TIL that Ferrari & Lamborghini no longer make cars with a manual transmission

i am not ordering cars from them anymore /s

yeah me too. I was like, about to and stuff.
Well then, I'm going to order twice as many cars from them next year as I did last year.
Thank god you put the /s there.

Plenty of brands stopped offering manual variants of plenty of models. IIRC BMW practically begged people to stop asking for manual variants, saying it just does not make any sense to mess with the supply chain and the production line and the car itself just to put an objectively inferior transmission inside it.

On the contrary, it makes no sense to put automatic transmissions into sports cars.
On public roads, you're not gonna be able to drive them as fast as they can go anyway.
An automatic transmission may offer better performance, but you have 5x as much of that as you can use already.
What a manual transmission offers is the feeling of being in full control.
It's simply more fun and engaging to drive.

But apparently, cars aren't made to offer the best experience possible anymore.
Auto transmissions are now cheaper and anyone can drive them, so the potential market is bigger. And that's what matters, even up to the Lamborghini price bracket.
- What a manual transmission offers is the feeling of being in full control.
  
  Being able to maintain a gear selection and being able to directly control the clutch are huge advantages in specific conditions like extreme weather or some off road terrain. A surprise shift during a curve in icy conditions makes me nervous every time for example.
  
  If an automatic system allowed for direct control of gears and the ability to disengage and reingage the clutch on demand it would cover those scenarios.
- What is "best experience" though? It's such a subjective thing. For you it might be pushing a lever back and forth. For every one person like you, I bet there are hundreds who'd rather leave that menial task to the car. Manual transmission can quickly stop being "fun and engaging" and become a chore, especially if you drive through traffic regularly.
  
  I, or rather my left leg, personally do not consider manual transmission as a good experience at all. I also think paying much less for fuel is also a very good experience for my wallet. Though of course I don't drive a Lamborghini or even a nice M4, so there's that.
- They quit offering sticks because they use dual clutch transmissions, which do the job better.
The M series cars still have manual as an option, although IIRC the automatic versions have better performance. They're a bit outside of my price range, so I'm trying to keep my old manual 328i running as long as I can.
- They also offer it on the Z4 with the Handschalter package. Pretty sure this will be the last year of the Z4 tho.

I got my license in the early 80's, and at that time the cheapest cars were older american beaters with utterly terrible 2 and 3-speed slushbox automatics. The alternative were Japanese cars like Honda Civics, small, reliable, manual transmission cars that got great gas mileage and were way more fun to drive. All these years later I'm still driving a manual, currently a 2021 Toyota Corolla. It's paid for, it gets around 35 mpg, and with regular maintenance it will run until the end of time.

I know American cars have improved a lot since the malaise era but you generally can't get them with manual transmissions, so I'll stick with the imports for now.

I started driving around the same time as you. I remember how common real VW beetles were and I don't think any of them ever had automatic transmission - if they did I never saw one. I spent a summer driving one with no starter and a broken reverse gear, which meant I had to be very careful about where I parked it. Today's kids will never know the fun that came from that situation.
80’s

'80s

Well when your customer base is mostly geriatric...

I would guess that there's more demand for manuals from older people than from younger people. Younger people can't be nostalgic about stick shifting.
- I think there’s a word for it, but essentially false nostalgia. Gen. Z absolutely has a lot of nostalgia for things people say were great despite never experiencing it themselves.
- Younger people can't afford those cars anyway.

Yeah. You can't buy a ford or chevy pickup in the united states with a manual transmission anymore.

I know they're not supercars, or anything like that.

Big trucking companies are all going to automatic transmissions in their trucks as well.

I'm a school bus driver - buses with manual transmissions are long gone. The drug use and child molestation filters weed out enough potential drivers as it is.
- That escalated quickly...

What Ferrari and Lamborghini does doesn't concern me but I'll keep buying cars with manual transmission for as long I can get one. I wouldn't buy a new car anyway so that alone gives me atleast 10 extra years. I still refuse to buy smartphones without a headphone jack either. Why? Mostly because of a principle.

What is the principle for manual cars?
- They prefer fondling long shafts.
- I don't mind driving a manual. Every car I've owned has had a manual transmission so automatic would be a solution to a problem that I don't have. I like driving and I don't want the car to do the driving for me.
- More fun to drive. Id still have a stick shift if we hadn't decided to switch to EVs.
- I have not had a manual in many years, but I will say I would prefer to have one because, whether or not it's actually true, I felt like I was in more control of the car and, because of that, felt safer. The peace of mind was nice.
I still refuse to buy smartphones without a headphone jack either.

I'm running out of options and I may have to consider a jackless phone next. What are the options?
- I went with Samsung XCover 6 Pro. Not only has it a headphone jack but a removable battery as well.
- Sony. Even their flagship phones have headphone jack afaik.
  
  Which unfortunately, isn't available in my country.
- If you truly must use your wired headphones with your cell phone? They make some really nice small form factor USB C to audio jack adapters. Hell, saw a few that were cable+adapter+AudiophileApprovedDAC for what that is worth.
Just bought a car with a manual transmission and I love it. Someone mentioned in this thread that they didn't want the car to do the driving for them and I couldn't agree more. Having control over the acceleration makes such a difference.

Honestly DCTs make up for it, especially when your customer base is mostly people who don't know how to drive anyway.

Using a manual is easy, but using it to go fast can actually be pretty hard. You have to time everything right, compensate for a bunch of conditions, coax the shifter because its using synchros, feather the clutch accordingly, heel-toe downshift correctly, etc. It's extremely rewarding and useful if you actually want to have complete control over your car, but I doubt your average rich guy is gonna want to put that much effort into driving.

Manual shifting a modern Lambo would just be such a chore with how fast the RPM changes too (plus the loss of power from clutch would be even more noticeable). Current high end manuals just choose to stay with 6 gears so the gap stays comfortable, but you obviously lose some efficiency.

DCTs will do that all for you, the only thing you lose is a mechanical shifter (which if you're into manuals you very much miss lol) and the ability to do some clutch tricks (ie loss of some mechanical controls because its automatic).

Now putting a regular old torque converting automatic transmission into a sports car is a waste (and has many examples of such). They are very slow because they aren't deigned to rapidly change gears like you can in a manual. Even a CVT would be better from a practicality standpoint.

Formula 1 switched to semi-automatic in the 1980s. The technology has only improved over the last 40 years. If fast is what you want, driving a manual is insanity.
- Formula 1 switched to semi-automatic in the 1980s.
  
  Seeing how well it worked for VW in 1973 I'm glad someone tested it on the track.

I mean, the reality is that manual/standard transmissions are just fuel and effort inefficient at this point. There was a window where automatics were inefficient enough to make learning stick worth it but that is LONG gone. And CVTs, in apples for apples comparisons, kind of are the best of both worlds.

Still pretty shocked since I don't think anyone buys a ferrari or a lambo because they want a reasonable high quality car and nothing screams "I am compensating" like wrapping your hands around that shaft while you drive but... if the goal is performance?

The main reasons you wanted a manual back in the day was price - because automatic transmissions were expensive - and fuel economy - because they were less efficient. (To a lesser extent reliability, because automatics were newer and they hadn't worked out the kinks yet.)

However, the price of automatics fell, and the dual-clutch gearboxes with 7-10 gears are even more efficient because they keep the car in the most efficient rev range. Same goes for CVTs. And the dual-clutches shift faster than you ever could, so they're better for sports cars, which is why F1 switched to them a long time ago.

So it makes sense that manuals are falling out of favor because they're objectively worse in all respects compared to the transmissions available today. However, subjectively they're a lot more fun which is why I have a manual transmission car I plan on keeping on the road well into the 2050s.
- Fun and more control. I too am in the I bought a manual club. Twice my truck and my wife's car are both manual transmissions with a clutch (third pedal).
  
  I guess some of the new dual clutch transmissions are considered manual 🤔
I just find manuals more fun and engaging to drive. Even an 80hp shitbox is better with a manual.
- Fair enough. I usually take ten or twenty minutes of "So... let me just crank the radio up so you can't hear me mangling your transmission" in a parking lot/empty roads to "remember" how to drive stick, but it is a much more active style of driving.
  
  But that has nothing to do with safety. And, arguably, is considerably worse for it since it is less time focused on the road and, more importantly, the sides of the road. It is basically the opposite of the "autopilot" versions of Adaptive Cruise Control where it increases distractions and leads to less attentive drivers for whatever insanity other people are going to do.
  
  If I were buying a super fast fun car to use at the track or whatever? Well, I would want paddle shifters because the real vroom vrooms have those. But a stick shift and a clutch are a close second.
  
  But for something that I am going to drive in rush hour traffic or do a 10 hour drive to my favorite climbing spot every couple weeks?
CVTs, in apples for apples comparisons, kind of are the best of both worlds.

In theory they have advantages, but in practice they're probably the worst kind of transmission you could get right now unless you're driving a low-horsepower econo-car. (Even then I don't think I'd want one; I'd rather pay a little more for gas than risk an expensive early transmission failure.)
- Subaru WRX with the Performance Transmission be like
Ferrari does it because they openly disdain their own customers. You will get performance the Ferrari way and you will like it. You're lucky we even allow you to buy it. We put in the finest dual clutch transmission available because that's the highest performance.

Lamborghini does it because they're Audi's with sharp edges. Audi is a company that advertises that its top trim can fit a set of golf clubs in back. They don't want to bother their golf customers with a third pedal.
- We put in the finest dual clutch transmission available because that’s the highest performance.
  
  Reminds me of this conversation from Top Gear
- Half of them have had hip replacements, and half of them were on the left side, so they can't work the clutch.

I know autos are faster these days but manuals are so much more fun and always will be. It really sucks that they're going away :(

They're all fun and games until you're in stop go traffic. I agree though I miss driving a manual. Also they were easier to work on and tended to be cheaper to fix. That might not be the case anymore considering you're pretty much guaranteed to to have to special order parts.
- Stop and go traffic with a manual after working out legs is something special
- I actually found stop and go traffic jams with a manual easier. All i needed was the clutch and id use it to drive the average speed of the stop and go traffuc jam, even if it was 0.5km/h. Cant do that on my automatic, it will speed up to a set amount of km if i release the break and press the gas even a little.
  
  Edit: i will admit i have big feet and driving is more foot work for me than it is leg work. My legs barely move while driving, not even to go from gas to break, so it might be easier for me, idk
- I guess it depends on the car, but most modern cars it's NBD to drive manual in stop-and-go traffic. There are a handful of models that can make it a pain (e.g. Challenger, Nissan Z), but Honda and Mazda and many others are easy peasy even in dense traffic.
And propulsion, way funner even if it's worse.
I would disagree if we were talking about regular cars, but these hypercars should've manual transmissions still since they are an experience and I would think people, specially those in europe, actually take them to a track.

High-end has all been sequential for like a decade

Most super-cars are not a sequential. A sequential is usually the type of transmission you find in motorcycles. Most flappy paddle transmissions found in sports cars are either a dual clutch automatic or an automated manual.
- Ok that's the kind I meant, I'd say I'm right of the curve on car knowledge but I don't like design gearboxes for Ferrari or anything. Genuinely appreciate the correction.
- They shift sequentially though via the paddles on the wheel.
And recently also top end midrangers for some reason.
GMA T50 begs to differ.

It's not that I like manuals, it's that I hate automatics randomly shifting and accelerating/slowing down randomly because of it.

It might not be as big an issue in bigger engines cars though, not driven anything bigger than a 1L engine in over a decade.

Looking forward to a direct drive electric car (with customisable acceleration profiles - even better!)

Don't these sports cars usually have a mode where you can manually shift gears, but not with a clutch, but via the auto transmission?
- Yes. There are +/- paddles on mine.
  
  Source: My 2015 Hyndai Veloster TURBO
My e-cvt is nice. No shifting at all and it is quite responsive.

I didn't know what a dual clutch transmission was and found this excellent video while searching. Figured I would share it here. Pretty awesome! You get the direct gearing benifits of a manual with the shifting ease and speed of an automatic.

https://youtu.be/AeAh2KCvE2I

I once had a Veloster with a dry plate dual clutch. Identical in design to a standard manual, just with a different clutch system and input shafts design, and computery bits controlling it.

If you drove it the way you drive a stick, it would last a long time.

Got almost 175,000 miles on it before it had any problems. At that mileage, the car was well and truly worn out, so not worth fixing, but I would have fixed the problem (failed 2nd clutch motor, common issue on the KIA/Hyundai DCT) if the car wasn't all worn out.
- My friend has a Veloster with the DCT. My favorite feature is that the car has hill hold, but it still rolls back like a manual transmission half the time.
  
  Also the DCT gets confused pretty easily. At least once in a 15 minute drive I’ll have it fail to shift properly and the whole car jitters. Or it just picks the wrong gear then immediately has to shift again.

So you need to download a pdf?

It's taken me a while, but I'm okay with automatic transmissions on cars now. OTOH, you can have the manual transmission on my motorcycle when you pry that clutch lever from my cold, dead hands. (I have a speed shifter on my motorcycle now, and I barely ever use it.)

Because nobody wants them. Or rather not enough people want them. Hell, kids these days don't even want to get their drivers licenses. For them Uber is good enough.

Ok, so they're performance focused. Who is making cars that are built for the most engaging driving experience? Are those "drive a slow car fast" type cars all already built?

Mazda.
- Zoom Zoom
- I want my next car to be a Miata.
Porsche continues to sell manuals, but alas did do away with it on the upcoming Carrera 992.2 and gts. They have a 40% overall manual sales per this: https://www.motor1.com/news/705017/manual-transmission-sales-2023/

Bmw and others do have high individual model manual take rates (bmw m2/ct5 blackwing e.g. at 60/50% respectively.)

But they'll always be the less performance option, though more "engagement".
- There is definitely a market for cars that take a loss in performance to give a boost in engagement.
Caterham
I love my GR86, it's a fantastic car! It's the only car I've ever enjoyed as much as my wife's Miata, and I fit more comfortably into it too.

I made the mistake of buying an automatic once and i still regret it to this day because I'm still stuck with it.
Manuals only for me since then

I don't give a shit that autos are faster, i don't give a shit if they're more efficient. Manuals are simply more satisfying and enjoyable—and that's what driving is about.

Is that what driving is about? For me driving is about that I don't live in the supermarket and I need the shit they have in there.
- No, driving is about keeping the Saudi wealth faucet working.
- Different people enjoy cars different ways. For many it’s just a tool to get from point A to point B. These are the majority, and tend to be a crowd who is now trending towards EVs and Self Driving Vehicles.
  
  For others, driving is about the experience of how the car meets the road and is much less about the destination. I just planned a 10 hour drive with a group of my car friends with no destination, we’re just doing it to get out on some fun roads with our cars. These type of people love our manual transmissions, ICE cars and the experience of driving and see the car as less of a tool and more of a hobby and something to bring groups together.
- Don't drive if you don't want to. There are other means of transport.
I bought a automatic bmw for the first time and was like: wow this is great. Being in traffic is way more relaxing and so on. I thought to myself: wow my last car was the last manual car i ever owned. Now i went back to manual and i couldn't be happier. A lot of people tell me that aktually automatic is so much faster and you can't shift as fast and so on. Yeah. I know. But i'm not racing anyone. I just drive on the weekends with a car that i lke.
Exactly, is just straight up for fun. I'd argue they're safer too. You pay way more attention in a stick shift, looking ahead timing shifts with traffic flow, leaving space and coasting to red lights, and the extra speed control on steep windy mountain roads is amazing especially in the winter.

Was lucky to get a 2021 Crosstrek in a manual, which I guess Subaru doesn't do in Canada anymore, so it'll likely be the last ICE car I have. If I'm joining the zombie horde of alternating mashing gas or brake depending what's happening 10m in front of me I better at least get some torque out of it.
I wish it were easier to find a manual here. Most people in the States couldn't drive them if their lives depended on it, so if they're manufactured at all it's in very small quantities.
- I've been driving used BMW Z3s for the last 15+ years. These days they're way cheaper than even the crappiest normal used cars because nobody can drive a stick any more and nobody wants to have a two-seater as their daily driver. They cost less than a new bicycle (although that's because modern bicycles have absolutely insane price tags attached to them).
- I am so annoyed at Honda for discontinuing the Accord Sport 6 speed. I have one from about 10 years back and it is without question the best balance between efficiency, space, utility and fun. It is my "mom car" that can get the kids to school (now they even drive themselves, college daughter drops off high school kid on her way to school) and drives like a dream. I thought the Sport thing was just trim but apparently not, it handles better than my husband's Mazda.
  
  It's not like I need a new one right now, or maybe even for ten more years. But God I miss being able to get manual shift at a discount instead of a premium. Honestly this is probably my last gas car and maybe last car, but dammit I am just sad.
Driving is about butt-chuggig 50 years of american propaganda to the point you can't even differentiate you own opinion from a Facebook minions meme.

But yeah have fun filling yours and the rest of our bloodstreams with micro plastics cause vroom is more important
- Jesus Christ. Breathe.

Will we see a similar post when they completely switch over to steer by wire?