The movement to swear off men: No sex. No dating. No marriage. No children.
The movement to swear off men: No sex. No dating. No marriage. No children.
In the hours following former President Donald Trump’s election victory, Google searches related to 4B — a fringe South Korean feminist movement that made a name for itself in the mid to late 2010s — surged in the United States.
It's their body and their choice. Simple as that.
It should be at least.
Judging from all the hurt feelings and angry defensiveness I'm seeing in this thread this might be an extremely effective form of protest. Fragile toxic masculinity is so predictable.
As a dominatrix- yes, chastity tends to yield very responsive subs.
Now that's someone I'd vote for!
It's tiering all these boys who "I don't want to" behave.
Bros here think they're making solid points, but all I hear is "wah wah wah". You hashtag notAllMen out there with dry stalks need to do a better job of challenging the misogynistic attitudes of your peers.
extremely effective form of protest
...i honestly dont think it's going to achieve anything and it certainly won't undo the election result
I mean you could go the opposite route and do a FWB style approach to votes in the next election. If withholding sex is the stick, what's the carrot? Offering sex?
A decent proportion of votes for trump were protest votes and a disproportionate amount were young men. Why not invest the effort in understanding why it is they feel that the Republican party offers them something that the democratic party does not?
Wow, what an amazing ally to women you are. You are totally willing to just use our bodies and vaginas for your own goals, just like that, huh?
Well, what's stopping you? You have two holes and two hands, presumably. Get to work buying votes. Plenty of conservative men like men. Download Grinder and you can start tonight. Stay safe.
Which ironically is a top climate change helper. One silicon valley baby is worth half a damn African village in terms of carbon footprint.
It's the affluent, highly-educated, well-off women (by world standards) who have the biggest effect by having fewer children.
Plus, a whole category of nazi bullshut dodged, the original point.
Whatever "power that be" is attacking all the pillars that uphold good democratic societies. It started with Government moved to Science then Medicine, and Media, it attacked trust in Police and Courts. It has been systematic.
I knew relationships between men and women should be in there since it is such a major part of keeping a society running but I never knew how it would get attacked. Honestly never thought it could. Lately its been obvious reading some places online like where the whole idea of marriage is treated like a dessert and where people gather to describe every ick imaginable while demanding that its members deserve only the best most succulent desserts.
There's a total break down of society and I don't think its just natural. I fully believe there's some paradigm shift going on and this is all the groundwork for it.
I thought this was common knowledge that the elites waged a culture war after occupy Wall Street.
What is unfortunate is that their strategy sinks the very ship they sit on top of.
They were saying it out loud years before that.
it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning
- Warren Buffet, 2006
I dunno about it being unnatural. It's in our nature to destroy ourselves. [/Arnie accent] But I don't doubt that there are powers stoking that fire, hoping that if they accelerate collapse in a particular way, they can come out on top. Eat the most futures, and you may prolong your present. [Insert Saturn Devouring His Son]
A message to my fellow guys: if you dislike this, guess what: it's real easy to stop being the target of it. All you have to do is quit being a misogynistic, authoritarian piece of shit.
Yeah honestly as a guy I'm all for it. I absolutely do not blame women who do not want to have sex when they're treated like 2nd class citizens who's bodies are controlled by old, creepy men in Congress.
For real, it’s astounding(not really) how much women appreciate not being treated and viewed like they are things to be owned and controlled
This isn't targeted at just the shitty dudes. It's no sex with any dudes period until they get their rights back.
I don't see the difference. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you, whatever the reason may be, then you accept that decision and move on. The inability to accept that would be a form of misogyny in my books. This may not be what was meant by the comment you responded to, but I interpret as: stop being misogynistic, not because that'll make women want to have sex with you (though it might), but because it's not your place to unilaterally decide who should have sex with you.
Respectfully, this isn't on dudes.
Four and eight years ago young men overwhelmingly supported Bernie Sanders, and they were ridiculed for it. Dems even made up an epithet for it: Bernie Bros.
The perspective you're showing in this reply is why Republicans won. You can't make it very clear you don't want young men to vote for you and then be surprised when they don't.
I don't really get this because anyone participating in this is left enough that they probably wouldn't want to date a misogynistic, right wing men.
Maybe I am too man to understand but hoping to get a better perspective.
Edit: After thinking about this I could see how the movement could help encourage woman out of these toxic relationships and empower them to live without a man.
Yeah, my niece, who is generally a worldly, progressive person, was talking about this guy whom she's not ready to call 'boyfriend' yet, and part of that description was, "he's, like, super into Hitler."
Doesn't that seem like kind of a red flag? ??
My wife accidentally dated a white supremacist before we met. She’s not even white. She found out like six months into their relationship, when she stumbled upon a tumblr post about white power dogwhistles and immediately recognized like four of his most prominent tattoos. He even got one of them after they had started dating.
She initially dismissed it as a coincidence, until she saw the same tats on a lot of his friends. Some women will try to excuse a lot of red flags if they’re not directed at her specifically.
Your niece desperately needs an intervention.
😬😬😬😬😬 boy, what???
The last woman I dated was extremely progressive but dated a pretty misogynistic dude before me and then ended up cheating on and ghosting me for a Maga dude.
Who cares - go for it?
With your username, I would think you'd be more enthusiastic and cheering them on lol
"Lysistrata" is a 2400 year-old play about the women of Greece ending the Peloponnesian Wars by withholding sex.
If it's good for the Greeks...
As a man, I’m support this movement. Mainly because we don’t need more people on this crowded miserable planet. 7 billions is more than enough, preferably 3-4 billions.
Unfortunately it's 8 billion right now.
We’re fucked.
Lmao all we need to do is deny men any meaningful relationships, that'll deradicalize them for sure
I would love to hear other opinions. If you think that ostracizing the specific demographic that you needed for this election is a good idea, please let me know. Personally, I think it's incredibly stupid. If the only women that a guy is able to get the time of day from are conservatives, I think that's gonna make guys more open to conservatism.
Because people refuse to read the article, it says
The idea behind the movement is individual resistance against what it defines as a conservative political environment and the corrosion of reproductive rights.
This is explicitly a movement attempting to affect political change, at least according to the article that we're discussing. I understand and support swearing off relationships for the sake of protecting yourself, but that is not the argument that the article is making.
During Trump's last presidency a friend of mine told a guy who was making disgusting comments towards her to fuck off. You know what he did? He punched her in the face and broke her jaw. She needed surgery.
He got maybe a few weeks in jail and since he's unemployed suing him for the medical costs was fruitless. This was in a blue state too.
Shit's fucked up and I don't know how else to help people understand that women are genuinely afraid of men for a reason. I'm sorry if that hurts some genuinely good dudes feelings out there. It's not their fault some percentage of men act like feral animals and pull shit like this.
Then you have trump encouraging these types and it's a really fucked up situation. All because some grown ass men with the self control of an infant can't function in society without hurting people and need misogyny and racism to bolster their tiny egos because it's the only hierarchy in which they aren't on the bottom....since they've never accomplished anything worthwhile in their lives.
These violent men are often the same ones who raise their sons "not to be sissies" and teach them to repress their emotions because "crying is for girls." That's emotional abuse at best. There's probably a lot of physical abuse accompanying that too.
Anyway, sorry about the length of this. My point is that the types of men who hurt women are often the same ones who abuse their sons and perpetuate the mental health crisis among young men which I'm sure contributes to the high suicide rates among young men.
I really wish people could understand we're fighting the same enemy.
Yes, let’s generalize all men because of that fuckhead, or the few fuckheads out there. Meanwhile, the left wing femcels die out leaving conservatives behind. Cool strategy.
I don't think it's different enough from the norm to effect anything. Do you think men will even notice?
Well no, obviously. This movement has members numbering in the thousands. There may be two people in my city actually trying to live by it
Back when the majority of women available to date were leftwing, men didn’t get more leftwing. It didn’t happen. Women in the youngest voting demographic on exit polls were something like 61% voted for Kamala, whereas the men it was 45%. If your theory was right (and not just an excuse to blame women for men’s abuse), those numbers would be equal. Men like power over others, enforcement of rules, and feel entitled to the patriarchy and that's why conservative movements appeal to them as they get older.
No, if my theory is right, then we would see a rightward shift among men as they lose contact with left-leaning women. We won't know for sure that I'm right until a) this movement becomes widespread and b) fewer than 45% of men vote for the next democrat. I'm not blaming women for anything. I'm saying that this would be an ineffective political strategy. Nothing more, nothing less.
that’ll deradicalize them for sure
I can assure you that this won't "deradicalize" me. But then again, you don't seem to understand what that term means, so you probably don't understand why.
The thing people who didn't read the article are missing: This doesn't apply to all men, just shitty men. Which yeah, if you're a dude who wants to get laid don't be shitty.
This movement explicitly applies to all men. I would know, I read the article to make sure it didn't specify conservative men. I also checked the Wikipedia article, which also doesn't specify anything about conservative men. It's a protest against a whole societal problem, and it calls for, specifically,
No sex.
No dating.
No marrying men.
No children.
Far too many people are lumping in all men in discussions around the election.
It was obviously their fault, to be fair. /s
Gen-X men got him elected. As a white man in his 40s, I’m disgusted. After moving out of the city, I just can’t converse with most of the white men my age. The majority of my friends are now younger than me or POC.
It's my understanding that a lot of Gen-Z men backed Trump as well. Can't say I understand the appeal he has to the younger crowd.
They were split 47/49 Trump.
The appeal was that Harris represented a status quo that has people working 2-3 jobs for the privilege of being unable to afford living in the US, and for Gen Z'ers, it also meant a status quo that has them permanently indebted.
And she spent two months insisting that people should be joyful about it. I said it back in June. Trump could win because he doesn't have to lie about how hard Biden's presidency has affected the middle class and the poor, and people who don't like him won't care about his social policies because he will represent the candidate of change.
Also, don't come at me. I voted Green in a deep red state.
Can’t say I understand the appeal he has to the younger crowd
Perhaps some introspection is in order. If feminists can't figure out how to coexist with others, without turning everything into a battle, then they're ultimately going to prove to the world that they have no business at all being anywhere near power. Frankly, women have been given a great deal of autonomy in western civilization recently, and have set themselves to the task of burning everything down. It's not at all a good look, and how the younger generation sees you should be a wake up call.
Do you have a citation for this? Maybe it’s just the circles I run in, but I don’t know any gen-x men who voted for Trump.
White people 45-64 accounted for 25% of the votes. 62% of them voted for Trump.
Men 45-64 was the leading demographic for age by gender at 60%.
Gen-X men got him elected.
Like all things Gen-X, there aren't enough of us for negative or positive change. In 2022 only 23% were Gen-X (down 3% from 2012), and assuming equal split on gender, that would be about 11.5% men, and I know for sure 100% of Gen-X men DID NOT vote for trump. For the sake of your argument lets say 70% of those men did thats only 8% of the vote. source
I don't think its a supportable statement to say that this specific 8% are the reason trump was elected without ignoring the other 45% of the electorate.
Careful. The Trad Wives were already planning on out competing progressives for their upcoming... "culture war". We risk Idiocracy scenario.
I think we're way past idiocracy
Wait I'm confused, so the trad wives are going to slut it up to counteract the protest?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZxWjMJJzag
They're not going to "slut it up". They're going to make babies with their husbands non stop because they think it's their GOD given purpose to create soldiers for their holy war.
Breeders
Sorry about the fucking idiots. Thanks for not fucking the idiots
More women voted for Harris, but there was still a giant number of women who voted for Trump. The women who voted for him won't do this and the women who didn't vote for him wouldn't have dated been who did anyway.
You're really missing the point if you think this is about who a man voted for, and not about a woman not wanting to risk her life because any fuckwad stealthed her or even accidentally got her pregnant. Misogyny and sexual crimes do not follow party lines, they are pervasive throughout society, and the fewer choices women have, the more we will protect ourselves.
Hey, I'm completely on board with the fight. I 100% believe no one but the person and their doctor should be involved in any healthcare decisions, and I'm an advocate for women. I just think that this particular approach will accomplish nothing. The only people it will impact are the people who are already like-minded.
I understand the sentiment, but this is intrinsically self-defeating if at most one half of the female population participates while the other half if quickly drifting towards the trad-wife high birth rate shit.
It is just math.
Did you actually think half of the female pop wants to be a trad wife? Only 37% of young adult women voted for Trump for instance. 76% of 25-54 year old women work. 88% of women believe abortion should be legal. Trad wives are an internet meme that has single digit support among young women.
https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx
Think about it long term though. If trad wives have lots of children and all other women don’t, the next generation will be over-represented by the children of trad wives. Over a long enough time scale I think trad wife like subcultures will take over.
Think about it in evolutionary terms. If a mutation shows up that dramatically lowers fertility rate it will be heavily selected against unless it somehow confers an even greater fitness advantage in other areas.
Here we’re dealing with cultural changes associated with the invention of birth control and a massive liberalization of society. These have caused fertility to plummet but don’t really confer much of a fitness advantage (most of the advantage is due to modern medicine which trad wives also have access to). Since culture is pretty strongly heritable (sometimes even more strongly than individual genes, which might only be passed down 50% of the time if only one parent has the gene) we could see a societal takeover by trad wives over the next few centuries.
If I had thought that, using the words "quickly drifting towards" would have really made no sense. But I still see them in my original comment.
I don't expect this to go anywhere, but wouldn't limiting the dating pool create a more competitive market for men?
If that is a good thing, that I don't know
This is kind of how Idiocracy starts.
I feel like this is only really a lever that can be tweaked on the subset of American men who didn't vote or voted for Trump and are in a relationship with a woman who is part of this movement. Which I can't believe is very large.
This is not putting the burden on women of this movement but it will inevitably be used in fascist talking points about how the "libruls are brainwashing women to not have sex with you", further propaganda that will go into radicalizing young men.
So? The women will carry on, as they always have.
If I were a cis woman, I also wouldn't want to risk pregnancy by being with a cis man. Certainly not in a country where being pregnant is increasingly more dangerous to one's life.
Also for my trans homies - remember that HRT is not birth control.
Guess what? Women voted against women's rights and voted according to how their man said to vote.
I'm all for women doing this, I'm just worried it'll literally be the beginning of Idiocracy.
Idiocracy would be a significant upgrade from our current predicament.
This will just be used as a talking point for the right. Although I will say I'm reluctant to believe that anyone is really doing this in any kind of significant number.
I'm sure that's what they thought in South Korea too.
I for one think it's a fantastic idea. Starve the beast of more slaves.
It just seems miserable :( don't fuck the shitheads, absolutely, but don't deprive yourself of a normal life to try and beat someone who won't care.
Don't have kids though - fully with everyone on that. Best for everyone, especially the kids.
Not all men backed the ugliness. (To lump them altogether is sexist.) The ones who didn’t should be supported.
I'm sure explaining not all men to them will turn this whole thing around.
I’m sure pulling an Idiocracy will turn this whole thing around.
See how useful that is?
Please look up why "not all men" is a silly point to make.
wHy WON't ThESE Women wHO ARe beIng oppRESSeD And HAVInG tHEir rIghts erodeD sUPPort mEn LIke Me WHo aRE tHe rEaL VIcTImS aNd CleArlY so syMPaTHETic tO THEIR cAUSE???!111122345
You are precisely the kind of insidious creep we want to avoid.
Who said women aren't being oppressed? Who said that men are being oppressed? Who said I was a man?
Sorry if you've been hurt, but that is no excuse for sexism. To be clear: lumping all men into a group is sexism. Grouping all people by some factor that is beyond their control is prejudice. It's really as simple as that. Again, I'm sorry if you've been hurt, but that's no excuse for that response.
To repeat: the reality is that not all men back the ugliness that Trump and his supporters promote. To claim otherwise is to rob yourself of allies. It is self defeating.
When did they say that men are the real victims
4B? Isn't this just Lysistrata?
As we always say on my screenwriting podcast, there are no new stories.
I've heard there are only two stories:
- A hero goes on a journey
- A stranger comes to town
Looks like a lot of places followed along
You do you... but wouldn't it be more effective if women went on a general strike?
No. This idea has worked in other places.
Think of it as a genital strike.
Not mutually exclusive
Go for a double-kill - enter a committed relationship with a teddy bear. Bonus points for a marriage ceremony.
Far left women punish far left men basically?
Yes friends.
you know, there's a word for punishing a large group of people for the actions of a few
Gee, I guess you all should have really done the work to verbally address all the shitty lockerroom talk and misogyny you'd hear. It's almost like when you say absolutely nothing, including while your friends catcall, verbally abuse us, or even just say misogynistic stuff, you get lumped in with them. Guess you should have tried harder to teach them how to not be abusive to women, like how ypu taught each other your favorite sports teams and players.
Because there was time for that conversation, wasn't there? But no time to talk about respecting women or how weird violence towards women has gotten.
But don't worry, you guys will gets lots of time and practice now.
Excuse me? I, like any self respecting man, speak up when I see someone who has no business calling themselves a human being, let alone calling themselves a man, disrespecting a woman, and if that fails to get them to stop, punch them in the face.
Thank you, however, for making that assumption and providing an example to demonstrate my point.
How few? Like 70%? Maybe you can wet your choad with your tears.
I see you've failed to get a grasp of what I meant.
Shit like this is what got trump elected
Yeah, those women and their checks notes "sexual autonomy". Once rape is legalized, I'm sure the incels and Tate fans will finally accept a Woman president.
But what if you want a nice bit of cock? Seems like a bit of a crap movement.
"he's out of line but he's right"
I'm sure every member of the movement will follow to their own extend. Some that are 100% on board might be already in a relationship that it's fulfilling and with kids and won't just divorce.
Others will be strict, some will reject if they fell any "red had", and others will have it on their own terms.
The reaction on this thread shows that the oversimplification and the victomism of some will make it look like an extinction level event.
Seems like a bit of a crap movement.
Your mother said the same right before you were born.
Doesn't really make any sense mate.
I did actually just do a banging shit though.
We have to stop the shift of men to the right and this can’t help
It’s not on women to fix men.
If the only thing keeping you from drifting to the right is getting your dick wet then you need more training.
It'll help lol. Those fuckbois won't be able to extend their bloodlines. This is just darwinism at work.
No, no, and yep. It super won't help progressive people, these fuckbois will be able to extend their bloodlines by having kids with conservative women, and this will naturally select against progressives
You do know that nearly half of women voted for Trump, yeah?
Anyone who would let this shift them right is a shit person to begin with. We don't want them. Enabling this selfishness is why we are in this mess.
We really, really should want them. Not having them is why Trump got elected
No, no, I'm sure being even MORE insufferable and obnoxious is the solution.