If I find out you voted for Trump in 2016, I will judge you but I could forgive you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2020, I will judge you and will have a hard time forgiving you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2024, you're dead to me. Friend, family, doesn't matter.
I wish I could say the same but I can't bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He's let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone's coming out of I'm within earshot... No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here's a quote saying so from the 90s.
I've thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I'm going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it's bad whether he likes it or not.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don't regret it to this day. I don't believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I'm not really willing to compromise certain morals.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn't have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he'd have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he'd have gone to the dark side. There's a real chance I wouldn't be talking to him right now if he did. I'm glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.
I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.
Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it's really nothing for me to do so as well.
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It's why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don't think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
That's fair...
I just feel like after a public rapist becomes president, twice, there's no hope for Americans. It really is hopeless by now.
child rapist, Kate was 12
The DOJ had four years to prosecute him under Biden and they dragged their heels.
The Southern District of New York had ample reason and opportunity to prosecute him as a mobbed to businessman in the '00s and '10s, but he was friends with the mayor so they didn't.
The Clintons certainly knew about Epstein in the 90s and could have busted that whole thing up 30 years ago. But the donations were too sweet, so they didn't.
Trump is a creature of consequences.
Think about it this way, if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
It is accepted and now normalized. If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
The problem for me is I grew up in a country that I thought was beyond that. I was apparently wrong.
If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
This is why I hate capitalism so much. Extreme power disparity is the heart of tyranny and the extreme disparities in wealth that capitalism creates only leads to extreme disparities in political power.
I fear that the US went past a breaking point and that the US will fully be an oligarchy after Trump is done
I refuse to think about it that way lol. Quantity does not equal acceptance for me. We have to hold our countries' representatives to a higher standard than being outright criminals, guilty of many, serious offenses. If there are only a handful of politicians left after such a sift, then so be it.
Thank God I'm not in the USA. But it's not like this doesn't fuck over the rest of the world too.
if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
I've heard arguments to the effect that politicians who are too clean simply don't succeed, because people don't want to give you big campaign checks unless they have Compromat on you.
So you get invited to the Eyes Wide Shut party, your rich friends catalog your debauchery, and this is what keeps you loyal.
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Just in case to clarify, I'm not defending child rapists who most surely did commit the crime in question, just saying it's a dangerous concept.
Perhaps they'll fragment after he dies? A lot of dictatorships don't survive the death of the supreme leader
You should already be hopeless considering the current administration is aiding genocide.
Still at it... She lost, dude. Go away.
Yes, we were already hopeless, but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide, while the other three were a guarantee of not only the complete elimination of the Palestinian people, but the expansion into a much larger conflict across the Middle East and possibly the world.
I hope that moral superiority makes you feel better when you see the what the difference between the Democrats and Republicans in Gaza (and beyond) will be. Assuming you actually give a shit.
They should, yes. (I'm not American.)
they had every right to be frustrated with how things are, but this will not fix anything and they will find out very quickly. its a shame.
The problem with simply being "frustrated" about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive. You have to channel it into something. If that "something" is fucking fascism, you're an evil person without morals. So while I understand how it happens I cannot absolve people of the crime of voting for an open fascist.
The problem with simply being "frustrated" about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive.
In this case it is not just unproductive, it's destructive. American voters, especially those who voted for Biden last time chose to stay at home.
Biden administration was stumbling so the voters gave the keys to someone who's going to cut off both legs.
they will find out very quickly
If they were going to realize it, they would've realized it after the first Trump term (and 2020 especially). They'll continue to eat up lies that blame whatever marginalized group they're hating that day.
The shame is that they won't care. These people will just find another scapegoat and punt the ball down the line.
This tweet assumes people care about OPs opinion, or histories opinion. It's a toothless threat trying to invoke some Boogeyman of future retribution. Anyone who voted for Trump is going to be doing the Jennifer Lawrence "ok" reaction to this.
I've family that voted for Trump. Had plans on spending Thanksgiving there. Told them I'm not coming, and told them why. Explained that I'll be happy to apologize if the next four years goes well. Otherwise, I'm holding them accountable. I love them, but I will not associate with them.
I'm done with the "they're family, you have to accept them." Bullshit.
I warned my wife if her dad makes the mistake of showing his bitch ass face to me again he's dead, she was smart enough to already know
Fucker already literally threatened my life twice before on top of all the other horrid shit he's done, and now he knows hes not allowed near his favorite daughter or he's pig food
And should things turn around and the overwhelming consensus somehow turns against Trump (seems highly unlikely currently), people will just lie about having supported him.
So why bother having you're own morals and opinions, is what you're saying.
No thanks.
Less people voted Trump in 2024 than in 2020. It is not that Trump won, it is that Biden/Harris lost hard.
Trump: 74 Mio. in 2020, 73 Mio. in 2024
Biden/Harris: 81 Mio. in 2020, 69 Mio. in 2024
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
No. It is that Trump won with the support of over 70 million Americans. People are responsible for their choices. jfc
Everyone saying Trumps totals didn't change, yes, but their composition absolutely did change. But even that is besides the point. Even if they staged exactly the same, that's still really fucking problematic and its absurd to give these people cover for being shitasses.
Trump didnt gain or loose many voters.
Biden/Harris lost a lot of voters.
So really the change between 2020 and 2024 is not a popularity increase for Trump, but a huge popularity loss for Biden/Harris.
Now the question is, how did Biden/Harris manage to be so unpopular, that 12 million people decided to rather risk Trump winning, than vote for them again?
It's the same group voting trump, nothing changed there, but what did change I wonder....
I'd really like to have 100 randomly chosen Trump voters in a room and interview them to find out how knowledgeable they are about Trump, about his policies, about his first term, about the criminal cases, etc.
My guess is that at least 90% of them are brainwashed. I'm sure there are some that are completely aware of his record and are either single issue voters who are voting only on abortion. Some may be multi-millionaires who are voting just for lower taxes and don't care about anything else. But, anybody who voted for him because of inflation / the economy has no idea what they're talking about. Inflation was a worldwide problem and Trump's policies made / will make it worse. Anybody who voted for him because he's going to "fix immigration" has no idea what they're doing because his policies are incoherent and will never work. Anybody who voted for him because of Gaza is an absolute moron because he's just going to encourage the genocide.
I see these videos on tiktok. You would think it was fun but it's kinda like talking to a brick. There is no logic.
Trump and his fascists deserve most of the blame, but I fear that liberals won't learn from this. Realpolitik is bullshit. When you promise to help people but then sell us out to lobbyists and the donor class decade after decade after decade, then people lose all faith in institutions. Facts don't matter because those facts were used to gaslight time and time again.
What you see on TikTok are the most entertaining videos. I have no idea if they have to cut out 2% of the videos because they're not entertaining, or 50% or 98%.
You're just pitching a story the NYT and the WaPo run regularly. "I heard it on a podcast, I heard it on FOX News, I heard it at church". That's the response you get.
Don't trust liberals to give you the news. Only trust conservatives. Viola! Now you'll have a strong Republican dogma.
Viola?
I judge you for your literal inability to detect hostility and scams.
We have SO MUCH EVIDENCE that Trump is a Russian asset who Russia has Kompromat on (see American Kompromat by Unger). We are at war with Russia and previously were at war with them for decades. And we don't think Putin wants revenge? Look at what happened to Navalny.
Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts. Almost as if he's a foreign fucking asset harming the US as much as possible in a proxy war. He has a history of violence, abuse, and grifting. How can people be so naive? Literal wolf in wolf's clothing with neon signs saying "I'm a wolf and I will eat you."
Both 2024 and 2016 were total punts by the Democratic party, elections that could have easily been won in large margins, but defeat pulled from the jaws of victory in a way that seemingly only they can.
People know if they live in battleground/swing states. And still, the fact is that despite Trump getting FEWER votes than last time (which is an election he LOST, by the way), he WON this time, simply because millions of blue voters in those key states decided they'd rather not vote at ALL, than vote for the Democrats' candidate.
There is no excuse for the results of either of these elections, honestly. It's fucking embarrassing.
Everything Trump wants is deemed harmful by experts.
See that's the problem. "Experts" is a bad word to people like this because it makes them feel stupid in and inferior.
That is their problem, of course, but they have made it all our problem.
An unusual counterpoint. The 'krompomat' the Russians wasn't really proven, and at this stage I think if they threaten him with releasing whatever Trump can just go 'LOL like I give a fuck. You seen the shit I did to their face? They still voted for me!'
Unger's book is extensive and quite established. He is a journalist.
And all narcissists care about is their ego. He gives so many fucks.
Many of those people could have been swayed to vote democrat if the democrats fucking addressed the actual fucking issues and actually gave them a damn narrative to go by. Saying everything is fine when nothing is fine and the Republicans are constantly screwing them over (while also 100% deflecting ALL blame elsewhere) is delusional at best.
Also fuck AIPAC.
I've done a lot of posts critical of the posture and actions of the Democrat Party and their whole "If you don't vote you're voting Trump" propaganda (which are right there in my post history with lots of for and against votes), but as I see it the point being made by this tweet is different.
I don't read this tweet as being about people who didn't vote at all because the present day Democrat party, Democrat Candidate and Democrat President's actions didn't appeal to them (which is what seems to be responsible for the Democrat loss), I think it's about people who actually explicitly voted Trump (so, none of that "implictly voting Trump if you don't vote" bollocks but actually putting their vote on Trump)
And I absolutelly agree with this tweet: that man is a complete total worm - in everything from what he's done to what he says and even his body language - and on top of that was offering scapegoating and hate as policies.
I can get it that some people couldn't bring themselves to vote for the Genocidal ethno-Fascist supporting, pro-Oligarchy hard-right Neoliberal, slimy snakesoil salesman liar Democrats, but anybody actually voting Trump is not simply distrusting of or dissapointed with the modern day Democrat Party, they're active supporters of an even broader and deeper kind of nastiness.
Cool, none of them care. They’re all gloating. You can judge people all you want, but they won’t do what you want if they have real power over you. You want to make them care? Get power.
In the course of history, what do we know of those who “judged” the people who won? We don’t know much, nor do we care. How about we focus on winning, then it will matter who we judge.
We've already been through this. It's so very tiring. I'm over it. If you're a trump supporter, then fuck you. That's all. Goodbye.
I get how you feel, and I desperately want to feel the same way. But we aren't going to win people over back to the rational side with this attitude. It just feeds into the tribalism and makes the problem worse.
We need to empathize with the other side, which means start by listening to their concerns, and then the moment they feel listened too, we have to completely repudiate the awful stances they believe in, shut down their flawed logic and force them to face facts and reality: one human being to another.
This is brain washing remedy 101. Did we all forget the painfull lessons we learned through the first Trump Presidency? I feel like we have all collectively forgotten that period in time.
They don't think rationally, is the problem.
Do you understand how many times we've tried this already? They are perfectly fine with hypocrisy, lies, and projection.
I'm not saying we need to destroy them or anything, but this shit has gone too far. We need to try way harder to fight back against their hateful, regressive bullshit at this point.
No, the people that voted for Trump in this election will never vote for a non republican candidate regardless of how much you try to appease them. IMO you're more likely to lose even more voters than you stand to gain taking this approach. The democrats need to come up with a vision and candidate that is neither Harris, Biden, and certainly not anything close to Trump. They need someone that will make non-voters believe that there's a good chance their life will improve enough to make voting worthwhile.
bitch pls. history gonna get over written with trumps magic fucking marker.
It's gonna be wild to see how different the American history curriculum is inside vs outside of the US in a few years.
There will be concepts of curriculum 🫲🍊🫱
Please. It is a half eaten crayon.
My plan is to simply avoid ALL contact with MAGAs unless I'm forced to work with them. The same way you would avoid a meth-addled pit bull.
I'm not going to let them think their point of view is "fine" by pretending to be civil to them. It's not.
Well... I do judge them for their choice in political party when that party's entire platform is built up on those things.
My unfortunate observation is the majority of people who voted for Trump don't pay any attention to current events and basically get their news via rumor. But if you want the true culprit, it's the 15 million Democrats that voted last time but not this time. The votes for Trump actually went down compared to last time.
I fit was a few million less I would blame voter suppression via things like purging voter rolls. But the drop is so drastic it is clear the problem is that at least 10+ million people simply chose not to vote against an obvious threat to the country because the Dem candidate for President wasn't appealing enough.
Yea that's what they're saying isn't it. 15 million people vanished out of thin air. Interesting
Yeah I don't believe that for a fucking second to be honest with you, and I'm finding it difficult to not go insane with conspiracy theories about MAGA fucking with the vote counts, and becoming the same person I made fun of surrounding Jan 6 - except he has a proven record of being a cheat and all but outright stated his intent to cheat the election. I'm kind of dumbfounded that 3 hours after voting night closes the major news outlets are all reporting a Trump win which they couldn't possibly know yet, everyone takes this as fact and refuses to investigate any further. Official vote tally and certification isn't even until mid December by the usual schedule according to .gov sources.
Is it not just a little bit ridiculous to anyone else that in one of the most relentlessly politicized elections of the past century 15+ million people who voted last time suddenly didn't? 15 million people predominantly of the denominations that Trump and his goons particularly hate and wanted to silence? For that matter does anyone else find it strange that 45% of Latinos voted to deport themselves? I mean, some percentage I could expect, even up to like 20, I'd be disappointed but I'd understand, but 45%??
I am most certainly on some amount of copium here but I am incredibly surprised at the lack of any sort of investigation or push back or god damn anything surrounding what should certainly be contested results, at the very least. This feels very very fishy to me.
The religious fanatic psychopaths behind the scenes of MAGA, if successful in their goals, will ensure there is no history.
Dark times is an understatement.
I could understand Trump in 2016. I could also understand Trump in 2020 but much less. In 2024? Nahh... America voted for him in 2024 and I will judge Americans for it.
the only president in over 100 years to lose the popular vote twice. he won it his third time. unbelievable. as a rapist he's probably used to insisting after rejection until he wears them down.
Could you really understand Trump in 2016? I'm not asking to be mean. Wasn't his character the same back then? I've tuned out of US politics since the DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016.
Yeah, it made zero sense then and it has never made sense.
He was a meanie and very unpresidential and Hillary was disliked (even by me) and people wanted something different. Now he has been shown he will literally go against any advisors and literally tried to overturn the 2020 election results. Literal anti-democratic traitor to america.
in 2016 Trump was the one who mocked soldiers, was on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, vilifying immigrants, and being just as shitty as he is today. There was nothing understandable about voting for him in 2016.
Unfortunately I don't think most of these people care about being judged, especially not by some future people who they'll never meet.
As long as they see benefits in the short term, they're happy, and if the benefits don't materialize or go away too quickly, then it's The Other Side's fault somehow.
Well said.
Just something that's worth pointing out is that trumps voter base didn't change much. Counting is still happening, but so far it's trump -1 mil and Harris -13 million from last election.
So it's not so much that republicans voted badly it's that democrats lost a good chunk of votes (16%) didn't bother to vote this time.
And while I completely disagree with trumps side, it's insane, but at least I am happy that people voted. Voter apathy is far more dangerous to me. It's like saying to politicians, "I don't care that the nazi party is coming to power".
To me that's the biggest issue this election and honestly I don't understand why so few people cared. It's actually same story over here (UK), where we had fewer people voting this election than previous one.
It sounds like the Democrats just failed to present themselves as a viable alternative, or really inspire or motivate anyone to vote. Their platform seemed to be largely not being Trump.
When asked about healthcare, they said they had “concepts” of a plan.
Oh wait, no, that was the other guy.
The DNC and Biden failed us. His legacy will be tainted due to his failure to step aside for the nation. Kamala as a VP was already unpopular the DNC should've known they needed to choose someone who at least did well in the primaries or could actually fucking win.
I voted for her but I knew she probably wouldn't win, they don't fucking learn and then they blame us.
Every interview where questions were asked about Kamala's positions, shed talk about trump. It was not all that different than trump shit talking kamala even.
Thats the 2020 platform. If you want to be a talking head you'll need some argument more cogent than that^
Voters in every western country have no idea what policies are being voted on. They vote with their feelings.
There are a lot of enthusiastic people who want to be on team man, team money, team military. The first thing those people learned after their names was that they were BOYS and they would be sorted into the BOYS section, play on BOYS team. Voting Conservative is a natural extension of what they've been doing their whole lives.
It's harder motivating people to get out for team women, team tolerance, team responsibility. It requires a leader with charisma who we fall in love with.
I'm being absolutely serious when I say the Democratic Party should have nominated George Clooney — a famous celebrity figurehead would guarantee they win every presidential election.
I propose a total halt to any sexual activity with any Trump supporter. This will go on for the 4 years that asshole is in power and until a reasonable president that is not a rapist racist asshole is elected. Sure that guy could be republican but I highly recommend elsewhere.
I don't get how anyone could ever be attracted to a trump supporter anyway. It's a massive massive turn off for me
There should be no statute of limitations.
This comment is not going to age well. Not because of your choice of partner. But you will see that next year, the two term rule will be removed
4B needs to become more popular in the US with ovulating people.
It won't guarantee safety from forced situations, but with the incoming total bans on abortion and contraceptives they're facing over there, flat out refusing to have sex, relationships, and marriages with men, is going to be the best way to stay safe and in control of their bodies and finances.
I judge them for being the most gullible dumbasses in the history of the world. How stupid you have to be to believe the shit that Trump says?
These are just the dumbest and most simple-minded people in the country.
Yup. Communication requires effort on the part of the sender and receiver. I reject the premise that anyone needed convincing by the Dems. If simply seeing the candidates speak wasn't enough, that portion if the electorate is not putting in the slightest effort to understand. There are many motivations for wilful ignorance. There were perhaps other explanations for Trumps win in '16. This time it's just that America would rather have a convicted felon as a president.
I never judge people who got scammed or tricked or whatever. It happens. But getting scammed by one of the dumbest people on the planet is almost an achievement. I'm not even hyperbolic here, i have not seen a person making so much mouth noises and saying so little at the same time. That guy tricked you? Not even a smart and charming guy? Pathetic.
People always wonder why Vince McMahon get away with all his shit. And i did too, because i kept up with his monstrosities for quite some time. But even watching his netflix documentary, and knowing what an absolute monster he is, i just could not help but finding him weirdly charming. I don't know what level of charisma he's blessed with but it's almost creepy. Donald has absolutely non of that.
Trump voters won't care about any of that shit until it impacts them personally. My family is moving from Indiana to Maryland because of this election which is really going to obliterate grandparents' time around our kids. Sucks for them we refuse to stay in a state that would actively destroy our kids' education and wellbeing. They can shell out whatever massively inflated airfare it'll cost them to come visit us in a place we can actually feel safe.
Maryland is wonderful... you'll love it. I'm working on getting out of the South and back up north to the mid Atlantic
Wait until you're the grandparent and see how it's different then, and how would you'd think then
Maybe the grandparents shouldn't vote to directly harm their own grandchildren, and actively destroy their futures. Just a thought.
Sounds like gramma and grampa voted Trump, so maybe next time they'll make better choices. It's too late, of course, but that's the bed they made.
Yes the warped perscrptive informed from 50 years ago, when you had no choice but to trust the TV and newspapers, not like the world has changed since then.
You know what they call someone who votes for a fascist? A fascist.
I was thinking about this today, but I never thought I'd be living through, what I think of, as a major world event. This isn't a world War (in name), but the history books WILL likely bring up this period on the States. In what manner they're mentioned, good, bad, or indifferent, is yet to be seen. I imagine grandkids being bewildered when I tell them I lived through this... hopefully.
History is written not by the victor, but by academics, and if there’s one thing intelligent people agree on it is that Trump is a fucking moron.
History will not be kind.
This isn’t a world War (in name)
Give it time.
I never thought I’d be living through, what I think of, as a major world event.
I'm an older X-er. I've had it up to here with major world events. Boring times. I want to live in BORING TIMES.
but the history books WILL likely bring up this period on the States. In what manner they’re mentioned, good, bad, or indifferent, is yet to be seen.
I feel very sure we can predict in what manner they will be mentioned. The question is how bad will it be.
I certainly do judge any Trump voter as being either terribly naive or a truly bad person. However, broadcasting that message is going to change nothing and only serves as copium for the anti-Trump crowd.
What is going to sway people who have voted for Trump in the past and are not completely lost to the cult of personality is being a champion for radical change that benefits the middle class. The Harris platform evidently did not go far enough to convince enough voters they would see any meaningful change. Nor did the Clinton or Biden platforms, Biden was only lucky enough that his policies were effectively irrelevant in contest with Trump's disastrous mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic response.
We can't hope for another deadly crisis to get us out of this one.
If champion for radical change that benefits the middle class was that important Trump would not have won.
I would argue that he most definitely is a champion for radical change and that's why he won. "Drain the swamp", "Dictator on day one", " He says it like it is" are all things that deviate dramatically from the status quo of political etiquette. Trump is willing to break political norms to get what he wants and evidently voters think his interests align with their own.
Obviously, this isn't the kind of radical change you or I are hoping for but it certainly is radical. Meanwhile, the Dems are playing it safe in an attempt to appeal broadly and not upset too many people. And we've seen for the last decade that gets us at best legislation which has been gutted to the point where it does effectively nothing for the majority of Americans.
What about the lack of turnout for KH? Am I reading the results wrong ? Was there not massive amounts on non voters? As much as I hate republicans the fence setters an uninformed have fucked us all outside the US
John Oliver's segment on Palestinians really cemented it for me: if your family was killed by a missile sold to them by Biden, it's really difficult to support his successor.
Sure you may not want the orange turd either.
But imagine the heartache of voting for the person related to the one who is responsible for the death of your family.
I know I can't. And a part of me feels for them.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary's election plan verbatim. No one stopped to tell Harris that Clinton lost.
Sanders warned her that if she wants a good turn out, she needs to have a plan for the working class.
Instead she wasted weeks trying to get Republican endorsements instead of trying to shore up her base.
What upset me the most is that Harris used Hilary's election plan verbatim.
She absolutely did not. Hillary leaned into the gender card hardcore. She had her supporters wearing t-shirts saying “I’m with her” with an arrow sign. She said “I’m not saying you should vote for me because I’m a woman, you should vote for me because of my qualifications. But one of my qualifications is…I’M A WOMAN!!!”
Kamala didn’t lean into any of this demographics, gender war trash. She (wisely) followed Barack Obama’s playbook of leaving the identify politics crap at the door. She lost for other reasons. Hillary alienated voters by leaning too hard into identity politics. Kamala ran a much better campaign than Hillary. They are not the same. Why Kamala lost will be debated for some time at least, but it will not be concluded reasonably that she lost for the same reasons Hillary lost in 2016. I know people want to conclude that women just can’t get elected, but we haven’t yet had a female candidate that ran a great campaign. As someone who wants our first female president, I have to reluctantly admit that we’ve been underserved by our female politicians thus far. I have high hopes for AOC in the future, but we’ll have to wait and see how that plays out. I don’t actually think Kamala did anything wrong in her campaign; I just think she was working against the legacy set by her predecessor, and it was too much. That, and too many American voters are stupid, ignorant, misguided voters. And, probably, some Pro-Palestinian voters had their heads up their asses.
I chose to vote for Harris despite this because Trump would be no better on this, so effectively the issue wasn't up for vote and I could only vote on the other issues that were different between them. But very bluntly, I don't blame Arabs and Muslims for not voting for Harris. They have one of the strongest grievances one could possibly have (i.e. second only to attacks directly on them personally, in the U.S.), and the dismissiveness from Biden (and Harris) was downright insulting.
A part of me does feel like Biden chose Israel over Americans. I don't know if changing course on this would have changed the election, and I guess it's impossible to truly know.
Thanksgiving will be the real test if people really mean it.
How so? My dad voted for Trump's fascism, but my mom did not. I am not going to avoid my mom just to punish my dad.
Host Thanksgiving and only invite your mom.
Yes
I just judge them for being fucking idiots.
This condescending attitude is almost ok when it's done by voters, the problem is tgat the dem party constantly acts insufferably towards potential voters.
It is a party's duty to appeal to the people, not the other way around. The dems proved once again that acting like "the least worst option" doesn't work, especially in a disinformation economy like the US and frankly the rest of the world. It's not the 2000's anymore, respectability politics are hated by most voters.
I said this repeatedly. I told them I was voting for Kamala and I wanted her to win, which is why I was requesting they change their speech.
Meaning that if they are ever held accountable, they will say they never voted for Trump and burn anything that could ever indicate so.
Additionally, if you did not vote for Harris I will judge you.
This is the third fucking time Democrats have run with an establishment candidate.
I voted Harris but I knew she was a shit candidate and not who we needed to go against Trump. She couldn't even primary ffs.
The DNC is squarely to blame, every time people blame the voters and nothing fucking changes. You can't keep putting up generic neocon establishment hand-picked candidates and expect turnout.
every time people blame the voters and nothing fucking change
I blame all the voters that were fine with voting for Trump first, because they looked at that shit stain and thought he would be acceptable as the leader of the country. The people that voted for him are the problem.
Harris still did a terrible job, sure. But a literal pile of dogshit should have been a preferable option to Trump.
Genocide is a redline for me, though I understand why to many Harris voters the mass slaughter of people halfway across the world is a non-issue.
Edit: “If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump’s extremism and vote for him.” -- Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
Of course it's a fucking issue! Do you think it will be better now that Netanyahu got the person be wanted in the white house?! My god how short sighted are you!
Well thank God you stopped that regular genocide from happening from a first term president who we can leverage public support against if she wanted a second term.... And instead transformed it into a much faster and crueler genocide by a second term fascist who openly said we will never vote again and who wants to deport 25million Latinos out of this country (also a genocide fyi).
You guys really helped out those people in Gaza, sure thing. Look at how much you achieved. Next you'll vote for mass gas chambers instead of individual lethal injection because you're against the death penalty.
Your stance strikes me as performative. As everyone's lives are getting harder, including the people you claim to be prioritizing, that's okay because at least your hands are clean. That's the most important thing to you, that everyone knows you personally are pure.
The majority of the blame lays with the DNC, the GOP, and those that voted for Trump. But you will also share a portion of the blame, even if you deny and refuse to take responsibility for it, we all lay it on your shoulders anyways.
"I don't judge you for your political party" hurrr fucking durr from a tiny mind trying to sound intelligent
The Fucking Republicans have been threatening and working towards ripping away protects from Brown people since The Southern Strategy in 1964, Andrea Junker trying to be cute, going high, and ridiculously trying to split this hair is insulting to the decades of fighting Democrats had to wage to keep Roe, and Voting Rights as long as they did while the Fucking Republicans tried every Congress under every President to strip them away
If you vote Fucking Republican, you are a Fucking Racist, and I blame you squarely for both who you vote for, and what political fucking party you belong to
"I don't judge you ...." fuck off I need a shower
tfw you read the first sentence but don't make it to the second ;(
Ironically i had the same urge reading the first sentence of their comment. After reading the whole thing, I feel kind of dumb hoping to find redemption by the end of it.
Trump had the same amount of votes or similar to last time. Harris lost a shit ton of votes, so I don't blame Trump voters. I blame Harris for running such a shit campaign.
Regrettably most of these people saw an avenue they thought would benefit them economically.
They didn't vote with their brains, they voted with their wallet and based on what they've heard.
The fact that anyone not in the 1% keeps falling for Republican economic policy shows how fucking stupid the US population is.
That's the fault of the democratic party. They know the level of education the population holds.
Furthermore, I think this is an ideological issue. Liberalism isn't working anymore.
Your memes mean nothing to me, you fascist sympathiser.
People don't care about any of those things if they can't feed their families.
All aboard, everyone! Set sail on the S.S. Righteous Indignation....
America is in a tight spot right now. Claiming moral highground does nothing to help the situation.
Having such a an ego that they think trumpians care about their or anyone's judgement or opinion.
I'm not American, but I would have voted for him the first time around.
I was bored. Bored with life. Let's fuck shit up by putting some crazy in office. Even better that I don't live there so I get to grab the popcorn and watch the crazy.
But by the end of it, I was sooo done. I just wanted it to calm down and go back to normal.
There is no way I would have voted for him this time. And frankly I am disappointed in anyone who did.
Because you were doing it for fun, they were doing it because their lives are getting worse and wanted any change. Shows how shit the US experience is that this was preferable to continuing on.
Their lives were getting worse because of Republican policies that couldn't be fixed because of Republican obstruction to reform.
They are morons for voting for the cause of their problems just because the source of the problem wasn't creating new ones.
This type of bullshit “judgment” is exactly how we perpetuate polarity.
Have some self awareness lmao
If the shoe fits...
“If you were able to overlook a genocide and cast a vote for Harris, you already know how a conservative was able to overlook Trump ’s extremism and vote for him.” -- Historian Robin D.G. Kelley
Can we stop with all this bullshit? Im not even and American and i cant stand the cry anymore. People voted, its democracy, it is what it is, get over it
Not anymore it isnt
Legit. And the same goes for anyone who voted kamalacaust.
Sheesh.. all these liberal tears are going to sustain me for years.
Lol we don't have years. AMOC collapse is here and you all are defunding NOAA. What type of climate change related disaster do you think you'll die from? A flood like in Spain, Bogota, Japan, North Carolina? A hurricane like in Cuba and Florida? A volcano or earthquake (and yes those are getting worse due to climate change)? Maybe a polar vortex freeze, a tornado, or a forest fire? Perhaps just simple extreme heat? Who knows? I can't wait to find out tbh :)
Surely hating everyone in America isn’t the answer
It’s a good fucking start.
It is so odd and counterproductive to me to take this position. "Vote how I want or Ill hate you because Im a better person than you." Yeah, that will really bring those votes in by the millions. Instead of acting like a child why not learn about these peoples' lives and attempt to understand why they voted the way they did? Why did Democrats lose the male vote, the independent vote, half of Latinos, and all 7 swing states? It is ignorant and lazy to call them all the isms, go and actually learn why you lost.
You have a good point that understanding the voter is a good path to figuring out how to fix this in the future.
We still get to judge them for being awful people, because fooled or not, they effectively are
Dig deep enough in any awful begaviour and you can find causes and explanations, but that doesn't make every behaviour ok
Then you should be fair and judge harris in a similar way. For supporting and being a part of genocide.
There'll be a genocide under Trump too
And it will be far far far worse.
All of these "it's genocide, it cannot get worse" fools are in for a rude awakening. Assuming they actually give a shit.
If you didn't vote Harris because of genocide then you're a fucking moron. Trump is just going to cut Bibi a blank cheque to pave Palestine with bodies and then move on to Iran. Good job choosing the greater of two evils!
But go ahead and pat yourself on the back for staying home.
I absolutely would have judged her in a similar way had she won. But right now, she's the Vice President, and has zero say (unless its to break a tie in the Senate) on this policy whatsoever.
So why would I judge her for "supporting and being part of a genocide"? See how this works? You elect her first, then you pressure her to do the thing that you know for certain the other guy will never do.
Okay, you're better than them. Happy?
They weren't thinking about everything you're thinking about. They're just trying to buy eggs.
The problem is that they don't know or care that eggs are expensive because of bird flu. They just want to justify their vote outside of the prejudices they don't want to say out loud.
Sorry I mentioned eggs. I Just meant inflation.
You're just plain wrong to say everyone who voted for Trump did so out of racism, misogyny, or transphobia.
I voted for Kamala, but I'm not in favor of everything she stands for. I didn't want Trump. Does it mean I hate Palestinians that I voted for Kamala?
Maybe they should think a little harder next time. And by a little harder I mean literally at all
Oh no! I'm shaking in my little boots. Your opinion matters so much, Andrea. For the record though, I'm with you in principal, I just don't care about your opinion.
Yes yes blame voters. Keep doing that. Great strategy. Do not blame the DNC.
They don't realize that by being angry at their fellow man they them away.
Por que no los dos?
It's day four of Trump being in office and I've already been ghosted by dozens of people for the crime of not voting. Because, you know, immigrants who can't vote are expected to vote too.
Cope and seethe.
I'm judging the Trump voters, but I'm judging the Harris voters, too. You would think that support of genocide would be a deal-breaker for Democrats, but apparently not.
We just saw what splitting the dems does.
Yup. Morons who didn't vote for Harris "because genocide" now get to watch Trump cut Bibi a blank cheque. Genocide will accelerate. Good job, morons.
Harris split the dems so she could take AIPAC cash, and here we all are. Give credit where its due.
If you voted for Harris I blame you for overlooking a fucking genocide.
After all, trump supporters are “overlooking fascism” to punish the biden admin for the gaslighting over inflation.
Is Trump planning on helping Palestinians? It always seemed a strange argument to me to use against the Democrats since I'm pretty sure the right would have done the exact same in regards to Israel. Please prove me wrong, I'd love to see a silver lining to this situation.
Trump probably has more allegiance to Putin than he does to Netanyahu's money, which might mean forcing it to compromise on a compromise. But frankly, I've always seen US support of Israel as a means to drive out Russian influence in Israel, whose cooperation has increased the last few decades before becoming clouded with the latest conflict. The conflict with Iran and its proxies might stop, but Palestinians are still getting genocided, if anything with more of a focus.
There fucking isn't one, and there might never be again.
This level of ignorance and spite is obscene and absolutely terrifying. This person is basically willing to let the whole world burn in the name of preventing a genocide that obviously won't be prevented but made even worse when the world starts burning. Out of spite.
Absolutely terrifying.
Terrifying is voting for an anti-democratic party to “protect democracy”. Bunch of fucking sheep.
What has the biden admin done for the past four years to “protect democracy” or “prevent fascism”?
Absolutely fucking nothing. Keep voting every four years and then going back to brunch, liberal.
Palestine and Ukraine is absolutely fucked under Trump, and it's your fucking fault for helping hand him the presidency. Think before you spew such ignorant bullshit next time.
