Bernie Sanders to voters skipping presidential election over Israel: ‘Trump is even worse’

Where is this a genocide denial. It actively mentions that Biden quite fucks up Palestine.

Also, can't remember Harris threatening to fuck up literally everyone who isnt a cis white male that supports her.

Ok so how does not voting help with this?

If genocide is wrong, then genocide is wrong, no matter what the level.

supporters rarely engage in real discussions and just repeat insulting slogans

To be fair, with a stance so immensely stupid, there isn't much else to say.

80% Russian campaign and 20% reaction to being lectured constantly by people who will forget that progressive votes are needed to beat Republicans when it comes time to pick a new candidate.

It will absolutely true next election. Democrats will keep undermining progressives and running weak and ineffective candidates until the dice fall badly and the fascists win. That's how these cycles always go.

Every election will be more dangerous than the one before until elections stop. The next Trump will be far more capable than the rapist toddler we're dealing with now.

I'm pretty sure this has been the scare tactic for the last 8 presidential elections of my lifetime

You don't need much of a brain to understand that voting and supporting criminals with blood on their hands is bad. You also don't need to be too smart to understand that your choice isn't limited to vote between two colors.

Nobody with half a brain would fall for that

it's a lot of good people on the far left side of twitter

I've got a question for you... I'm sure you are familiar with the famous, "First They Came" sermon/poem/whatever by Martin Niemöller? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

At what point during that poem would you consider a genocide underway? Would it be when they started murdering all of the communists? Or maybe after they eliminated all of the trade unionists?

Let's extend that poem to include all of the categories of people that the Nazis killed:

They started with trans people, was it a genocide yet? How about after they started including homosexuals?

Maybe it becomes a genocide when they go after the mentally and physically disabled?

Or does it only become a genocide when they go after the Jews?

Obviously, the answer is all of the fucking above.

Guess what: Genocide very much can and does get worse. Much much worse. This concept that it is all or nothing is completely ahistorical and illogical.

Sure, but one side seems to be advocating for more of the same shittiness we've had for decades, and the other side for a final solution to the Palestinian problem. It's not like the choices are equal.

Sounds like a hell of a system.

somewhat more genocidal maniac

Somewhat?

And Trump straight up said that Israel needs to "finish the job" and that the Gaza Strip will make his beachfront property. So yeah, be sick of what's been going on. Most of us are. But also think of the consequences of the inactions if Trump becomes president. You'll also have to deal with that.

What's worse?

Will Putin send you to the front lines if Trump loses?

We fucking know, dude.

That's why we're voting for Harris. And no, I'm not going to explain why for the 1000th fucking time.

I'm aware that the US government does propaganda too, yes. I have no idea what it has to do with this.

That’s called logic. And a firm understanding of how things work. But also, that comes from people that know Harris will do what she is able to stop it once she’s elected, but needs to play the game to have a chance for that to happen.

But you all know this already. Don’t you?

It's the same fucking thing, oh my god

Same thing. The fact that most of these accounts, very similar to your own, are new accounts speaks volumes.

It’s funny how people only interested in the “logic” of harm reduction don’t realize why this is the case. Like, no shit people will get more upset over a police officer killing innocent people over the random maniac with a gun killing innocent people.

Calling a genocide a “single issue” is offensive as fuck.

It's literally objective reality. It is one single issue among many. If you're unwilling to consider other issues when voting just because one of them is genocide, that makes it a single issue and it makes you a single issue voter.

I don't give a fuck if that offends you. Get lost.

There is a lot more going on in the Middle East than any American citizen can understand. Voting for ANY candidate will not fix it. Even if we voted in a candidate that vehemently opposed Israel, nothing would change. Our military and I intelligence network there is dependent on a strong Israel.

Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it except purge congress and get all anti Israel politicians. Good luck making that happen.

Electoral politics is a fickle thing. If Harris makes a statement either way on Palestine, she will lose.

I just can't seem to understand why nobody seems to get this.

Edit: I honestly can't wait until November 6th when all of these bullshit, brand new accounts astroturfing for third parties and doing everything they can to get the fascist elected, mysteriously disappear.

And if they don't, well, I guess this website isn't for me.

Its also true that the people backing the genocidal candidates are in fact so afraid of you voting they want to remove your power to do so.

A vote isn't an endorsement, its a strategic action. Its a tool as much as knife, wrench or a bullet is. Use it effectively and you can help more people than you hurt.

I have not seen many leftists not agree that both votes are for genocide - that's just a given.

But protesting the system during the election is daft. Do you want genocide, or more genocide? You are not a slave to the system if you vote and then actually do something about it to change it.

Ignoring the current system is plain ignorance. Voting doesn't make you a slave. Voting and giving up makes you a slave. How about vote and campaign for change instead. Despair does not lead to change.

I 100% agree that this is classic manufactured consent, and there is no real choice in this election.

I also want there to be a real choice in the future. The least we can do in the future is get ranked choice voting and do away with the electoral college. Almost literally the least; those are so bare minimum that they can't even be called radical.

I sit here with my hand in the sand.

Your reading comprehension is fucking atrocious, then. Even when Biden was the candidate, the vast majority has been saying "ok, continuing to support Isreal as they commit war atrocities is bad, but Trump would be much worse" for Gaza, and a ton of other things. Like democracy in America, for starters"

There are no lines to read between. It's the bold text that we accept that a vote for Dems is a vote for genocide. But given no other plausible alternative, and the enormous risk to a plethora of other issues that Trump represents, voting for less genocide is the best option on the table.

But you are well aware this. You're just arguing under false pretext to strawman your way to voter disenfranchisement.

See, we can actually read between lines here.

Trump has been sabotaging peace talks

This is pure horseshit.

• Trump touts warm ties to Israel's Netanyahu, blasts Harris

• Trump, Netanyahu speak about Gaza hostage-ceasefire deal, Axios reports

• Trump says he told Netanyahu to end Gaza war but criticizes ceasefire call

• Trump signals support in call with Netanyahu: ‘Do what you have to do’

It’s the Palestinian American’s fault for not endorsing the genocide of their immediate friends and family.

Voting isn't a love letter, it's a chess move. Biden, Harris and other establishment liberals absolutely deserve to be relentlessly mocked and criticized (and frankly indicted) for cheerleading Israel's genocide, but aiding in the political victory of someone twice as genocidal as them, and who also intends to end democracy and target his political opponents would be a bad move.

lots of grace for trump and republicans on this issue from you, but little for democrats. Its known Netanyahu wants trump to win and has been trying to make the US as ugly as possible on this issue, the question is, why is Netanyahu playing you like a fiddle?

I agree with Michael Moore's theory that this was why many people voted for Trump in 2016. They felt ignored and powerless, so they said okay here, I'll vote for this asshole, see how you like that! It was an expensive lesson that I don't think the Democratic party has really paid attention to. Their response was to rethink their campaign strategies - many of them probably blamed their loss on trying to elect a woman for President - so they regrouped and managed to get Biden elected. But he didn't put any bold ideas forward. All he really did was be a Democrat in the White House instead of a Republican. I don't feel like Kamala Harris is playing that game. She really does want to move forward in a big way and not go back.

What part of "Trump is actively sabotaging peace talks" do you not understand?

Please, refer to this chart -

I mean its likely trump will continue the genocide for people who managed to flee to the US by revoking the legal status of refugees given he seems to think the word "palestinian" means "terrorist"

The cruel calculus is that Netanyahu wants trump to win.

Do you hold your nose and vote Harris to deny Netanyahu another victory or do you roll over entirely for Netanyahu and let him have an assistant in genocide with Trump? What is the lesser of two evils here?

Netanyahu, at least, will be thrilled to hear palestinians are not voting for Kamala because of him.

So genocide is a single issue to you, like school vouchers or fema funding?

Hey now. Vote for Kamala and you can get genocide, school privatization, and more underfunded climate disasters. You don't have to choose.

Dems of 2024 have fully ingested the Republican platform of 2004. That's why the Cheneys are campaigning for the Harris ticket.

So genocide is a single issue to you, like school vouchers or fema funding?

Hey now. Vote for Kamala and you can get genocide, school privatization, and more underfunded climate disasters. You don't have to choose.

Dems of 2024 have fully ingested the Republican platform of 2004. That's why the Cheneys are campaigning for the Harris ticket.

Are you replying to LovableSidekick? The grandparent post didn't mention genocide.

Thinking killing is wrong is not ignorant. Deliberately ignoring the point is ignorant. If Harris loses Trump wins, and if Trump wins things will be a lot worse for Palestine. Refusing to help because you're standing on an imaginary moral high ground is both wrong AND ignorant, because you're clearly smart enough to look beyond your own righteousness. You have no excuse.

Trump told bibi to "hurry up and finish the job. He will kill 10x as many Palestinians and say they deserved it.

He has also promised to "round up millions of illegals" in the US and put them in camps, itself a genocide. He will undoubtedly kill thousands doing it.

He also stated that he will use the military to eliminate " the enemy within," who he specially called leftists like yourself. He will kill people in the process.

Your choice should be pretty clear if you abhor killing.

They believe in Schrodinger's Jew: that Jews simultaneously control US politics and that US Presidents control Israel.

Most of Israel's weapons come from the US. It's very well possible for the US congress/government to say "no more weapons if you use them for agression".

Oh man, this is a doozy. You aren't wrong but I've got to get some sleep. To explain this is A LOT.

The thing is the Leahy Law doesn't put the power directly in the President's hands. It grants the vetting process to the Secretary of State. Which is a member of the cabinet of the President. Which I don't know how familiar you are with how the Executive Office works or not. But Secretary of State Antony Blinken is the one who wields the power to deny Israel's aid.

There's Executive Orders (EO) that the President can give but there's the whole "what if" Blinken quits given an EO and then we have to get the Senate involved which is currently 50-50 on Republicans and Democrats. Which that turns it even more complex and Senators can delay confirmation until after the election or if they're really bitter, until next year. Which means that everything that requires a Secretary of State would get put on pause.

I get that everyone thinks the President gets to have the final say, but the President orders people around on EOs, which the various Secretaries can just quit if they don't want to follow them, and then that kicks everything to the Senate. That's kind of a built in protection in our system of Government to prevent a President becoming a dictator. If a President wants XYZ done and the Secretary thinks that's bad, they quit and the Senate becomes involved potentially delaying the President forever.

There's way more background on why Blinken has only stopped two aids and also because of classification reasons, not every stopping of aid can be published, unless the President does so since the President has unilateral authority on classification markings (except for anything related to the name of spies and nuclear bomb designs, that is one of the few things that requires both the President and Congress to sign off on, there's a few other exceptions as well but I won't go into them).

But anyways, Blinken is the one who can stop aid. The President could order him, but he could also quit, which means the Senate would get involved, and I can explain why all of that would be messy if you need me to.

why can't he veto the military aid

The President only has veto power on bills that have passed both the House and the Senate. Once something becomes law, the President "has" to carry it out. There's a ton of background on "Executive Discretion" and any time the President wants to exercise discretion, Congress can sue, which then brings the matter into the other branch, the Judicial. Plenty of States that would sign on, to a Congressional suit (which that's a requirement for Congress to sue the President, at least one State has to join in).

So Biden could use Discretion to delay funding, and he's done that quite a few times, but he can't just outright NOT pay when the law requires him to do so. That discretion comes from a kind of EO called a "Reviewing Executive Order" and it requires a department to "review" ((insert whatever the topic is)). That's a delay, but it isn't a halt. The President has to follow the law as well. So if we have a law that says, "we provide $xxx to Israel's Iron Dome", we have to send that money to them at some point.

A lot of the funds that Israel is getting, is funding they secured before the Gaza invasion. There's been recent upping of that funding that Congress has passed, but that's been on things called Continuing Resolutions (CR). Republicans in the House (who are the ones who control what the US Budget is) have been using CRs to get choice things enacted. That's because Republicans in the House have passed rules on how a budget may be formed in the House that are impossible to comply with (which that's a whole long story). So if Democrats in the House refuse to accept the CRs the Republicans offer, the Government shuts down.

Anyways, that's been a lot already. If you need me to clear anything up, let me know. But Harris likely wouldn't have Blinken as Secretary of State, which would fix A WHOLE LOT. But I don't know, because if the election isn't kind to Democrats in the Senate and Republicans have a majority in the Senate, they could block Harris' Sec. of State unless they specifically pledged to support Israel. Now they could absolutely lie about that, but then Congress could also impeach them, but that would cut off aid to Israel for some time as that's not an easy process to impeach a secretary of state.

We must always vote for the lesser evil because that’s what the real world is

Ah, the world is always things getting more evil, the choice is just slower or faster? Sounds shit to me, you can have it.

You come off as someone who had the protocols of the elders of Zion read to you in your sleep every night without your knowledge

In really it’s probably a mix that totals to around 90% of the people making these pronouncements are either bots, paid trolls from enemy nations, nihilists, or the equivalent.

All you're missing is that one magic word

Your world view is pretty self defeating dont you think?

So make a choice: Israel or Palestine.

You say that like the choice hasn't already been made without the input of the voters.

What should happen to Palestinians if Israel is chosen? What should happen to Israelis if Palestine is chosen?

The two-state solution is a boondoggle.

Better tell that to China, or do you know better than an AES state?

That's right. And then they conveniently forgot about the following midterms.

Doubtful. They're the kind of people who say that Bernie is a shitlib and controlled opposition.

I did, but most of his supporters did not follow through.

I really wouldn't bet on it.

A truly black and white, good VS evil war is actually raging right now in Ukraine, yet these morons are silent on that one. I wonder why 🤔

Because we're not arming the bad guys in that one genius. Russia is also a nuclear power and most people still don't think MAD is a good idea if you're suggesting we should be advocating for open warfare against russia.

He probably gets tired of so many others being more popular and more incorrect.

We need a whole senate of inter generational Bernies.

I'm so sorry to hear that. It sounds like she's a smart woman. One stranger to another, if you need someone to vent to, feel free to dm me ❤️

Yeah both are bad

Here's the reality; we're all playing the trolley problem but it's with real people and unfortunately the only options are kill more people or kill less people. If you know that by not voting you're killing more people then you can't claim you're not responsible for their deaths.

If you really care go out and protest the system after the election. Choosing to let more people die now is a protest but you have blood on your hands.

This is a very confusing stance, you’re advocating for not voting while not being a US citizen so you can’t vote??

And you completely misunderstand first past the post voting. You have it in the UK too. It’s how labor got elected, your far right party split the conservative vote. The risk here is that due to the US’ electoral college system a select few states (incl. TX, NC, GA, FL, VA, NV, ME not just the rust belt strip) will decide the election. Thus for those states, someone who could vote must vote for the Dems.

Any possible vote not for the Dems will help the Repubs get closer to clinching those close states, whether it’s no-vote or one of the virtue-signaling 3rd party candidates. (Yes, they only split the vote and are worthless for reducing harm, build 3rd party from local up)

Only one of two candidates will win thanks to FPTP. Both candidates will continue to enable genocide. But one candidate - Trump - will target trans people and will target women and will target minorities at home. So if you are a US citizen who can vote, you do the proper ethical thing: you vote for harm reduction via voting for the Democrats.

A vote is not an endorsement, you don’t have to feel tied to it; it’s an infinitesimal push to a better atmosphere to advocate for the end of the genocide. If Trump is in power left-leaning people will be split putting out fires: trying to keep trans people alive, trying to get women proper healthcare, trying to keep minorities from being rounded up. There will be less bandwidth for stopping the genocide, much less pushing for more progressive change.

In short, the only ethical move is to vote if you’re a US citizen to mitigate harm and improve the progressive landscape to be able to maximalize effort towards ending the genocide. The only ethical move if you’re not a US citizen is to not advocate for not voting for the democrats; might as well be a Russian bot at that point.

Tankie detected

And it should happen way more in the US. I genuinely don’t understand how can you be american and sleep at night.

Is Russian paranoia the Qanon for the left? Anytime there is a challenge it's immediately where people go.

Good lord you missed the point. Yes I will leave your precious fucked up country ahah block block hurry up