Yeah, agreed on everything. Dark Brandon, you have my vote.

Netanyahu is a madman though and I hope he sees his day in international court for these crimes.

There is literally only one sane choice on the ballot this year.

Which is the real problem, has been a problem since before I could vote, and is a problem that cannot be fixed.

THANK YOU. This is what I was wanting to say.

The Middle East is a mess. Israel is hated by literally everyone around them, and I guarantee you that Russia is waiting in the wings for us to do the stupid thing and stop backing Israel. It would solidify Russia's ties with Iran, weaken America's stance in the Middle East, and make us look bad internationally. I guaranfuckingtee you that if Israel gets glassed by its numerous opponents in the Middle East because America held up aid over Gaza, that shit will be spun WORLD WIDE as America giving in to Antisemitism, which will be hung STRAIGHT on the Global Left's shoulders. It's fucking transparent. And calling Biden a genocidal Zionist just plays RIGHT into Russia and the Global Right's agenda. Again, if you're saying that bullshit, you're either part of the Right-Wing attack on the Left, or you are a useful idiot being leveraged by the Global Right as a weapon to hit the Left with.

Oh, if I only had more Upvotes to give you, kescusay. :)

I agree with your first two paragraphs, but disagree with you minimizing the conflict with the rest. The Israel Palestine conflict isn't a mess because it's in the Middle East or ancient tribal grudges or religion or any of that. It's because one group wanted another group's land and so they decided to take it even though people already lived there. And now a genocide is happening. Same thing happened in the US, Canada, Australia, it's basic settler colonialism, but happening recently enough that we can try to stop it this time. He's acting way too slow. It's a hard line for a lot of people, and for good reason. That's the biggest crime you can do basically.

It's one of the simplest situations in the world right now. And Biden hasn't done anything about it but words and some small aid towards Palestinians. He needs to start taking actual action to stop the killing and start denying weapons to Israel, censuring them in the UN, using sanctions, things like that, that they'd be doing for any other country, like Russia. Netanyahu is making Biden look very weak. Iran has no reason to invade, that's a silly worry. There's no evidence that would happen. And Israel can defend itself with all the weapons they already have. The only reason Biden is acting slow is because he's a self-professed Zionist and Israel Stan, and has been his whole life.

And Iran isn't the "good guys" but that also doesn't mean they're the "bad guys" for retaliating when they're attacked, that just invites other nations to keep doing that. Same excuse we give for helping Ukraine stop Russia. International law is there for a reason. The US has done plenty of horrible stuff to all of South America, that shouldn't give them the freedom to start killing our officials or attacking near or at embassies. In this situation, we're the ones defending the bad guys trying to ravage this conflict, which is Israel.

But on all other topics, Biden is good. But this is just an important one for a lot of people. This is the most we've been involved in causing ethnic cleansing since manifest destiny and the Native Americans. We have the chance to at least not enable a genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign from a country that we directly supply the weapons for, and we're blowing it.

So obviously I don't want to see the massacre of the Israelis any more than the Palestinians, but if "Israel fell" why would the conflict overtake the whole region? Israel's existence, and constant poking of the hornets nests, is the catalyst for instability in the region. If it went away, wouldn't there be relative peace over there? I'm not advocating for it... Just a thought experiment.

I just like to think that we're currently playing the Weimar Germany game. Let Trump win and you'll have given the Republicans decades of power if not more. They've been planning for years to control the government through the supreme court, you think this is the worst they can do?

For those wanting acceleration towards collapse, that's not guaranteed, and will cause many deaths in the process if it does, and there probably still won't be any guarantee or high likelihood of some sorta takeover by the proletariat or what have you. Seeing as how most of the militant groups in the US are likely to be right wing, all you'll have is a right wing take over after a collapse.

If you think the system is failing us now, you must have been asleep from 2017 through 2020, especially for the part where unmarked, literally secret as in unknown, police came in and abducted people protesting the murder of a Black dude, and beat the shit out of them before releasing them. The system REALLY failed us then.

I get it. You think the Democrats don't represent your issues in the Congress. I don't agree with that, as a good half of the achievements listed here benefit the little guy in one way or another, but yeah. Biden answers to the moneyed class, and that is bipartisan. But you only get 26 out of 100 people in the room to flat out come out and say "Yeah, I'm with that guy," pointing to you. In the polls, you might net another 25 people, and 49 people vote for the R in this accursed D and R duopoly we call our government. But pay attention to those numbers. You can't afford to lose a lot of people. If Jill Stein picks off 3 of your 51 people, it's 49 Trump, 48 Biden, 3 Stein, and all 51 of the anti-Trump voters suffer with Trump. Those are the rules the game is played by.

As I said to the other person arguing that it's wrong to expect people to vote for people who don't give them exactly what they want, I agree. We need better choices. But there are smart ways to go about doing this, and dumb ways to go about doing it. And allowing the authoritarian jerk in isn't just a dumb way to go about doing it. It's a dumb and cruel way. And understand if you're a White Liberal choosing to vote Third Party or stay home and not vote Joe Biden the Genocidal Monster: you are benefiting from your White Privilege. You, like me, can keep your head down and pretend to be a Loyal Member of the Race, a Good American who pays your taxes and salutes the flag. You can scrub your Social Media posts and hide behind your anonymity on places like Lemmy, and go about your life. You will not be the first put into the cages by the Trump ICE. You will not be the first rounded up and deported to a foreign land with no citizenship. You will not be the first detained by the military during protests. Many, many people will pay the price for your privilege of voting third party or staying home because you won't vote for no 'genocider'. But remember two things First, you will have brought the genocide you say you oppose onto American shores. Second, once they are done with the migrants, the transgender people, the gays, the 'sinful' women protesting their rights to get a safe abortion, and so on, there'll be nobody left to protect you when they turn their attention to you.

Again. Biden ain't no bed of roses. But one of two people will win in 2024, just like one of two people would win in 2020, and one of two people would win in 2016. I consider you all who voted Stein or Johnson in 2016 or stayed home in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to be responsible for what Trump did in 2017 through 2020, and if Trump wins in 2024, I'll hold you all accountable for what happens in 2025 and beyond.

The two party system always comes down to who runs the least shittiest candidate.

For me. That's not always who wins.

"lesser evilism" is the entire system, since nearly the beginning.

Tell me you're not a student of history without telling me you're not a student of history.

This whole “lesser evilism” schtick that the bootlicker Dems have been relying on since 2016?

Since 1948 at least.

What kind of alarmism is this? If you want choice, push for ranked choice voting and dismantling of the republican party, then you're free to establish however many new parties you want. Lots of countries manage to have 10+ parties on parliament

let's just embrace the greater evil/demonstrable threat now then, shall we?

(/s)

You make valid points and we ultimately agree that we should change our voting system. But that happens from the ground up, voting for a third party in the presidential election does nothing.

What are they going to do? "Oh no, people are unhappy with the two parties...well we better dilute our power and give them ranked voting."

Never going to happen. But you can work locally to get the changes and encourage that elsewhere. Voting third party is worse than slacktavism, as it's both pointless and counter productive.

Don't try to play the game you want to be playing, play the one you're currently playing.

In their post 2020-majority they could have done so much legislatively that they didn’t even bother considering - like campaign finance reform or expanding the courts, or even changing the rules around judicial nominees to prevent future shenanigans, but that would impact their bottom line or their ability to inspire panic at election-time.

This conspiracy theory is so weird.

How exactly are legislative Democrats supposed to accomplish these things when their bare-bones Senate majority depends on Manchin and Sinema? I mean really, specifically, how are they supposed to get things done?

Y'all are always like "they should do more" but you won't give them the numbers to do it. In a 60/40 Senate we can make wonderful things happen, but you just won't give it to us.

Why do you always assume we have to be convinced he's not as bad as Trump? That's obvious.

What unconvinced voters need to be given isn't fear "vote for us or the worse guy wins!", it's hope. What is the Biden administration doing to improve the lives of the working class? Not just saying, but accomplishing? There are some small wins they've done, even if they're a far cry from what was promised in 2020. Focus on that. The few people that got or are getting student loan forgiveness. The baby steps towards making medicine affordable. The acknowledgement that man-made climate change is real.

"Vote for us or else!" is not inspiring.

Yeah, there are some leftists that try drawing the line at silly points like "oh I won't vote for someone who supports genocide" but really what's the big deal? Genocides happen, I think they're kind of fun sounding. I'm thinking about moving to Israel and helping the IDF finish their extermination of the barbaric "human animals"/natives that have infested their holy land. Biden has self-identified as a Zionist many times before, and I think that's a beautiful thing. I bet he'd take up arms with me against the parasites if he was still fully sentient. He's definitely trying his best as president to help them finish cleaning up the trash.

Oh, and yeah only Trump is a fascist. None of the above sounds anything like fascism, don't worry.

/s

Biden is actively supporting Nazi style Genocide right now.

But not the figurative one. Literal Nazi Genocide.

Exactly.

Imagine if Coca-Cola tried to shame or guilt people into buying Coca-Cola.

How would that work out.

The guilt tripping and shaming is going to backfire.

To win, you have to inspire people to actually want to vote for you.

Otherwise, they just might not even bother showing up.

Problem is they know exactly what the people want (socialized healthcare, corporations to be held accountable for their actions, to break up monopolies, affordable housing, seriously address climate change, safe food and water, not supporting genocide) only problem is vested interests don't want that. So the Dems need to figure out how to balance those two things by appeasing the powerful interest and paying lip service to the voters.

They know what we need and want they just never have had a supermajority for more than 10 minutes. Our stupid ass elections are always on the razors edge lately so we have around 3 asshole Republicans pretending to be Democrats Democrats in the Senate that just squash anything that would benefit us at the expense of more wealth hoarding at the top.

Listen to Democrats running and listen to Republicans running, only one of those groups rely on "hate, hate, hate, be afraid, hate, those people are different and I'll stop them!"

.... that's the Republican playbook. Try again.

He's gonna die sooner than later. While I don't disagree that the evangelical fascist movement will continue, they sure have latched onto Trump hard. Who's your bet for his eventual replacement? Has to be someone with a big media reach with a history of pandering hard to that audience. No need to be qualified for the position. Alex Jones, maybe? Or is he old news/dead meat at this point?

But what is he doing, then? He could be taking a firm line against the genocide in Palestine, but instead he is giving public and material support to the perpetrators. He could be rallying the electorate by using the "bully pulpit" to pressure congress with popular policies the public wants. He doesn't do that kind of thing, because they are antithetical to his neoliberal politics. He (and those around him) would rather lose to the right than concede anything to the working class.

Most people understand that the potus is largely a figurehead, but Biden isn't even doing that right. Don't keep blaming the electorate when the problem is with the shitty fucking leadership.

That's common, there's too many people who think the President can control gas prices or fix things by waving a magic wand...

It's a fiction the Right pushes so that Republican get the thanks for when things go right and Democrats get the blame when things go wrong.

It's telling that you left Gaza out of your comment. That is the #1 reason this president is facing a loss. If he would stop sending arms today, he would win in a landslide. You disingenuous shill. Edit: I was wrong to insult OP.

I mean I'm definitely more on the progressive side and voted for Biden last time and I've still never stopped being critical of him or any other Democrat I voted for. That's how democracy thrives after all.

I don't want and will not settle for becoming like a Republican where I never question or criticize the person I voted for, even if it's Bernie.

after the election I'm going to actively criticize everything about the Democratic party I can so that we have a chance to get a progressive candidate in 2028.

That's how it's supposed to happen.

You won't get the option if the other side wins.

This is a very fair approach. Stop Fascism now, then right after the vote is won, start pushing the party Left.

I agree that we need more than 3 choices, but I disagree with you on being more progressive. Biden has been the most progressive democrat that I could remember.

If given the choice, between Donald Trump and a random citizen, I would roll the dice.

Biden is not doing anything by himself and neither is the fat orange.

That is a big part of the problem. If Biden's camp was full of Green New Deal Dems and peaceniks and Justice Party economic reformers, I'd have a lot easier time supporting him.

Instead, he's surrounded himself with corporate flacks, banksters, MIC ghouls, and evangelicals, hoping to peel off the moderate Republican wing of the conservative party one more time.

The house and senate are the major string pulling yoyos in everything that comes out of washington

I would say that the donors are at the end of the strings, while House and Senate simply dance to their tunes. And when you consider how much influence a guy like Sam Bankman Fried had with "blue state" senators like Gillibrand and senior white house advisers like Steve Ricchetti, I gotta say I'm not thrilled to see the direction this party went in his first four years.

Even before you get to the Palestinian Genocide or the continued US blockade of Cuban ports or the migrant prisons lining the US border or the rapid domestic increase in carbon emissions under a President who claimed to acknowledge climate change, it seems like liberals cannot bring themselves to see the naked mismanagement, graft, and cowardice of the current President.

Boeing airliners are literally falling out of the sky and Biden's FAA is still dragging its heels, for fear of upsetting one of the nation's most well-financed lobbying teams. No federal prosecution of the Trump Administration is scheduled to move forward before November.

By any standard, this Presidency has been a failure.

it really is exhausting, isn't it?

My God, this. I keep wondering what would happen if they stopped yelling at us and tried yelling at Biden to course correct instead. It's hard at times not to think that they don't actually want positive change, which I know isn't true, it's just that their actions sure seem that way

We care a whole lot about not having another Trump presidency and unfortunately many here don't seem to have figured out how first past the post voting works yet.

Get wrecked. If you don't want to hear opinions in a politics sublemmy, don't visit a politics sublemmy. Also, regarding opinions: just like assholes, everyone has one, they think theirs is the best, but they all stink.

There are a lot of reasons things are the way they are - the fucked up way we elect a president, the fucked up way we count the votes, the fucked up way we apportion representatives - but the bottom line is that our government is broken and we're not going to get actual representation out of it.

So unless progressives are going to move the red states en masse to actually change things, we need to get used to being an unrepresented minority, ruled by a different minority that has more land.

It’s a goddamn shame in what’s supposed to be a representative democracy that there are so many calls for those who supposedly should be the ones represented to change their views to conform with those who represent them and not the other way around.

Indeed there is. And I agree, we need changes to this system. But there are smart ways to do it, and there are dumb ways to do it. Allowing an authoratarian jerk in who will run roughshod over our rights and maybe even take away our vote entirely, causing untold pain to people you claim to support, is the dumbest and cruellest way of all. If you're cool with that, you do you, but understand, I'm not going to be quiet about the choice you just made. It's how we got Bush-43, and how we got Trump the first time around.

It’s those who stand to be horrifically harmed by Biden’s opponent who must swallow their morality and vote for monsters lest more harm come to them later on.

Biden isn't a monster. Netanyahu is the monster slaughtering people in Gaza, and I've already written a whole missive on why Biden aids Israel while Netanyahu does genocide, so I won't repeat it here. Biden IS squishy, and believe me, if I could get a more progressive candidate, I would take him or her in a heartbeat, but we're not there yet. Not in a country where only 26% of the population willingly identifies themselves as Liberal and 74% says "no, not that." I'm not saying we'll never get there, but it takes hard work and dedication, like what Team Pepe has done to convert Team Red into itself. Surely, you folks on Team Green aren't gonna let Team Pepe beat you at the 'convert major party to our mirror' game, are you? They have a rule over on Team Pepe: "Vote the Conservative in the Primary and the Republican in the General." That rule works because they have leverage over even squishy Republicans that they don't over Democrats. It works the same way over here. Biden is being pulled Left by angry voters, articulating that Netanyahu is risking support by attacking innocents unjustly. Pro-Tip: Trump's voters want ALL the Muslims subjugated or slain, so he'll face no such pressure. In fact, he'll double down on supplying Israel because he knows that pisses you off and his main goal is to own the libs. So even by your 'genocide' argument, the only vote you have is Biden, to keep Trump out of office. Keep that in mind.

Edit: Brain Fart. Voting Biden won't put Trump in office, thank god.

OK. Biden doesn't support genocide. No, really, he doesn't. He supports Israel's right to exist, for sure, and he sure wants to ensure that the 2000+ people murdered and 200+ people kidnapped last October get justice, but he doesn't support genocide. Enjoy your limbo.

It's Russian/Republican Propaganda that he does support genocide because he continues funding Israel, pushed by dishonest assholes who benefit from us being divided and uninformed knee-jerk-reactionary useful idiots that push that propaganda. Biden has said repeatedly that Israel's continued indiscriminate attacks on Gaza make it harder for him to justify continued aid. But can he stop the aid? Let's think about this RATIONALLY for a moment.

Suppose the US just says "Well, fuck you, Israel, you're on your own." What happens next? Here's some ideas:

• Israel screams betrayal at the United States, saying that we are enabling a genocide that the Arabs have tried to push on Israel since its very founding in 1947, then again in 1967, and again in 1973.
• Iran launches a bigger attack at Israel, and starts another war similar to the Israeli War of Independence, Six-Days War, and Yom Kippur War, giving some truth to the accusations.
• Russia pushes the meme that Antisemitic Lefties in the US pushed Biden to abandon Israel. It's a lie, but Russia is GOOD at making lies stick.
• American Jews, pretty faithful Democrats now, buy the notion that the Left abandoned them and become Conservative. Don't say it can't happen. It's happening in Israel right now.
• Israel, abandoned by the US, approaches Russia, who they have good relations with. Russia asks for a few of Israel's 36 F-35s, and Israel as a final Fuck You to America hands the planes over. Russia gets access to our stealth fighter technology, manages to weaken America's standing in the world, and finds a new source of money for their oil reserves to fund their war on Ukraine more, all at the same time.
• Particularly scary, Israel, beset on all sides and feeling abandoned, decides to nuke Iran. Pakistan, who is known to be nuclear armed, and Iran, who might have a few test bombs of their own, retaliate, prompting a nuclear firestorm and long-lasting aftermath that makes the Middle East a hellhole to live in, and possibly affects the entire global climate.
• That nuclear exchange might prompt a global nuclear war with how much of a hair-trigger the world is on right now. Remember, kids, Global Thermonuclear War is a strange game, and the winning move is not to play!

I'm not saying all of these are going to happen, or even most of them, but it would SURE serve Putin's interests if there's a falling out between the actual authoritarian Netanyahu and the leader of the left-most party in the USA, driving Netanuyahu into fellow-authoritarian Putin's arms! It'd also be quite a feather in Trump's cap if Biden abandons Israel, loses enough of the US Jewish vote (in addition to the rabble-raisers here in the US who swear they won't vote for Biden even if he does stop funding Israel because once a Genocider always a Genocider...) that he loses the election to Trump, and then Trump gets to restart the funding and say "See, Democrats are the real antisemites! Pay no attention to the picture of a cartoon frog dressed up as me gassing prevalent US Jews and Liberals from 8 years ago, that's a lie..."

So. Once again. Limbo away. Just be fucking truthful about it.

Trump is arguably more responsive to public opinion. Look how he's flip-flopped on abortion. He might not have a conscience, but he's politically aware enough to know that the curtailment of women's rights is unpopular. He's acknowledged that Gaza is a bad look. Biden seems oblivious to public opinion, on the otherhand, and seems determined to be a hand maiden to genocide if it costs him reelection.

You know, I would have agreed wholeheartedly six months ago. But Biden managed to find a way to make me do a double take.

Because the average voter will see the words 'progressive coalition' and entirely dismiss it because they have no concept of that.

Out of curiosity, I took a look at ranked choice voting in the states.

A funny thing happens when you overlay the map of ranked choice by state on top of red vs blue states...

Have you? For someone who likes to make it sound like one person can make those changes all happen I would have expected you to accomplish a lot more.

This is part of why I'm seriously considering just not voting for president this year. They talk about an existential threat but they've done nothing to stop it and they repeatedly get caught boosting trump allies so they can campaign against the bogeyman.

They would never do that. Then you wouldn't vote Democrat anymore.

"I'm rich and white, so Accelerationism isn't going to negatively impact ME, just those vulnerable sacrificial pawns known as minorities, poor people, the disabled, and the LGBTQ+" - Tankies

I actually got kicked out of my local Socialist Party USA chapter for pointing this out. Leader of it claimed it was because I was a "Rape Apologist" to discourage allies I had in the party from speaking to me.

The leader was a white cishet who was a higher up for a local cable company, ironically enough his workers actually went on strike under his leadership.

Eh I was thinking of leaving anyway, my proposals for "Actually do something on the municipal level to benefit the local community and win people to our side." kept getting shot down in favor of "Get everyone to vote for a nutjob third party for President, yes, that green party wacko who keeps going to bat for curing autism with crystals and transphobic dogwhistles!" and every other discussion was "China good actually!"

Honestly I had my suspicions about the guy when he disavowed Bernie for, get this, "Refusing to advocate for violence against police officers in recent campaign speech" (As if that was a realistic expectation, imagine if Bernie had done that. Guy would have left the podium in cuffs), dude was a total nutcase.

I think the 100k that voted 'uncommitted' in the Michigan primary shows that there is a level of discontent with the current administration. Now I would hope that those who made that protest vote, which in my primary here I also made that same type of vote, would still vote for Biden and not vote for a Nazi or sit the vote out but let's be real, Democrats aren't like Republicans where they will almost always vote for the hard 'R'.

So I'm my opinion, it's a valid concern, maybe not a huge one but given how stupid our electoral system is, it's still a valid concern.

There is a struggle among people who say that to understand, the majority voting Biden aren't voting his policies. They're voting against full blown fascism.

It's completely absurd to me that people can look at the choice between a president who is disappointing but ultimately status quo and fucking "I just want to be a dictator on day one" Hitler-lite and just shrug like one isn't going to be the end of this nation as we know it and an active danger for several demographics.

Like we get it. You don't like genocide Joe. Do you think throwing your vote away by not voting or voting your favorite green candidate is going to stop anyone who votes red from foaming at the mouth over the chance at eliminating any possibility of progress here?