It’s time for Americans to embrace small cars
It’s time for Americans to embrace small cars
Small cars are good for us but bad for business.
My previous car is a Yaris.
When I got the Yaris I heard people make snide comments like "Anyone see that big guy get out of that tiny car?" then gas prices went up and they became "Hey, what kind of MPG does that thing get?"
I like hatchbacks. Bigger is fine but nothing huge.
My current car is an '07 Yaris. It's totally bare bones, but everyone who has been in it comments on how spacious the interior is.
I've always driven small cars, because they're economical and I've never needed anything larger. I hate that small hatchbacks are so scarce in the US and that our roads are overrun with ludicrously huge pickups and SUVs. We transitioned from land yachts to small cars in the late 1970's and 1980's, we could do it again with the right incentives.
My current car is an ‘07 Yaris too. It’s also totally bare bones including manual windows and locks and no cruise control (the only feature I sometimes wish it had). It’s economical and much funner to try drive than most bigger cars, trucks, and SUVs. And on multiple occasions I have been able to parallel park it in tight spots that cars in front of me had to pass on.
I drive an Auris station wagon Hybrid (aka, the US Corolla iM with bigger boot). I had a chance to drive multiple Yaris generations and honestly I am always surprised by how roomy it is inside. They made a perfect use of space - way better than VW did with Polo (smaller Golf), that’s for sure…
I have a Yaris and think it's too big. It's 20cm longer than my previous car (2005 Clio) but somehow has less interior space, it feels cramped.
Yaris gang rise up!
Want to trade my 09 in for a more recent model, hatchback would be ideal
The ease of driving and parking in a car that small is insane. I thought my little Outlander Sport was a big difference from my last car, then I saw my buddy's Yaris easily make a U turn on a narrow 2 lane road.
I love that this has become the hatchback and Yaris love thread. As a GTI owner it makes me happy. I do not want nor need to go any bigger. It's almost the perfect car.
My Yaris is actually older than me. so old in fact, that it was called "vitz" and/or "echo" in some countries. i am the 4th owner. had to replace the starter, all the fluids and the clutch (cuz old people). best car ever. it has around 100.000 km on it and runs like it rolled out of the factory just yesterday. considering we euros pay up to 7€ per gallon it's good i still get around 40mpg out of it. love that thing.
As a taller woman my wife was against us getting a subcompact until I took her to test drive it thinking I wouldn’t fit. Between seeing how comfortable and efficient it was she was entirely on board
Just got a ford focus hatchback last year after a 95 suburban. Love it. Fits everywhere and fun to drive
Honda Fit gangg
Americans need to embrace public transit. We need trains that don't completely suck in both speed and schedule reliability.
We're never going to convince a lot of folks to leave their lifted F-150 or massive Suburban behind for a small car. But quality, affordable public transit that is not only efficient but saves money over owning a car would actually make a difference. We're more likely to be able to get people to just leave the F-150 in the driveway and eventually move away from it.
Much better for the environment, too, and reduces traffic / congestion, etc. I agree smaller cars would be good, but the goalpost should be getting away from the automobile.
Americans have absolutely embraced public transit. It’s just that not a lot of cities have robust systems in place, but go somewhere like NYC or Chicago and you’ll see a transit system that millions rely on daily.
Public transit needs to do what it says on the tin. People won't choose public transit if it's the choice between an hour commute each way and a 3 hour each way bus ride.
americans will embrace small cars like they embrace gun control
We embraced the shit out of them during the oil crisis in the '70's. Then when gasoline got cheap again we snapped right back.
"But my SUV makes me feel so 'safe' and gives me a commanding view of the road!!!!!!"
I am of the opinion that everyone ought to just get a motorcycle.
I think there should be a separate license to drive SUVs and Trucks over a certain size. And that maintaining that license should be a bit of a hassle - like a required in-person written and practical test every 2 years. If people want that commanding view of the road and "safe" feeling that comes from endangering everyone else on the road, then they should have to put in some extra effort - not enough extra effort that it's unattainable for those who actually have a need for a vehicle of that size, but enough effort that it would discourage the widespread use we have currently.
I'd love to have a motorcycle that would replace my current vehicle, but it would need to be capable of keeping me warm while handling well in heavy snow. Afaik, there aren't any enclosed bikes out there
When you need a fucking step ladder to get into your jacked up pickup just so you can commute or get groceries you might have lost your mind.
I am of the opinion that everyone ought to just get a motorcycle.
I'd rather not die tyvm.
The US EPA currently penalizes smaller cars thanks to a poorly thought out rule for fuel economy that scales by wheelbase size, making larger cars easier to meet requirements for. The EPA has made many embarrassingly backwards decisions, but this might be the worst.
I was taxed an extra $150 to register a 2002 Honda Insight last year. It was for a "Hybrid Tax" because hybrid owners buy less gas and therefore are paying less tax on gasoline. Like, that's the whole point of driving a small car!
They did for a while in the 70s-80s until giant SUVs got everyone hot and bothered
With their face?!?
Normal sized cars* you mean.
Normal cars aren't small. They're just small if you compare them to the giant ridiculous trucks they have over that.
Bold idea here, but maybe if we stopped fucking subsidizing SUV's, people wouldn't buy so goddamn many of them. Just a thought.
Take a breath it’s ok
some reasons for the raise of vehicle size on the last decades are personal taste, but others are policy driven, we could look into that, as utility vehicles are treated differently in terms of emission requirements
Yup - in the US, pick-ups and SUVs are categorized as "light trucks," which have different fuel efficiency and emission standards and are therefore more profitable to produce.
Add to that some clever marketing to the effect of "big car = more manly/safe" and boom, now you see these big, stupid, fuel-ineffecient, dangerous vehicles everywhere.
Good job 👍
Not just that but the standards are also more lenient if the car is larger for its class which is part of why even small cars are bigger now.
I have heard also that a big car is better because a big car crashing with other bigger cars will increase the probability of surviving, but then it's a war of having the biggest car. It's basically the same as weapons.
Or an adequate mass transportation system.
My dream car is a Nash Metropolitan converted to an EV.
That would be fucking dope. I'd love for retrofuturist cars like this to appear
That's a pretty sweet ride.
Bro if you could get a used leaf gen one (they run around 4k), you could take that thing to a drag strip and absolutely turn some heads.
I have a friend who wants to take my gen one leaf and do a conversion. He just went to an EV mechanics course on it.
Same with a 1959 Panhard PL 17. Some of those little old cars are just beautiful.
You'd chop up a nash, and put an ev motor in it? I do not have kind words for you.
When I was in high school back in the late 70s you'd still see a few of those around. My friend had one, but not for long. Someone had put in a more powerful motor and if she wasn't careful accelerating she would snap the drive shaft.
Give me a new El Camino EV with a 400 mile range and I'm in.
All my road trips are around 150 miles and there may or may not be a charger at the destination.
The article says range isn't important...if you've ever looked at a map of the US, you'll see why that's a misguided statement.
To be fair, most people aren't driving across the US on an even yearly basis, if ever in their lives.
Yup, I'm OK with a Ranchero EV with a 150 mile range.
95% of trips are 30 miles or less. Of course everyone is the exception, we’re all above average drivers here.
I guess I'm in the 5 percent? But still small cars can take long trips. That's a frustrating thing, people assuming you need a modern day Conestoga wagon to do a road trip.
A car is too big of an investment to fail to take you from point A to B 1 in every 20 trips.
That's a terrible statistic...of course most of my travel happens around where I live.
If anything...that actually reveals long trips are more common than you think...For every 19 times you go to work or the store the 20th trip is significant...
In other words, if your number I right...Once to Twice a month the average person would likely require an extended range EV.
Something like the Maverick hybrid might be best for you.
But then you have to deal with driving a ford.
So I live in the cousin-fuckingly-deep south where 90% of what's on the road is trying its best to be a monster truck... I drive what looks like a pregnant rollerskate by comparison cuz I don't want to send half my paycheck into the gas tank.
It's funny-sad how the folks in the giant trucks get offended just by seeing my tiny car. Every day there's always at least one asshole in an F-350 or some shit that likes to ride up on my ass cuz I guess it makes them feel powerful? I just drop a mph every couple seconds until either they fuck off or get annoyed enough to pass.
Anyway, moral of the story is that stupid-big vehicles are here to stay in the US, at least in the regions occupied by Y'all Quaeda. Their trucks are one of their few sources of self esteem.
...I'm really tempted to find one of those rubber testicle things that the cowboys like to put between the rear wheels of their trucks, but like a comically tiny one, color it like the trans flag, and hang it on the back of my tiny car just to annoy the rednecks on the road. ...although here, that'd probably get my car or myself shot.
I got the chevy spark right before it got discontinued and the amount of people who comment on my small car in the south is obsurd. It's great being able to fit into a parking spot between 2 monster trucks and it only costs like 25 dollars for a tank of gas. People who see vehicles as more than just a means of transportation baffles me. I like the tiny truck nuts idea I might have to steal that.
Forget small cars, we should be embracing non-motorized ways of transit. Make things human-sized again and allow us to walk and/or bike to destinations rather than having to have a motorized vehicle to get around.
Public transit is obviously a good thing to have, but I think it’s also important to have alternate forms of transit as well.
I was just on Block Island, RI the other day. It’s a 10mi^2 island with ferry service and an airport square in the middle of it. Very seasonal economy and the residents are wealthy NIMBY-types.
No trams or trolleys or any mass transit on the island itself. Lots of mopeds and bikes and a surprising amount of cars. We were on foot to a restaurant and approached a 4-way stop and both myself (pedestrian) and the bicyclist next to me were amazed at how hard it was to cross the street with all the taxis and rental cars around.
What a shame. The island should be a model of an ideal “minimal car” community, and could easily become it.
That's all fun and games until weather happens...and weather is going to happen a lot going forward.
I moved to Europe, grew up in New York near the City and decided to get a moped here to commute. It's roughly equivalent to an Ebike but was actually cheaper than one and has a 100km range. It's not highway legal as it has a top speed of 45km/h but can go on bike paths as long as I watch the speed.
After 3 months since I got the moped I am going to get a car because FUCK going to the office in the rain with that thing. The trains and/or busses go on strike about once a month, maybe a little less, and between delays and cancelations I can't rely on them for my commute. I've literally been waiting for the bus and the driver just decides not to stop to pick me up too. Also packages don't get reliably dropped off at my front door so I need to go into town or to the supermarket next to the highway to pick up my things which becomes untenable when they are bulky. Instead I'm taking taxis at a cost of €30 each way just to pick up shit that should be left at my door.
The dissonance is strong, I still need a car, and I still need one big enough to move bulky crap at least once a month if not more.
And before someone says rent a car, it's €70+ a day to do so here and I have a preferred account through my employer. I need to book it in advance so it's not a "same day" thing. Oh and the places they drop the packages off have weird fucking opening times and are often closed when they should be open so I've literally spent €60 on taxis to come home with nothing. That time the seller did me a solid and refunded me the €60 as an apology (it was a €350 item).
Cars have gotten bigger externally, but internally it seems storage space is actually going down. My 2014 Nissan Note has a 10% larger storage capacity than a 2023 Renault Espace, even tho the latter is 50cm larger in all three dimensions and is literally called 'spatious'.
It's time for Americans to stop spending so much time in their cars. Emissions from burning hydrocarbons are destroying the planet.
Problem is that American cities were designed around cars. Getting anywhere on foot, especially for those who live in suburban areas, is basically impossible.
It's not just the cities. Try living anywhere in the US that's not a city.
Hard to avoid spending so much time in our cars when rent and housing prices force us to live in them.
I'm not saying you are wrong, because you are definitely right, but I just want to put some context/scale along side this.
28% of greenhouse gas emission comes from transportation. of that 28%, 58% of that is classified as light-medium duty vehicles (consumer vehicles). So ~16% (58% of 28%) of greenhouse emissions are from consumer daily life.
16% is pretty big. Id love to see a dent in that. However, another 48% of the overall greenhouse emissions is energy production (25%) and industry (23%), and I think that's another area we can probably hammer on hard, and should probably start there since its a considerably larger percentage, and the targeted base actually has funds to make changes.
I have a Volt, and I resent how few compact hybrid options there will be when I get a replacement. When I drive around, I literally struggle to see around the giant land boats cruising around. They hold up parking lots trying to stuff themselves into spaces, and if I get hit by one I'm much more likely to be injured. Average car size is kind of a tragedy of the commons. Everyone suffers when the cars get bigger, but the individuals with the dumb land boats suffer little of the cost.
tragedy of the commons
TILAW (today I learned a word):
The tragedy of the commons is a metaphoric label for a concept that is widely discussed in economics, ecology and other sciences. According to the concept, should a number of people enjoy unfettered access to a finite, valuable resource such as a pasture, they will tend to over-use it, and may end up destroying its value altogether. To exercise voluntary restraint is not a rational choice for individuals – if they did, the other users would merely supplant them – yet the predictable result is a tragedy for all.
I love my 2017 Volt! I much prefer driving it to my in-law's enormous Dodge Ram and Audi Q7.
Long live the Volt!
Gen1 Honda insight here to corroborate. Trucks seem to intentionally pull in front of me, even when driving reasonably above the limit, just to prove a point. It's dumb.
Yes, and their headlights are at the perfect height for blinding me in the rear view
Here we have higher taxes for cars more than 4m long, so there are lots of small cars. Also, a lot of 3.99m cars.
Japan bases their taxes on engine size and gives significant tax brakes to cars 660cc and under. 3.0L and up are basically luxury vehicles there.
CAFE is killing the smaller vehicle. Vehicles are getting super round and boring for aerodynamics. Wheel base is getting longer. Track is getting wider. There's no such thing as a small truck. Everything is am SUV ("truck") or crossover (hatchback / station wagon). CAFE allows for less fuel efficiency for wider track and longer wheelbase and trucks over everything else.
Remember how VW got caught cheating on the mileage tests? Remember how every other major manufacturer was caught too?
The govt has set far too high of a standard for mileage, so car companies are making giant ass cars to meet (cheat) CAFE standards. The manufacturers have done everything they can but still can't meet the standards.
The problem with CAFE is that it does not apply to trucks and SUV's. So bear with me for a moment:
You are a car executive, choosing what car to make. On one hand, say there's a station wagon. On the other, say there's an SUV. The bean counters assure you they cost about as much to produce, but the station wagon has to comply to stricter regulations, and the engineers tell you they'll have to work harder to make the station wagon comply to the law.
Meanwhile, the SUV costs about as much to make, but has way fewer rules it has to comply with. The marketing team tells you they can sell both vehicles just as well, though you may be able to set a higher sticker price for the SUV.
Do you build the more heavily regulated station wagon, knowing your margins are thinner? Or do you take the easier option with bigger margins and build the SUV?
You'll even see the outcome IRL. In the US, Ford tries to convince you that the car you need for your family is a pick-up truck with a crew cab. Meanwhile, in the European market, where larger cars start costing much more much sooner, the same segment gets offered a seven seater minivan.
There was a time back when gas prices got kinda high when I thought Americans would finally shift down to slightly smaller cars, but now it's practically a cultural thing for half the country to burn as much fuel as possible, so I suspect even if gas prices here hit Europe levels it wouldn't cause them to budge much.
It does feel really odd, though, going somewhere like a school and just being absolutely surrounded by huge SUVs and pickup trucks that you know damn well like 90% of the drivers aren't actually utilizing.
Double-sucks because it's becoming more and more difficult to find a small car. Everything new, even most cars, are huge.
I thought after 2008 that we had finally gotten over our large car addiction.
They're so addicted to SUVs now that Ford doesn't even make a car other than the Mustang. Their entire lineup is SUVs.
Looks to me like vehicle sales have been taking dramatically, probably due to the increased cost due to "supply chain". Also, EV sales grew 42.7% last year.
Even in Europe, finding a decent used hatchback is way harder than it used to be.
In California, America's largest state by population, our #1 selling vehicle is the Honda Civic. And driving on our roads, Civics, Corollas, Accords etc... dominate the roads. And even the biggest selling SUV the CRV gets like 30+ to the gallon.
Small cars sell in places where small cars work.
You list few vehicles but don't appear to know they are in different segments. They're not classified the same so you can't lump them together.
- Civic is small sedan or hatchback
- Accord is mid size sedan
- Corolla is small sedan or hatchback
- CRV is a mid size crossover
Small cars, and mid size cars for that matter, don't sell well in general. They're ~9% of total sales each. Luxury and full size sedans are like ~3% each but they are targeting a very specific demographic that know they'll always have a buyer.
People often blanket both true SUVs and Crossovers into the SUV category for simplicity. But they are in fact different. Crossovers do breakdown into multiple segments itself, though it's typically the mid and full size that sell very well. Collectively crossovers are ~48% of the market. A good example of how to differentiate is Ford Explorer is full size, Ford Escape is mid size, Ford EcoSport is small.
Trucks are ~19%, and actual SUVs are ~8%. For example the Ford F-150 and Ford Expedition share the exact same ladder chassis. Different bodies are bolted on. By this definition, SUVs don't sell well either. Lol. The terms gets muddied up due to mass consumer confusion.
Vans fill the rest of the percentage here, but are typically commercial and fleet.
It's time for Americans to embrace bicycles and ebikes and, gasp, walking
We Americans can't stand walking through the grocery store.
Never gonna happen. Where I live, it's not safe for my daughter to walk the 1/2 mile to school. To make it safe, we would need to install sidewalks throughout town. That's millions of dollars that less than 100
childrennon-taxpayers would use. And since the school is in the middle of a residential neighborhood, there's not really any other use of the sidewalks either...And since the school is in the middle of a residential neighborhood, there’s not really any other use of the sidewalks either…
As a European, this statement sounds completely insane. I honestly can not comprehend how a nation got to the point of saying "we don't need to be able to walk somewhere from our house so lets not bother building sidewalks".
You and your daughter should cycle to school though. If she's not old enough to go on her own bike, take her with a trailer bike. If she's too young for that then a child seat, and when she's old enough she can cycle on her own.
The idea of using a car to go 900m is just crazy to us.
First of all, either walking near the school is unsafe or the school in the middle of a residential neighborhood. You don't get to have it both ways!
Second, the idea that sidewalks are too expensive is obviously horseshit, considering that the alternative is widening the roads and they can somehow always find the much larger amount of money for that.
What you're saying is completely backwards.
If you install sidewalks, people will use it. Right now nobody walks because they can't. Install sidewalks and they will. Ensure there are places to go, so redesign your cities so that you have mixed use buildings. If you have small stores and bars and restaurants right around the corner, you'll walk.
In a residential area there are LOADS of uses for sidewalks. It's just that the car industry has programmed Americans to think their legs can't be used for anything. I love European cities, especially the Netherlands because you can safely walk and cycle anywhere. People don't want to own cars, why would they? Everything they need is around the corner, and if they need to go far away there is awesome public transportation that is better, safer, faster cheaper and more comfortable than cars.
To me you sound like somebody who doesn't know what he's missing out on because you've basically been lied to.
Ebikes are a bigger fucking hazard than cars, I've seen fucking morons on those doing speeds that you should have to be licensed for and should need insurance for.
You are kidding, right? A 17 year old irresponsible kid on a heavy bike going 30kms/hour (say, 20mph) vs irresponsible 17 year old kid in two tonnes of murder metal going 160 / 100mph, what's more dangerous?
Ebikes can and should be limited to 25-30 (say 15-20mph) and anyone breaking that loses their bike. It's not a big problem.
Cars are literally big problems
Edit: bikes require, just like cars, good infrastructure. Build that and it's good
That is barely even the start of what we need. It would do us better to embrace public transit and densification. If we all just switched to small cars instead it wouldn't solve the underlying issues with car dependent infrastructure. We'd still have wide swaths of useful land buried under miles of concrete and asphalt. We'd still have urban spaces that are hostile to anyone not in a automobile (admittedly somewhat less so). My commute time is nearly doubled simply because all of the parking lots I have to walk through. There's no need (outside of accommodating drivers) for everything to be separated by so much empty space.
Yeah, changing up cars seems like scratching at a symptom rather than the problem. If there are thousands of cars all headed in the same direction every day... It seems like offering a train would be pretty obvious win.
Trains are great for getting from one dense area to another. As soon as you need to go in any other direction though you are stuck. Plus the US is so spread out you still need a car to get to the station unless you live a mile or so near it and that is a pretty limited area.
It is amazing to think of how much land is buried under pavement. The problem is solving the "last mile" issue. You still need a car to get to the train station for instance.
Even in Europe we can't, since they replace them with fat Crossovers.
I've been casually looking for when my 80s hatchback dies and the choices are bleak. It seems like there are about 4 options for something of a similar size, half of those are just announced or coming out this year. And none of them start below ~$35k. Which would be fine, except there's been a few decades of everything getting bigger so it'll be another decade til these are in the used market, if they even take off.
The 2+2 is dead and the Crossover killed it.
I was on Greece a few weeks ago and the huge amount of cars were am all ones, like hyundai i2. It was real nice to see haha
Or, please, trains.
Increase the gas tax. Set registration fees per pound of car.
We know how to do this. We also know how scared politicians are of angering anyone.
And make it so expensive to drive that you kill the ability to drive for every poor person.
the only problem i had when i was driving a small car (i drive a mid-size car now) was my sense of vulnerability when surrounded by stupid massive lifted trucks bearing down on me. it felt really unsafe. and i live in stupid-giant-truck land, they're not an anomaly here.
eta - plus giant truck owners seem to get off on being scary aggressive drivers.
One potential remedy could be a powerful enough engine. Small car with fast powertains are preppy and can zip out of a dangerous situation quickly, so that can help your mind.
The trend in truck size is, well, yeah.
I want a small truck. Not the new small ones that are the size of 20yr old full-size trucks.
I wish you could get newer kei trucks in the states.
I'd kill for an 81 Rabbit pickup.
I'd like a hybrid truck similar in size to a chevy s10. 50-60 miles off electric with a switch over to gas. Use all electric daily, and my 15-17 hour drive to family could use gas when needed.
I mean, yeah. Small electric cars, more trains, more public transport.
More and better public transport, cycling, and walkable cities would be great. But we can't have nice things because car and gas companies might make less profits.
We can't have nice things because the zoning code is wrong. The fundamental problem is that low-density zoning and minimum parking requirements physically force destinations further apart, resulting in fewer possible destinations within walking distance or biking distance and making transit uneconomical due to fewer riders per unit length of transit line. Simultaneously, it also makes walking and cycling deeply unpleasant because even if the sidewalk or bike path exists, you end up sandwiched in a no-man's land between a stroad and a succession of huge parking lots.
I mean, it's a big comfort thing too. I have zero interest in walking or using public transport in negative temps or 80+ degree weather. I enjoy not struggling to survive a trip.
There is actually a bigger city that spent in the ball park of 500k putting in a miles of a walking/bike path, less then 10 people showed up for it's "grand opening" and it's so unused there isn't even trash or homeless camps. It was dubbed a waste of money.
I drive a 2015 Chevy Spark, the gas version. The ev version was discontinued in 2016, the gas version was discontinued in 2022. The Chevy Sonic, a similar, but slightly larger model was discontinued in 2020. The Chevy Bolt, an ev and larger, but still compact model and a successor to the Spark and Sonic was discontinued this year. It's become apparent that most Americans do not like small cars. I don't think much can be done to make small cars likable here, I'd love to be able to drive a car like the Honda E, but there's no market for it here.
GM has a long history of only half-heartedly offering small EVs.
I love my 2017 Spark. I didn't know they had an EV version.
Honda also pulled the fit. Such a fantastic car no other ones in the US segment came close.
Same in Europe, small cars either get discontinued or transformed into a SUV...
I love my Chevy Sonic. I hate it when I get surrounded by lifted pickups especially in a parking lot.
That's going to be a hard job. Cue the ones willing to die for their god given right to drive a car the size of a van to the shops they can see from their front door.
The author notes that he would like to see more people take public transportation, and I’m all for that. There’s one problem for me: In Michigan where I live there is no public transportation that really gets you around Detroit, or gets you from the suburbs to Detroit. There is the joke of a QLine that goes no where and the People Mover that also doesn’t do much, but other than that nothing. Convincing people that have private transportation (read: cars) that they should invest/have their taxes used for public transportation is a no-go. Convincing the rich that they should pay more than $0 a year in taxes is even harder. This is probably the case a in several states around the country, but definitely in Michigan (and believe me, we tried with a bus system). So while I get that smaller cars can be and maybe should be thing, I think public transportation, as the author points out, could also be a thing. However, trying to get anyone, especially millionaires and billionaires, to pay a cent more than they are forced to is like pulling teeth.
Fellow Michigander here. I’m located towards Flint in Mount Morris and I can agree that public transportation is a joke. Where I live it isn’t as feasible either, as there is more rural homes.
Which is why they should be forced to pay more
Small, pink cars?
I like it. Reminds me of a movie or something.
Americans will embrace small cars when we don't need to drive 1+hours every single day.
You dont need a large car for that...
You just need a comfortable car for that.
For some people, bigger is more comfortable. Different strokes for different folks. Others don't want to deal with playing Tetris with baggage and family every time they need to go on a trip. For others, it's a safety issue or at least they feel safer in a bigger car.
But yes. I generally agree with you.
I drive a, for American standards, small Peugeot 308. It’s the 2018 model. Does about 45-50 MPG (the diesel does even better) and has all the luxuries I can imagine. I drive the station which means I have plenty of space for everything I could need. I drive it for 2,5-3 hours a day. It drives like a dream. You don’t need a massive SUV for that.
I drive a Crosstrek and have a small truck. I'm about as small as it gets before going to clown cars. I don't why everyone here thinks they are going to persuade me how wrong I am....I was making a statement that's isn't wrong. You want people to move to smaller vehicles, build better infrastructure.
That doesn't make any sense. What does duration of transit have to do woth how large your vehicle is? The article didn't say clown cars.
I'm 6'2" (188cm) and I drive a tiny little '05 Mazda 3s, for 1.5 hours each way to work/home. It's not an issue at all. If anything, I'm honestly LESS comfortable in larger vehicles.
Would I like to drive less? Definitely. Working from home during Corona was fantastic and I was so much more productive.
How are you less comfortable in a large vehicle? I'm the same height and driving a Corolla my head would hit the roof sometimes. Getting in and out of a Civic felt like I was human origami. I got a Forester and it is so much more comfortable. My partially disabled dad loved being able to just slide into the seat and swing his legs in without having to drop down and struggle to get his legs folded in or out.
You have kids? Pets? Long work commute? A small car makes having to balance any of these (especially together) difficult. Sprawling suburbia makes commutes and driving anywhere suck, you want Americans to get smaller cars? Build better city infrastructure so that I don't need to use the car 98% of the time I need to leave the house. If I don't need to use it as much I can deal with less comfort and a smaller car.
Make sense now?
I commuted 2 1/2 hours a day, mostly highway driving. In a Yaris, with a passenger. For 8 years. I was driving, not stretching out to take a nap.
TBH, I would have preferred a car that was quieter and had a bit more comfortable ride. But a Corolla, Civic, Mazda 3 or Elantra would have been just fine.
Just sold my Model 3 for a long time want, Fiat 500 Abarth. Couldn’t be happier.
I wonder how many people are doing something like this. My plan is to sell my model 3 as well and get a cheap 5speed hatchback, whatever seems most fun when the time comes.
If you don't mind me asking, what made you want to switch to gas and what do you like about the fiat 500? I've never been in one!
Everyone along the way asked the same thing. Everyone thinks I’m crazy going EV to gas or they try to make it political. I loved my Model 3, one of the best cars I’ve had. EV & Gas had nothing to do with my decision at all.
I personally am a big fan of hatchbacks, and I especially prefer smaller cars. Coming from an 01 CLK, the Model 3 always felt a bit big to me. It’s really nice to be back in a smaller car.
I love the Fiat for its size and it’s look. It’s a little guy with a lot of personality. The Abarth especially. Some may not like how loud it is, but it really sounds like a big sports car, and that’s with factory exhaust. There’s a lot of aftermarket support so you can really make it your own as well.
Mine is a five speed manual. And after just shy of four years with one pedal driving, it’s been a huge adjustment. It’s my first manual car, but I like the challenge and have been working super hard at learning all the tricks with it.
I went the opposite route and instead of selling my 3 I bought a Y as well. Despite elon and all the negative press, it's hard to beat an electric car.
The only trouble is that the super charger network pretty much makes the choice of EV for you if you don't want any gas cars in the garage.
How about one of these bad boys?
https://www.motor1.com/news/680166/third-generation-honda-n-box-debut/
They're actually pretty roomy inside. Not aerodynamic, and I wouldn't want to be driving over 55 in one, but they're pretty neat.
They are also shit in safety.
Won't happen. That country is obsessed with being seen wearing its big boy pants, to the detriment of everything. Their entire culture is built around the myth of American exceptionalism and it inhibits any potential for learning or even just rational decision making. It is in their DNA to be offensively stupid and contrarian at every opportunity.
Let me buy a kei truck. Let me revel in its smallness.
I really really wanna get a Honda Acty van. The trucks are cool, but that little van (or really any Kei van) is just the best thing to me. Pretty rare in the US though, so finding one nearby is a challenge!
Same (and it is a thing where I'm at, it just needs to be used+imported). But also I don't really want to drive, and I do not afford such a thing (both in terms of need and money).
I did buy a small+cheap+geared ebike (45 pounds, 20" wheels) and it's pretty great. Would be nice to be lighter, but that's a cost thing. Somewhat smaller perhaps too (not that I've tried it), though that would probably require a custom design or perhaps an normal bike (I am not sure how a niche smaller bike would compare to what I have now in terms of riding effort/experience and cost especially without a good-deal local used or clones on sale).
Though bicycling also has its limits/caveats where I'm at (also for me personally, so I don't have a standard commute) but the specific utility (especially due to a nearby trail) that is there in different forms makes it worth it (health being a big one, 1-way trips, I even fetched water 12L at a time when the pump was out).
We had compact cars in the 70s and 80s then massive SUVs and now massive pickups became the norm. Pickups have not only become louder but they don't even fit in parking spaces completely anymore.
We also had compact cars in all the other years after that. I've been driving them the whole time
Same with EV's, this stuff will save the car industry but not the planet.
We need to figure out how to rebuild our infrastructure and our ways of thinking such that we don't need individual hunks of carbon toting us around.It's the 70s all over again.
Yep. All it will take is one oil shock and we'll have GM and Ford scrambling to build small cars, fail miserably, get bailed out, and then start building giant cars again.
My husbands 2009 Corolla finally needed replacing (couldn't pass inspection due to rusted frame) and he had the WORST time finding a car anywhere at the nearby dealerships. Everything was trucks and SUVs, finally he found one that had 3 cars and 1 mostly fit the price/criteria he wanted.
We're in the rural north east and the number of big ass trucks is insane, it's getting harder and harder to park between them all and I hate trying to get out of parking spaces when I can't see for shit around them.
from the thumbnail, thought it was the Simpsons car haha
I looked at the Ford Canada page - the smallest vehicle in the line up was the Mustang, most were trucks or should big SUVs. Then I looked at the Ford Switzerland page - lots of reasonable cars of all sizes, basically zero trucks.
They make them, they just don't sell them here. It's bullshit.
It's annoying that the home country of Ford doesn't get a lot of their best vehicles. I want a new Focus ST estate, and an Australian ute.
It's the same with a lot of the other manufacturers. You can buy a Toyota Yaris in Mexico, but not in the US.
My 2005 Scion xB is still going strong. Love that car. It’s not just short but also narrow so I can easily fit in compact parking spaces that many others can’t. Yet it feels huge on the inside. Great car.
I can’t fit 3 kids with car seats in a small car. I drive anything that is affordable
I have 4 kids, vans or suvs are my only option. I got my explorer new for 24k. It was the cheapest vehicle with 3 rows and room for luggage in the back. I miss driving a car, but for the next decade I need a kid hauler.
The main reason is manufacturers make more money off of larger cars. The cost of making cars doesn't vary that much, but larger cars can be sold for much more, so the profit margin is greater. That, and costs for parts tend to be greater, also.
I love my lil 2002 subie hatchback.
Hatchbacks are the shiznat.
Ford F150/Chevy 1500 and bigger just keep getting bigger every style change. I call them pavement tanks.
I'm all for smaller more efficient cars, easier to drive too
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Heavier vehicles also wear out roads faster, though the difference between a small sedan and a large electric SUV amounts to very little when compared to the effect of a garbage truck rolling by each morning.
Just this week, Automotive News reported that the Mitsubishi Mirage is on the way out, joining the choir invisible alongside cars like the Chevrolet Sonic, Honda Fit, and Toyota Yaris, all of which were once sold in the US.
The Bolt's biggest problem, from a bean counter's point of view at least, was a battery that cost a lot more per kWh than one made with General Motors' new Ultium cells.
News of the Bolt's cancellation was met with much dismay, and GM recently decided to bring the nameplate back at some unspecified time on a new Ultium-based platform.
But GM CEO Mary Barra has also warned that even with the lower cost of Ultium cells, the company won't make any profit on sub-$40,000 EVs until late in the decade.
In addition to the ever-escalating safety arms race that entices American car buyers, a misplaced obsession with having as much range as possible also factors in here.
The original article contains 493 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 61%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I'd be happy enough with a Smart Fortwo style vehicle. I'd be more than happy with good public transportation and non-car dominated urban planning. I'd be over the moon for high speed rail lines covering the country.
A Toyota Pixis Mega/Honda N Van as a daily and a toy on the side, that's ideal for me and maybe it should be for Americans too. But I'm biased because I love driving
I would love to have smaller cars, but my average size Civic can’t see around the driving billboards that all the people are driving these days, increasing the danger and risk to myself and passenger(s).
Miata is always the answer!
or idk.... make real city?
I like my Smart EV. From the outside, it is as long as most cars are wide, can U-turn as right as a Tesla Cyber truck, if not tighter, and can get me from A-B daily, charging overnight off a regular household outlet.
I like this. Someone making his own informed decisions and reaping the benefits of it!
Drive a Nissan ev myself and it has been economic (0 repair cost, just normal upkeep), fun to drive and is silent!
As someone that just traded in my Sierra 1500 for a Sienna Minivan, I don't understand why minivans get so much hate. My van is an excellent people mover, can carry a lot of shit, and gets 36MPG. The Tahoe I was looking at doesn't hold a candle to my van, and uses a lot of expensive gas to boot.
Towing. The tahoe could tow way more than the van. They have different purposes.
Vans are awesome!! So are trucks, de0ends on your needs
I usually ride my bike, but my daily driver was a Honda Fit before I started getting back into cycling and ebikes. Good little car, I kinda miss it.
That's me right now. I walk/bike when I have to go in to work, and have a Fit for when I need a vehicle otherwise. I wish I could go smaller, but I don't want to buy a new car until I need to.
There still exist cars in 2023. It's not just SUV's available on the lot.
People just want them, because of grocery trips or a kid in school sports or whatever.
Whether most of them actually need that SUV space is something up for debate, but it's gonna be hard to convince the average American (already in love with full SUV's) to just switch away.
Bring back the hatchbacks. People want the utility of a CUV/SUV. Not the mileage or sheer size. It's purely the screwed up CAFE standards pushing everything to get bigger. If we actually just taxed by the pound then vehicles would suddenly go back to normal size with normal approaches to cargo storage.
I've driven smaller hatchbacks pretty much my.entire life, and agree completely. I have no issue hauling 4-5 adults + whatever stuff they happen to have in the trunk. Fully agree, hatchbacks are the way to go.
There still exist cars in 2023. It’s not just SUV’s available on the lot.
You haven't looked at a Ford dealer lately, have you? They literally don't make cars anymore, except for the Mustang (and even then they'd probably rather sell you a "Mustang Mach-E," which is an SUV).
Industry analysts are praising Ford's decision and other automakers are following in its footsteps.
I don’t need the space but I’m beginning to think I need an suv due to the ridiculous visibility problems they cause and constantly being blinded at night.
I live in Appalachia and I have kids. I definitely love having my small SUVs because it’s almost impossible to get anywhere here in a sedan during the winter.
I have been stuck on the side of a mountain a few times in cars. I haven’t been stuck once when I’m out in something capable of off-roading.
I can’t imagine needing one living somewhere flat though.
Nah I lived in a mountain town with a Mazda 3 for ten years. Either you have some serious off roading going on and need an actual off roading vehicle or you just never learned to properly drive in the snow. In ten years I can count on my hand the number of times I didn't make it up a grade. And that was because of ice, which an SUV wouldn't help. Furthermore there are several off road capable cars available. SUVs are not off road vehicles by nature.
Great, but they don't sell them here.
And no ones gonna go get a fiat or smart
They will when forced too. Like europe and the tax on their petrol/diesel.
I've love a big stinking 5L v8 but fuel is so expensive.
Work harder, play harder. Isn't that the American way?
Meanwhile the cars for sale in the US, driven partially by EV range anxiety, are getting bigger on average.
I'm doing my part.
Been driving a Honda civic for years.
I love me some power wheels; I'm just too damn big for 'em. 😩
But maybe the one on this photo.
They are only bad for business if gasoline is unreasonably cheap
If the government stops subsidizing the oil industry with free taxes, EVs will become a much more appealing option.
Fuck it, it's Wuling Hongguang Mini EV posting hours
Never saw this before but I doubt you would fit 4 dutch in that
Oh yeah it'd be a tight squeeze and I'm pretty sure that configuration gets rid of the trunk space. Cute city car though!
Efficient is sexy
Sorry but that looks like a suppository.
Before addressing the American people, speak to the NHTSA that regulates safety in vehicles. The car shown doesn’t have side airbags.
The hell are you on about. This car is ancient.
It’s an article reference photo of a small car. A small car that cannot be sold in US, if new. That’s what I’m on about.
Only way we’re getting a car that small is a 2-seater.
Caption:
Americans bought Renault 5s in the past, can we dare dream they might buy Renault 5 EVs in the future?
Does the modern Renault 5 EV also lack airbags?
I'd entertain this much more if getting in a car crash with a bigger vehicle didn't mean death. My dad used to work in the ER and also commute in the snow. It's not that bigger equals safer but sometimes slightly larger means not getting demolished.
What does this have to do with technology versus posting this in one of the car communities?
This is the played-out automotive circlejerk on the internet.... everyone acts like they would run out and buy X car if a car maker released it. Then a single car maker actually does, and no one buys it. And it is always because of one (usually lame) reason after another. People don't want to put their money where their mouth is and yet they still think car makers will listen.
I'm here to embrace physics. Small Car + Big Truck = Death.
Edit: I don't understand why this is getting downvoted. Americans aren't going to give up their gas guzzler for a smaller vehicle (although I agree that they should at least not have a gas guzzler), and even if they did, not everyone would. Sure, you'll probably have points in the replies (once I get some), but I'm going off of an IIHS perspective. If a small vehicle gets into an accident (assuming it's head on/moderate/overlap) with another vehicle (as most American vehicles are either SUVs or Trucks [yes, I know an SUV is technically a truck, but that's not the point]), that person in the smaller vehicle will most likely be dead or seriously injured in that crash. It doesn't have to be particularly fast for a weight problem to show a big impact.
The reason is because you assume the common stereotype of every American being the same.
there's so many of us so widely spread out. it is laughable when people say "Americans" and assume every single American is the same person.
there is a lot of tiresome "Americans this, Americans that." and most of us are looking around going "... who?"
How would you phrase it then? I don't think every American is the same. I'm just going off the cars I see on the road. Most of them are either Trucks or SUVs.
I completely agree with what you're saying. Physics is definitely in favor of the larger mass during a collision. But if you need to get a big car, just because everyone else has a big car, that seems like a race no one wins (except auto manufacturers).
Aside from your downvote whining, you're exactly the problem being discussed. Like some sort of driving arms race to the bottom.
You also understand that size is not equal to weight, right?
While you have a point. The bigger cars are usually much heavier than the smaller cars. I'm not saying that I agree with SUVs and Trucks becoming the norm, but there's not much you can change from that at this point in time.
The time was in the 60’s. Now it really doesnt matter. We fucked up already and its too late
I'm 6'4", fuck your small cars, lol.
Small cars today are huge. I am also 6'4'' and drive a Mk7 Golf. There is more than enough room to get comfortable. Much bigger than my Mk4 from 15 years ago.
I drove a Toyota Matrix for a decade, sure I technically fit, but I spent a LOT of time in it going to sites all over, and any long stretches of time became quite uncomfortable.
Have you ever driven a full size truck like an F-150 or Ram for long distances? It's a whole other experience on your knees and ankles.
I'll continue to pay extra for a large truck. Handling, strength, towing, hauling. I'm positive I'll get mostly downvotes but it doesn't make a difference, I'll still be driving my truck dozens of miles commuting every day! 9-12 MPG, pure diesel baby!
- Handling & Enjoyment: I enjoy having something bigger, it handles great.
- Strength: It's not gonna total out going thru a fence or hitting a deer. (Confirmed)
- Towing, Hauling/Payload: No rentals needed. Summer time fun with the boat, coolers, off roading, camping and so forth. Helpful to friends, saves them a buck. Great for work too. Oh and saving all the smaller cars who got stuck in the winter time, literally saving lives.
I'm with Americans on this one, they are too morbidly obese to fit in regular cars. Leave the fatfucks alone.
Americans don't want small cars, and honestly, I don't think its a problem.
They are tricked into wanting big vehicles.
Super insightful thoughts from exactly the problem with the US.
No
Why not?
The big truck is important to compensate for the small penis.
A small car means several trips to do normal things instead of just one. How is that beneficial exactly?
What "normal things" are you doing that need a huge car?
He needs to know he can move an entire house worth of belongings once a decade without having to rent a U-Haul like a pussy.
Daily too. They're either a contractor or lying
Either your definition of small car is extra tiny or your definition of normal things is exaggerated.
Jobs need trucks. Daily driving doesn't.
I remember a guy called into Car Talk asking about what he should buy. After describing his needs they recommended a smaller or midsize car. The guy said "But what about when I need to haul stuff?" They asked him how often he actually did that and he said about 2-3 times a year. They said to save himself thousands of dollars and get the smaller vehicle and rent a truck for a fraction of the cost for the few times he needed to haul stuff.
Dude, I drive a Miata, and a 1st gen rx7. I can think of maybe 2 times I’ve needed to drive my husbands car (which is a veloster, so not terribly large either) in the 8 or so years of Miata ownership. At least one of those times was because I didn’t want to drive the RX7 from San Diego to Los Angeles with no air conditioning, no power steering, and a relatively heavy clutch, in the middle of summer, in rush hour traffic. Not because what I was picking up wouldn’t fit in the rx7.
What exactly do you need to do multiple trips for?
No way it can fit groceries lol.
This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've heard about small cars lol