“May have just legalized murder by one individual”: Experts alarmed at “stunning” SCOTUS ruling
“May have just legalized murder by one individual”: Experts alarmed at “stunning” SCOTUS ruling
The ruling even barred courts from trying to "inquire into the president's motives."
This is literally explicitly legalized fascism and its the law of the land right now. Even if Biden wins he needs to do something to stop this before he leaves office or the US will forever be exactly as fascist as the President decides he wants to be. It's here now.
There’s not much he can do short of committing a crime himself. Democrats don’t have control of the House, so there no way to increase the size of SCOTUS. They were smart in ruling bribery is legal before granting immunity, or Biden would have been able to officially order the DOJ to investigate SCOTUS for corruption.
His hands are tied unless he wants to get blood on them.
Blood on his hands from BLM protesters, Palestinians, trans people, Ukrainians who could use the support more than Israel, most Americans who don't have enough to live with life threatening illnesses, Mexicans at the border, ignoring COVID...
Fuck the Court. It doesn't care about America. The penalty for teason is...?
If you or I did anything close to what Trump and the Courts did and do on a daily basis we'd be arrested in a high security prison. Jan 6th had next to no punishment for any of the leaders.
It's literally not a crime if the president does it.
There's lots he can do besides killing people if you are creative.
Its time to get blood on them
He can pack the supreme court. Then limit it to something tangible.
Like first, say that 2 senators per state is silly and it needs to be based on population like the house if reps. Then say that we need a supreme court justice from all 50 states + D.C. or some shit.
Boom.
Then term limits, age limits... Ranked choice, strict laws in gerrymandering...
And we have a functioning Republic again.
That's the funny thing. He cant commit crimes anymore. He's immune from the law. All he needs to do is order the military to destroy the corruption in the Supreme Court using the legal doctrine known as bullets in the brainpan. Poof, problem solved. You don't even have to kill people, just a few fascists.
Frankly? He needs to get on with that malicious compliance to graphically - and yes, in some cases violently - demonstrate why this is a terrible fucking idea. I’m genuinely not looking forward to it, but at the same time I do think it’s become absolutely necessary.
But I sincerely doubt he will.
His hands are tied unless voters give him a mandate by voting all MAGAs out of office.
Kill Trump, kill scouts. Problem solved.
in all honesty, that's what you Americans need to do. the days of peaceful protests and marching are behind you, you missed that boat a while ago. now a ship named "Revolution" has just pulled into dock and if you're not on that boat then there's no more boats coming.
Stop using the excuse of "but I need to work, I have to pay rent, I have to pay bills" because in 4 months time you might not have a job to pay those bills or rent. hell depending on if you're a woman, LGBTQ+, liberal, black, an immigrant, etc, etc, etc you might have none of the above.
The American people and the country as a whole are literally, currently, right now in real time dying by a thousand cuts. you're being slowly and methodically murdered with precision and too many of you don't realize you're dying. Time to demand heads on pikes and if they aren't handed to you, well you need to go out and get them.
One way or another people are going to die. I mean I'm not going to sugar coat this, people will die.
So the question is would you rather die laying on your back doing nothing or would you rather die saving whats left of your nation and fighting for your fellow American?
So, “It could happen here?”
Not “may have,” did. They did legalize any action taken by the person holding the office of the presidency. Trump tried to have his VP killed for fucks sake. That actually happened. It’s no longer the case that everyone in America is equal under the law. The president is now legally allowed to do anything that would get the rest of us thrown in jail. This society isn’t even pretending to be equal anymore. We’re finished.
I’m so fucking tired, and I feel like that was one of the main points of this. Dems are too exhausted and afraid of taking big actions to do anything about this, so like I said, we’re finished.
Didn't they just legalize "any" official action?
Exactly, and that’s how this court is so tricky. By not fully defining what an “official act” is, they’re claiming the power to decide later. Because that very issue will inevitably reach them after some batshit district court ruling. So they ultimately get to decide regardless, and this court regularly makes up ahistorical and completely absurd justifications that don’t pass the smell test, so we’re doomed.
Yes...any action the president takes and say it's part of his official duties is legal.
Biden doesn't have the balls to do what he needs to do right now.
The great experiment failed.
As far as I can tell, yup. And by official, it basically means anything done while in office, so he could theoretically walk out onto Pennsylvania Avenue, spray a group of protestors holding signs with an M16, and walk back inside with no legal repercussions.
It’s no longer the case that everyone in America is equal under the law.
Is there a "never has been" version of the "always has been" meme?
Them taking the mask off and being open about it is serious and dangerous don't get me wrong, but lets not pretend the law is, or ever was written nor administered equally - filthy rich and powerful white men in particular have always put themselves above it.
Nah unfortunately you’re 100% right, it has never actually been equal in practice. But at least we all could delude ourselves into thinking that we were striving towards that principle. It’s all laid bare now, and it’s fucking ugly. The fact that they’ve been actively working towards these very goals with laser focus, for decades, makes it all the worse.
I'm fucken angry. We need to get together. We need to protest. We need to do it relentlessly on their doorsteps until the country is in distinction from us not showing up to work. Its either that or fascism wins.
There’s nothing Congress can do with Republican control of the House.
AOC will enter the chat
/s
AoC falls out a window in the next 4 years...I'm pretty sure there's going to be a lot of high profile Democrats having accidents as soon as Trump gets back in the chair.
Earlier today I was writing about how we are in a full blown constitutional crisis now. Then I realized that we aren’t. The crisis is over and the Supreme Court chose to abandon the constitution. The crisis was happening before this decision was made, but very few people were aware or alarmed about it. We are now in a state where I doubt there’s any legal recourse. We’ve moved on to another stage and that terrifies me.
Well, I hated reading that. Thanks a lot.
weird that the constitution says nothing about "immunity" but the courts keep creating various forms of it. Its almost like we explicitly need an amendment that says courts are not allowed to declare things "immune" from the law.
It's crazy because so much of the constitution is about ensuring no one is above the law, because they were trying to get away from a monarchy. Somehow this SC either can't read or understand the constitution though because here we are.
Oh, they can read, they know exactly what they are doing. The Republic has had enemies within from the start, and now they control the most powerful branch of government.
But wouldn't you also sell out your country in exchange for a deluxe RV and some luxury fishing trips?
That's originalists for you.
weird that the constitution says nothing about "immunity" but the courts keep creating various forms of it.
Also weird that it explicitly prohibits warrantless search and seizure of personal property and documents as well as due process, but, the courts have allowed personal property to be stolen via civil asset forfeiture (somehow, it's considered legal to accuse non-sentient objects of crimes, for which there is little to no recourse because they have no consciousness) and >=90% of the country which is within 100miles of a border (international airports are considered borders) are vulnerable to detention without charge by the Border Patrol.
Remember: Fuck Mitch McConnell
Don't have sex with turtles, you'll get salmonella.
I feel like you don't really need the whole bit after the comma.
Would be a shame Dark Brandon used his newfound powers to execute the supreme court for treason.
The powers now suddenly granted are decided entirely by the SC for what they seem "official/unofficial". Those jokes about how they'd try and do "immunity, but only for trump"?
That's what they've done.
Cam I start calling the US authoritarian now?
Maybe not quite yet, but if Trump does win then Project 2025 will certainly mean that they'll be authoritarian before you can say "well fuck"
No. You can say oh fuck now.
Bit past that now. From the outside, the US is looking a bit like a failed state now.
No, from Europe I tell you, we see you as less democratic than you used to and with many problems that can escalate and screw you up (we are not celebrating here either), but you are still far from being a failed state, there are still police more or less functional, you can still call the fire department if your house catches fire, there is still a clear institutional hierarchy, more authoritarian but clear.
Yes, the speed at which you are flushing democracy down the toilet, when, I don't know maybe 20 years ago, you were the example to follow in many aspects, it is surprising for everyone.
You're only just starting?
You know in the game Secret Hitler when the board has sufficiently advanced into fascism that it becomes strategic for the liberals to vote fascism and unlock a bullet? Honestly makes me think of that.
Not saying this is what needs to happen. I honestly don't know how americans can do to get out of their quagmire.
In my experience, the liberals lose games like that 9 times out of 10. Either they kill a liberal and doom themselves, or they kill a fascist and then lose the game anyways because the deck is stacked.
What this would actually look like in effect would be if Biden had Trump assassinated by their own rules, either Biden would get impeached by the republicans + a few breakoff dems, or it would start a precedent of political assassinations in the U.S., which would end with a lot of blood.
Either way, it will be a disaster. I don't want to be a doomer, but I don't see a way to salvage this shit show.
That’s not doomer, that’s being a realist. Either Biden becomes a dictator and risks MAGA civil war, or Trump becomes a dictator and risks a rebellion. Those are the 2 choices.
It goes by beyond murder. It includes terrorism by goons blessed by government pardons - MAGAs included if they step out of line. All dissent will be crushed. He warned us of his intention but some are way too stupid to understand.
How can Biden use this for good? Healthcare? Marijuana legalization? Reinstate abortion? Guns? Income inequality?
We're in unmarked territory and all I can think of are the abuses. Does somebody have a little hope they can spare?
Problem is, it’s up to the courts to decide what is and isn’t “official us business”. As of now, everything Trump does will be “official”, and nothing Biden does would be “official”.
Doesn’t matter what is fair and even cause Republicans don’t play by that game.
I once made up an idea for an action thriller, called "President Psycho", where a serial killer gets elected as the president, and immediately legalizes murder involving brutal torture for himself and his friends, if committed to the "right target". God my ideas are becoming reality before even realizing them, and the worst is that I had an idea for an edgy magical girl metroidvania that set in a dystopian world which has been completely overthrown by fascists, all while I just started to take more seriously a much more simpler and smaller game idea (Arkanoid clone that is basically a hacking minigame but bigger).
Maybe it was a premonition, the game sounds cool
I highly recommend the following book: "On Tyranny: twenty lessons from the Twenty Century"
There's also reading of it by the author on YouTube.
I hate that book. It's a great read. Horrifying, inspiring and becoming more important by the day.
It is, but the more people read it the bigger hope we have that it won't happen.
For how long this took — for the mere fact they took this case — and given their previous rulings, I'm more stunned the experts are stunned.
“I’m stunned!”
Reaches for Big Mac and Diet Coke.
“Did the Celtics win last night?”
Remember that this whole time biden could have packed the SCOTUS and turned the Republican majority into a Democrat majority. Nothing in our Constitution says only 9 supreme court appointees. He's just not willing to do it because he is a liberal and doesn't want to use his power to crush the Republicans like they need to be.
If it was trump he would have (and did) wielded the knife of political power with no hesitation but the moment Democrats have the knife they hold it with fear the Republicans would accuse them of being partisan.
Didn't they and Manchin and Sinema promised to block it?
It's possible but there was at least an opportunity to try putting forth some moderate judges which would have a chance to pull over center Republicans or Sinema/Manchin. Or at least force the issue. I believe they also had a chance after Roe V Wade before election time in November when the political will was more there to defend the abortion issue by getting a supreme court more favorable on the issue
He’s just not willing to do it because he is a liberal and doesn’t want to use his power to crush the Republicans like they need to be.
Liberals love to maintain the status quo with small, incremental changes.
Capitalism loves unfettered, infinite growth. This is such a small minded, short term mindset. I much prefer a "controlled and sustainable" growth approach. Liberals are trying to build an equitable country for all of us and our progeny, the other side is trying to cash out before it all comes crashing down. It's disgusting. But history repeats itself, because humans are the common factor and humans, broadly, suck.
He’s just not willing to do it because he is a liberal and doesn’t want to use his power to crush the Republicans like they need to be.
This is ABSOLUTELY wrong and /u/exanime pointed that out to you already. Manchin and Sinema said they would have blocked it. It would not have succeeded because they sold their souls NOT because biden is tOo LiBeRaL. Jesus christ.
The Biden admin has fought tooth and nail for things that are actually fucking possible and the average american has benefited. We all want to expand this illegitimate court but you simply CANNOT pin the blame on Biden's chest.
What about Obama?? Where was the packing of the court then? You know, that time in which he could have forced RBG out and chosen a pick but instead mitch pushed for the AmErIcAn PeOpLe to get the choice (and then did the exact opposite when it was trumps turn). Too much of a lib as well?
So much lib apologism holy shit. First of all I responded to the users comment. They are correct about that but just because the two said they would oppose doesn't mean biden did his best.
The biden admin fought tooth and nail? What did he fight for? You think I'm supposed to accept the one thing he fought for, student debt cancellation as some sort of pity policy? Trump came out all the time pushing the window to the right, fighting for his policy. You literally could not make him shut up about the border while Biden hardly ever used his platform meaningfully to bully others in the government into doing what needed to be done to build political power for the democrats. If you can't see that then I think you might not understand the full extent of the power of the presidency. Where's decriminalizing weed? When did he push for the minimum wage? Those were like his main campaign promises. The worst part is especially with weed he could have just descheduled it but instead he just lowered it by a single schedule to raise his approval rating.
I don't get why you have such a hard-on for biden. He did some good things but that doesn't excuse his negligent misuse of his political appointment at a time when our democracy depends on it.
With regards to Obama, do I have to complain about every politician I don't like whenever I criticize any other politician? Obama sucked at this too and this is in many ways more his fault than Biden's but do I really need to bring him up every time I go to criticize other democrats?!
And what would stop the next Republican president from packing the court further to have a conservative majority again?
And this goes back and forth until there are 100s on the Supreme Court
I hate this reasoning. They would do it anyway! They attempted a coup. You really think they would stop because there's some gentleman's agreement not to add more?
Trump and the GOP have always used these gentleman's agreements against the Democrats when they are in power and ignored them when it was their time. Obama did the same shit when he was in office not forcing through the supreme court appointee.
I'm honestly not sure why he doesn't just have all of SCOTUS murdered, and if anyone in Congress moves against him, have then eliminated as well. Do Trump in, whole he's at it. Full on blood bath.
Tell me why not?
Couldn't they just vote that it wasn't an "official" presidential action and try him for murder? With this new ruling and the absurdly vague definitions of what is or isn't official it seems like absolutely anything is legal but only if the SCOTUS say it is. So right now it certainly seems like if you wear red you could do anything you want and if you wear blue you are screwed six ways to Sunday. I may be misunderstanding this whole thing tho.
Who's "they" and how do they feel about an air-mailed Slap Chop?
I don't know, but I do know that Biden has to win now, and we need a majority of Democrats in Congress. Something has to be done to balance the damage this Supreme Court is doing, or we will get a dictator soon. And it might be a Democrat dictator; it's more likely to be a Republican, but the Presidency is quickly gaining dictator-like powers.
I don't know, but I do know that Biden has to win now, and we need a majority of Democrats in Congress. Something has to be done to balance the damage this Supreme Court is doing, or we will get a dictator soon. And it might be a Democrat dictator; it's more likely to be a Republican, but the Presidency is quickly gaining dictator-like powers.
What a can of worms. If Texas can ignore SCOTUS then with this ruling what's to stop the president from ordering his staff to do the same?
How well would a constitutional amendment fly? (I'm not a USian)
Could a states' rights pitch be made for enshrining some legal limitation on presidential action?
Sadly probably would never happen without a lot changing. It is really hard to get one passed unless it's supported by both parties and the Republicans in the US want this (requires two thirds vote in both the House and Senate which rarely happens for any policy that's actually worth passing).
There aren't really almost any Republicans willing to do anything against Trump at this point. I guess nothing is impossible given how bad things are but
US presidents acting in their official capacity were always immune to prosecution for murder. Johnson and Nixon wiped out entire villages in Vietnam, never held accountable.
True, but now it's legal do wrap Trump and all his judges in American flags and throw them out a third floor window. The flag makes it official business. Welcome to Putin town.
As some have touched on, this also means that the MAGA crowd will believe that by extension they are also entitled to immunity and will act accordingly.
doctrine of double effect hours
It was already effectively legal, presidents have been ordering people killed for how long now? And often not even in wartime scenarios. Just cause they wanted them removed.
I can't believe people in here openly advocating to assassinate supreme court justices. You all need to step away for a bit, take a few breaths and go talk to some real people.
Well people were openly trying to hang mike pence
Yes, and that was insane and unacceptable.
Barack must be relieved he'll never be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder and first degree murder.
Oh look a crazy person
What? In theory he could have been prosecuted for having Gaddafi killed. Now he can't.