It has already been removed again
It has already been removed again
Edit: Stickying some relevant "war reporting" from the comments to the post body, in a hopefully somewhat chronological order. Thanks for diving into the trenches everybody!
So the "and convicted felon" part of the screenshot that is highlighted was in the first sentence of the article about Donald Trump. After the jury verdict it was added and then removed again pretty much immediately several times over.
Then the article got editing restrictions and a warning about them (warning has been removed again):
During these restrictions there is a "RfC" (Request for Comments) thread held on the talk page of the article where anybody can voice their opinion on the matter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Donald_Trump#RfC_on_use_of_"convicted_felon"_in_first_sentence
Money quote:
There's a weird argument for **slight support**. Specifically because if we don't include it in the first paragraph somewhere, either the first sentence or in a new second sentence, there are going to be edit wars for the next 2-6 years. Guninvalid (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
There is a second battlefield going on in the infobox on the side (this has also been removed again at this point in time):
The article can apparently only be edited by certain more trusted users at the moment, and warnings about editing "contentious" parts have been added to the article source:
To summarise, here is a map of the status quo on the ground roughly a day after the jury verdict:
Hey you guys I just had an amazing thought, wouldn't it be amazing if he just sort of accidentally dropped dead of natural causes or whatever so we could be relieved of all this nonsense? And Biden too...
seriously, imagine what a huge relief that would be.
of course politics would just replace them with some other yahoos up there but can we just move on already...
Same with Pootin and Netanyahu.
The world would be soo much more chill
Heh. "Pootin"...
Aging 2024
There is relief right now if you don't follow politics. :)
Since you do, I guess you enjoy reading about the worst of humanity.
it's exactly as you say, but i think moving on and on with worse and worse options is not gonna be better than the current iteration. and no one's gonna fix the social divide or the voting system. i recommend just stopping to vote and stopping to watch news. the losers have already won, why are we still playing
My useless opinion:
I barely knew Donald Trump prior to his election campaign, pre-2020. Not as a business man nor media personality. I would probably recognize the name, but I wouldn't be familiar with anything he had done up until he ran for president the first time.
The only notable thing about him, for me, is that he was president (easily one of the worst), and he is a convicted felon. So, I think it's pretty stupid to argue whether "convicted felon" should be in his opening lede line for Wikipedia. To me, that answer is obvious. Yes, of course it should be.
if it's on OJ Simpsons and Mike Tyson's, then 100000% should be on diaper dons
So, I think it’s pretty stupid to argue whether “convicted felon” should be in his opening lede line for Wikipedia.
True though that may be, I don't think it's surprising that this would happen, and since making the post I have been falling down a rabbit hole of finding out how Wikipedia is handling situations like this, partly through taking more than a glancing look at the talk pages for the first time ever, and it's fascinating.
Currently my deepest point of descent is this sub-thread on the Admin board about the "consensus" boxes on top of talk pages being an undocumented and unapproved feature.
I agree, the whole thing is interesting to say the least.
His first election campaign was in 2016, not 2020 haha
Yeah, I can't be arsed to remember anything pre-COVID with that much detail. Unless it was something I was directly experiencing.
I'm not even a US citizen, nor do I live in the country, so I only have a passing interest in American politics. I know enough to know that I don't really want to visit the USA, especially right now.
I'm happy staying North of the border, in Canada. However, US politics tend to bleed over to Canada, so I keep an eye on it when I can. What's good for the US, is normally good for Canada, and the same for what's bad. I'm just happy we haven't gone to privatized healthcare, and in fact we're enhancing the existing healthcare system and extending what's covered. It's probably one of the most important political items for me. I don't need it, but I probably will eventually, and some of my family can directly benefit from the changes.
Wikipedia is fascinating with regards to how it handles these conflicts. I'm interested to see where it finally lands.
Twice impeached, convicted rapist and 34-time smelly felon 'Sleepy Don' Donald Trump...
It's starting to sound like a boxing intro
I am all for mentioning his conviction in the 1st sentence, but the crowd saying it should go into the 2nd sentence make some good points.
Barely anyone gets to have "convicted felon" in their lead sentence. Firstly, it is poor style unless the person is only known because they did a crime, secondly, convicted felon can mean a lot of thing and should be specified. "Convicted of falsifying business records" is just so much more specific, and can later be added with "and election interference".
In any case, while the discussion is ongoing it has been included in a 2nd sentence, and the editors supporting to move it to first sentence seem to be the majority.
If only more of them would read the whole discussion, instead of just saying "Support due to being established fact".Yeah, it's in the third sentence of Richard Nixon's wiki page where it's stated he's the only President to resign from office. First sentence was political positions he held, second sentence about events while he was President, third sentence about him resigning.
So maybe the wikipedia page should follow that pattern and the first sentence be about positions he's held. The second sentence should be about his record as president... so something about Trump being President at the start of the Covid Pandemic (that killed over a million Americans), passed legislation to cut taxes for the wealthy, assassinated an Iranian General, tried to weaken NATO, was impeached for withholding military aid from Ukraine for personal gain, and was impeached again for trying to overthrow the government after losing the election. Then in the third sentence it would say he was later convicted on falsifying documents while covering up a scandal so he could be elected.
I feel like this would be fair.
It's already locked and even the talk page is restricted. Past that Wikipedia won't even let me log in to participate.
Not going to be surprised when this magically disappears.
A lot of other language pages don't seem to be locked-- time to spread the word to the rest of the world
You do you, but they will come for those pages if the Maga group wins on the English language page.
If they don't leave it in there I'll have lost all respect for Wikipedia. It's a fact, and not one of those "goodfacts" the magats like to create.
Yeah its definitely an editor war. The people actually getting paid by Wikipedia aren't necessarily the ones editing and adding articles. Its probably groups of volunteers fighting.
People are discussing it in the talk pages and figuring out how they want the new information to be included in the article instead of leaving an article about a former POTUS to the whims of random vandals.
There is currently a discussion on if it should be mentioned in the first or 2nd sentence of the article. As such, the edit was removed until that discussion is finished.
At a glance, it seems like most editors prefer to have it in the 1st sentence. The ones that want it in the 2nd sentence do make good points though, and the discussion is very level headed. It is a fact, but if it is 1st sentence important is an opinion.
Honestly, I think they're having the wrong discussion. His true legacy won't be convicted felon even though that is notable. His legacy will be as the first POTUS (hopefully only) to lead/cause an insurrection during the certification of the presidential election, while he also attempted to overturn them through corruption and by denying the election results. No other POTUS has even come close to implying that, yet Trump actually did all three. Furthermore, he is saying he will deny the results if he loses again and is hinting at more violence.
"Trial's over. Donnie's a convicted felon. The judge out front should have told ya."
He's also THE LIVING INCARNATION OF THE CHRIST and shit. don't mock the incontinence diapers, that shit's not funny.
Pakistan and India pages: amateurs
No cause for panic. The letters just got scrambled over the inter-webs: he's not a convicted felon , he's a convinced melon. There are many varieties of melons of course, for example watermelons, bitter melons, and musk melons.
Wiki is a circlejerk of people who have gotten their digital power and want to play pretend that they're doing something important, something that has gravitas. So they'll have a "discussion" for a week on whether the first president convicted of 34 felonies is a "significant" fact. This is what brain dead "neutrality" looks like.
It's not like they're arguing over something emergent like pulling a drowning man to shore or something though. And it's a better system than the closed encyclopedias where the facts are whatever the company determines. So while it sucks that we have to have a discussion to tell the trump supporters they can't censor Wikipedia (again) it's better than the alternatives.
Wikipedia should turn the IP addresses to the police and the far-right net vandalism should be criminalized.
If you think the police are going to help fight the right I've got some bad news
The police aren't going to arrest themselves. C'mon!
Yup. Because those are the IP addresses they're going to go after and accuse of vandalism. Totally.
Good luck with that
