Tesla sales are tanking in Europe

Reminder that the Tesla strike in Sweden is still ongoing.

the biggest player in the electric vehicle game is having a rough year.

You couldn't tell by looking at the stock price.

because tesla is basically just a pump and dump now considering the board are just musk stooges who greenlight anything he asks and investors are just musk cultists.
- I would characterize Tesla stock not as a pump & dump scheme anymore, but as a bet on Musk's position to extract concessions from his political connections. He has got his way already with Trump planning to end EV subsidies that mostly benefited Tesla's competitors (although Trump may have intended to do so anyway) and he might yet push against regulation that would threaten Tesla's market position in the US, like federal charging standards. He may also get Trump to impose harsher tariffs on Chinese electrical vehicles than he otherwise would, although such tariffs enjoy bipartisan support.
- Were stooges stooges before the Three Stooges? Or was it the Stooges that defined stooges as stooges?

As much as I'd like to, I don't try starlink for the exact same reason. (Although Starlink has other reasons why I'm not going to give them any money)

I had to use it for in flight wifi on Hawaiian. I needed to work, and that's the only wifi on Hawaiian. It worked fine, but I was annoyed that indirectly I was helping Musk. I would have happily paid 8 bucks even for worse internet. Thankfully I didn't have to give them any information to use it.

Good and I did not consider a Tesla when purchasing our first EV. We will continue to shop from the Tesla's competition until "Leon" rockets off to Mars.

overall EV registrations in Europe have remained stable as competing automakers gain ground.

Which competing car manufacturers are they so I can invest?

🤷 for some reason hybrids did really well in Europe this year. Probably because some countries have really shit charging infrastructure but people still want to emit less carbon.

The hybrids are bad though unless you live in a house and charge them at home. They don't have the hundreds of kW charging potential and if you charge them at work you often have to go move them during the day because you aren't allowed to leave them in the spot with the charger all day. Contrast this with an all electric vehicle that you can charge 200 km in five minutes at a gas tank.
Probably Kia and Hyundai

I used to be really keen on Teslas but a combination of Elon and stories of poor quality and after sales support have killed the brand for me.

The new model 3s are improved upon also in quality I heard and soundproof
Poor build quality was mostly ramping up to mass production. They mostly got that under control after the first couple years. At least for me, no longer an issue.

I don’t know about support - I no longer read complaints so that probably A good sign, they no longer have the excuse of rapidly growing sales taking all the parts, and they did put money into support starting a couple years ago.

The ceo on the other hand … you really can’t fix that
They could be the best cars on Earth and Elon's fuckery would be enough for me to do every tiny bit I could to keep their stock as low as possible.

Polestar sells something for a similar price and better quality, and without awkward associations with a billionaire nazi.

"but he's an entrepreneur genius" -s
- I like your sarcasm flag *nix style rather than DOS

No way I'm giving my money to that fascist, I don't care how good or bad his cars are

Damn shame too, cause the second gen Roadster is the car I've been dreaming of: hard top convertible, sporty, electric, faster than rabbits fucking. But I will never, ever own a Nazimobile.

I hope it at least inspires other automakers to bring back sporty convertibles. Until then I'll hang onto my 350Z Roadster forever. If that never happens, I guess I'll have to eventually convert the car to electric. I'm so sick and tired of every battery car being a god damn crossover. They're too big and corner like shit because of their size.
- There's going to be an electric Boxster in 2025.
- Nazimobile
  
  so no Volkswagen, BMW, heck perhaps no big car company?
"His" cars are dogshit for the price. The only thing they have going for them is they are fast. Which makes them dangerous since people drive em fast and then cannot stop, since huge battery equals weight. The build quality is dog, the rear door will happily close on your fingers, and sometimes it'll just brick itself because F you.
- And it'll watch, listen, and report on you the entire time!
  
  I don't see how people fall for these grocery-store smartphone appliances on wheels, but their predictable, dangerously entitled driving patterns tend to check out.
- I don't like Teslas either due to Musk, the touchscreens, the build quality and their anti self repair antics.
  
  But the model 3 is very reasonably priced for what it is.
  
  And just because something weighs more doesn't mean that the stopping distance is longer, because more weight means the tires are pressed onto the road harder, which means more grip.

It's slowly becoming a point of abject loathing. Many of us openly laugh at Tesla drivers, not in the least because they've taken the crown of "deadbeat drivers" from BMW & Mercedes a long time ago. See an asshole on the road? 66% chance it's a Tesla.

If you need to cut someone off, best to do it to a Tesla as the car is likely to prevent collision and you get to piss off a musk simp
- How about not creating dangerous and potentially deadly situations in traffic, no matter how much we disdain the cars brand or think the other driver is an asshole?
  
  You cut off the Tesla, the Tesla breaks, the car behind crashes and the whole thing might turn into a mass accident with dozens of injuries and some people killed...

European view: I always thought I'd love a Tesla when I make the move to electric.

Would never, ever buy one now and it's purely because of mister half a trillion election purchasing oligarch.

My parents got one somewhat recently (😒) and I have to say, features are also a negative point. Model Y door override is so inaccessible it might just as well not exist. No haptic control for most things except indicators as they are required by law.

Other than that it's a car like any other, so no reason to support Tesla specifically.

I got myself an i3 2017 a few months back and while you can tell it's a first gen EV and only basic non-BMW features (no Android Auto, only basic BT) I much prefer the i3. No random braking on the road, no crazy lane corrections. Not as powerful as the Tesla, but I drive in Eco, anyway.

I love Tesla for what they did for the EV market, but I'll happily attribute that to the original founders and engineers. M*sk was only PR; if the car was half as tech geeky they'd still be where they are today.
100% agree. I used to dream of owning a Tesla, I used to love Elon Musk. But now that I found out who he really is... meh, I'll never ever buy a Tesla.

I'm guessing Elon endorsing the "drive your car into a crowd of Christmas shoppers" party is not going to help.

His own cars have already been doing that more than enough. So maybe he feels a bond with AfD over this incident?
- Get ready for the "full self-driving" defence.
What’s the link between the AfD and the terrorist?

EDIT: https://taz.de/Anschlag-auf-Magdeburger-Weihnachtsmarkt/!6058115/
- He's from Saudi Arabia but he hates islam and thinks the german government conspires to turn Germany into an Islamic country. He has ties to multiple AfD officials as evidenced by his Twitter account.
- You mean apart from parroting AfD talking points and retweeting Elon Musk?
  
  The Elon Musk who endorsed the AfD before the man drove into the crowd?

Is there a point where Tesla's board will oust him to save the brand?

I personally will never consider a product he's attached to.
- I'd support him being attached to one of his rockets at launch
Nope. They are tied to the hip. From what I see the Board are just cashing out as it sinks.
Who else is on the board besides him and his brother?
- Even his brother tried to get him to back down on all this craziness, but he didn't listen.
- TBH I don't know. I assumed it was a normal board of directors that has a check and balance to the CEO. I should have known it wasn't.
  
  Edit- Actually, there is a traditional board. My question still stands then. https://ir.tesla.com/corporate
that would be really funny and i hope it happens

RIP Tesla. I will never buy one ever again and now champion against them amongst friends & family. Good riddance.

riddance
- Riddick
- Thanks, updated.

Handed back my model 3 leasing car in September. As long as they are the right wing nutcase is involved I will not buy anything from them again.

other automakers have stepped up to try and fill the gap left by Tesla,

Absolutely, IMO VW group has made a stellar job with the MEB platform, and are selling very good Electric cars at competitive prices.
VW group has of course the VW ID series, Skoda Enyaq and Elroq, Cupra Tavascan and Born, Audi E-Tron 4-6-8, Porsche Taycan.

This is a very impressive lineup IMO. And generally they have lower noise and better driving comfort than Tesla. Allegedly drive assist systems are way better than Tesla. No sudden phantom breaking, and no weird warnings about traffic that is completely irrelevant. Common for all is that they are all very good cars, without the weirdness of a Tesla. VW group has about 14 distinct models, so you have way better chance of finding a perfect fit than with Tesla.

Apart from that, if you don't give a shit politically, we also have some decent Chinese options. Xpeng is very attractive IMO.

The best selling EV here is the Skoda Enyaq, and that's absolutely with good reason, there is just about nothing to fault on that car IMO, it is also my own personal favorite, although I hate to go mainstream.

To quote Elon Musk:
You'd be a fool to buy ~~anything but~~ a Tesla today.

Soon, we'll find out VW's electric line is a scam and they're actually somehow gas-powered. Somehow. I mean sure you never fill it with gas, but
- I get the joke, but it's misplaced IMO, everybody cheated with emission numbers, and it turned out VW wasn't even the worst of them.
  The VW powerline is actually very good, and their electric engines among the absolute best in efficiency and build quality. They are also easier to repair than most, and definitely easier than Tesla.
To be honest, VW EVs are extremely boring and overpriced. I would rather buy Volvo, Polestar, KIA or Hyundai. The fully specced ID.3 is something like 53K which is insane for such a small car. Their cars are simply uninspiring.
- I've driven Kia, Hyundai, etc. Trust me, you don't want one of those. The Ioniq 5, one of the higher-end Hyundais, has absolutely shit ride quality. I test drove that, got back into my old diesel E-class (and I mean OLD. 2003) and felt like the E-class was the slowest thing ever, but 10x as comfortable as the Hyundai.
  
  I did end up getting a newer car, but it wasn't an EV, it was a 2019 C-class, because it was a lot more affordable than any new car in early 2022 and also way more comfortable than any EV that would've been "only" twice the price I paid. That's because VW or BMW didn't really have a proper lineup yet and MB and Audi were only doing really expensive models.
  
  Now that the Germans have somewhat proper EV lineups and Volvo is turning around as well, the Koreans are just going to be the cheapo EVs, much like they were cheapo ICEs. They can have cool designs, pretty good infotainment, etc... But the ride quality is abysmal because they cheap out on everything that isn't visible or numerically significant.
  
  There's so much in a car that the size alone doesn't tell you, nor do numbers. The Ioniq 5 has a McPherson strut for the front suspension. My C-class (which I've since sold because I now drive so much, I can't justify a car that has room to depreciate, I put 80k on it in the last 8 months), had multi-link front. In the Ioniq 5, I didn't feel very confident cornering at a high speed on a back road. In the C-Class, it was soooo much better. But then you'd think maybe if the Ioniq 5 wasn't as great for spirited driving, maybe it felt better over bumps? Also no, it felt MUCH worse. Way crashier. You could feel every bump in the road. And bear in mind, I didn't even have Airmatic suspension or anything.
  
  Now if you truly can go drive a Polestar, a Mercedes and a Hyundai and tell me that the Hyundai felt like the best car to you - go for it. But personally I've been ruined by the fact that I've driven extremely depreciated luxury cars for 8 years out of the 10 I've had a driver's license and a nearly new executive car the other 2. I can feel every single imperfection in a car's ride quality at this point lol
  
  Ah, an extra fun fact: The best car I've owned in my last ~8 months of driving shitboxes, was a V8 Cayenne. For years I figured "but it's just a Volkswagen with a Porsche badge, it can't be that great", but I was so wrong. The first gen Cayenne isn't as sporty as the newer ones, but it could still corner pretty damn good for a big hunk of SUV, yet handled bumps really well too. It had locking diffs and a low-range transfer case. It was an absolute beast in every way. Unfortunately, one of those ways was fuel economy and though it was OK once I had LPG installed, the tank was so tiny, I had to refuel it every 200 km, so it also had to go.
- Maybe you're talking about the previous models? The platform starting with ID.7 is amazing. Yes, I replaced my Tesla with an ID.7. Two of my friends waited a bit longer and grabbed the GTX ID.7 Tourer model instead - now voted best EV of 2024.
  
  The price of my ID.7 was slightly more than the much smaller Model 3, and way cheaper than Polestar and KIA.
- Personally the ID3 is a bit too small for me, but the ID4 is pretty good, but the Skoda Enyaq is just a tad better.
  If you want something more interesting maybe the Cupra Born is more your style.
  But the cars you mention also have their benefits, Kia and Hyundai have more features as standard, but it's not quite the quality of VW from what I understand from reviewers.
  If you want something that isn't boring there is also BMW, but they are a bit expensive IMO.
  Polestar is a bit of a mixed bag from what I understand, and they have financial difficulties. But some people seem to simply love them.
  There is also the Ford Explorer, which is also built by VW on the MEB platform.
  
  I agree VW and the Skoda Enyaq are a bit boring,for instance the speeder is calibrated so it doesn't jerk the car when floored, it's designed and built to be safe, practical, reliable and comfortable.
  I guess it doesn't get much more boring than that, but it is also makes it a very pleasant car to drive and use.
  
  Anyways we certainly have many great alternatives to Tesla now, also without having to go Chinese.
- Even the ~~Taycan~~? It's the only crossover I like. But yeah way overpriced.
  
  Edit- Macan not Taycan
- try a Taycan if you ever get a chance! not literally VW but definitely not boring
I hate crossovers but I actually like the ~~Taycan~~. I love everything Porsche makes. Too bad I'll never be able to afford one.

I didn't know they had an electric version of the ~~Taycan~~. That's awesome.

Edit - Macan not Taycan
- There has never been a non-electric Taycan, it has always been a pure battery EV
  
  It's also not a crossover. Sedan or wagon. And I can say firsthand that the wagon is outstanding
- I'll never afford that either. But if the xiaomi su7 was available here at the typical China price + 50%, I'd seriously consider that.
  https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2024-xiaomi-su7-review-international-first-drive/
I hadn't heard of VW MEB and searching it says they just cancelled it because of poor sales?

I have a Model 3 at the moment. I've had it for almost 5 years and it's generally been great - cheap to run, quiet and comfortable on longer trips but still fun to drive on back roads.

Recently it had its first major breakdown, and although Tesla service did manage to take care of it, it's got me browsing for new EVs - but now, buying a Tesla is not the foregone conclusion it once might have been.

First, they have been making some truly stupid design choices in their latest facelifts (deleting the indicator stalks and gear selector).

Second, their CEO has now gone completely mask-off fascist.

Third - after a few years for the competition to catch up, we now have genuine alternatives from other marques which are just as good if not better EVs than Tesla's offerings.

I think my next car will likely be a Polestar 2.

Tank god

Tank Girl.
- Tank, fish

How come those gods of capitalism aren’t even that good at running businesses? Seems like the whole thing is a sham.

And they always preach they wanna "run this country like a business."

It's so bleak.
- Everyone who says that is actually a fascist. Countries are not businesses and they should not be run like them. They are not profit seeking enterprises.
  
  The whole concept of maximising profits for the shareholders is toxic. Even for companies. It totally ignores the cost-benefit calculus of every other group connected to it. Employees, customers, environment, countries. There needs to be a change to this basic tenet in order for humanity to survive.

Best news I've read all day.

Somehow investors will spin this as a positive thing and share price will go up still lol

I'm not sure they can spin their way out of this one. The number of new car manufacturers that are spinning up in the last ten years compared to the fifty before it is mind blowing.

I see Tesla getting swallowed whole in a very competitive market in the next twenty years. Their early mover advantage is all but erased.

Edit: and the European manufacturers are catching up fast. I heard the new Renault is a super little car. There will always be some bias to buying European in Europe (as I'm sure is the case with other places, but Tesla had genuine caché for a while). That God awful cyber tank thing will never sell well here.
- I hope so!

But this is hitting EVERY ev carmaker in Europe. Germany ended its subsides to ev this December.

This has obviously impacted sales. Volkswagen, Volvo, Hyundai. All have been hit.

The only one that was not impacted that much was BMW.

This is nothing to celebrate. Ev adoption on Europe has been dropping steadily.

"overall EV registrations in Europe have remained stable"
Companies like VW are getting raped in China where a substantial amount of their profits come from though due to their current EV positioning and it's causing them catastrophic problems in the EU. Deiss the old CEO was warning about needing to cut back and refocus because of this and they kicked him out. Now the new CEO is saying the same thing but the delay has made it even worse, and the union, as expected, is fighting it. VW is in serious trouble right now.

Edit: Looks like new news on this yesterday, 35k jobs cut (25% of workforce), but no factory closures, and a reduction in 700k vehicles/y. Also no raises for 4 years.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/rapprochement-between-volkswagen-union-wage-talks-sources-say-2024-12-20/

From a climate standpoint, my gasoline car does indeed kill fascism.

It kills everyone. Fucking briliant.

And oil money is quite entangled with nazi money.

Go on drive your Ford? VW? Lmao.
- Maybe you and the ten douchebags that downvoted me could laugh a little easier if your heads weren't so far up your own asses.
  
  I bought this and knew Elon was crazy