Goodbye Youtube and thanks for all the fish
Goodbye Youtube and thanks for all the fish
Youtube let the other shoe drop in their end-stage enshittification this week. Last month, they required you to turn on Youtube History to view the feed of youtube videos recommendations. That seems reasonable, so I did it. But I delete my history every 1 week instead of every 3 months. So they don't get much from my choices. It still did a pretty good job of showing me stuff I was interested in watching.
Then on Oct 1, they threw up a "You're using an Ad Blocker" overlay on videos. I'd use my trusty Overlay Remover plugin to remove the annoying javascript graphic and watch what I wanted. I didn't have to click the X to dismiss the obnoxious page.
Last week, they started placing a timer with the X so you had to wait 5 seconds for the X to appear so you could dismiss blocking graphic.
Today, there was a new graphic. It allowed you to view three videos before you had to turn off your Ad Blocker. I viewed a video 3 times just to see what happens.
Now all I see is this.
Google has out and out made it a violation of their ToS to have an ad blocker to view Youtube. Or you can pay them $$$.
I ban such sites from my systems by replacing their DNS name in my hosts file routed to 127.0.0.1 which means I can't view the site. I have quite a few banned sites now.
But I delete my history every 1 week instead of every 3 months. So they don't get much from my choices.
Implying that deleting them from your view actually deleted them.
doesn't even matter. what matters is the meta data. if the data from the list say you like science videos with emphasis on electrical engineering, star wars podcasts and mmorpg let's plays - does that data go away apon history deletion. what about meta-meta data. if the meta data puts you on group X that receive content Y, does that go away apon history deletion. and what kind of integration does that get with the rest of the google knowledge about you...
I doubt turning off history truly does what it says either though. I think it was more about avoiding the shitty algo recc's that try to turn everyone's dad and uncle into a far right extremist.
All the morons defending a mindless corporation in this thread forgot that Google has far overstepped it's boundaries in general. It got to where it is from harvesting free data from users. And now is initiating a web DRM that will far overstep any boundary seen. If a website decides to adopt it, everyone is screwed.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/googles-web-integrity-api-sounds-like-drm-for-the-web/
“You can go ad free with YouTube premium!”
Buys premium
youtube shows ad for paramount plus under my video
Cancels YouTube premium.
So anywho there’s a thing called freetube. Just saying. Idk that it’s a perfect alternative, but it’s at least one step further from googles prying eyes and grubby hands.
Tbh, I block ads when I can but have a hard time getting angry about this. YouTube is both incredibly useful and incredibly expensive to operate -- seriously, what other service lets you upload hours of HD video which anyone in the world can access instantly, indefinitely, for free, and at the same scale YT does? It's a peerless engineering marvel and it would be a tragedy if it were to shut down. If seeing some short skippable ads is what it takes to keep that resource viable, that's honestly pretty fair.
I just pay for YouTube Premium. It gets me YouTube Music, so for slightly more than the cost of Spotify I get music streaming and ad-free YouTube, and the channels I watch on YouTube get more value out of my streaming than if I watched with ads. And far more than if I watched with an adblocker.
Google Play Music was so much better than YouTube Music, unfortunately, but YouTube Music is still usable.
I understand that everyone hates ads. I hate ads, too. But video streaming and content creation aren’t free. I want to support the platform and support the creators whose content I enjoy, and I don’t want ads. So YouTube Premium seems like the easy option.
The tragedy is that the centralized, profit-driven, socially-damaging platform keeps so much value under ransom because the parent company can operate it for so long at a loss.
I get that the platform is a marvel, it's just disappointing that its purpose is tailored to keep eyes watching more ads rather than contribute to society as a whole.
I would have more sympathy for Youtube if 1. it wasn't the de-facto standard where essentially all video media gets uploaded to (which Youtube itself has done everything in its power to make happen) and 2. the company that owned it didn't also own the most popular phone OS, most popular search engine, most popular email provider, most popular ad network, most popular maps, most popular online office suite, most popular airline booking, 2nd most popular cloud hosting... The list goes on
Until a federated solution like peertube gains more traction I have no problem paying content creators directly via patreon, and do everything in my power to not pay Google a dime. Trust me, they can afford it just fine.
I only looked into blocking ads sometime around like 2014-2016? I was perfectly fine with them for a very long time, they got more and more invasive and poor quality to the point I looked into blocking them. Haven't gone without an ad blocker ever since. No way in hell am I dealing with the current state of YouTube ads which are drastically worse than what pushed me to start blocking them to begin with.
What angers me is the capital deciding to control everything. Enshittifying ads, pushing narratives, censoring valuable content. If it were a worse service but with better owners, I'd pay more.
Norway, Sweden, Austria, Hungary, Luxembourg, and others have it as part of law that Works Councils get 33% of the seats on the board of directors, and employees are elected to take up those roles. In Slovenia, Germany, and Slovakia, it is as high as 50%. That's the kind of ownership we should demand and then some, where average people get to have a say in what's going on at YouTube. Then maybe we'd get more ethical business decisions and choices we'd be more on board with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_representation_on_corporate_boards_of_directors
The issue is that ads on YouTube used to be fairly innocuous. Now I get batshit conspiracies pushed, non-stop Aussie gambling ads and so on.
Where I was once happy to sit through some food ads, or some tourism ads to support the platform. I'm not happy being blasted with non-stop, low-quality propoganda.
Granted the $22 family plan for me and my wife has worked well. We both use youtube music extensively as well. It's the only streaming service I pay for, the only other subscription I have is for a VPN.
If google cant afford youtube, they could sell it. But they easily can, so Im not losing sleep over the $2 a week they lose from me.
Or, alternatively, if the ads were reasonable, next to no one would feel any real obligation to block them. But they arent, so why should I be concerned about the sites funding?
Like, google isnt some poor struggling indie dev who cant make ends meet. Im not exactly overflowing with sympathy for their business decisions. Theyre the reason adblock is required for modern internet use.
YouTube is greedy. They make plenty of money without stuffing in more ads and pulling crap like this. I don’t use an ad blocker, but I’ve considered it (or just dumping YouTube completely) because they have really ramped up the ad interruptions. I’d subscribe if they had a cheap YouTube-only plan. But they don’t. You either have to pay for bundled music or TV and I don’t want or need either.
Yes, there are business costs, but they don’t produce the content they air, and their payout to those who do produce the content is a relative pittance. Their infrastructure is shared among other Google products, so it’s not like they’re having to pay for all their server racks out of a single budget. And I’m sure Google is trying to figure out how to train AI on all the content that’s posted there. Not to mention all the pirated content posted to YouTube that Google is making money from, without compensating the creators or copyright holders.
If was running a competing business like Facebook, or Amazon, I would seriously consider ramping up a competing product.
The problem is that YouTube went from "short skippable ads" to almost all ads. It also is a major invader of privacy.
Reminder that YouTubers control how many ads are on a video and until last year or so you could even host video and have it served to millions with zero ads. Now the minimum is one skippable pre roll but like shit costs money to serve 20 million people an hour log 4k video.
I share the same sentiment but I can see why someone might want to not support Youtube in any way because they don't want to support Google's stranglehold on the internet. Unfortunately the correct way to address that problem is sensible regulation. Call me skeptical, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
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The amount of ads on YouTube only seems to get more and more invasive over time. And I'd have less of a problem with them if they didn't keep showing me the same ads over and over and over again.
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Even with all that, I would pay (subscription wise, not like I haven't rented/bought movies from them) if I actually knew where the money was going. YouTube is surely expensive to operate, but we don't know how much money it costs to actually run it vs how much money is extracted via executives and shareholders.
If you read around you'll find (perhaps surprisingly to you) that YouTube operates at a loss. So in response to your points:
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You can pay to get the ads removed. They make less money off of you when they can't serve you ads, and I'm sure they're trying to operate at less of a loss.
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Alphabet is a public company, and it must release certain information about YouTube. Anyways, I'm pretty sure they aren't using the money to directly line the shareholder profits. The reality of it is that it's probably just another arm that Alphabet uses as part of its monopolistic tech deathgrip, so it's not gonna be a straightforward computation. Maybe Disney could be used as a metaphor here?
If you don't wanna pay to support that, I don't exactly blame you. But practically, I don't really agree/expect that YouTube should serve you content (or even more so, people with aggressive adblockers) without you giving something in return. Either you eat ads, you pay for a subscription, or you become the product (unfortunately this last point might be true irregardless).
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Just like a few of the other posts, I honestly don't get it. If they can't sell your data and can't serve you ads, then why would they want to spend money serving you for free? There's so many people complaining how YouTube has a monopoly and how it's not even that hard to run, but I seriously doubt these people. Transcoding video and distributing it worldwide while having automated moderation is not easy or cheap. If there were serious contenders in the space people would have moved on, and I don't think it's just the network effect that keeps YouTube as a dominant player here.
People despise ads, but then they want content for free. They use adblockers to bypass a primary revenue source for a website, then go all surprised Pikachu face when that website doesn't welcome them. And then they get upset that they don't want to be the product despite not willing to be a source of ad revenue. I'm willing to pay for YouTube premium (and other subscription models to get rid of ads), but a lot of people aren't. And honestly, I really would rather those people simply leave the site. It would lower operating costs for YouTube (I don't expect my subscription fees to go down but maybe their engineers will have more free time to work on features besides adblocker-blocking), and more people on different sites would lead to more competition.
If you aren't willing to eat ads, and you aren't willing to be the product, and you aren't willing to pay a subscription, then why do you think you're entitled to content?
People despise ads, but then they want content for free.
You have it perfectly backwards: YouTube wants content for free, and to not have to share any but the most pitiful fractions of ad income with the ACTUAL content creators.
YouTube does not produce content, others do. YouTube has gone out of its way to dick the vast majority of them, especially the smaller ones, to the point that as such, unless you have a Patreon, a website or store of your own, corporate sponsors, merch, or some other side hustle in addition to making YouTube content, you're literally making content for a fraction of a penny per view, and entirely at your own cost.
And even then, you're subject to an algorithm over which you have no control and which can just as fickly ban your content to oblivion as it can raise your content to the multi-million views club. By skipping YouTube ads and finding other ways to support the content creators I enjoy, I help give my creators a financial buffer from the unpredictable vagaries of the algorithm and also withhold reward from YouTube as well.
When YouTube shared ad revenue with content creators in a much more equal fashion, I did not have a problem with their ads. But several years ago -- I want to say six or seven, but it's been going on for at least ten -- YouTube got greedy with the ads AND with becoming incredibly unstable and unreliable for creators in all manner of ways AND decreasing payouts to creators all along the way, at which point it became clear that me watching an ad or not no longer affects the content creators I enjoy at all. And they are the only reason I am on YouTube to begin with.
(And don't get me started on all the copyright/demonetization scams there are on YouTube now: I have a friend who got a copyright strike for playing a C scale on a piano because some asshole claimed it and YouTube lets them do it: even when a creator gets views, they can get demonetized at a drop of a hat even for obviously ridiculous claims, and then that revenue goes to the person making the copyright claim. Win/win for everyone except the person who actually made the content.)
Over the years, YouTube has never failed to excel at two things: server space, and fucking its golden geese, the creators of the actual content, without which no one would be making any money there at all. So get back to us when YouTube recognizes the creators of the gold mine they have in the content hosted there, and once again finds a way to respect for the amount of time and effort and cost that goes into creating that content by sharing revenue with content creators in a more equitable manner.
TL;DR: Why should I watch ANY YouTube ads at all when I can support content creators via Patreon or a creator's website and know that a much more equitable amount of that revenue will go straight to the creator of that content, where it belongs?
I honestly don't get it. If they can't sell your data and can't serve you ads, then why would they want to spend money serving you for free?
They shouldn't. If they can't figure out how to make money with it they should close it down. If they insist on thinking about it as a product and it doesn't make money, it's a product that doesn't make sense and should not exist. If the only way you can make people use your product is by giving it away, what does that tell you about it?
They could lock down the platform behind paywall but they don't want to do that. They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want all the free videos being uploaded but they don't like all the free viewers. Unfortunately they go hand in hand.
[...] you aren't willing to pay a subscription, then why do you think you're entitled to content?
You CANNOT pay for your content there, even if you want to.
Has it never occurred to you that YouTube gets all their content FOR FREE?
You can only pay to make Google even richer. That's all your money can do there. Nothing else.
If you aren't willing to eat ads, and you aren't willing to be the product, and you aren't willing to pay a subscription, then why do you think you're entitled to content?
You’re overthinking things. I click one button once and I never see ads, for years at a time without needing to tweak it at all. This is also completely free to set up and completely legal.
The fact of the matter is that this technology exists, and they can do nothing to stop it. Despite this, they continue to rely on the ad supported model. Curious, no?
then why would they want to spend money serving you for free?
Because if I post a link to a video and as a result someone sees an ad —or better, signs up for premium—then boom, they just made a profit. There is of course a critical threshold of adblockers where this no longer works but we’re not near it yet so they won’t change their revenue model.
Note: I am not taking a moral high ground here, just pointing out how it works. Yes, you are subsidizing me, thanks for that.
I totally agree. I am a Youtube Premium user for this exact reason. No ads means less financial incentive to track me (I remember a statistic where one user was worth 4cents per year, could be wrong about the exact number though). In a perfect world we would habe monetization networks instead of ad networks, on a pay per view or subscription model instead of ads. This would not only make the companies more money, but also reduce the incentive for them to track you (I would even claim that unnecessary tracking would hurt their business).
We can either have a free (as in no costs) or a free (as in liberty) internet, not both
No ofence but if thats your pov on the situation (a very valid one btw) you would be better of subscribing to youtube premium. You suport them directly, and dont really get the short end of the stick on mobile like evryone else that isnt paying or isnt a power user. They still colect your data incluiding browsing and watching habits, but you wont get bombarded with terrible ads and get some nice perks as a plus.
Agreed. I'll fuck around with the workarounds for as long as they work but once YouTube truly manages to make adblocking a complete headache I'll just switch to a Indian ip-address and buy a cheap premium. I've been watching tens of thousands of hours of ad-free content on that site for as long as it has existed. I can't, with a straight face, complain about the fact that they would like to make some money from it too.
I think we attribute different meanings to the word "tragedy". Stuff such as tutorials and documentaries (and, you know, books...) have existed well before YouTube was even conceived and will exist after it disappears, not taking into account that 90% of YouTube is just clickbaity videos with the stupid "surprised face" thumbnail anyway. YouTube is given too much credit for what it is and it is frankly overrated as a source of reliable information.
The real tragedy is the unhealthy addiction to YouTube of such a huge amount of people seem to have developed.
My problem is that I paid for YouTube premium, for “an ad free experience” in their words. Then I immediately had an ad for paramount plus embedded under my video.
So I canceled and they can go fk themselves. I was willing to support them directly, but they straight up lied about what I was buying from them.
Look at all the free image / video services that either never took off or went bust. Especially streaming is quite expensive and isolating only this single aspect of Youtube - cost to operate: what do people expect? Everybody wants few to no ads at all and no subscription either.
As I said, I don't want to even touch any other topic here like Youtube's (perceived) quality or their (spicy) business decisions. If you don't like the product, don't use it. There is no right to free consumption of entertainment videos. Imagine paying for a taxi like you (don't) pay for Youtube.
And if you know better, start your own platform.
LBRY does.
If you're on PC use Firefox with uBlock Origin.
For Android, Im personally using Libretube but using mobile Firefox with uBlock Origin also works.
PSA:Firefox + ublock origin combo works on android as well. If you don't want to install revanced.
Kiwi + ublock 👍
NewPipe is another good option for android
Another option on Android is NewPipe. Doesn't look as nice as Libretube imo, but it goes to Youtube directly for content which is useful since public piped instances can be a bit unreliable or slow from time to time. (Also on Libretube you have to sign up and re-import your subscriptions whenever you switch instances which can be tedious)
NewPipe is really good once you get the hang of it.
You have to keep in mind that its development has temporarily slowed down a bit, so you won't have many new features, such as being able to view Shorts and Livestreams tabs in a profile (can be overcome by browsing the profile via Invidious and sharing the page to NewPipe) but bugfixes are usually quick. AFAIK the slowdown is due to a rewrite/refactoring which will make NewPipe easier to develop and maintain and improve its UI.
You can disable libretube proxy in settings
Also FreeTube for PC
Yeah I just clicked X on their popup and went back to watching videos lol
That is just the beginning of your warnings. Later there will be a countdown before the x appears, and eventually there will be no x to click. You need to use ublock origin (and non-Chromium browsers). Remember to purge cache and updage ublock origin.
Revanced still pretty much works for me
I just tried libretube but it crashes every time I click on a video :(
It's such a shame because I used to use newpipe all the time and I absolutely loved that, until it also stopped working
I think you need to update NewPipe.
If you just installed the app from an apk file, try installing it from the F-Droid app instead, to keep on receiving new updates.
Alternatively, you could add it to the Obtainium app (use the search bar when adding), since it supports GitHub, F-Droid and many more repositories.
That'll keep you updated!
For iOS users, I highly recommend using Vinegar. 👌
I use Firefox with uBO on Windows and it doesn't help. I tried installing filters I found online but they don't do shit.
I'll just install FreeTube.
It's likely because you have some other addons/tracking protection/etc that blocks stuff or otherwise modifies how YouTube behaves. I had a YouTube enhancement addon installed, once I uninstalled that, everything got blocked properly again.
That's odd. Were you using other YouTube add-ons?
NewPipe still works for me. But i see only crap, so i close it again.
Find channels and subscribe. It pulls them in from the feed.
clipious exists
Never heard of it.
PC: Install Firefox. Then install these extensions: Sponsorblock for YouTube, Enhancer for YouTube, uBlock Origins with all the filters turned on except the language filters (you can use them if you wish) and Return YouTube Dislike. Keep uBlock Filters updated by checking for filter updates once a day.
Android: There's Revanced. I use pre-built apks along with Vanced MicroG from RVX Lite in Telegram.
Android TV: Install SmartTubeNext.
Enjoy.
Another tip: For security reasons, always install the absolute minimum number of browser extensions you can get by with. And only from devs you trust.
Invidious has still been working for me too, though I'll be clear I'm also using firefox
Just to let you know, if you use uBlock you can expect it to adapt to this new shenanigan pretty quickly. Also I think €120/year are ridiciously overpriced. Ask me about €30/year and I might consider it for a second.
To be honest, I wouldn't mind ads on Youtube if they were less per hour and less obnoxious. But no, every 12 second video now has an ad leading to it.
Not to mention, if I would pay for every single Video service the usual 8-15€ I would pay like €1000 per year and THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Give me "pretty much everything" for €100 per year and we can talk. My offer stands.
When they take out uBlock Origin, they take me out as well.
If only peertube had the same culture as Lemmy and Mastodon.
But it feels like, imo, Peertube has fallen to the same pitfalls as other YouTube alternatives. 99% of vids I see on Peertube instances are far-right conspiracy theory videos among other obviously abhorrent content that would otherwise be banned on youtube.
Lmfao, no one is dropping YouTube. You'll be back one way or another.
Use Piped and Invidious. Newpipe with SponsorBlock on my android. LibreTube is also good.
You're right, I haven't dropped Youtube - but I've added Nebula. It's not gonna be long now before either my last youtube-only creator moves to Nebula or I find some way to get an ad-free provider to play on my TV. Then I can finally unsubscribe from YT.
I've quit watching videos on Youtube hundreds of times!
The actual stuff I want to watch is also on Nebula. I had subscribed to premium because I was watching mostly on my console but instead of renewing I'd rather switch there and actually pay the content creators.
He should go to piped.
Firefox + ublock origin is the way forward.
However, as a teacher, my school IT system default browser is chrome, and adverts on YT videos when you're trying to teach a lesson can really suck all the momentum and attention from the class.
Chrome allows you to save javascript as a bookmark URL called bookmarklets. I'm not so clued up on java, but I found this code that zips through the adverts super quickly. Someone can probably improve on this;
javascript: var v = document.querySelector('video'); var t = 16; v.playbackRate = parseFloat(t)
ublock, revanced, newpipe and more
I enjoy watching YouTube with no ads so I bought premium. I actually bought the family one and share it with 4 others. Personally, I find it to be a great deal.
I also pay for extra storage (even tho I have a nas) because it’s convenient to have.
I’m a pirate at heart, have a 3k movie library on Plex and use nefarious to queue download, and I’m a long time crypto nut so I understand privacy and sticking it to the man.
But I also find great quality of life improvements by simply paying fair prices for good content 🤷♂️
It’s a fun hobby to try and dodge ads and steal and stick it to these companies. But really can be time consuming and gets old (it did at least for me when I got old).
I hate ads as much as anyone and have been blocking them for almost as long as ad blockers have existed. I still acknowledge the fact that ads are the primary revenue source for a lot of things on the Internet, and I selectively enable them for content I want to pay for.
How do you think Youtube is supposed to survive without ads or subscriptions? When they puts ads on their site, the unsaid agreement is that you exchange your ad views for their service.
Route to 0.0.0.0 instead, localhost gives a delay while zero just fails.
If you're on a browser, use invidious - https://api.invidious.io/
If you're on android, use NewPipe - https://f-droid.org/packages/org.schabi.newpipe/
Fuck google with the entire alphabet and their graveyard of ideas
uBlock Origin is quite apt in not showing any of that. I am thankful for the creator's attentiveness.
Script blocking > Ad Blocking. Block all of the tracking scripts, all of the ad-aware stuff, disable redirects and scripts embedded in the ad frames, bypass script-based paywalls, etc. It is a pain in the ass to go to a new site and have to figure out who the 20 domains are that are trying to load scripts, but finding those tracking fuckers and hitting "distrust" is so satisfying. I swear that any ads I do see are so all over the map because nobody knows who the hell I am and I like it that way.
I'll play devil's advocate here... Ads pay revenue. Revenue pays for the service. The service pays content creators. I'm not saying Youtube is perfect, but adblocking, or using alternate front ends, hurts the content creators first. Youtube Premium gets rid of the ads, pays the content creators more, and gets you a spotify-type music streaming service as well. I'm not trying to shill, but the deal is pretty fair, it's only $3 more than spotify, and you get 0 ads on youtube as a bonus. If you really don't want to see and you don't want to pay for it, then please, don't use the service. Youtube still gets data from you, even if you block ads. You want to hurt them, then do it the right way. Blocking ads hurts the creators more than anyone else.
Edit: Every day I am reminded of how many people believe they are owed everything for free.
I'll start giving a shit about youtubes bottom line when youtube starts caring about the creators bottom lines. Youtube fucks creators so god damn hard.
Just look at this for example' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-QtwGfILTo
hurts the content creators first
Ehhhh I’m not so sure. Adblockers don’t stop on-air reads, for starters. I’m not saying you’re entirely wrong but I’m also not sure it’s impacting the creators as much as it impacts YouTube’s vacuuming our telemetry data.
Adblockers don’t stop on-air reads, for starters.
And you know what? I watch on-air reads, when they're good. Simon Whistler does a great job, so does Aging Wheels, and Jay Foreman, and a bunch of others. You want me to watch an ad, all you have to do is make it entertaining. That's clearly possible, because some people do it.
That's where everyone gets ad data wrong. Youtube doesn't really care if you watch an ad or not. The ad buyers do, and so Youtube keeps them happy by doing things like disallowing adblockers, but Youtube doesn't give a shit about BolexForSoup. Your age, your sex, your location, and the last time you upgraded the Macbook you are logging onto their site with, that's what they want to know. They want to sell your data, not you. They will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to the pile and sell the whole pile. No one will care who you are. You are the product, and Youtube just needs to make sure your ingredient label is correct.
I liked youtube more back when it was random personally created videos, not 'creators' making commercial content pretending to be run out of someone's basement.
Yeah, my favorite YouTube content has been the type that are just random uploads from people who don't even post frequently or ever again, and just sharing something because they thought it was cool along the vein of reddit and lemmy. So doesn't have that whole artificial production vibe and intentionally lengthened videos with begs for likes and so on, since there was no monetization motive to begin with.
Crappy thing is that those type of videos are suppressed and hidden by the algorithm that pushes the big channels to the top in searches. YouTube really pushes the personality/influencer driven content for obvious reasons, but it's why I haven't really fallen into the YouTube hole of endlessly watching it.
I would say that ads like YT's are the kind that pushed adblockers into being popular. Well, that and redundant/audio/popups ads that are annoying. Sometimes I turn off the adblocker and generally it's an immediate mistake.
I know it wouldn't be a large portion of content (though having control over the final look could widen the appeal), but I think Google could've gotten vector content supported in HTML5 spec (in collaboration with software, and maybe some kind of automated conversion to hybrid video) and thus supported on YT. It can be significantly less data for high-fidelity visuals, and unlike rendered video it's the same data for 720p as it'd be for someone with a 16K monitor or whatever in 20+ years from now.
Actually reducing costs in this manner would probably be too generous to competitors, just as Flash being killed off was good for YT. AV1 does help, but is still likely a big resource cost to store/serve at 4K+ (or just in general) not to mention re-encoding hardware and knowledge needed.
Kinda just like how WEBGL tech didn't actually include a container format (the reason why so much Flash content was easily archived by normal people) as it does not benefit content hosts to allow downloads (even if it'd lower cost of repeat viewings particularly by users who don't actually provide the host with revenue).
This is why you don’t use YouTube at all and use Piped or similar services.
Fuck YT and fuck their strong-arming ad bullshit.
Youtube gets free content that it has full rights to use however it likes. Google takes that free content and uses it everywhere on the internet, to make fistfuls of cash. The ads are just bonus garnish.
I really dont care about youtubes bonus garnish, no matter how hard you "totally arent shilling, guys!"
Every day I am reminded of how many people believe they are owed everything for free.
Not really. Youtube is already profitable. They're trying to test if people's standards are low enough for them to make even more profit.
The fact you think this equates to 'owed everything for free' just shows me what a proud rube you are.
Its not free. They harvest your data and sell that. Ad revenue is secondary. And all of this is ran by the most powerful company in history. Adblock doesnt even put a dent in Google's profits. And content creators? Ad revenue is basically dead now that YT is pushing for child friendly content. And they make millions in corporate deals and have patreons and direct donations in addition to being able to work a stable job in addition to making videos.
This isnt being "owed" anything. Im already paying with my privacy.
And even if I wasnt already paying, fuck Google. Evil company that more than deserves loosing the $0.02 my ad viewership would have earned.
You're expresing the most common opinion in the thread. Your not a devils advocate especially when you start to whine openly about replies that have differing opinion than your own.
No one is whining. Second, I said I was playing devil's advocate because no one else had responded yet, and I was responding directly to OP.
Hear me out: Google makes money by selling ads. People who buy from those ads don't have an adblocker installed. People who are intelligent enough to block ads wouldn't buy from them anyway. If Google allows it to be too easy to block ads then their model collapses. I'm ok with jumping through a couple hoops to continue to block and Google doesn't lose anything while I get to still watch the content I like without wasting anyone's time. It's to Google's benefit to serve videos to only people who will actually buy that crap anyway. If Google or anyone wants to sell to me, they simply have to make a great product. If they do, I'll see it in use for it's intended purpose and buy it. For example, I didn't have to watch any ads to buy a Nintendo Switch years ago...
I got this notification today for the first time. I cleared the catche on my filter lists and it seems to have solved the issue - for now.
I see a lot of people saying X and Y are safe. Eventually nothing will be safe. All they have to do is require login to view content. Make login require CC or SMS then enforce a ratio of content played over time.
Price wise, they're just insane. It's all B-Rate content for more then the price of any other streaming service.
I use YouTube for tutorials, education, and entertainment all the time. And YouTube music is how I listen to all my music.
I've been paying for the YouTube premium version for my family since day one.
Recently they took away my grandfathered-in pricing. It really costs me a ton of money.
But I remember that I'm keeping ads off my screens, my parents' screens, and my kids screens... And we all use YouTube music all the time.... So...
Yeah, a lot of money, but honestly, probably the best subscription I have.
I could never go back to ads.
I considered switching from the Spotify family plan to YouTube premium's, but it's like $10 more and that's above my budget.
YT Premium is pretty much a scam imo, what it does can be achieved with free tools.
When you put it like that... That's like saying stores are a scam because you could just take the products for free.
Yeah except y'know YouTube servers cost money and watching through Invidious doesn't actually pay either YouTube or the creators. Like I don't want to shill for a corp but on the other hand mass hosting video for free and letting anyone watch is a business model that can only work at YouTubers scale and nothing can replace YouTube because any service that tries will run out of money in a week. Seriously video hosting is literally the most expensive thing to do on the internet.
So is paying for car repair or a builder when a lot of times you can do it yourself and save money. But it's not that simple. Time and effort are resources too.
In this case, when the whole familiy is involved and also taking into account that YT Premium also accounts for my work laptop and my phone I can easily understand why OP chooses to pay for YT Premium instead of more reasons to be the family helpdesk..
I either pay to use the app or I get ads that pay for the platform to continue being used but I don't want to see the ads so my ad blocker blocks the ads.
A company is going to continue making revenue. I don't know why anyone is shocked by a company that makes ads changing a site to ask you to view more ads. Genuinely baffled that users waste their time complaining about something a big trillion dollar company owns and actively runs changing their platform to continue making them trillions of dollars then getting on here and going, "take that Google I am fed up."
Meanwhile, I have just been paying for YouTube premium with no ads supporting the content creators I love and moving on with my life.
EDIT: These comments are why Lemmy isn't growing.
It should be "So long YouTube and thanks for all the fish." Goddammit!
If you're going to borrow from Douglas Adams, at least get it right.
This calls for DEFCON enshittification talk
The enshitification of youtube is complete. Nothing stopping them from just upping the rate and duration of ads to the stratosphere.
I use SmartTubeNext on a Fire TV and it works fine.
It even skips over in-video ads.
Copy URL, alt+F2, mpv 'paste URL'.
I use FreeTube on my desktop and Newpipe on my GrapheneOS Pixel 7, I don't see any ads or graphic overlays. The family uses AppleTV and the YouTube app is a horrible experience with the amount of ads, even for a 3 minute video. Future project is to look into Pihole or something to block ads at the router level.
I will let you know but I haven't have issues with ad blocker on PC yet
Hasn't happened to me yet, but I know it will.
Sucks; but to be honest most of the YouTube things I watch have been moving off YouTube for awhile anyway.
First Reddit, now YouTube. This year is a year of change for my Internet habits.
The bullshit Reddit & Spez pulled is a lot worse than forcing ads on YT imo
I’ll only use YouTube so long as freetube is still operational.
Funny you mention it but some of the highlight videos I've been following for years have moved off YouTube this year. I've been using the site less because of that. From what the creators of the videos say, they're getting hit constantly with bogus copyright claims and YouTube does nothing to protect their content.
Use Invidious while it still exists as a project I'm a fan of the yewtu.be instance. Pretty reliable. The Piped project is good as well. Don't even use the YouTube domain at all, hate giving them analytics and site usage info nevermind ads
Here is my take on this.
First, I am with OP on this, but with mild counter points:
- I block ads because they are intrusive, contain scam and viruses
- I don't want to pay YT because I am already the product, and my trust is long gone about them saying they respect my privacy
- "Hosting is expensive" is what we hear left and right but...
- letting people upload many hours long is not what YT was supposed to be,
- 4K vids and up are huge, so is HDR, do we really need such fat video files/streams? I don't...
- for those who need 2000inch TV size quality, yeah, they want to charge those.
- I would be OK to pay, but google will rise the price eventually and it feels like changing a contrcat I signed to begin with and I dan't agree with that. (price raising reason are the previous points above, I am not concerned by those and I don't see why I should pay that much)
- I am a google pixel user, google already got some of my money anyway, which I am happy with.
In the same vein, I wait Netflix to raise their price again (I bit the bullet twice) but there won't be a third time.
Same for Spotify.Those services should realize they are not essential, just bare useful, and should be priced as such.
Just my 2cts.
While I can agree with the 4K argument a bit for the hosting is expensive part, I do think it goes way beyond that or long videos. Youtube exists on a scale most don't even realize. Tens of millions of people upload content every day. We're talking thousands of hours worth of video every day.
Not to excuse YouTube for a lot of dumb decisions they made, but even on their best day the site just breaks even due to the cost of hosting.
Reading your comment made me realize something important.
Creators should pay the hosting of the files (at a reasonnable rate of course), so the longer and higher quality they want to upload, they have to pay a little fee. Now, it'll certainly skim off the stupid random uploads that nobody need, and lower storage cost of useless videos. (I only have a couple of vids, I don't mind paying for the storage to keep them live, and I stop paying, they are free to delete them, no problem)
Next, viewers should pay for the streaming, which is legit anyway, why not, as far as it is at a - yet again - reasonable price.
This should make the plateform content of better quality without all the shit posts, then less ads for the free viewers if reasonable would be enough.
Problem is Google is greedy beyond return, they'll never take a good decision that favorites us instead of them.
My opinion anyway.
I don’t want to pay YT because
I started paying them and they jacked up the prices the next month leaving like 12 dollars stranded in my account because I use a gift card. Fuck their premium subscription.
Nebula
As soon as I have to see ads, I'm gone. Not mad, I get the business need for them. It's just not worth it for me. Most of my actual subscriptions are through a rss reader, and that effectively blocks all but the sponsorblock ones. For which I have sponsorblock.
It's not really a business 'need' unless you consider milking customers for everything they've got.
Youtube has been profitable for years. It is profitable right now.
I finally bit the bullet and switched from Chrome to Firefox last night after they flagged my adblock for YouTube as malware and forcefully disabled it. Fuck that noise.
FYI if you delete your watch history, then watch one video, you can pause it again and get a proper homepage. Just don't clear that one video. I just clicked on a DJ set from someone I liked three weeks ago as that one video and it hasn't broken again since.
I switched to Firefox a few years ago when Chrome started forcing HDCP, my uBlock hasn't been affected at all in the most recent changes.
Nice tip m8, im gonna be trying this one when i get the chance.
YouTube is straight up evil. We need an alternative solution.
Any alternative that hopes to last will need to be a paid service.
At which point, it's not really an alternative at all anymore.
Use an alternative front end like https://piped.video
You may want to try various instances (in preferences) as the main one has been under a lot of load
My Ublocker works fine, and I have never seen this message come up
Silly question if you don't mind me asking, when you got the pop up:
- Which browser/adblocker where you using (also did you use any custom filters)?
- What device are you watching youtube on when you saw the block (windows, macos, ios, android, linux)?
- Where are you located? (like which country)
I never saw these popups just curious.
Also my setups using a web browser (no issues):
- (Mac OS Soma) Firefox Stable with ublock origen stock filters
- (iPadOS 17) with adguard safari content blocker stock filters
Setups with third part clients (no issues):
- Revanced android
- Smarttube (Fire TV)
- YTLitePlus (iPadOS)
you can use ReHike to get the 2017 layout back which does not have this issue, combined with uBlock origin.
Can it turn the whole internet back to 2017 or even further please?
You could just start using a frontend like the rest of us
honestly at this point I don't even understand using the normal youtube front end anymore. I have been using piped as my youtube app on my phone for a while, and I think it's time I switch frontends. What sucks is video is one of the few things we don't have a decent way of federating right now just due to the sheer volume of disk space required.
We could if we lowered our standard. 480p is better than nothing.
You have to start somewhere and build up. YouTube started with 360p back in the day.
Yes but thats not really an option this time.
Back then monitors where more primitive and mobile wasnt even a platform back then, not even mentioning broadband internet speeds compared to what we have today as standard.
360 looks worse in modern day devices than in ancient cubic monitors.
You have to build a sub list with FreeTube, but it's well worth it. There's an import from youtube feature, but I haven't been successful in making it work.
I’m still surprised what platforms make money WITH the content that USERS make , charge or restrict USERS view. It’s kinda crazy model that people accepted for so many years. For one side this is good because it will make users to reconsider what they do and how they corporations make money from it. Google money model has a date of death.
So with this known…when do you think YouTube will start banning accounts or giving out account strikes?
good for you to go to such lengths to get their crap out of your life. I suggest odysee/lbry and various peertube instances
They could always make actual relationships with advertisers and host ads on their own site. And make it not interfere with the content itself. Difficult concept, I know.
Last month, they required you to turn on Youtube History to view the feed of youtube videos recommendations
I see this as an absolute win!
I was disappointed it didn't apply to YouTube when not logged in, since I'd love a clean interface without recommendations.
just zap the recommendations with uBlock
I just got this for the first time today. I was able to dismiss it and go on to watch ad blocked YouTube on Firefox, but I wonder how much longer this will be an option. Nebula and Curiosity Stream are looking really good right now.
oh no think of the children - piped bot - run!
Shhhh! When YouTube thinks of the children they disable the comments!
And downvotes. Participation awards soon.
SOLUTION:
- just right click on the message and 'block element' :D
or paste this to your filters: www.youtube.com##tp-yt-paper-dialog.ytd-popup-container.style-scope www.youtube.com##.opened
It’s working perfectly in Safari, loaded up with ad blockers and Vinegar. I’m streaming ad-free tropical 4k jungle sounds from my Mac Mini as we speak.
Hopefully I don't get this! I only started using an ad blocker on YouTube in the last year or so when the amount of ads became too much.
You weren't on Piped or Invidious already? /hj
Use alternative yt front ends? YT Vanced, PipePipe, YMusic, and so on...
Firefox with exentions or on PC?
I have not seen any of this on my end, my IP does get blocked though, I just change it.
I wonder how they are rolling it out.
I reckon they're rolling it out bit by bit. So as to not upset everyone at once. Though I feel there'll be a work around anyway.
This will just get us to take that one extra step. I know so many people that have never heard of ad block! And this is going to affect those that will stop at ad blocking extensions and give up when that doesn't work.
Exactly. Meanwhile in this post there are people begging others to turn off Adblock and sub to YT premium for creators sake lmao
As if handing Google your money helps creators, nobody owes anyone a damn ad view let alone multiple unskipables
True.
Many will help the people they like with donations and other ways instead of helping Alphabet (google) and the like.
I'd honestly get on board with services like nebula assuming they had support for third party clients.
Thanks to this comment I discovered F-Droid and downloaded PipePipe
You are welcome!
While I believe that this may be a hostile decision, it was inevitable. A lot of YouTube's revenue comes from ads. Use piped or something
I just got this popup today too, but only in Brave, it doesn't show up in Firefox and LibreWolf at all and I use uBlock Origin for all of them. Looks like it's just a Chromium thing. I mainly use Firefox anyway, I only use Brave as a music player at work because I have too many FF tabs opened in 3 windows already.
Once everyone views the ads, the view per ads value will drop and become worth less, no creator will ever get more money. As if YouTube will miss out and pass down their revenue to the small people, lol.
After the History changes I switched to Grayjay.
Is there a reasom paying them is so bad? I can spit on Reddit because they basically freeloading from user generated content(or stolen content) and strongarm everyone into working for them, but at least Youtube allow their content creator to monetize their content, even though they sometime ban one stuff but not the other(one veritasium video got demonetized due to containing suicide in the story), so paying to remove ads in both youtube and music is kinda a win for me, so i'm not entirely sure why the hostility on this.
Personally, I was fine with paying for "Premium Lite", which was reasonably priced, removed ads, and gave channels you watched some revenue.
But youtube removed this subscription tier a few weeks ago, leaving only the twice as expensive "Premium". Since I, and I assume most others who subscribed to "Premium Lite", has no use for the other stuff included in the more expensive tier the cost is no longer justified for me. Back to finding increasingly exotic ways of getting around their ads I guess.
An Apple product and the paid apps AdGuard, Baking Soda and Vinegar.
Revanced?
I'm still using premium lite. They've startet to give me ads for the full premium, wich wasn't the case some time back. But I just X out that ad and use lite as always
NewPipe
Is there a reasom paying them is so bad? It's Google.
I concede that a part of the money goes to the content creators, but I can't reconcile paying Google with my conscience. IMO, they are the greatest danger to the Internet, pushing on all fronts to make it a corporate hellscape.
I rather use Patreon and/or Nebula to support content creators, even if it is more expensive and less convenient.
On iOS I use uYou Plus loaded with SideStore. No ads, you can save videos and more.
But I delete my history every 1 week instead of every 3 months. So they don't get much from my choices. It still did a pretty good job of showing me stuff I was interested in watching.
Why are you not using a Piped or Invidious instance?
Vinegar for Safari still works fine, it changes the player with a pure html5 one
I tried to watch a stream uploaded on YouTube and they put adrolls every 5 minutes, for a 3+ hour video. It was unwatchable. Sucks that pretty much every site is fucking over its users lately. Maybe it's a sign I should just get away from the internet for a while.
the battle between ad-blockers and ad-blocker-blockers is eternal. adblockers will adapt.
if i block ads, it's only fair that google tries to block my blocking of their ads. calling this "enshittification" is silly, they didn't make their product worse they just are doing a better job of enforcing the rule that's always been there.
https://revanced.net/ (Android)
For windows or linux just use Brave browser.
No more ads, no more adblock detection.
You're welcome.
Here’s an interesting idea: pay for what you consume. We can argue whether ads or a YouTube Premium are a fair price, but I don’t think you’d have a moral or legal leg to stand on if your argument is that Google must provide you with hosting and streaming for free.
You are consuming resources on Google’s computers. I think they have a right to ask for payment.
To me, the ad tracking industry is completely out of control, and I’m not going to disable my ad blocker. So I signed up for YouTube Premium.
I hear you but this seems to largely ignore that we are all already paying google, a lot. It is only thanks to their unscrupulous private data harvesting that they have become the mastodon they are. This has been going on for so long and only in the recent past to we get the scale of this effort. Now they want us to pay them too, while nothing is changing on the data privacy side? Frankly, I don't think they deserve our trust. It's not like paying makes them get any less of our private data, so they are basically double dipping. That does not sit well with me.
I'm all for paying for a due service, but I also have expectations of data privacy rights. Those are mostly vanishing into thin air with google...
To me, the ad tracking industry is completely out of control, and I’m not going to disable my ad blocker. So I signed up for YouTube Premium.
And you're paying to keep it that way. You're not paying for the added value YT Premium supposedly has, but to disable the enshitification they added on purpose for you to pay.
The only added value premium has is being able to switch off the screen and maintain YT playing. Still I'm not paying a 14$ subscription just for that. I pay that value for much more valuable software for my every day use with real added value.
Here's an idea: my user activity generates marketable data for Google, so get rid of the ads or start paying me.
Fuck Google, I'm not paying them shit.
However, when Google and Amazon are nationalized then I'll agree. Everyone should pay taxes which go into the government owned server farms.
They still harvesting your data. So not only do you pay for product monthly but you also pay with your data.
This data is so important they are able to subsidize either YouTube or YouTube music.
Legally I have no right.
Morally I have right to pay to not be tracked. If thats the case I would pay.
But paying a high price for one product forced to get at same time being harvesting my data?
No thanks I will watch my YouTube free as I am already paying them with my data.
Pay for what you consume is a fantastic idea for a service that hasnt been free for it's lifetime, and only really grew popular because it was free. Just like every other company, it seems YT would rather keep squeezing every last cent out of the consumer in hopes of a "record profit year!".
You are consuming resources on Google’s computers. I think they have a right to ask for payment.
You already paid for those resources, at least half of it. YouTube put caching appliances on your ISP data center, and they don't pay for electricity and bandwidth to your ISP you paid for. YouTube cost for serving video is incredibly low, yet they keep increasing the subscription price. This is purely money grabbing by Google instead of simply covering their cost. They are already profitable before removing their lowest subscription tier.
It's totally not fair that a Bently costs so much money. Sure, I could, you know, buy a different car, but fuck Bently for their unfair pricing model, so I regularly steal them.
I'm sure Bently would love to have me not stealing their cars and Google could not give less of a fuck about not having to lose money from you consuming content and server resources without paying. Over half of the money YouTube makes goes to creators. Consider who you're stealing from.
Edit: you = OP
It's mind-blowing how people think they have a God-given right to freeload and leech off of the tech, music, film and television industries. For big tech in particular they whine and bitch about having to watch ads, having their data collected in bulk and being asked to pay for services they've been using for free for years. Meanwhile content creators on YouTube in particular have been hit by many unpopular advertiser friendly guidelines and taken many revenue hits because Google remain beholden to their key stakeholders which are the advertisers. Adblock users are part of the reason why so many content creators have to now resort to shilling crappy VPNs or mobile gacha games in every single one of their videos just to break even.
Similar argument goes with the entertainment industry. "How fucking dare they stop me from stealing all these shows and movies!" "How fucking dare they move their stuff to rival streaming services!" It's more baffling that they think a single $9.99 a month ad-free subscription is going to pay for an entire industry when production costs are skyrocketing and the industry previously enjoyed much higher pricing under the cable model.
"This shit is getting as bad as cable" is another argument I often see thrown around by people justifying piracy because they want to freeload, as if you are being forced to subscribe to every single platform all at once. Cable hardly even gave consumers that choice to pick and choose. You had to pay dozens, if not over a hundred dollars a month to Comcast, TWC, etc for access to everything, even a lot of stuff you otherwise didn't want to watch.
ITT: Entitled users think they deserve YouTube without paying for it.
Be honest with yourself, you are entitled. Stop acting like youtube is fucking you over by enforcing what is a reasonable policy for those who refuse to pay with their money.
Piracy is also entitlement. I am honest with myself when I pirate and use ad blockers on the internet. Why can't you be?
You can downvote me all you want but at the end of the day I am right and you are immature for not being able to handle admitting you're doing things off the moral high road you want to believe you're on.
Stop using YouTube if you can't get what you want out of the service. A lot of lemmy users did the same with Reddit, it's within your reach. If you don't like how YouTube is (and it does suck if you arent a yt premium user) and your ad blocker no longer works, it's time to find a new platform that preserves your privacy and respects your rights as a user. Just don't act so goddamn entitled.