Austin experimented with giving people $1,000 a month. They spent the no-strings-attached cash mostly on housing, a study found
Austin experimented with giving people $1,000 a month. They spent the no-strings-attached cash mostly on housing, a study found
A guaranteed-basic-income plan in Austin that gave low-income residents $1,000 a month appeared to reduce housing insecurity.
- A guaranteed-basic-income program in Austin gave people $1,000 a month for a year.
- Most of the participants spent the no-strings-attached cash on housing, a study found.
- Participants who said they could afford a balanced meal also increased by 17%.
A guaranteed-basic-income plan in one of Texas' largest cities reduced rates of housing insecurity. But some Texas lawmakers are not happy.
Austin was the first city in Texas to launch a tax-payer-funded guaranteed-income program when the Austin Guaranteed Income Pilot kicked off in May 2022. The program served 135 low-income families, each receiving $1,000 monthly. Funding for 85 families came from the City of Austin, while philanthropic donations funded the other 50.
The program was billed as a means to boost people out of poverty and help them afford housing. "We know that if we trust people to make the right decisions for themselves and their families, it leads to better outcomes," the city says on its website. "It leads to better jobs, increased savings, food security, housing security."
While the program ended in August 2023, a new study from the Urban Institute, a Washington, DC, think tank, found that the city's program did, in fact, help its participants pay for housing and food. On average, program participants reported spending more than half of the cash they received on housing, the report said.
Wouldn’t this lead you to postulate that the housing crisis in America is real and out of control when the money you give them goes right into housing?
Is this how they intend to fleece America? Give people a guaranteed income paid for by their tax dollars, so it can go right into government subsidized housing, owned and run by a shadow company that the politicians and their buddies just happen to be on the board of?
Congratulations, you managed to make people having a place to live sound not just bad, but sinister.
"Kapitalet höjer hyrorna, och Staten bostadsbidragen."
The Swedes were calling out this game back in 1972.
Of course, our solution was to just stop subsidizing housing altogether and screw over poor people.
Whoa there, we already know the future of subsidized housing is corporate towns. Why give it to the people when you can just give it to their rich boss instead?
I feel guaranteed income amount should be based on government contracted rates for places providing something akin to a single occupancy dorm room. so food and shelter in a basic way is covered.
Who's tax dollars, it has to be a wealth transfer or the scheme won't work.
Texas doesn't have an income tax but it has incredibly high property taxes. In a very real way, this program is literally funded by taxing the super wealthy, including foreign investors. If you are a foreign national that owns a condo in one of the downtown highrises, you still pay property taxes.
Source: Former Austinite.
I had no idea there were so many people who were against a UBI on Lemmy. I'm honestly surprised.
There's a lot of effort to deny any previous UBI experiment as having even been done. Heck the top reply to your comment here denies this is even a UBI experiment. The line is usually the only way to do the experiment is to do it and that's the Socialisms so we can't ever know, sorry poors.
I've been surprised and super disappointed by a lot of the views I've been seeing in Lemmy comments lately. Anti homeless, judging addiction, fairly socially conservative, buying into the whole retail theft narrative, and the worst has been the misogyny framed as "realism" or some shit.
I don't know, it's not for me.
Just pay attention to the instances the comments come from. This account is federated with .world and I am always seeing the most awful takes on here and it seems like most of the time it comes from users there.
I have another account not federated with .world, but it is with pretty much everything else. There's fewer comments (rarely over 100) but it's usually actual discussion and not revolving around anti-humanitarian practices.
It's not a guarantee, but it seems very very high.
It makes sense....I think the FOSS/anti-big tech world brings together a weird mix of far-left socialists and also libertarian types (hence the anti UBI sentiment)
IDK, I'm a leftist, and am skeptical about UBI because it's more of a free-market approach to solving a problems, rather than just directly solving problems. I.e. the government could just build more and better homeless housing, and expand section 8 to cover more of the cost and more people. I'm a bit afraid UBI would be used as an excuse to cut social programs, in a similar way that school vouchers are used to cut spending on education and leave families paying for what the vouchers don't cover.
Plus lemmy has just as many shills and bots as reddit, that or it is the ultimate echo chamber, since you can ser pretty much copy paste answers on any controversial topics. The last one seems to be "LLMs are not real AI" (which, they are. Just not AGI)
This isn't UBI though. It's welfare. It just proves that people will use welfare support responsibly. A real test of UBI would be to give everyone in a community, not just a small pool of low income families the same amount (among other things). That ain't going to happen.
It's been done at a town level before, with the same results
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/universal-basic-income-ubi-map
I'd prefer decommodification of housing but UBI is probably a step in the right direction.
You're surprised that people who are far enough to the right to support genocide would oppose UBI?
It not that people are against everyone having the basics, it is that it mathematically makes no sense. As soon as you give everyone this money, not just a small trial you’ll see that it is immediately eaten in inflation, rent etc.
Much better is to make the first $1000 dollars not necessary. Free staple foods, free healthcare, free low tier usage on utilities, free local public transport.
But there's no difference between giving someone $1000 for food and providing that food for free.
Either way the food is paid for by someone, whether the government hands over the check and then passes out the food, adding a layer of inefficiency, or the government hands out the check and the people buy the food, offering freedom of choice.
I feel somewhat against it simply because I don't think it's necessary once you make a certain point of money. Do people making six figures really need an extra 10% or less on top of that?
Means testing has been shown to cost significantly more. That’s why I’m a fan of universal programs and not welfare programs (like the one in this study).
I would argue someone making six figures getting 10% more will have a big impact still. Give everyone the benefit, even billionaires. Using your argument, the billionaire won’t care about getting an extra $1,000 - that’s nothing to them. But no one feels “cheated” because you arbitrarily put the limit, and you know no one else is cheating the system because there is no system to cheat!
Paying for universal programs would require changing our tax structure, which I’m also supportive of.
No, they don't, but I think the idea is that the process of factually verifying someone's actual income isn't worth the waste of just giving it to them anyway.
And if everyone got this, rents would mysteriously increase by $1000 …
Fuck these landlords.
For profit housing and for profit healthcare are abominations.
Totally agreed.
Don't forget for-profit prisons.
Rents are being driven up by illegal collaboration anyways. This just like the inflation argument against minimum wage increases. Prices going up is not an argument against giving people more money. Prices will go up anyways.
This trope is dumb and you should feel bad for repeating it. It shows a truly shocking lack of insight into even the most basic middle-school-level economic principles.
EXACTLY! Which is why my Rent has NOT gone in up YEARS!
We all know that if this was a permanent part of the program, every revolving bill (mortgage, utilties, etc.) would all of a sudden rise to get a piece of that extra income. But because this was a temporary program, it probably only increased by the normal rate. So people mostly got a chance to use it without businesses getting greedier.
To all the people saying "hur dur it's just giving money to landlords":
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No it's not. People who would not have had housing were able to have it. If you think that's a bad thing because some landlords got paid in the process, you seriously need to have your moral compass checked.
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To those explicitly linking this to the idea (which is often cited but never backed up with evidence) that landlords (and mysteriously no other segment of the economy) will medically capture 110% of the value of any possible UBI program: This is not the evidence you've been lacking. The money wasn't given to everyone as it would be in a universal basic income program. It was given to people who were struggling. Of fucking course people who were homeless or near homeless spent the money on rent. The fact that people who become able to afford housing mostly choose to spend their money on housing just tells you how much people value having a place to live. It says nothing about how money would flow in a full scale system.
If it proofs anything its that when the poor are given free money people prioritize having a stable, healthy lifestyle.
Should be pretty standard if they want a society worth of peoples contributions.
Has your rent gone up, ever? Thats what's gonna happen with a UBI. Your landleech thinks you can pay more, so he can charge more.
Meanwhile government (nationalized) housing programs actually work and are cost efficient.
Rent went up 7 percent this year across my state, and it's already out of control to the point people are paying 4500 a month for a tiny one bedroom in the main city.
Don't think everyone getting a thousand extra bucks is going to change that drastically. And anyway, if landlords do do that, put in a rent cap in addition.
Has your rent gone up, ever? Thats what's gonna happen with a UBI.
You haven't said anything to establish a connection between your question and your statement. You're using the structure of a rational argument but your only evidence is "trust me bro". Fuck that and fuck you for trying to use sophistry.
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The sad thing is that high cost of housing is entirely unnecessary exploitation anyway. Just pass a law that transfers all house and land ownership into collective hands and erases all dept based on houses. I bet the vast majority of people would vote for it lol.
Who's collective hands?
I Holland we have woning bouw organisaties That are BY law obliged to offer services and structured management, checked by impartial state department and who can be relieved of function (transfering the properties to another organization or splitting them up etcetera). Yes, needs to be overview, laws and such. Maybe even subsidies for new buildings.
But NO PROFIT ANYWHERE.
Not for public basic housing. Come on, do we really wanna admit RUZZIA and CHINA beat us on this?
Yeah, surely nothing could go wrong with that plan.
Ever been to public housing? There's a reason it's usually shitty, and that's because the people who live there don't own it, so they have no reason to care for it because they could be moved somewhere else at any time.
The same is true of a lot of average apartment buildings, especially college housing, but they are rigourously maintained by staff.
Public housing in the US is rarely funded enough or maintained properly. It's almost a cliche in the US, municipalities purposely underfund public programs so they fail, to encourage privatization.
They spent the no-strings-attached cash mostly on housing, a study found
They had to hand it straight back to greedy landlords in order not to be evicted
Sorted that headline for you, nae bother hen
City with an absurd income-to-rental-price spread: "We're giving you some money."
People getting the money: "This will go towards the enormous debts accrued to my landlords who keep cranking up the cost of housing."
Economists: surprised-pikachu-face. "We thought for sure they would spend it on video games and fentanyl."
'oh, they have more money now.. time for it to be my money'
that happened with me with the covid checks. soon as those came out, rent went up--and up. those quickly disappeared but the rent increases are forever.
YSK that landlords in the US actually collaborated with a software company to drive up rents during that period. The software company told each company exactly how many units to keep off the market to cause large increases in rent prices across the board.
In Utah landlords all have carte blanche to do as they wish, they are all legislatures so they have passed laws giving themselves exclusive authority.
There are no tenant rights or protection laws in Utah. Where I used to live, the landlords would come in and take furniture or valuables that they wanted, whenever they wanted. Tenants have no say in what happens. You can be evicted without cause or notice here for any reason.
Now they've strengthened the landlords' grips with more laws preventing tenants from having the right to sue or contact landlords at all. It's just a great place to live all around.
The study didn’t give us the answer we wanted so we burned the results and cut social programs some more.
Didn't this basically happen like 10-15 years ago in Canada? I remember hearing about a similar study being shut down and the records sealed when the new conservative administration at the time came into power.
It's always "this small test just wouldn't work on a larger scale, so let's never try at all."
You might be thinking of this one
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Basic_Income_Pilot_Project
It's a GOOD thing this ended! If they enacted this NATIONWIDE my Rent might Increase! Because it OBVIOUSLY hasn't increased at ALL since I moved in thanks to not having a UBI!
State Sen. Paul Bettencourt sent a letter to the state's attorney general asking him to declare a new program in Houston as unconstitutional.
Of course they call it unconstitutional. It actually helps people and the constitution says nothing about helping people. /s
When people can afford houses, they stop being homeless.... Amazing
When will humans learn to attack the problem and not the victim of the problem?
We need first universal Healthcare, education and affordable housing, otherwise the money would go to the leeches(landlords,insurance, student debt).
Let’s find out if they can continue it without other states funding their existence.
*gestures to Rafael theodore Cruz at the airport
Texas didn't fund shit, Austin did. The government of Texas is actively hostile to the city of Austin.
There are two types of UBI supporters- Those that want UBI on top of the targeted welfare program, and those that want UBI to replace targeted welfare programs. If UBI was ever implemented, which kind of UBI supporter do you think the republicans and moderate dems would be?
The ones that would use it as an excuse to get rid of targeted welfare before not having enough votes to continue UBI.
Depends on the lobbyists and whoever is paying the media organizations. If companies realize they have more people to sell to they might lobby to have the former, and the majority of all beliefs are coming from medias spin on things. In theory, you could get Republicans who support UBI by simply getting a few lobbyists, and an anti UBI democratic candidate and poof, Republicans would swear by it. If you have the Republicans and the non moderate Dems, it could pass. Then once in place I imagine both companies and citizens would realize they don't want to vote it away.
Thatchers plan would have worked if and only when:
LAND IS PROVIDED FOR NEW PROJECTS (destination plan on national provincial and local level)
ALL INCOME FROM RENT TO BUY (or similar) IS SPEND ON NEW PROJECTS
ALL PROJECTS ARE GUARANTEED BY THE BUILDER (no excess costs for any reason : sign your profitable contract but then you are obliged to deliver exactly what is promised or you'll never get another gov project again)
Is the problem with housing really supply, or is it that it's an unregulated monopoly where land owners are allowed to leverage their monopoly for uncapped profit?
Depends. In Holland it's very clear, not enough houses are being built for the amount of new/young people needing one.
This is because the destination plans FORCE an area to remajn same usage, business ind, agri, forest/nature, commercial. There is almost no mixing there.
The new projects that do continue are almost always mostly for richer people.
And the poor areas arnt desirable..
None of it is fault of land owners.
At all Ever.
They don't even exist in Europe really.
It's all gov land and destined for something already.
Maybe in usa y o u can blame land owners..
This is one of mine. I started lobbying for it in 2015 when even all in our group looked at me like I'm crazy. Not so crazy now, am I?
Before anyone asks, Austin is very much so a small town in some ways. Many tech folk moved in for the dot-com boom and never left because we fell in love with the town. We also stayed friends and we communicate often, even as we all moved on to do bigger and better things. Sometimes, all it takes is an e-mail thread to make change.
If there is a pot hole on the street, and the city isn't fixing it, organize a few people. You might find that someone in your community has the tools you need, and someone else has left over materials.
Popular opinion is that if you give people free money they will use it on what enriches their lives.
Economists would probably just point out the fact that whenever you subsidize something the thing you're trying to make easier is suddenly even more expensive to the point where there's hardly a discount if one even exists.
Look at the cash for clunkers program. At the end of that car dealerships were raking in huge profits.
In this case if you give someone a thousand bucks a month, odds are landlords will pocket the majority of that, because housing is the biggest cost for everybody who is not already an owner. If everyone has 1000/mo more, they can suddenly afford 1000/more on housing. This may make minimal impact in areas with extremely high COL, but all the associated suburbs, rough parts of town, college areas... yeah those rents are gonna go way up.
example: 4BR apartment? Oh... I guess that's another +$3500/mo... after all all four of you are getting that money for free. New price: $7000/mo. It's only 1750/mo, or 750 per person per month because the government (our tax dollars) is paying that poor, poor landlord. How ever would they survive elsewise?
Look at the cash for clunkers program. At the end of that car dealerships were raking in huge profits.
That was an intended effect, as they were all facing enormous deficits in the wake of the '08 housing/car-note crash. Cash-for-Clunkers was supposed to be a back door bailout of dealerships in exchange for moving high emissions vehicles off the market.
In this case if you give someone a thousand bucks a month, odds are landlords will pocket the majority of that, because housing is the biggest cost for everybody who is not already an owner.
In theory, we live in a large and competitive housing market, such that people with excess cash can change landlords in pursuit of lower prices.
In practice, what we end up with is a handful of cartelized renters all setting a clearing price for the last vacant unit at slightly above what the median renter can pay. This traps people in existing leases, because they can't find a better deal anywhere else in the city.
This has nothing to do with the cash distribution program and everything to do with the functional monopoly on housing owned by a handful of mega-landlords.
That was an intended effect, as they were all facing enormous deficits in the wake of the '08 housing/car-note crash. Cash-for-Clunkers was supposed to be a back door bailout of dealerships in exchange for moving high emissions vehicles off the market.
Hot take: the dealership system is just a useless middleman system that should have been dismantled long ago as the "only way" to buy a car.
In theory, we live in a large and competitive housing market, such that people with excess cash can change landlords in pursuit of lower prices.
Boston will never have enough supply to meet demand. This is the one example I know very well, there are countless others. A thousand bucks a month in podunk land is enough to rent something entirely and that will 100% be exploited by landlords, after all it's free money for doing nothing.
Greetings from the average American family 20 minutes in your future:
Rents have gotten so expensive now that national bidding companies have arisen to address the crisis. Now renters can decide their own prices by bid-scoring on property and rental housing. Average monetary bid on housing in Austin is $5000 for a bachelor's pad but the money is only part of the bid-score. It also includes the usual credit rating and income reporting, but also your social media connections, the stability of your job (calculated by opaque market analysis firms), letters of recommendation from your employer, friends and family, and your overall "social credit" score (how many people give you 5-stars on every day interactions?).
This actually turned out to be an incredible democratization of housing! Landlords no longer control rents! We now have 1.2 million homeless in America but hey that's their faults for being poor, working jobs vulnerable to automation and offshoring, and especially the shut-ins, glad to see we're flushing them out and forcing them to socialize and be popular, or get thrown into the streets!
I love this country!
Chapter 1 from "Not Your Parents' Dystopia", coming to your reality soon!
Economists would probably just point out the fact that whenever you subsidize something the thing you're trying to make easier is suddenly even more expensive to the point where there's hardly a discount if one even exists.
That's a very convenient "fact" to point out if you want to eliminate all assistance for people who are struggling.
Now explain how corn subsidies had no effect on corn prices and definitely didn't result in everything being full of corn syrup.
Next explain how basic income is a subsidy.
It's not and he's wrong. UBI will definitely cause some inflation when people spend the money, but the money will come from somewhere (probably wealthier people or corporations). So that taxation will reduce inflation at the same time.
If the money came from a tax on rental income, it would not hurt renters. It would probably just be a circle: where owners are taxed and the money goes to renters, who then spend it on rent. It may help people buy houses because they now have free money regardless of whether they spend it on rent.
That’s a very convenient “fact” to point out if you want to eliminate all assistance for people who are struggling.
I NEVER mentioned this. I in NO WAY advocate for removing assistance for people. I 100% believe we need to look at the effects of something and tweak it to avoid people taking advantage of the system. The poors aren't taking advantage of it, the ownership class IS. They ALWAYS do. and we cannot stand for that any longer.
I would rather fully rework the landlord slave-ownership system we have today and make it so all payments into housing give you a share of ownership. Same deal with work - you work for a company and you get a share of ownership. 30 years of rent and you own your apartment. Live there for 5 years? You now own 1/6th of the apartment. One year? 1/30th. Let's really FUCK the "investment property" wealth.
Make it so whoever works at a business shares ownership equally based on hours worked there. Make it so no human can get more than 80 hours of ownership shares a week, or something like that. There is obviously a lot more thought involved in having a system like this where people are no longer just "workers" but partial owners **
Economists would not say that. There's a lot of cases of subsidized products not inflating. Generally for that kind of inflation to happen you would need a monopoly or similarly non competitive market to allow such rent seeking. (In the economic sense, not the housing sense)
Texas figured this out? Texas? This is a real low point. Yeah, this one hurts.
Just because Austin is the capital, you really shouldn't confuse it with Texas. Austin isn't Texas.
Source: I am a former Austinite and one of the long time lobbyists for this program. I started harassing my contacts in 2015.
Was this rental housing or save-for-a-down-payment housing?
Yes, as a homeowner, I am plenty aware $12k will not cover a down payment in a lot of places. Maybe this gave some of these families the boost they need, or tipped them over the threshold they needed.
Paul Bettencourt sounds like a horrible person. I hope his life is as nice as he is.
So the money went straight to the pocket of landlords. Cool.
You can’t give ordinary people money and not increase taxes on the rich. Otherwise it just becomes a wealth transfer from the state to rich people.
That's definitely the unfortunate part. The good thing here is that this not only stimulates the economy, it does so by improving the lives of people who really need it. When we hand the PPP loans, that money went straight into the pockets of people who didn't need it. It was mostly grift. This is the opposite.
Yes, while I'm all in favor of measures to reduce the disparity in wealth, I think this is a net positive in the short term.
Well, at least some people who needed it got housing along the way.
I'd rather transfer it to them indirectly like this than directly like we've been doing...
So the money went straight to the pocket of landlords. Cool
Ya screw them for not wanting to be out on the street! /s
Nice one bro
What… how do you think I’m blaming the individuals who got the cash? I would do the same if I were them, I don’t have a choice other than spending all my money on necessities. But isn’t that fucked? There will be less and less jobs, and the state will just keep giving measly amounts of money to us until we all become serfs. Working a month a year for the privilege of earning enough from the state for subsistence. While the rich become richer and richer until we are separate species and AI and robots advance far enough they REALLY don’t need us. Then what?
That's the whole economy. They used to call them "Haves" and "Have-Nots" because it's much more passive and absolving than the more accurate "Takers" and "Take-nots".
Yep let's give it straight to the rich, just like the Dead Kennedys said.
Efficiency and progress is ours once more Now that we have the neutron bomb It's nice and quick and clean and gets things done Away with excess enemy But no less value to property No sense in war but perfect sense at home
Edit someone doesn't like the Dead Kennedys. Which is what they are here for.
Agreed!
$1000 a month wouldn't even begin to help cover the cost of basic housing in Utah, I'm not sure what the situation is in Austin. I made a good salary but still wasn't able to afford a single bedroom apartment in Salt Lake, and now that rent has gone way up here, nobody can. In fact most former renters are now on the street.
Nobody in Utah can afford a house if they didn't already own one. Because of the outrageous prices, all the homebuyers are out of state millionaires who buy up property to rent out to other rich couples.
Maybe we should all move to Austin, if only they'd move Austin out of Texas and into a better state.
Maybe we should all move to Austin, if only they'd move Austin out of Texas and into a better state.
You're about a decade and a half too late on that idea. Austin is crumbling under the massive weight of newcomers (mostly tech). Housing, rent, traffic, you name it. It's no longer the haven of good jobs and cheaper living that it was 15 - 20 years ago.
I've read about that and all the influx of newcomers into Austin. It's the exact same here in Salt Lake (of all places). Young people are moving here in droves, I think mostly because there's tons of low-paying jobs available. That is - the jobs SEEM not all that low paying until you look at the astronomical rent and housing prices here. (IN SALT LAKE, OF ALL GOD FORSAKEN PLACES!!!!!).
"In completely unrelated news, average rent prices in the Austin area have soared by $1,100 dollars over the past year."
The good part about UBI is that this doesn't happen. There was a study from an African UBI program that showed no inflation at all in the village they provided funds to.
Maybe in a national version of UBI where you can't easily move somewhere cheaper this would be more of a risk, but that just makes it more profitable to build more houses, and increasing the supply brings the price down again.
I don't think the African village had Chinese megacorps snatching up available real estate for rent squatting. Although I might be wrong. I do feel that its an extremely different scenario than in the US however.
Austin housing prices decreased