United Healthcare CEO gets murdered, many celebrate, lemmy.world mod(s?) pile on the temp bans and delete posts
United Healthcare CEO gets murdered, many celebrate, lemmy.world mod(s?) pile on the temp bans and delete posts
I said something along the lines of:
"Wow, I haven't had a reason to smile ear to ear in a while."
Along with
"Nah, the more dead corpos dragons, the better."
In response to some liberal going off about how violence is never the solution, not mentioning how this murdered dipshit has personally overseen a system that perpetuates harm, suffering and death (violence) in the name of profit.
...
Good ole' civility clause.
Whats the paradox of tolerance?
.world mods have never heard of it I guess.
I'm just here to point out that everyone's going to use the downvote button as a "disagree" button and the upvote as "agree," and there's nothing anyone can do to stop us. You can't hold back the tide.
Yes.
As an anarchist, I am keenly aware that rules are merely suggestions, and are utterly meaningless when no system exists to actually enforce them.
The whole thing is all just made up. There are no "rules" written down like there are for software systems. There are just shared habits and models of the world, and traditions for how to react. In general, people agree and keep it all consistent enough from day to day that the rules in their heads translate into behavior and dependable systems in the real world. But it's all just made up. It's just people deciding what to do, every minute, in every society, based on what they decide in their brain, no matter how strict the "rules" that supposedly exist are.
I saw that old tired "It's not a disagree button! Only downvote comments that don't add to the discussion!" thing time and time again on reddit, but I've never seen it here. I hoped that it was accepted and understood that they are indeed agree/disagree buttons.
dios mío, A LIBERAL!
I think they should make a post addressing this but it is pretty funny to see people's reactions
PTB, comments celebrating a person who's horrible are not encouraging violence. This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.
I think this comment snippet speaks for itself honestly.
yay, yet another venue for cultists to push their garbage on the unwilling.
So many things wrong with that statement, including the falsehood that only God can judge. We do have courts, including the court of public opinion.
Well, I’m as much god as whatever they’re worshipping, so I guess I’ll do the judging.
This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
"for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us."
The dastardly, scurilous, vile agenda that human life is sacred. Well done Sherlock, you uncovered the next Hitler.
Human life is sacred. All the people who died because of denied insurance claims and corporate greed deserve their killer (corporate insurance CEOs) brought to justice. Unfortunately, this is the only way too accomplish that goal.
Human life isn't sacred. The prick who got murdered cared less about human life and has more blood on his hands than anyone celebrating his demise. People have been fighting insurance companies by legal means for years and things have only gotten worse. Violence may be the only way to get change. They already reversed that awful anesthesia policy that was announced the other day.
Literally nobody believes that human life is sacred. They may want to believe that they believe it, but one only need look at the world to see that they contradict the claim with action every day.
What people beieve is that they're better than others, and "life is sacred" is just a tool in the toolbox of looking down upon others.
If they or even you really believed human life was sacred you'd see the piece of shit who died for the piece of shit he is as he and his company was responsible for the deaths of so many many innocent people. Instead of trying to hide behind worthless religious doctrine and saying it's wrong to be happy that this evil person died because "all life is sacred" this is like saying "All lives matter" as a reactionary response to BLM, it makes you and that other commenter sound like one of those alt-right religious types, in the same way saying "all lives matter" in response to BLM makes you sound like a racist pig.
You may think what you are saying is good and may be confused as to why people are angry at you. The fact is that the context of the situation can make something that seems and indeed is considered good in a vacuum can make it look and sound extremely bad and make the person saying it just as bad.
Hitler referenace check... Now do the Jews and the camps, dear 🤡
looks like most of the mod actions you are looking at were done by little_cow (do not tag or harass) who has actually been fairly decent and understanding in my interactions with them.
very likely these actions are being done by threat of the .world admins, who cannot be replaced or swayed as it’s their property (servers) that host the content. not getting in on either side of this because honestly idgaf but if any of this upsets you:
vote with your activity and registration and stop using lemmy.world. i was here before they essentially made lemmy a centralized platform and trust me it was way cooler back then, it could be that way again.
vote with your activity and registration and stop using lemmy.world
Additionally, people who moderate communities there might consider to either create or join alternatives elsewhere. Because, seriously, this shit is .ml/Reddit tier.
I can't really discuss the actual topic here intelligibly bc I always block [email protected] as one of if not the very first action for every new account I make anywhere across the Fediverse (I simply prefer the alternatives like [email protected] and [email protected]), nor have I looked into the modlog as you have. But may I make a tangential observation, if it's not too annoying for it to be off-topic like this?
Have you seen the actual - albeit dog whistled - calls for violence, naming actual names and showing actual faces? I just saw one in Shitpost (https://lemmy.world/post/22802422), another in Memes, and there are additional cross-posts as well. Similar content or others that likewise extoll the virtues of violence include Comic Strips (https://mander.xyz/post/21552536) showing up in communities all across Lemmy, like here's one that's not the post itself but rather the comment section in Not The Onion (https://midwest.social/post/20083880).
I thought that such calls for violence - as Admiral Patrick calls it somewhere here in the comments of this post, a "lynch mob mentality" - would die down quickly after the election, but it seems quite the opposite instead. So it's a very emotionally charged issue right now. And I even get it, though aside from rightness or wrongness, people each have their preferences as to what they can stomach, and e.g. someone with lived experience through such (like a school shooting event) may not be able to handle all of this.
Anyway I'm glad that you are sharing alternatives, bc no matter what, we need to not be dependent upon a single instance. But I do see where - again, setting aside right vs. wrong - there's a real split across Lemmy right now about how such matters "should" be handled. At which point I agree with you in spirit that there NEEDS to be transparency in the moderation practices (even if, as others have suggested elsewhere here, this particular situation seems to be the result of a single moderator who may have acted overzealously to protect people from the rhetoric). Perhaps you can write a post to the mods or even admins of that instance asking for such, though it would probably be better to wait a week for this all to die down - perhaps the mod in question will apologize, or even be removed, though what you may want instead (but don't let me put words into your mouth) is a clarification to be made to the wording of the community or instance rules. We really can affect the changes that we'd like to see, much of the time. And if/when not, then at least you know that you did your absolute best to try:-).
Edit: even a few hours later, the process has already begun, see e.g. the apology from the mod at https://lemmy.world/comment/13815531.
I don't even disagree with any of the mod actions here, and I fully agree with this.
I abandoned lemmy.world communities except for a handful of things, mostly the PugJesus communities and [email protected] which for some reason is fine. Everything else, I found replacements for that seem like they're way superior.
So much better.
big facts, especially for the worldnews community. for some reason my instance doesn’t see this quokk instance but i have to imagine that any mod team is better than the ineffectual nepotism heap of wilty lettuce that is [email protected]’s
I'm not at all surprised by the negative talk, but removing the thread is a terrible look.
The news is still relevant, current, developing, and of interest to many people, including me.
Let people be jerks. If I recall, the first comment to be removed was about guillotines. Bad taste, yes, but c'mon.
Nobody removed the thread. There was one repost removal, but other than that, all I see in the modlog is comment removals and bans. The relevant, current, developing, and of interest story is not exactly a secret as of right now.
A thread I was following in [email protected] is deleted. I had it saved and was referring back to it and other searches in hopes of updates as it's very relevant to me personally.
Not a huge deal of course, but I know at least one conversation was nuked, even if this post doesn't refer to that incident.
A 24 hour temp ban for celebrating violence is actually pretty reserved. Certainly not power tripping.
Counterargument: no.
E: To elaborate, the terms of service say:
"**We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature.**"
Merely expressing glee is not calling for violence or threatening a living creature. Banning someone for a rule they didn't break, for any duration, is overreach.
Denying millions of legitimate claims that directly leads to many people being physically harmed or dying is violence on a large scale. So is lobying the government to keep healthcare in shambles for hundreds of millions of people.
It's a less visible, less gorey form of violence than a gun, but violence that begets mass suffering and death nonetheless.
24 hours for chearing someone who is responsable for the death of thousands, is not refusing someone life saving medical care not violence? Is this not the paradox of tolarance you folks always harp on about?
🤡
Sorry for the double reply. I'll create a list of alternatives to .world communities here; I'll also add the ones you guys suggest, as long as not from .ml (as .ml and .world are apparently peas from the same pod.)
technology: [email protected]
politics: [email protected] (UK), [email protected] (USA), [email protected] (Canada), [email protected] (Oz), [email protected] (allegedly world, in practice USA)
news: [email protected] , [email protected]
comic strips: I couldn't find any general comm, but there's [email protected] and [email protected]
microblog memes: [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected]
political memes: [email protected] , [email protected]
memes: [email protected]
ask lemmy: [email protected]
movies and animattion: [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] . Specifically for Japanese anime there's ani.social (the whole instance).
EDIT: apparently the moderators apologised, including in this thread. So what I said that both are peas from the same pod might be inaccurate - it's a matter of scale.
.
It's funny that, when I created a list of .ml alternatives, some entitled prick was lying/assuming/bullshitting that I was trying to kill LW - since I didn't list any LW comm. If the prick said the same now it would be true. [Still blocked because I got no time for assumers.]
I find it very good that this community is becoming the de-facto central point to ensure mods are kept in check and that such comments can be made and found.
Thank you - I'll add those to the list!
They are not peas from the same pod though: Lemmy.world mods have already apologized, made some changes to the rules to clarify their points (apparently? I haven't tracked them down yet), and resolved to do better.
Among other places, here: https://lemmy.world/comment/13815531.
In contrast, Lemmy.ml admins have only ever doubled down on their decisions, afaict.
They overlap ever so slightly, yet are worlds apart, imho. Still, it's so good to have options bc if someone doesn't want to be in a particular community, it's great to have the option to jump and be elsewhere. That said, I appreciate many things that Lemmy.World offers to us: especially [email protected] for funsies, but moreover entirely free access to the best parts of the Fediverse, as well as volunteer, unpaid devotion to moderate communities hosted there. Beggers cannot be choosers, but also, these mods are not billionaires - they are regular people just trying to improve things in their corner of the world, as best as they see fit. Which if we don't like, we'll need to step up and help out ourselves to aid and create new communities to replace those on that instance. That's my 2¢ anyway:-D.
I'll edit the comment addressing it, since not doubling down is a thumbs up in my book.
So are you saying that in those communities celebrating murder is encouraged or what?
I'm saying that those communities are not in an instance where the admins enforce hidden rules, unlike .world and .ml. At least, not as far as I know.
Is this clear now?
For [email protected], you’re free to celebrate good news such as a CEO getting an early retirement package.
But say like if you celebrated an activist or leftist dying etc, it would be frowned upon and assessed on a case-by-case basis.
I want to say that this is a case where it's not clearly either a PTB or a YDI situation. The mods seem to be enforcing their comm/instance rules, albeit their rules in this instance seem over the top.
I wonder what kind of acronym would fit this description. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.
TBD - Tyranny By Design
I'd say PTB but I guess TBD will do.
Who does it benefit to have instance rules like this? On LW you are not allowed to promote or celebrate any form of violence, so no matter how oppresive the state is, and no matter who the object of violence is (rapist, murderer, genocider, Nazi). The LW view seems to be that it would be uncivil to resist your own systematic exploitation and oppression in this way, and that it is always wrong to promote violence, even agaist literal Nazis. I've noticed most of the liberal instances have a similar policy. With a soft liberal underbelly like that, I dread to think what sort of milquetoast resistance to fascism the US population will be able to muster over the next few years.
Hah, catchy!
Heh, I got a good chuckle at that comment removal. So glad I moved from there to db0.
I'm torn between 🐰 and 🐇, but that's clearly a case of PTB.
All those comments boil down to "yay, he died!". This is not a call for violence dammit - the violence already happened, and it was done by an unrelated party. It is not a threat either, unless you expect the person to be resurrected and killed again.
If you don't want to see people to cheer for the death of shitty people, then create a rule for that dammit. Be transparent. LW is following the steps of
.mland Reddit to enforce rules in an obnoxiously opaque way, and calling its users a bunch of gullible trash - "I'm going to ban you and claim that it was for something you didn't, and the other morons/users/trash won't even notice it! lol lmao".
Whats the paradox of tolerance? // .world mods have never heard of it I guess.
It's worse than that. Someone who's too gullible to follow the conclusion Popper reached there would simply watch it and do nothing. They [likely the admins; I'm not sure on who, let us not witch hunt] are actually defending the intolerant.
It's celebrating death and murder. Which is reprehensible. If you need a rule that says "be a good person" then there is something very wrong.
It’s celebrating death and murder.
The admin team did not claim "it's celebrating death and murder", but specifically that it violates the terms of service. Go read the ToS - it does not.
And, if you're OK with admins that list one rule, then lie that the user violated it to enforce another, hidden, rule... then you're probably better off in Reddit.
If you need a rule that says “be a good person”
If there was such a subjective rule, and the grounds for a "good person" were anyhow sane and humane, the ones getting banned would be the ones wishing the continued existence and ability of someone like that CEO, to decide "Those poor 'people' can pay enough to satisfy my greed. I'd say to let those things die."
But a good person is not the one who wants the poor to live, right? Or apparently that's what you consider it to be.
Which is reprehensible
You cry when you learned Hitler died or are you just upset because this guy's still warm?
This asshole had far more blood on his hands than the guy who shot him. That fact doesn't change just because he was hiding behind a ton of bureaucracy to kill. His death is objectively a good thing for the world. Now the rest of these dickheads have something to think about whenever they're considering new policies that will deny people healthcare.
Good Lord most of those don't even come close to being against the rules of that community.
No, but they hit close to the personal opinion of someone who enforces the rules :/
That's always what it seems to be.
TOS you say?
Can't comment on bans/deservedness. Lemmy is infested with mods/agents/bots that are pro empire/CIA/military paid protectors of disinformation and said empire.
Not even a conspiracy. They spend billions every year trying to control the conversations online. The executives for many social media companies are former Mossad or CIA. Reddit admins used to have a post up acknowledging the astroturf farm at Eglin Air Force base as their highest traffic source.
I don’t think a tankie has any right to complain about propaganda online.
Paradox of tolerance? Are insurance companies on lemmy defending letting people die?
United Health has the highest claim denial rate in the US and denies over 30% of claims by people trying to be healthy.
They don't have to go on lemmy to defend, they just do it and they have let thousands of people die.
The bans seem to be lifted.
yes i only banned for 24 hours so that more information could be found additionally there were directions that people encouraging, cheering, making joke of, discussing payment, or of jury nullification are against the terms of service for lemmy.world. as of now there is new information regarding this section of the terms of service which will be announced and explained by the admins. i am sorry to those that feel i was excessive we have discuss this among the moderators and will use the lock power to reduce the moderator workflow. for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us. i recognize my bias in this and will work to be more restrained going forward.
only God may judge us
I'm judging you right now, for your inability to keep your religion to yourself.
for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.
Lmao I don't know which god you're referring to, but pretty sure based on the lore available they don't give a fuck about human life
How does it feel sucking corporate, and status quo, cock for free?
BTW: יהוה, aka YHYW, aka Yahweh's original name is EL. He's a Canaanite god of War and Death. I'm pretty sure that this follower of Iehova, same god different name, would be pardoned by his "God."
Edit: in case you missed it, the letter "I" was the Latin language character for "J" until the 4th or 5th century.
I will be finding a new instance that actually encourages discussion, going forward since this instance is run by censors that do not like free speech
Edit 2: in case you also missed it another group changed EL's name to Allah, and a further group than that one declared that ELhovallah has said that science is more real than any "divine doctrine."
Fuck you, and fuck my god. He created entire communities that I probably should be chastising because most American Baha'i's are the "moderate white people" that MLK Jr. talked about so eloquently. They will say all the right things, but I have seen too often that they are merely talking. The saddest part is that because most of these people aren't white people, so when they get off their asses and do something, it's generally successful.
What mistakes? Those were all intentional outcomes.
I was with you until you mentioned that god thing.
You're spineless
only God may judge us
And you, apparently.
only God may judge us
Maybe stop using ancient, inconsistent collections of fairy tales and psuedo history to inform your world view.
Grow up lol.
Nah I judge you hard, you’re a garbage excuse for a human.
I don't know if temporarily muting those accounts was the right call or not - I did not even look at the pictures of the modlog here much less elsewhere - but entirely separately from that I wanted to say thank you for offering your explanation here. Whatever you end up deciding, your willingness to be introspective is already a powerful thing.
"Erm, tos 🤓👆"
Me holding the TOS in my hands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XEwA8A5SE0
Bans on any Lemmy instance are stupid because nobody gives a fuck about this place. This is just 4Chan for milquetoast nerds
"4chan for milquetoast nerds" is so true that it hurts.
I do think that we should give a fuck about Lemmy instance bans though. Social media shapes the views of people; and those bans dictate who can say it and what can be said, so they'll shape those views in a specific way.
USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST.world mods are just fuxking neo lib bootlickers.
Dead CEO Bad, mmmkay guys 🤡
It is over moderated AF, mod log speaks for itself.
Too Many mods, not enough shit posters jfc
I feel both attacked and delighted by this lmao
I’m honestly shocked my own comment didn’t get deleted. When I saw how many were being nuked, I had to chime in. I guess they missed it in the chaos.
I looked at the logs myself, and it absolutely was power tripping. Jury nullification discussion isn't even illegal for fucks sake.
You can appreciate something without celebrating it.
I appreciate the work of these strangers.
The policy is happening at the lemmy.world level, not the individual mod level.
It's right there in the Terms of Service (which nobody actually ever reads):
https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
"1. Attacks on users or groups
Before using the website, remember you will be interacting with actual, real people and communities. Lemmy.World is not a place for you to attack other people or groups of people. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't give you the right to harass them. Discuss ideas and be critical of principles. Show the respect you desire to receive.
We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature."
We faced the same problem in the Politics community when Henry Kissinger died.
We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature.
So lemmy.world forbids discussion about hunting?
About fishing?
About organized industrial agriculture?
About austerity measures?
About prison systems?
About police?
...
I'll give you that my comment about hoping more corpos die actually breaks those rules, but uh, I'm using lemmy on mobile, through an app.
It would be helpful to list this rule in the instance sidebar that mobile users can actually see.
...
But anyway, this says nothing about celebrating or joking about a violence that has already happened.
Celebration and jokes, on their own, are not threats nor calls for violence.
If you wanna say that you're not allowed to celebrate or joke about violence that happened to a person or thing, without threatening or calling for further violence (like my smiling comment, and many other recently deleted for tos comments) it would probably be a good idea to actually have a rule for that.
... Also, can you harass or perpetuate violence against a dead person?
... Is it considered violence if you mock a dead person? Harassment?
Yeah, that’s some lib shit if I’ve ever seen it. There’s no reason to write the rules so narrowly, but if you do and you coincidentally only enforce it against people threatening power, you deserve the vegan police in your reports constantly.
But I’m not calling for violence. It already happened. And it’s not against something living, at least not anymore.
A fox attacks a hen house.
Reporters: The foxes have been eating the hens for decades. Here's why that's good for the hens.
...
The hens fight back
Reporters: looks like the hens are beginning to eat the foxes. The hens look angry, yet with a sense of joy about them.
Judges: straight to jail.
(Made a little edit for fun)
living creature.
seems odd to remove posts with this rule, as the creature is already dead 🤔🤔
Ok, challenge accepted: every instance I come across from .world that has any indication of violence against anything living, well, I'll be reporting that, and I expect the mods to follow up on it quickly.
I'll start with the gardening instances, since plants do feel pain, and thus any pruning/harvesting/etc is an act of violence, and I'm surprised the .world mods haven't shut down such a violent instance.
Wait, they need to be banned outright, actually, because in order to garden, users are going to have to suggest that people dig into the dirt, and that's a pretty blatant call of violence against all organisms, including those at the microscopic level.
Better delete the woodworking instance too, since the only way to work with wood is to kill a tree and dismember its body, often skinning it immediately after it's been sawed off at the knees, juuuuuuust fresh enough to feel all the pain but not enough to fight back.
What an absolute joke.
Many of us .world mods had nothing to do with these deletions and bannings and I would caution you against this sort of flag abuse in the communities I moderate. It looks like you have already started.
If you have an issue with what happened with the mods in c/news, don't take it out on the rest of us.
We hardly ever even delete comments in Ten Forward, let alone ban people.
We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature.
Oh, you can fuck right off with that bullshit. I'm going to go swat the fly buzzing around in my kitchen and I hope that others will join me in swatting flies and even squishing ants in our houses.
...See what an idiotic policy that is?
kill every single bot fly.
Policy isn't the problem, it's the biased and overzealous enforcement.
I can't see which mod is doing it in the modlog, but just a quick glance found 5 removed comments that don't break any (visible) rules.
You ever notice that you only circle the wagons to defend the worst? Always seem to go out of your way to do it too. I don't see any threats in that picture. Nothing that even could be reasonably called a threat. Yet up pops Jordan to save the day. Almost like clockwork.
Calls for violence? Like the 3,473 daily posts about guillotining billionaires?
Any way, I'm glad he's dead.
We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature."
Modlogs are public...
They're being waaaaay stricter than that.
Hey look, it’s the shitty Zionist bootlicking mod themselves.
LOL - this you?
So much for "freedom of speech", unless you're rich or a CEO i guess...
The First Amendment right to freedom of speech in the USA applies to the relationship between citizens and the government's authority. Lemmy servers are not the US government, and Lemmy users must abide by the Terms of Service on the Lemmy servers they use.
It's that simple.
You still have the freedom to create your own server and host whatever content you want on there. Lemmy is open source I believe so you can go right ahead and federate your own free speech.
Side note, I'm not saying this to defend health insurance crooks. I'm currently dealing with several insurance problems with denied coverage myself. We can all see the motive of that hooded man clearly.
I dont think you wouldnt be banned if you celebrated anyone elses murder
The problem with the bans is that most users think the murder of someone who caused people so much pain is justified, while the mod believed that celebrating murder is wrong. It wasnt about the money
I wasn’t aware lemmy was the government.
So glad i went to Divide by Zero
I left after World said they would federate with threads.
Not familiar with the guy, and all the current news articles are filled with quotes from people who obviously have reason to say sweet nothings about him. Anybody care to fill in his bio for us non Americans?
He ... was... the CEO of UHC, one of the largest private healthcare providers in the US.
The dude himself was facing a DOJ investigation into insider trading.
... He didn't even have a profile pic on his LinkedIn. He did not want people to know that much about him, pretty odd for the CEO of such a large company.
UHC as a company has a long history of scandals and extortion style bullshit, much of which he oversaw.
Huge, huge data breach, which UHC compensates those affected by basically saying 'lol, not our problem.'
Used AI model to automate the process of denying people's medical claims.
(Remember how we were gonna have Death Panels if we gave in to ObamaCare or better alternatives? Yeah uh turns out the free market just builds its own fully automated heartless machine that acts as an uberefficient Death Panel, whoops)
Tons of instances of UHC harassing doctors for having the gall to attempt to get their patient's needed care covered by their insurance, denying needed care to chronically ill people for bullshit reasons.
Not like a doctor knows anything about what medical care their patient needs, obviously a number crunching, penny pinching person with mo medical degree whatsoever knows better.
Pretty good write-up so far, but I think it's missing the fact that for some time, the "AI" they used had a ~90% error rate, causing it to decline care. That's not a typo, ninety, nine zero. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/unitedhealth-lawsuit-ai-deny-claims-medicare-advantage-health-insurance-denials/
https://arstechnica.com/health/2023/11/ai-with-90-error-rate-forces-elderly-out-of-rehab-nursing-homes-suit-claims/) (sorry about the ad filled articles, would use an archive link but the site isn't working for me right now)
Gee, I wonder why people celebrated his shooting!
The CEO got the treatment he gave his customers.
The whole "X instance are censoring users" was always projection lol.
Two things can be true at the same time: https://feddit.nl/post/16246531
Don't get me wrong, I feel as though these CEOs shouldn't be surprised at all. But those are toxic responses. With that said, I'm still laughing at the memes. Keep'em coming.
Whats the paradox of tolerance?
It's a fucking paradox.
It honestly amazes me that damned near everyone seems to miss that part, even though it's in the fucking name.
It's a actually a philosophical argument against tolerating the intolerant, against giving those who do or would destroy an equal voice in the name of tolerance.
The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance. This paradox was articulated by philosopher Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945),[2] where he argued that a truly tolerant society must retain the right to deny tolerance to those who promote intolerance. Popper posited that if intolerant ideologies are allowed unchecked expression, they could exploit open society values to erode or destroy tolerance itself through authoritarian or oppressive practices.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
The actual 'paradox' is just used as a starting position for an argument, and that argument has a definitive, non paradoxical conclusion, according to Popper, the guy who came up with the whole thing.
Somtimes there's more to a term than just the words that constitute it.
the paradox of tolerance is stupid (e: as a rhetorical tool) anyway because why on earth is a paradox a suitable foundation for any argument, much less an argument with life and death involved? literally wish i could wipe that shit from the history of the internet.
(edit: obviously i still agree with the sentiment of the paradox but it could be argued so much more efficiently.) real ones conceive of tolerance as a social contract. infinitely easier and less chronically online “um-akshually”-pilled.
I think the question was more about how it's is paradox.
Not tolerating intolerance is in itself, intolerance.
As an example: This paradox is commonly used as quip against people who support things like gay rights that also get pissed off at political parties that attempt to restrict gay rights.
Weird how killing even shit bags is still illegal. Its like it's a crime or something and we're a civilization.
Try to remain part of it, lest that sword's other edge show up.
The other edge has been cutting us all for decades upon centuries, I'm glad you are priveleged enough to have not seen it first hand.
Holy fuck what's wrong with you peole. Two wrongs doesn't make it right
No but hopefully this wrong will make others think twice about being shitty leeches
Two wrongs can make you feel better about the first though, and that’s good enough for me!
If you think people screeching, celebrating, frothing at the mouth, and advocating violence is "popular sentiment" then you're part of the goddamned problem. The lynch mob mentality around here is sickening.
If you think there is any kind of other functional way to solve the problem that is a capitalist class which has completely captured the government, thus making peaceful resistance or relying soley on the (captured and controlled) official mechanisms of democratic government an ineffective palliative at best, then I'd say you're part of the problem.
Also, tsk tsk, cursing, no reason to be uncivil.
EDIT: Also, sure I indicated I hope more corpos die, but tons of people made jokes that did not call for more death, they were just laughing about it.
The problem with this approach is that the "corpos," as you say, are way better at killing people than the problem-solvers are. They have a ton of experience and they have all the weapons and money.
Everyone who hasn't been through a civil war says, "Let's just do one! We can kill the bad people and solve all the problems. It's the only way." The people who've been through one tend to say, "Violence is all fun and simple until it starts happening to you and everyone you care about. It's like a nightmare you can't escape, and there's no way to stop it once it starts, just ride it out to the shattered conclusion. And there's no guarantee that the post-conclusion world will be any better. Sometimes it is dramatically worse. Let's try some other things first."
I read an interesting paper on the French Revolution once. It made a note about how there's so much fuss made about the deaths of the noble class there in the French Revolution and how it's so universally decried in our society. But little note has ever made about the millions of people who were killed in the centuries before the French Revolution by those same Nobles. In numbers that far far outweigh the few Nobles who died in the revolution . How there's no massive outcry or public condemnation of all the peasants that were allowed to starve, or who kicked off their lands, or were thrown into useless Wars for the profit of the few. How all that suffering and human Carnage is just accepted as every day, until it happens to the wealthy.
Do you have any idea how much death and suffering that man has caused in the pursuit of profit?
Like, he caused actual harm and death to people...
But because he does it calmly while wearing a suit, you're judging his victims (or their surviving family) for not giving a fuck he's dead?
Are you just not familiar with the American Health are industry?
It isn't just mob mentality; the person in question is blamed for the suffering of multiple other people, and the commenters here are taking that into account. In an ideal world this CEO would have been judged and condemned, instead of someone taking the matter into their own hands, but we're far off from an ideal world.
