the "invisible" is merely stating a preference to reduce false positives.
It would be the same as sexuality? If you're a straight bloke you'd want a cis woman, it's not comparable to race or fitness. It's about sexual compatibility.
Every single thing you've said demands specific rebuttal. But I think it would be exhausting and you're not worth it.
Nearly everything you compare is actually a visible trait, where being trans isn't. Nobody's going to be tricked into dating anybody they don't want when all the attributes are visible up-front. I can SEE if somebody is athletic. I can SEE if somebody is black. I can SEE if somebody is obese.
Quit pretending there's something wrong with having preferences. You're delusional and you have no right to pretend that anybody owes anybody anything except honesty up-front in a dating context.
You actually think somebody who is not interested in a trans person OWES a trans person a date "just in case". Frankly, get your head out of your ass.
Not sure if you stopped reading halfway through, but I mentioned 2 clearly visible things and 3 not visible things, specifically because I recognize it's not immediately obvious from pictures.
Or maybe you started reading on the second paragraph, because I clearly said it's fine having preferences (including trans or not). I also never said anything about "owing" a trans person a date, just in case or otherwise. There's no problem with it being a deal breaker. You're reading things I didn't say.
I think it's telling, though, that you use the word "tricked." It shows, like my whole comment was saying, that you view being trans as different from other deal breakers, if you think somebody going on a date with a person they didn't realize was trans was the trans person "tricking" them.
You may be right, but if someone writes "no trans people" or "no d*cks smaller than 25cm" or "no crybabies" or "no n*ggers", then if you are some of the mentioned, you wouldn't want to communicate to that person anyway. If you are not, then you still likely wouldn't.
It's a natural flow of communication in my opinion. Let people write what they want.
This isn't a first amendment issue, or an issue of what people should be allowed to say. It's a question of etiquette, and not being rude. The thing is, saying each of those things would drive away more than just those specifically excluded.
To give a better example, if I were on a dating site and saw a woman who said "No guys under 6 ft," and I were taller than 6 ft, I still wouldn't want anything to do with that woman. It give a completely different vibe, however, to say "I really like tall guys." I get, though, that there's not a positive equivalent for the original question.
Many women already put "over 6 foot only" or "only swipe if you have abs" so why not let people filter out what they don't want before wasting time and money and emotion on a date and talking
And they are wrong for that as well. That sounds like someone I wouldn’t want to be friends with or date bc they reduced someone down to their body parts and not who they are as a person.
Abs do not define someone, abs don’t make someone a better person or have a better personality.
would "No fat women" be something you would feel comfortable putting in your bio (even if that was a deal-breaker for you)?
Why not? Women can put "no short people/manlets" why can't I put "no fatties/giantesses?" I fail to see how they differ.
What makes that a deal-breaker worth calling out, but not others?
Being trans doesn't necessarily show outwards unlike being fat would. If I'm looking for a guy that doesn't automatically mean this includes FTM.
Whataboutism much?
Who, exactly, is saying that having a sexual preference is bigoted? I've heard rumors about this argument, but never encountered it in the wild.
The who in question is a man made of straw
Admittedly it's been a few years but I had this argument on Reddit and caught a ban from a handful of subs for hate speech for arguing that not wanting a trans partner was not the same thing as being anti trans.
I don't remember my exact phrasing, I did then and still do believe that trans rights are human rights, that trans people are in real danger at no fault of their own, and that their healthcare is important and should start early. But that doesn't mean I can be attracted to someone I know is trans, and I think that being trans should be divulged in a relationship, and divulged early.
That's a viewpoint that some, and I use the term lightly, radical activists don't want to hear, and will absolutely accuse you of transphobia. That doesn't mean it's common, or that the community at large agrees with it. But there are individuals who espouse that nonsense.
Reddit is full of two things. Bigots of every variety and bots. Don’t take social media of any sort as a reflection of reality, it’s not. So much of it is bots designed to create social division now. Then the bigots come out to reply to the bots.
Serious question - you said “But that doesn’t mean I can be attracted to someone I know is trans”
Why is this? Based on what you said wrote here you seemed to be able to be attracted to them before you know they are trans but the moment you find out that they are trans, you no longer are attracted to them.
If you reduce someone down to their features and say I can’t date you bc you have XYZ features, but you are perfect in every other way and just what I am looking for in a woman, but I can’t date you bc of that. How is reducing someone to something that is out of their control not phobic?
My other question is this - post op transwoman, would you still be attracted to her if you knew she had bottom surgery and no longer had a penis?
Personally, I have encountered in an odd situation. Gay dating app, trans woman being friendly, so I was friendly back, but told her I wasn't interested. She went ballistic, saying how I could live the dream, have a straight looking relationship, that surely a masc guy like me wanted that, and that I could still get dick with her, and when I told her that was not what I was looking for, at all, she went into the rant, calling me transphobic and saying that I was discriminating her.
I just blocked her and I will never be entirely sure if it was a troll or not.
Look at the apps, most these days will not permit you to exclude trans from your criteria
💀
I keep catching this opinion on "unpopular opinion" groups, and that's it.
Literally nobody is saying this. OP is just doing a transpanic.
Am I weird in that I think it's weird to announce that kind of thing on a dating profile? Like, I'm on all the dating apps and people generally don't get access to me until there's a mutual agreement to match, right? Unless you're swiping on everyone or they're actively trying to hide it, are you matching with a lot of trans folk? Are you so inundated by these matches that you feel the need to announce these preferences up front? I can't imagine it's so many that you can't just have a polite conversation when it comes up and explain the preference? It's the whole need to announce it, knowing how it could come off, that makes people question the intent. If you were at the bar and someone you're attracted to comes up to talk, do you stop them and say "before you go any further, know that I only date cis people."?
Many of your points here are spot on. There's not a lot of trans people as a percentage of the populace. Maybe like 2-3% tops, so you're right, you're not going to run into hordes of trans people while swiping. And many of those do NOT want to hide who they are short term and are loathe to just up and hide it from a date long term. Let's make it clear there's no movement to trick people into dating trans people, to *further *derail any right wingers reading this to get their rageohol fix.
You are also right about the etiquette of it all. Tact and timing are important. "Before you go any further I only date cis people" is idiocy. But the fact is a lot of people do not want to date trans people and that's their right. We have to come to a happy medium where we respect that but (to address your legit and underlying concern) don't also let this "trans people are everywhere looking to trick us into dating them OMFG RUNNNNN!!" hysteria genie out of the bottle. I am definitely NOT here to foment that.
I'm here reading comments just to get a better understanding of a topic I've never really thought much about (haven't been in the dating world for a long while) but I just had to stop and comment, I'm loving the positive and constructive discussion there is here.
I'm genderfluid and I agree with you. Cis people shouldn't be tricked, manipulated or emotionally blackmailed into copulating with us just because we want a partner. Partners do have the right to know whether we're cis, trans or nonbinary.
one is a preference
Maybe for some. But for most it's not even a preference it is a sexual orientation. A preference can be negotiated. A sexual orientation is just the way that you are.
Honest question, why is there a difference between preference and orientation? If I'm ordering pizza and ask you for your topping preference, you'd tell me pepperoni, for instance. You don't get to choose what your preference is, it's just what you prefer. There may be reasons you have that preference (the taste of pepperoni, you don't like mushrooms, etc.), but it's not a conscious decision to prefer pepperoni, it's just what you like. I couldn't negotiate with you to make you like mushrooms over pepperoni, it's something you have to discover on your own.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't understand why there's a difference.
Well you don't identify with preferring pepperoni, while you do with being attracted to men or women or both. So that's a difference, although maybe not a fundamental one – I see your question as absolutely fair. Maybe we use two words – preference and orientation – to describe two different experiences, one implying identification and the other not.
I'm straight, by orientation not preference. Sex with women literally doesn't feel like sex, even doing the same stuff I'd do with a guy. It's not distressing , it's nothing, more like performance. You can be hungry and eat pepperoni and it will feel like eating. I do find many women beautiful, and sexy but nope, don't want to do them.
A preference is more like "I really prefer women but was stuck on this boat with only dudes, Tim is nice and good looking, it was fun."
I hope this isn't actually an unpopular opinion. People objectively have a type of what they do and don't want. Specification is a good thing and will help people find their match faster. The last thing a person, either trans or not trans would want, is to spend time with someone who will never work for them.
The underlying issue is that dating apps just need better filters. An ideal one would be were you could filter out any deal breakers.
I'm trans. I think the reason people get upset is because of the reason behind the preference. That reason can be totally valid, to totally shitty, and people assume either the best or the worst depending on their perspective usually. A trans person seeing this might assume "oh boy another transphobe" while a cis person would think "yep and I won't date a person who owns cats because I'm deadly allergic" and carry on.
On top of that a blanket "I won't date trans people" rule tends to ignore "outliers" like nonbinary, intersex, or gender fluid people, which can feel pretty bad when the underlying reason doesn't fit the actual real life scenario you might be in.
Here's a few reasons behind the preference that I can think of:
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I'm straight and want bio kids - Fair enough, either your partner is cis or they aren't compatible for that goal, or you're getting into the nonbinary grey area.
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I don't want to deal with the extra baggage, potential judgement from peers, or mental/physical health comorbidities that come with transition - kinda bleh but its your choice and only you can really decide what you're willing to invite on yourself, but it feels crappy for trans people who definitely didn't ask to be trans either.
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I'm attracted to specific genital configurations - that's your preference, but it sort of ignores any post op trans people, which feels really shitty if as a trans person you've done this major surgery to be happier and more yourself, and people just assume you haven't, and won't talk to or engage with you over something you already changed, through a very intensive and difficult process. Overall though genital preferences are perfectly fine, people just don't like saying "I only like penis" because it sounds weird, so they substitute "I only like cis men" thinking that's a less awkward alternative.
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I don't think trans people are who they identify as - real shit and the kind of people most are actually mad at when people day "I won't date trans people.
Anyways, I'm sure there are more, but the point I'm trying to make is, saying you won't date trans people is just kinda vague. Many people will assume the worst, which is on them, but it would help to clarify and be clear about what your real preference is, or why you have it. For instance "I want to have bio kids someday, so if we aren't compatible on that level then that is a dealbreaker" or "I'm straight and I'm only interested in Cis or post op trans women" which with a couple extra words clearly portrays that its a genital preference without explicitly saying it.
TLDR: having preferences is perfectly fine but when people judge you it's because it isn't clear why you have that preference, and usually ignores outliers. Clarification, while maybe a bit longer or more complicated, would eliminate the anger in most cases. The people who still get upset are likely to be angry no matter what.
Thank you for this response. I can totally understand your points. The true transphobes out there have given a bad name for anyone who only dates CIS people.
Rather than pushing to have people explain why they prefer CIS only to show they're not transphobes, I would propose a compromise: these same people should not be questioned about their preferences but they also should not offended by trans people or those who date them. Help make a society where trans people aren't second class citizens. Though some people will say "only dating CIS people makes trans people second class citizens no matter the reason" and I really can't hope to satisfy them. I think we go down a dangerous road if we start demanding why someone doesn't want to date someone else and they haven't given off OTHER bigoted vibes.
I don't think there's a solution that is going to make everyone happy but I'm willing to join the dialog (in good faith) to keep tinkering until we find the best one that respects everyone's freedom of choice.
Oh yeah, the assumption of bad intentions is not a good thing either, I generally try to assume the best of people when other signs of ill intent are missing, so I totally get it. I just point out the clarification aspect for if you want to head off the more defensive folks at the pass is all.
The main problem with this is: Nobody should have to justify or explain anything.
The oddest thing about this whole post is that people who may or may not have been in a group that was attacked or judged over who they are are... attacking and judging people over who they are. It makes no sense to me.
Trans people are marginalized af. Speaking as a black man, I am familiar with how that works. They're scared and they see where the roots of murdering trans people come from. It comes from people who say "Ewwww trans". Our society shames people who date trans people.
Remember that Married With Children episode where Bud Bundy dated a woman who mentioned him as her love and then came out on TV as trans and it destroyed him emotionally, and it was implied his almost non-existent social standing was put out of its misery for good by that incident? That's Truth in Television. Also see that quote/insult in the movie Aliens: "oh but the one you had was male!" (implying genderfluid/trans/etc). That's our real life society right now.
When a trans person attacks and judges someone over who they refuse to date, that's a reaction to being oppressed. It's wrong, it's ironic, but the fear behind it is justified. Calling out and fighting this ironic hypocrisy cannot stand alone, it must be accompanied by a validation and understanding of their fear, which is legitimate, and an increased effort to stop the hate that is fueling their fear. We've seen what happens over and over again when we fail to pair the two together: the legitimately aggrieved group (and more than one group does this) starts saying "we're laughing at you as a class and you're afraid of being a target of that, but we're afraid of you killing us" and dialog aimed at achieving meaningful progress toward equality takes a big fat hit due to the unnecessary antagonism.
Not looking for a partner anymore anyway, but the first one is my only reason. If we got to a point medically/scientifically where bio kids were possible then that sole reason would go away.
I'm fine ending up with no kids because I and/or my partner are infertile and we don't know yet, but I'm not fine starting a relationship wanting something that the other person knows I can't have with them and not telling me until later.
Honestly I think it would be helpful if the dating apps just had some hidden questions like "are you interested in having kids?" and if yes also asked "do you want biological kids?" and if you answer them your potential matches are automatically filtered down. I have two rationales for this, 1. because it frees up space in bio and keeps your preferences semi-private, and 2. it avoids potentially awkward conversations or other potentially awkward public judgemental. (I'm guessing there aren't already questions like this.)
Bullet 3: a post op vagina isn't a vagina. It could be great, very satisfying, convincing, whatever,... but it potentially isn't the exact biological "thing" you are seeking.
I'm not discrediting people who have taken a step to align themselves, or judging, but a surgery result simply isn't a birth result.
Is this logically consistent? I'm not trying to cut down, but it could be possible that "the right shape" isn't enough to qualify someone's "attracted to specific genital configuration"
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How the hell does this have so many downvotes? Surely not from the crowd that preaches consent and freedom of choice?
Nah I'm guessing because it's a popular opinion
Cause its kinda shallow and why should it be the trans persons problem, not them who cares. Like we could also mandate everyone's birthday has to be put cause 'I dont want to date a capricorn'
It just follows the type of idea that its the trans persons 'problem'
But yeah still why the down votes dont we upvote unpopular opnions
Bc OP reduced someone down to their anatomy. Literally perfect woman and exactly their type is right in front of them. Cute face, slim waist with a big behind… but the only reason you don’t want to date them is bc of their anatomy? That’s the part where it moves across the line.
You have reduced this person down to what’s in their pants and not who they are, their personality, their hobbies, etc… you have reduced them to a feature of their body.
Imagine if someone said I don’t want to date someone with a cleft lip bc if we have kids that could be passed down through genetics.
It’s the same thing here.
I understand the danger of revealing trans status. I also understand that it can be even more dangerous to be discovered as trans after a relationship develops with a partner who is violently transphobic. Back in the 80's I was in the Navy. One of the guys on my ship was arrested for attempted murder. The woman he was dating didn't reveal she was trans and he found out when they became intimate. He threw her off a second story balcony after beating her.
My question is why anyone would want to initiate a relationship with another person unless their prospective partner was accepting of them? I'd at least bring up the subject in an indirect manner to judge their response.
Same as any communication though I suppose, what if someone violently hates webkinz and their partner has a household of them?
Its never OK to throw them off a balcony for it, so reasonable precautions must be taken to vet webkinz haters for ones safety, but also it sucks those people exist - so let's try and put the burden on those bad people, not the already struggling trans people who have enough on their plate (on average of course, every person is different)
(not implying you disagree with this, just wanted to make it more explicit ig)
I think the trickiest part is that trans people generally have spent a lot more time thinking about their sexuality and identity than most cis people. Most cis people (or at least cishet) have put basically 0 thought into it. They cant articulate better than "straight", and if you probe further they would just say "I like men/women". They cant fully identifyor explain what it is about the opposite sex specifically they are attracted to because they often havent had to think about it ever. And if genitals are a factor in that attraction, then it may be pretty important. Some people may be able to see past that. Some may not. But we shouldn't force someone to date somebody they arent attracted to, even if they cant eloquently fully explain why they arent attracted.
100% with you!
I got emails from a dating coach dude, 20 years before the whole thing went toxic as fuck. And he had a lot of sane advice!
One thing he harped on was, "Attraction is not a choice."
Well, it's not. And that should be obvious with a bit of reflection.
I knew I was into Wonder Woman when I was six. Also... learned I was into bondage.
Point being, no one instructed a 6-yo who or how or why or what causes a boner. To be cliche, it just is. It's not a thing we should have to examine in ourselves. (Unless acting on that attraction harms others.)
Just roll with it, but understand that others aren't wired the same way. And understand that's OK, because no one made a choice to be attracted.
Not providing this anecdote as a rebuttal, just as food for thought since I've barely seen anyone mention this.
I have put a lot of thought into my sexuality/identity, but regardless of all of those thoughts my articulation will boil down to:
I want bio kids, until we can modify the genetic material of eggs/sperm so that two people of the same biological gender can have a biological child, my only option is someone with the opposite reproductive organs.
It doesn't matter how much I am attracted to someone, I won't roll loaded dice on having kids. If my partner and I discovered when we finally try to have kids that one or both of us is sterile, then so be it — but I'd like the dice we roll to not have a known outcome ahead of time.
I think that's definitely not a rebuttal (edit: we're in agreement about things): You've put a lot of thought into things and you can pretty eloquently explain exactly why you have the preferences you have.
Perhaps "attraction" was not the right word for me to use. It might be more of "what you want out of a relationship, both emotionally, and physically"...
If you weren't looking for a long term relationship, and kids weren't even in the question, these things still apply to a potential one night stand/FWB. This is more the angle I was thinking of when I say attraction.
Very good points, thanks for that perspective.
Fuck I'm trans and I agree with you
You don't date trans women because you are a bigot.
I don't date trans women because I have a menstruation fetish. We are not the same.
Disclaimer: this is a joke. I have been in a relationship with a trans woman.
did you two try doing menstruation rp
I have been in a relationship with a trans woman.
Was she hot? Did you have hot sex? Was there video? Answer the third question first.
I’d like to congratulate OP for handling a difficult subject in a way that’s both straightforward and thoughtful!
I agree, but if this is unpopular it really oughtn't be. I've always advertised up front that I'm a trans woman, because not everyone wants to date that and I wouldn't want to be with anyone who doesn't. I don't think it's at all unreasonable, and you're totally right that people shouldn't be shamed for that.
That said, there's ways of turning people down that absolutely deserve to be shamed, and not being interested in someone isn't justification for say, telling a trans woman you aren't interested because you like women.
If you're acting like a reasonable adult and treating people respectfully though, you should be respected in kind. People are entitled to being interested in who they're interested in. If you aren't attracted you aren't attracted.
There's a difference between having a preference/orientation and outright saying "no trans people" on your profile, imo. The former is totally fine and I think the vast majority of people think the same. If you did the latter, I would definitely remove that. It's unnecessary and can make people feel shitty. Just swipe left on people you aren't attracted to, and if you find a dealbreaker while talking to someone, politely disengage.
In general, I find it's best to avoid putting any kind of negative thing in your bio. Both because you run the risk of making people feel bad for no reason, and because psychologically, you want people to associate you with positive things about you, not the things you dislike. Most people have a lot of dealbreakers that are far too numerous and exhausting to enumerate anyway. Just asses for yourself, and if you don't like something about someone, move on.
Doesn't it make people feel bad to talk to a large number of people only to have most of them disengage as soon as they find out you're trans?
Yes, having something like "no trans people" in someone's bio is also hurtful, no doubt. But perhaps hurtful interactions (either from seeing something in a bio or from having many disengagements from others) could be avoided by having it be something that can be put into a user's filter settings?
I agree, and I believe OP does too, but I read their post as "since we live in a world where trans people can't 100% feel safe or want to post the fact that they are trans, and we end up dating and I later find out they are trans and I did not want this in a partner, now we've wasted everyone's time when it could have been addressed from the get-go." I believe OP is trying to discuss what the best way of putting this preference on your profile without straight up saying "no trans people".
I have never run into this, honestly. I would assume if you are looking for a possible sexual relationship, that a person's sexual preference matters. Not to say gender is not important, but sex also is in this instance. If you expect a dick and get a clit, that's going to be a bit of a let-down, no matter how much you are romantically attracted to the person. I think it's mature to have this conversation early in the relationship. More people need to understand that you can discuss this kind of stuff like adults and well, if you're someone looking for a certain type of partner, there should not be shame attached to it.
I don't trust the way this question is framed. Yes people have preferences but why do you have to ask other people how to talk to someone like a human being? We are human. You can just have a conversation with us.
I've had girls attracted to me even when knowing my trans status which other people started screaming about saying I must be a girl (I even have facial hair). So the idea that cis hets can't EVER be attracted to us is a lie.
Basically I don't trust anyone else's opinion on this. We are people. This is not Build-A-Date. Learn to communicate like an adult. Not every trans person has the same set of equipment.
I think what they idea is- and I'm not saying I agree because I'm frankly undecided on this- even if you're attracted to someone, that doesn't mean you want a sexual relationship with them and since dating often leads to a sexual relationship, basic details where sex may be involved should be made clear up front on a dating site.
Again, I'm not saying I agree here. You could easily argue that it's up to the couple to work that out before they get intimate.
You realize there are plenty of cis people that have fulfilling sexual relationships with trans people right? You realize that not every trans person fucks the same right? You realize we're as diverse as everyone else right?
Even if a cis person matches your criteria for a partner, they may not want a sexual relationship with you because you don't fit their criteria. Does that mean you tricked them and wasted their time by getting to know them like a normal person? Or would people only say that about trans people? 🤔
Exactly and like if youre judging people just on their trans-status isnt a very human design, we get horny at random shit all the time so just do/fuck what makes you happy
(and like why should it be the issue of the trans person to bear the label, not the person who actually cares about it)
The one thing that kind of disturbs me about trans relationships when I've called it out, is that trans men and trans women don't feel the need to disclose that they're trans to their partner, as if it's not something important that the other person has a right to know.
Just to be clear, I have nothing against the trans community and I think it's horrible that they're being made into scapegoats and getting attacked by right-wing assholes, but at the same time, people have a right to know some things about their partners. I think trans folks have every right to transition into whatever makes them happy. If people are open for that relationship, more power to them, I am happy for you, BUT that's still a choice that somebody should be allowed to make on their own whether they want to be in that relationship or not with full knowledge of what's going on. To me, it's borderline sexual assault if you've not disclosed that to a partner, since knowing the truth could potentially have changed their actions, though maybe it's more something like "sexual fraud".
The arguments I've gotten against this from some people just don't hold up, things like, "Well you wouldn't disclose every dental procedure you've had to a partner would you?" No, because nobody gives a shit about how many crowns you have when they're trying to have sex with you, that's irrelevant to the situation. Whereas, "this person biologically started as the opposite sex and they've made a transition", is kind of a big deal for some people and could be a deal breaker. Whether you think that judgement is bigoted doesn't matter, that's a boundary that they've set for themselves and should still be respected. Them declining is probably helping you dodge a bullet, since them finding out after the fact is WAAAY more likely to go south pretty quick.
I don't disagree with any of the content of what you said, but I've never met a trans person who defaulted to nondisclosure. And doing that is a very unsafe move for any trans person.
There is the typical "I'm gonna at least see if there's some genuine interest here before I decide if it's worth it to have this conversation," but I've never met anyone who would forgo that up to and after sex. I don't think this is common at all.
What is common is the stupid meme joke of "I went to fuck this chick and when she took off her clothes she had a DICK". It doesn't matter if it actually happens or not, cis people are often obsessed with being scared by the thought and it's just pathetic honestly.
Nevermind that yes, given how close minded most cis people are, doing this would be as you say a very unsafe thing to do (both physically and emotionally) or that it doesn't really make sense to just hope that a random cis person isn't going to react negatively (especially because cis people just can't stop telling and re-telling this kind of insecurity disguised as a joke). Also if you are having sex with someone you know so little about that this comes as a surprise to you... I kind of feel like maybe you shouldn't be complaining about being surprised by details of a partner when you didn't bother to find out anything important about them at all before you decided to have sex with them?? Sure having a penis or not doesn't really define who you are in any meaningful sense (that isn't imposed by society) but if you get to the point that you are going to be intimate with someone I just really am having a hard time fathoming why this wouldn't have already come up?
Ok maybe the trans person really has fallen for you and is in denial about how close minded you are... but even in that case (which feels more like a hypothetical than an actual common scenario) acting like this is some nefarious or mean act is ridiculous. The cis person just has to see a dick for a brief second, it is no different than going to the gym locker room for fucks sake, for the trans person now they have to deal with the emotional intensity of being instantaneously and aggressively rejected by a partner they thought was in to them and unfortunately might physically be in danger from violence now. How does this make any sense at all? It is a waste of breathe to talk about this shit all it does is force the spotlight on feeling bad for how fragile cis men's identities are given their insecurities while ignoring the very real physical and emotional violence enacted upon trans and queer people every single moment upon this earth.
The only other lame insecurity that disguises itself as a joke among cis people that can give this one a run for its money is cis-men's fear of their own butt and what might happen if they realized it felt good to have something up there.
Personally I agree. Personally one of the biggest factors that makes me want to get into a relationship in the first place is more or less to make a kid. Sure adoptions are a thing but like I just don't see myself getting turned on by sex with someone who doesn't have a vagina. The most I can see her doing for me is a hand job. Shallow yea but that's just kinda biology. I can't see anyone making me enjoy a trans woman anymore than you can make a gay dude enjoy a cis woman. And all that's not even mentioning I live in a place where parents still pressure their children to make grandkids.
A transwoman has a vagina post-op. But again this part is irrelevant IMHO. Freedom to choose is sancrosanct. If you date a transwoman it should also be with zero consequence.
You're correct, dating the type of person you actually want to date should come with no consequences or judgement.
Some people might prefer an uncircumcised penis or natural breasts, some people might be indifferent, and some people might prefer breast implants or a circumcised penis. It's no one's business what someone prefers and no one should feel bad for having a preference.
It's kind of a crazy thought that you would judge someone who is turned off by breast implants for not dating a woman with breast implants. I feel the same logic can be (and for the most part is) applied to preferences or indifference for post-op genitals.
There are definitely a vocal minority who would say that having a preference for cis partners is transphobic, but I doubt most people, even most trans people, would consider you bigoted for having that preference.
EDIT: I doubt you're encountering enough trans matches to need to put your preference in your profile.
Forgive me, but I'd say a vagina, or lack thereof, is pretty damned important to most of us.
If a woman started out with a penis? Meh, I might go for that. But I certainly want to engage in "normal" sex, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I'd think you agree.
...I'm pretty sure that no one except extreme I-don't-know-what people are saying you can't have anatomical preferences.
No one is going to say that I'm homophobic because I'm a cisgender heterosexual man that is only interested in dating cisgender heterosexual women. If I was going to be accused of homophobia, it would be for doing things that dehumanize gay people, like denying them basic rights afforded to straight people. (And, for the record, there are a lot of cis-het women that I would never date, even aside from the fact that I'm married.)
On the other hand, what is transphobic is the idea that transwomen are trying to "deceive" you. Maybe you could just, I dunno, try using your words? Talk about shit? Like, I don't date people that are religious, "spiritual", or takes astrology/tarot/etc. seriously; I am not going to have enough respect for someone that believes that nonsense to be in a relationship with them. If someone isn't in-your-face about it, I'm not going to accuse them of trying to deceive and trap me when I find out; I'm just going to leave.
I am the dad of a transgender person and I agree. Sexual and romantic attraction should never be held to the same standard. The heart (and the genitals) wants what it wants
I define a partner and see relationships differently. A partner is not someone you just fuck. I'm not even gay but I'd rather be with a guy who wants me than a soulless selfish golddigger girl who pretends and manipulates me thinking she likes me. I'm too old for this crap. my heart matters a lot more than my balls
If this happens please let me know. I've never heard of a trans person saying they don't tell their partners they're trans.
Some people may not want to choose to disclose on the first date, depending on the other person's personality. If there's nothing there and no second date no harm no foul. If there's a spark and a wish to take things further I've heard (read) many trans people saying they'll wait until after the date to disclose they're trans by text to be able to avoid a violent confrontation.
The climate is extremely hostile for trans people right now and people have to worry about their safety.
While I agree it's certainly fine to have preferences there is also etiquette to consider. Transphobia at it's core is a belief that the very nature of being trans is somehow lesser than or repulsive. Transness is a very wide spectrum that has a bunch of different presentations so simply discarding the entirety of the category is transphobic.
It's more helpful to think of things more in terms the individual things that you are looking for and your deal breakers. Like if your major beef is about physicality there are trans people who retain their physicality and fertility of their birth sex. The feild of trans presentation is really wide. Trans people also generally understand dating as a series of hurdles in finding someone who will give them a chance. Having people just shut down the entirety of the category regardless of any potential reasons they might actually fit what you are looking for contributes to a pervasive fear a lot of trans people have about never finding romantic acceptance. "No trans people!" stands out of a request like a flat out condemnation of anyone who might so much as request a different pronoun rather than just as a personal preference.
An example of something inclusive but still firm on preferences would be something like saying - "I have a female genital preference, want to keep the door open to having children of your own one day and prefer people who present in a very feminine way" ... Because you still haven't discluded all trans people. You've just made it clear that you have a genital and presentation preference and you have a life goal that makes perfect sense. She/they AFAB non-binary partners who are generally femme presenting are rare but still exist and you are communicating your needs in a way that doesn't place a value on how someone internally feels about their gender.
Breaking down the root of transphobia is hard. It demands that we remove a value judgement off of being trans. This at some level means an internal assessment of where you might be open to trans partners and keeping the options open. Like if you are not okay at all with any form of transness because you have a core belief that we are just too much work with our pronouns and our weird way of self conceptualizing ourselves, that's transphobia. ...
Trans is an umbrella term for a group of people so internally diverse that virtually every combination of sexual physicality, gender presentation and gender identity is somewhere represented. Writing off every potential person in the category basically is saying that there are zero concessions you will personally make because even the smallest most unnoticeable presence of trans identity in a person regardless of their physicality or personality is completely repellant to you... Which while it IS a preference is still fairly hostile to trans acceptance.
I am more confused now than before.
I'm not likely to ever date again, so this is simple curiosity, but... I have no interest in playing with anyone's penis but my own. Isn't "CIS-only" shorthand for that? Should it require an essay to dance around the topic? Your example language is clinical and entirely misses the point: it's OK to normalize lesbians being allowed to not want to try dick, but not ok for CIS men to not want to?
I've probably misunderstood your point. I feel as if OP is saying that everyone has a right to have preferences, and nobody should be villified for what they want consenting-adult-wise.
I think you are correct in your idea, however, according to this person, the issue is using Trans as a blanket statement to exclude the entire spectrum in this category. You don't want to play with anyone else's penis, totally your right. What about a transwoman with women genitalia? If that is still not your preference, then truly ask yourself why? If someone is not into black men, they wouldn't say they are not into men.This is a broader topic about our perception of a group of people than just dating preferences.
You are very much misunderstanding my point.
Let me give you an example of what this shorthand is like. Say you are a person who lives for going out mountain climbing and any partner you have is one you want to be able to join you out in that sphere. So you write on your dating profile "NO Disability" or "Only fully abled people" - The field of disability is very wide encompassing both physical and mental disability. Someone who is missing a finger or has autism for instance is still gunna be able to keep up so it is kind of ableist to just assume every disability under the sun isn't going to be able to keep up with you on a mountain but the people who read "no disability" are going to be reminded that there are people out there who are ablist scum and anything short of perfect neurotypicality and physical ability makes you virtually unlovable in their eyes.
Being Trans is equally a wide field. For instance, if your problem is not wanting to interface with dick would you still date a trans man who isn't going to transition? In that instance you have someone who presents and conceptualizes themselves as a man but the body is still female. But maybe your heart of hearts desires someone who does not present as a man which is equally a valid preference.
So then what about a non-binary person? Non binary is under the umbrella term of trans and there is a whole host of different presentations. Like you can have a person who never transitioned and doesn't even present outwardly as any different than a cis person... But they may be agender and feel like gendered expectations are harmful, they may be fluid and their presentation changes from week to week but they still don't have a penis. A lot of non binary trans presentations are fairly outwardly invisible and I know a fair amount of guys with non-penis genital preferences of the "not even a little bi-curious" variety who are dating non binary and trans masculine trans people. There is a fair amount of enbyphobia and erasure out in the world at present. A lot of people tend to be so trans and enbyphobic that they think all of us are basically just something they never want to interact with or even spare a thought for so enbies see a lot of general transphobic rejection.
The concept that "CIS ONLY" is only screening out people with different sex characteristics than what you are looking for is a feature of transphobia via ignorance. It's not coming from a place of cruelty but it's still saying that just identifying as any form of trans is a dealbreaker because any form of acceptance is too much. Because if you can't handle even the thought of a romantic partner asking for you to use a gender neutral pronoun even if they have never so much as touched a horomone or a scalpel yeah, you are kind of adverse to trans people in a more endemic zero tolerance sense in which case calling you transphobic isn't someone being mean, it's describing your aversion in the same way a hydrophobic surface repels water.
Sorry, couldn't make it past "etticate."
Ah, a spelling error was enough to dislodge you. Fuck you very much then.
I dunno, dating apps are part of the internet and therefore shouldn't be taken too seriously. Until you meet up with someone it's all in your imagination anyway.
Just put "want to one day have kids" in your profile, then get over it.
Adoption is a thing...
Speaking as one who did adopt a child, hooboy, that is WAY off. Adoption is wildly expensive. Worse yet, remember the movie Constantine where he visited hell? That scene describes the *bureaucracy *that you have to go through to adopt a child. And that's domestic adoption, let's not talk about a child from overseas.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/10/adopt-baby-cost-process-hard/620258/
"Adoption is a thing" vastly, tragically understates the difficulty involved in adopting a child. If you want kids and are fertile, it's beyond insanely easier to make a baby of your own.
And that's before we get into the ethics (or lack thereof) of shaming someone who wants biological kids of their own.
Just not a thing most normal people want to resort to.
I doubt there will be very many trans people out there that are willing to date somebody without revealing that they are trans. When that eventually comes out it would be a VERY dangerous situation for that person. Anyone that wouldn't care you could tell before the first date. If you can't tell them, it's a BAD idea not to tell them
I'm 43 male. Can't I just say I'm straight looking for a woman who is too.
I'm 43 male. Can't I just say I'm straight looking for a woman who is too.
…a woman who is too 43 male
I have some thoughts.
Are you asking what will get you the best results? I'd be offput by any guy who said "no trans ladies, no black ladies, no fat ladies" even though I'd probably be their target demographic as a fit, thin, white lady. Because I'd assume that guy was a jerk, probably a racist and I don't want to deal with that. So maybe you don't want to be rude about it.
But I don't think it's wrong at all to have orientations and preferences. Almost nobody is absolutely attracted only to personality. You are probably picky beyond just wanting cis people, and it's not a small detail IMO, it's similar to a chronic medical condition because it requires ongoing care, not everyone is prepared for that.
Why do you shout cis every time you say it? I agree that I don't have any interest in dating someone who doesn't want to date me but I'm very confused about the yelling.
That is a holdover from when I thought cis was an acornym. Sorry!
I mean, it stands for the Confederacy of Independent Systems, but I don’t think droids generally have a sexual preference…
What did you think it stood for?
Some folks are merely in the habit of capitalizing acronyms. It isn’t necessarily yelling.
Edit: whoops - I don’t think cis is actually an acronym. Pardon my ignorance!
So I appreciate you approaching the topic with some care here.
I think with this topic people can be fairly reactive on both sides. This to say: There's a genuine desire of far-right actual transphobes to exterminate trans people. And from there, trans people tend to get convinced that transphobes are everywhere and transphobia is in everything. People who are systematically victimized have a tendency to argue with moderates because there's a compulsion to pick the smaller and seemingly more winnable fight... but it tends to have the opposite from the intended reaction. I don't think this speaks to any bigger truth however.
With that said: No, it's not transphobic to want to date cis people. I know plenty of trans people who specifically won't date cis people, so it goes both ways. Curiously, I also know some cis people who only date trans people, and some trans people who only date cis people.
As someone who doesn't care about race gender or what genitals you have or had if i were dating, I agree.
I remeber back when I was using a dating app for the first time. It ask me questions on what I was looking for. One of them was race: I said "I don't know, white?" and clicked a box thinking it was unimportant.
Apperently that labeled me as a racist. A friend pointed it out and said:" No, just click accept all races and then decline all non-whites who try to contact you. That way you don't look racist but still have control over who you want to date."
I feel like that should be the tactic here: if they are upfront with being nonCIS, you just reject them. If they are not upfront with it, then they are lying and should be rejected when dating for lying and not for who they are.
So, the solution is to have nonCIS people never know if someone is lying about actually being OK with them?
You're just changing who is lying.
If they are never going to be in a relationship with a particular person, why should they care what their true option of them is? At that stage in dating apps, it would just mean sending out more initial contact posts - which people reject or ghost for all sorts of reasons. NonCIS people need romantic partners who accept them for who they are.
without being shamed
it's not enough to be able to do things, people should be forced to approve of what I do and tell me what a great guy I am, regardless of what I do
No one actually does this.
Do you think trans woman WANT to date someone who isnt into them? No. Stop being cringe.
You say this but it's been a problem for myself and friends dating. After talking for a while I find out somehow and then they're all like "this isn't how I wanted you to find out!" Uh, how about being honest and upfront and letting me give informed consent?
JustTF is wrong with you? Juat say man looking for woman for exclusive relationship. Chances of a trans person even starting a conversation with you is 1:1000000.
You're worrying about something you shouldn't.
Worry about climate change and cancer instead.
The rest of us are having a civil conversation here, what's got you enraged?
Your first mistake is using dating apps.
See your main problem is that you were dumb enough to try going on a dating app to begin with
It's pretty well established by now that those things are basically useless save for a lucky few
I am one of those bottom 80% men aka "far less-than-Jason Momoa level handsome" dudes who met my wife on Match. Apps aren't inherently bad. I am looking forward at the world my now 12 year old son will inherit when he one day hits the apps, or dates someone in person.
As a black man I don't think it's racist if a woman says she doesn't want to date a black man.
As a bisexual man, I think it's biphobic if a man or a woman say they don't want to date a bisexual man.
And to be true, I wouldn't date biphobic people.
So, yes, it's more convenient for everybody to clearly say what you're looking for and not looking for. But it's still discrimination, especially when it comes from someone in the dominant class (straight, white, able-bodied..)
Uhm, those platforms don't filter by your sexual preference?
Uhm, yes they do. It's one of the preferences you set for your profile.
They do but it's also determined by how one sets their own profile to be categorized in the algorithm. On OkCupid for instance, you're given multiple checkboxes which include "woman" and "trans woman" as separate categories; the site doesn't require you to pick one over the other in any way, and there's a list of at least a dozen to choose from. I don't blame anyone who is trans and doesn't select the option; in a perfect world it really would be irrelevant imo. That said, I ended up picking only "trans woman" for my own category and being up front about it in my profile to weed out people like OP.
Think about your ideal type, for example if you like women who have a certain cup size, a certain hair color, a lovely voice, you prefer a vagina, these are all preferences and that's fine. They are all also achievable by a trans woman or a cis woman. If a woman meets every single one of your standards and preferences to a tee and the only reason you will not date her is because she is trans, that's when it gets transphobic. It's not because you have a genitle preference, it's not because you want a girl who walks, talks, and acts a certain way, it's not because of any of that. It's because if your absolute ideal woman was in front of you, but she had transitioned to get there, it's an immediate no.
Literally no one is actually being victimized by any of this.
Go meet women in real life, dorks. A trans woman online is hardly at risk of dating your weird lonely asses.
Dude, most dating apps place trans people in a entirely third category. Usually it's a third box after male/female and I promise, nobody cares if you leave it unchecked. You're missing out on wonderful, self-realized, adventurous individuals IMHO but nobody is calling you a transphobe simply because you prefer cis women, calm down. You're exaggerating greatly and absolutely parroting anti-trans hysteria here. Shit like this is exactly why a trans person might not come out on the first date
I think this is where the whole cis/trans/male/female roles really start breaking down, cause youre telling me if you met the most 10/10 amazing (man/woman) and realized later on they were trans, all your experiences would immediately be invalidated? And why should the trans people have to bear the burden of this label, when you are the one who cares?
At the end of the day anyone can choose whoever they want to fuck for whatever, but defining it specifically as 'I don't want to date trans people' comes off as ig shallow, cause it describes almost nothing about the person themselves (but hey you can also choose just to be attracted to people born on February 29th if youre really so inclined) - this is why chasers are usually given a similar treatment to those not wanting to date trans people.
I think it becomes most notable with trans people cause they've been so directly repressed in recent years to keep us poor people fighting amongst ourselves, that if someone cares about someones birth-gender, its way more likely due to societal pressure than actually relationship-impactful reasons.
And just to address your 'women not wanting to date a black man as a black man', its great in your perspective its not racist - but like many trans people are realizing their internalized transphobia, being part of a group doesnt make you immune to being phobic of it, nor allow you to speak for the whole group (ie why it feels so ghetto when a politician can't be antisemitic/racist/homophobic cause they have lots of 'x' friends)
If I met an amazing trans person I would still be friends with them and have them in my life. The problem is with bringing romance into it. I want to be with a woman who has a vagina. It's never come up but I don't think I'd be sexually attracted to a woman with a penis or someone who has had reassignment surgery when it came down to it. I'd hate to hit it off with someone and get all the way to the point of trying to get intimate and then hurt them by not being into it. It's best for both of us just to avoid that situation all together.
My perspective on this is from what dealt with as a short man. I have been friends with a lot of women over the years who I got along great with but just were just not attracted to me. Some tried dating me anyway and it just ended up miserable because I wanted intimacy way more than they did. People need to find the right match for themselves and physical attraction can be a huge part of thst. Not being attracted to someone doesn't make you a bad person, it's just biology and there's not a lot you can do about it.
Somehow, nobody here is talking about that "cis mate" is accidentally too restrictive, if it's about genital preference. Saying "I want a cis mate" is going to exclude non-binary people that would actually be perfectly compatible with your genital preference and present close enough to the gender you're attracted to. Let's be appropriately specific when talking about this stuff, people
Wow, first of all, no one cares if you put cis in your "looking for". God it must be so hard for straight people to exist/ sarcasm.
Doubt you’ve even ever met a trans woman. We don’t want to sleep with you either.
I’m a trans lesbian and it sounds like you spend more time thinking about fucking trans women than I do
Idk, retusing to date someone based on their race does seem pretty racist to me. I know it's not the point of the post but like... It's murky moral territory.
You can't help who/what your attracted to, true. Even if it might be defined by subconscious prejudice, that might not necessarily be something you can change, totally. But having that conversation... It's gonna be hurtful, yeah? I think if you have that kinda preference the only easy way to accommodate it is by you advertising it in a general way.
Which only really works for dating apps, the absolute worst way to meet people.
Also, not a big deal, but it's best to put a space between 'trans' and 'men/'women'. It's an adjective. They are trans, they are men/women. 'Transmen' and 'transwomen' makes it seem like you're designating them seperately.
Wtf is a cis?
Shorthand for cisgender. It's an ancient word that's come back into common use in the last decade.
Trans is a Latin root for "on the opposite side of", so transgender means "opposite of [birth] gender".
Cis is the antonym root that means "on the same side as", so cisgender means "the same as [birth] gender".
Shorthand for cisgender. It's an ancient word that's come back into common use in the last decade.
Trans is a Latin root for "on the opposite side of", so transgender means "opposite of [birth] gender".
Cis is the antonym root that means "on the same side as", so cisgender means "the same as [birth] gender".
Then I'm gay
Do you live under a rock?
Do you live in a world lacking empathy? I suppose you were born knowing all words and never learned any. If this person is young or has English as a second language they might not have heard it. Hell if they are old they also might not have heard of it.
They're one of today's lucky ten thousand !
It's hard to believe that this narrative you claim exists actually does.
I believe it does, though not to a really significant degree. I've had similar arguments with people over expressing the same opinion. And you can see some of those arguments even being made in this thread.
I was on dating apps a lot a couple of years ago. I don't think it ever came up, but if it did it would've been one weirdo that I would've promptly blocked and forgotten about.
First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women.
Sweet, then you have no problem and are open to dating anyone in your preferred gender.
No, I am not open to date the vast majority of folks in my preferred gender. Age, language, whether they're a good person, shared hobbies, shared culture are all factors. Why isn't cisness a legitimate factor?
It is. You just can't virtue signal about how everyone is equal while expressing such a preference.
You need to go outside and touch grass, holy cow you're online too much.
As always lemmy's gotta dogpile. You're basically right though. Most people on lemmy don't seem to interact with normal people on a day to day basis. Nobody in the real world talks or gives 2 cents about this shit. (that's a figurative nobody, not a literal nobody)
If you're running into people shaming you about "CIS" this or that...you're lookin' in the wrong places. Most normal people are male or female, and want the opposite sex partner.
This is the reality of life. The chronically online don't understand that.
The problem with this rant is that it is inherently transphobic. I am in agreement that all preferences should be available though. If you only like blind midget pirates that should be a fucking option goddaamnit.
"I want to announce that I have no intention of allowing myself to get to know a certain type of person"
"Why are people treating me like I'm a certain type of person, who people wouldn't like to get to know?"
Getting to know someone and dating them are two very different things.
I know lots of people that I have absolutely no desire to date. That doesn’t mean I’m bigoted against them.
Freedom goes both ways.
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I respect other people's expressions of individuality, romantic preferences and unique sexuality.
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I apply broad negative labels on people who don't want all the same things that I want from a partner.
Pick one.
It's possible to support people without being romantically, physically and/or sexually attracted to them. For example, a straight man might not want a lesbian woman for a partner (and, you know, she probably doesn't want him either), but they can still support each other, believe in solidarity, be friends and allies to each other and acknowledge each other's fundamental human rights.
I genuinely don't know if I would be attracted to a trans woman (I'm happy to keep an open mind but I haven't been in a situation where it's come up in my life), but I do believe in trans rights, I love my trans friends, and I want them (and everyone else) to find happiness in their own skin and be able to live as the person they want to be without some asshole politicians in red ties telling them they cannot. I don't think it's hard.
In my opinion that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.
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Are you purposefully distorting their words? Since when getting to know is the same as possibly having sex, having a baby and get married?
You have to date someone to get to know them? That's kind of sad.
Not me. I'll happily get to know and befriend LGBTQ. And go vigilante if I see them being threatened. I have a 12 year old son and if he wants to date a transgirl she's welcome in my house as his girlfriend.