Did the concept of 9-5 included a 30 minute lunch and two 15 minute breaks?
Did the concept of 9-5 included a 30 minute lunch and two 15 minute breaks?
You always hear the phase “9 to 5” and also the song with the same name. Assuming you include 1 hour worth of breaks (30 minute lunch and two 15 minute breaks), you’re only working for 7 hours a day which comes up to 35 hours a week.
Now it feels like you have to work 8 hours a day (for a total of 40 hours of actual work), plus your other time off meaning you’re really there for 9 hours each day (for a total of 45 hours). Am i looking at that wrong, or did expected times change, and if so, when?
Everything changed. You're not crazy. If you watch movies made before the 2000s about office culture, including the movie 9 to 5, you can see that the hours included a lunch break. Which was paid.
Yes, those of the older generation had it easier in every way.
Is this a US thing? Do you not get paid for your lunch hour? That's wild.
I live in Canada. We get a half-hour lunch that isn't paid in my province.
Also, if you take more than 3 sick days a year, your boss can fire you. And the 3 sick days are unpaid. The government lowered the number from 10 to 3 shortly before the pandemic, and didn't raise it again! Oh, and to count, your boss can demand a doctor's note. Which cost money to the patient.
Depends on the state, in my state you legally have to get paid for 30 minute lunches but not hour long lunches. No idea why but because of this most office jobs will give you an hour lunch in addition to your mandated 2, 10 minute breaks.
Honestly I would love to just take a 30 minute break and get out earlier. It's not even about the money.
Same in Germany, I think this common in many countries, no?
Where do you get paid for your lunch hour? I'm in Germany and while work life balance is certainly a thing here, more so than in the US, a paid lunch break is something I have never heard about.
Typically no but my current employer pays us for 1/2 of our 1 hour lunch.
I work 10’s and we get 2 paid 20 minute breaks that are actually usually 25-30 depending on how caught up we all are individually since they let you walk away early if you’re caught up and how long after you get up, go to the bathroom, get some coffee , put your stuff up.
They’re actually pretty chill as long as you stay caught up
For the record, lunch time is not considered paid time in Sweden either.
Those old tv shows where they casually eat breakfast before work make more sense. They weren't up at 6, rushing to get to work by 8. They had a whole hour more.
They also had someone to make it for them. One income was enough for the household.
Is the part about being able to socialize also a mythic fantasy? Where ever do people work that they find the time to have conversations?
I am 51. When I started working my job was 9-5 with a one hour lunch an unofficial 30 minute coffee break and about four unofficial ten minute smoke breaks.
You're thinking small-time, like an hourly worker. Good office jobs are generally salaried positions and the idea of clocking in and out is... not a thing. Some days you work more, some less, whatever needs to be done. The idea of 9-5 is just a general time frame. And no one gives a shit when you lunch or break. In a real profession the yardstick is, are you getting it done or not?
I'll catch grief for saying that, so I'll preempt by saying, if your job isn't like that, you likely have a shit job.
Gentle reminder that without "small time", hourly workers doing real labor your easy, sweatless, office job would disappear overnight. Perhaps some gratitude? Maybe even some solidarity?
As a former IT professional turned baker, I dislike the condescending attitude too many white collar workers have toward the actual wheel turners of the world.
"doing real labor" "easy, sweatless, office job" "the actual wheel turners"
"I dislike the condescending attitude"
It never ceases to amaze me how often people see and hate shit in other people that they epitomize themselves.
And honestly, my experience has been the opposite and I see the condescending attitude, at least more openly, coming from blue collar workers more often.
I've done it all, from shoveling asphalt to dishpits to customer service, all that and a dozen more. Guess what? Those were shit jobs. Doesn't make the person doing those jobs shit.
Some of y'all are so eager to be offended it's ridiculous.
If you want solidarity you need to stop shitting on office workers first. You're lambasting your own behaviour with this comment. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
Me laughing in salaried 9-5 with clock in and clock out. Pay deduction if i forget to do clock in or out even if everyone know i work that day. Got paid 50% less than people who did the same job same position who didn't need to clock in/out.
I have a shit job and the only thing that keep me going is the job close to where i and my family live so i can check on my sister (found out that she do self harm once and I'm scared to go faraway from her ever since).
Desperate people make a good cheap employee.
I'm "salaried," and union, but they 100% track our hours and if you use up your benefit time and take additional time off, you will not get paid.
So I'm not even completely sure how they can even call it salary. Like... Maybe I've misunderstood the meaning of that word my entire life?
I'm desperate ATM. Looking at a crappy onsite tech support role, no benefits, just to get by while I keep looking.
I have a salaried position. I don't clock in. But it's typically only used to deny us overtime pay. If I work 35 hours a week, I'm paid 12.5% less than my colleagues who do 40. And if my lunch break is too long, I'm expected to stay late sometime within the month to compensate.
And while I do have a shit job (save me) I've never seen someone whose employer didn't mind their hours as long as they got shit done.
You're not an exempt (salaried) employee if they deduct your pay for working less in a given week. I've never had an employer who cared about hours as long as work got done.
Mine doesn't give a fuck how long we work.
I used to work at an engineering firm and one day I saw one of the engineers leave at like 2pm on a Wednesday and he was like, "Bye, see you next week!" He had been busting his ass to finish a project and already hit his 40hrs for the week.
I was a temp at the time but needless to say, I jumped at the chance when they offered me a real job.
As others have said, I'm in the "put time in, get shit done" camp.
Provided I deliver a job well done, my bosses don't give a fuck what or how many hours I clock per week.
Lolol what kind of fantasy world do you live in? Salaried worker here and although my job isn't 9-5 strictly if I don't work at least 40 hours a week my pay will be docked. So I get to choose between 8-5 or 9-6 or I can work while I eat and get that cushy 9-5 life. Or if I miss work I can make up those hours by working at night. It's a real luxury to be able to do that compared to shift work, but the hours are still being counted.
Also stop being so entitled. Most of your life necessities come from industries (groceries, power plants, gas stations, hospitals, etc) where people work on a timecard/shift basis so don't you come out here and pretend timecard or shift work isn't a "real" profession.
the hours are still being counted
Refer to my last sentence. And you will note that I didn't denigrate anyone's work, only that if they're on the clock, the job probably sucks.
Tell me more about this "some days you work less" concept. It's completely foreign to me
Those would be Fridays at my last job. Swear to god no one did anything unless absolutely necessary and most were gone by mid-afternoon. LOL, which sucked because that's when I was often jamming along and no one was around to help, question, etc.
If your job has you grinding non-stop, that's no way to live and a good employer recognizes that.
Yes. And if you interview for an 8 to 5 job, you tell them that it sounds like a crock of shit and you don't want the job.
So sick of that shit. Fuck any employer who pulls this shit.
I don't WANT your crock of shit job! I'll go live on the streets!!! I'll give blowjobs for $20! And hey.....you want a blowjob? Got $20?
I think i would just not apply if i felt like you do
Employers don't usually broadly advertise their anti-perks. This is the kind of thing you usually discover with a question during an interview or when you're handed your employment contract.
Crock of shit or no, a man's gotta eat. That's kind of how we got into this problem in the first place. They have a captive audience.
USA. Been working 20 years. Every job has been 8 to 5, unpaid 1h lunch, 2x15min paid breaks. :(
The last time I worked hourly was the late 90s. We got a paid 15 break per 4 hours worked. If we worked more than 6 hours, we also got an unpaid 30 minute lunch. I got no benefits because I was part-time at 37.5 hours per week.
Not to mention commute time, time spent getting ready for work/bed, and time spent sleeping. I don't consider any of that to be free time.
I work 10 hour shifts, so once you factor in all that stuff, I get about two full hours for myself each day to do whatever I want, before I have to start the process all over again for tomorrow.
As a guy with an actual office job. It's usually 8-5 or 9-6 with an hour lunch, plus whatever time you spend on coffee or whatever.
It's pretty standard, and it's been that way for a couple decades at least.
And that lunch hour is unpaid.
Where are you working where you are expected to work through your breaks? 9-5 should include your break times as well, yes.
Every job I've ever had.
America I’m guessing.
I'd guess too. In central and eastern Europe, 7 to 3 is the norm but nobody pronounces it that.
Probably the US, specifically. Most of America has unions, except the US has all but made actual unions illegal
Hour long mandatory lunch, no pay. Switzerland.
Switzerland is more like 8-11 12-18. Atleast for me. So more 8-6 than 9-5.
Half an hour mandatory lunch, paid. Austria.
(pretty much depends on your job a bit, just wanted to continue with the same comment style)
Oh shit I need to go pester my family to let me be a citizen (or recheck and go talk to an EU focused immigration lawyer to discuss where exactly in Europe my family was when to see if I qualify)
Having worked in a couple of European countries, I thought 7.5 hours of work plus a half an hour lunch break is the norm everywhere in the western world. So the 9 to 5 did totally make sense to me. I was honestly surprised reading all these comments.
Here in America I work 7.5 with two 15 minute paid breaks and a half hour unpaid lunch. So it’s really more like 8:30-5
Nevermind the world. Even here in Europe in Switzerland the standard is somehow 42 hours a week.
In Spain it’s 40h a week maximum but to explain it simply there are 2 ways to go higher: 1. some professions can go higher as long as they compensate later the same year (the total maximum hours are anually, not weekly). 2.up to 80h a year on extra hours that need to be paid.
That said, that’s what the law says but many people do extra hours without getting paid and people do not sue for a few hours a year.
It has definitely changed, I don't know when, but it's been like this for at least the last decade.
Though, in my experience (NB: I'm a software engineer, which is a notoriously lax field.) only what the piece of paper says has changed. Hell, most of my employee handbooks have claimed that "full time" is 50 hours a week. They get away with it because I'm classified as a "computer employee" (lol) and make more than $35k/year (super lol) which means my employment is exempted from minimum wage and overtime pay laws.
Nobody that I know actually works that consistently. Most people I know don't even do 40. I do 9-5 (or 8:30-4:30 usually), I take breaks when I need them and nobody has ever complained to me about the amount I'm working.
My only guess for why it's this way is that having that be the official working time means it's easier to fire anyone for no reason because they're not working their "contractually obligated" amount of time.
I actually had an argument with a former employer quite a few years ago about that 'computer operator' / ~36k limit thing.
My scummy boss at that time was telling me that because of those stipulations I wasn't eligible for any overtime and they could demand I work as many hours as they want - even though I was hourly. When I said that didn't sound right he dared me to look up our state's employment laws.
So I did (side note: I'm in one of the most employee-friendly states), and it very clearly said that my boss was profoundly wrong. So I sent him the URL to that page. And he and the piece of shit HR person shut right up about it. Me and all of my colleague never heard that ridiculous argument again.
My last couple of jobs, including my current one, have been much more reasonable and accommodating. Even though I'm now salary, they aren't exploitative of me or my colleagues.
So my advice to other IT folk is: take the time to check up on your state's employment laws. If you are being exploited by your employer they may be totally in the wrong.
So my advice to other IT folk is: take the time to check up on your state’s employment laws. If you are being exploited by your employer they may be totally in the wrong.
100%
I'm unfortunately in a state with even more vague and useless definition of who gets to be exempt than the federal definition.
50 hours per week is a lot. Ive been a lot of places where you'd get scolded if you said you worked only 40 hours per week, but usually 42 was acceptable.
Different jobs are different
Sorry for rambling
Your math ain't mathing.
The stereotypical "9 to 5" is an 8 hour shift with a paid hour "lunch break". This includes two 10-15 minute breaks, which are also paid. You come to work at 9, do work, take breaks, take lunch, and then leave at 5. That's 8 hours.
My job is 8 to 430. I come in at 8, work till 12, then I have a half hour unpaid lunch. The unpaid lunch means I cannot be required to stay on site, which can happen with a paid lunch. Then from 1230 to 430 I work until I go home. There are two 10 minute paid breaks in there. I work 8 hours total in an 8.5 hour work day.
if someone tried to dictate the amount of work hours that I put in during the day I would just start puking and shitting
I'm pretty sure it's in your contract of employment
not if you're a wizard
It's one of those ambiguous things that employers seem to be leveraging to their advantage. Where I work, plenty of people do 8-5. Those of us who have been around longer and don't give as much of a shit will count lunch as part of our day.
Dutch law describes a mandatory break of 30 minutes (or 2 15 minute breakes) if a working day is longer that 5.5 hours. Break is not work, thus not payed.
This neglects that the breaks are not free time spent as desired and is entirely constrained to the circumstances of employment. You would not eat or do the same tasks in the timespan. Therefore it is not your time and should be compensated for. Like owning a vehicle, you still own it even when you are not driving it or it is broken down. Pretending ownership is only limited to the time the vehicle is in gear and moving is delusional logic for any such pro slavery State. Employment must include far more ethical responsibly than this.
Using that logic this includes commuting, as that is also not free time spent as desired.
It depends on where you are and whether you join a union or not. Labor laws vary by state and by country. Paid lunches and breaks may or may not be part of your employment contract.
My time sheet totals 37.5 hours of work per week and I can take take a lunch break of 30 to 60 minutes. The break is unpaid and a minimum break of 30 minutes is required after 5 straight hours of work so the lunch break is mandatory.
Typically this works out to 7.5 hours work with a 30 minutes break totalling 8 hours on site. Smaller breaks are untimed so if we need to stretch our legs or get some fresh air no one is watching the clock. We also have a pretty good culture of not interrupting people's lunch with work issues so that does feel like an actual break.
In Canada, the regulations have been 8 hour workday with two paid 15 minute breaks in that period and an unpaid 30 minute break for salaried workers, unless otherwise agreed by contract, since I started working in the early 90s.
This means a lot of people work 9-5:30 or 8:30-5. Union jobs generally have a 8 hour day in total with a 1 hour lunch break, and other professions have other arrangements.
For a number of years, I took my “lunch break” at 5 and just worked a straight 8 hour day with two 15 minute breaks.
All my jobs have either been 9-5 or 9:30-5:30 with an hour lunch included. TBH I've never tracked my pay by the hour, just the day.
My job is 9 to 5 including one hour lunch time when I started, it at least that's what the HR person and my boss told me when I started. Early this year I saw my position "obligations" or whatever is called and it says that I work 9 to 6 so 🤷 I hope they never enforce it
Better to raise this concern early. It also fucks over your coworkers if you don't speak up and correct it
Shit, 45 hours a week would be amazing, my now former employer wanted me working 5 12hour shifts and pay me so little I needed a weekend job on top of that.
What the fuck job did you do
Professional blood donor
Neurodiagnostic Technologist, luckily I'm in a better situation now.
I guess it depends on the company. Mine clearly expects us to work on 37.5 hours per week whether you work non stop from 9 to 4.30 or from 7 to 7 with many long breaks. And any overtime I do during the week makes my day at work on Friday that much shorter.
I think it differs a bit from province to province in Canada, but where I'm at, you can either work 8.5 hours with a half hour lunch, or 9 hours with a 1 hour lunch. It's up to the employer. 15 minute breaks are paid, but not guaranteed (if it's busy). Lunch breaks are unpaid and mandatory.
Im fortunate. Work 08:30 - 17:00 with an hour break which I take at 14:00 and we can take mini breaks whenever we want to really. I work from home 3 days and often don’t take the hour and finish at 16:00.
did [...] included
Nope. It's 'did include' .
Oh, the grammar folk have made it to lemmy! You're right tho