Bernie Sanders: We Need More Working-Class Candidates to Challenge Both Parties
Bernie Sanders: We Need More Working-Class Candidates to Challenge Both Parties
The senator says in this exclusive interview that challengers to status quo politics can run in Democratic primaries or as independents.
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/22940159
Bernie Sanders caused a stir last week, when the independent senator from Vermont and two-time contender for the Democratic presidential nomination sent a post-election email to his progressive supporters across the country. In it, he argued that the Democrats suffered politically in 2024 at least in part because they ran a campaign that focused on “protecting the status quo and tinkering around the edges.”
In contrast, said Sanders, “Trump and the Republicans campaigned on change and on smashing the existing order.” Yes, he explained, “the ‘change’ that Republicans will bring about will make a bad situation worse, and a society of gross inequality even more unequal, more unjust and more bigoted.”
Despite that the reality of the threat they posed, Trump and the Republicans still won a narrow popular-vote victory for the presidency, along with control of the US House. That result has inspired an intense debate over the future direction not just of the Democratic Party but of the country. And the senator from Vermont is in the thick of it.
In his email, Sanders, a member of the Senate Democratic Caucus who campaigned in states across the country this fall for Vice President Kamala Harris and the Democratic ticket, asked a blunt question: “Will the Democratic leadership learn the lessons of their defeat and create a party that stands with the working class and is prepared to take on the enormously powerful special interests that dominate our economy, our media and our political life?”
His answer: “Highly unlikely. They are much too wedded to the billionaires and corporate interests that fund their campaigns.”
Good. The Democrats screwed Sanders over twice, and both times, he took it graciously and stood with them against Trump. Now that they have proved completely and utterly incapable of fighting the rise of fascism, there's no need to pull punches or play nice. There's no point in supporting the lesser of two evils if it is completely incapable of opposing the greater evil.
The Democratic Party is the political equivalent of a bloated whale carcass festering in the hot sun. Maybe if we stripped away all its old, rotting fat, we might find some use for its bones, but otherwise, it serves no purpose. Anyone telling you how it's going to swim again is either delusional or lying.
And now we sit back and watch everyone in this thread who shat on 3rd party for "wasting votes" throwing around stupid takes like:
- Erm RCV will prevent this from being viable, we should just try to fix the Democrat party instead
- Working class people don't have the time and money to make a grassroots movement. Clearly we need PAC money to win because that worked so well for Kamala and Clinton
- PAC money is superior to actual constituents and voters
- 4 years isn't enough for a new party to work, we need to vote Democrat first to kick the Republicans out before we do anything else
- 3rd party would only affect the Democrats and split them up
Also the most common one lately
- There's not going to be a 2028 election so why bother doing anything
We need to pay politicians MORE money. Everyone is like, no they should be paid $3.50/year cause they don't do shit, but if you have to support yourself, own a second house in the capital city, and pay a bunch of people to do the initial campaigning (signature gathering to get on the ballot, set up the first rounds of fundraising); WHO can do that? Only rich people. Working-Class people cannot afford to become candidates.
Pay them more, and also make it illegal for them to own any stocks, or accept any gifts of any kind.
Christmas is canceled.
Also, the house and senate should be way bigger that are now.
House maybe. Senate represents the states, not the people. They don't need more people. 2 per state is fine to represent the states interests. Give more power to the house instead of growing the Senate.
I literally know someone who's not running for a state office because even with the compensation he can't afford the expenses of actually being in office.
I feel like we should absolutely be providing congressional dormitories, at a minimum.
Barracks.
is is the same shit that’s always happened thou
The system is designed to keep the poor, middle and even lower upper class out. When one of them gets rich enough to run, and can't be bought out by one side or another cough cough stein cough the electoral system keeps them safely out of power. The system is rigged.
Finally someone daring to say what everyone on Lemmy hates
The senator says in this exclusive interview that challengers to status quo politics can run in Democratic primaries or as independents.
Terminally online leftists: "BERNIE IS SAYING NEVER VOTE FOR OR COOPERATE WITH THE DEMS LIKE WE'VE BEEN SAYING, VINDICATION"
Bernie's right, naturally. Change comes from the bottom up, from people volunteering to make a difference.
We need working class candidates working outside of the right wing oligarchy. As a party Republicans and Democrats need to die off.
Unfortunately the only way to get enough signatures to get your name on a ballot can only be achieved via rich donors and mass advertising.
We would literally have an easier time killing the big pary canidates than working within the system.
This is just plain false, and also, like, aggressively defeatist. It feels to me, whenever someone says something like this, the intention is to kill off any hope in the people who aren't terminally fatalistic about the prospect of any working class representation within the American politcal system, which makes you less optimistic than a Russian Serf in 1860, and the Wobblies and other trade unionists who were literally murdered and jailed.
Like, not to pick on you, because there are a lot of other people in this thread expressing the same opinion, but to whatever degree what you're saying is true, it is only as true as the sentiment you are expressing is prevalent.
I'm all for it but the problem is that working class people are too busy working. Maybe they can set up a PAC that gives scholarships to would-be politicians so they can challenge these douchebags and still pay their bills.
I think that is a great idea - I would donate to a PAC that promoted the election of progressive candidates. I'm sure many on Lemmy would do the same.
We can't do that since the rich have bought how democracy works. This is the same shit that's always happened though. They'll keep us just happy enough to keep their heads.
Change that to take over the Democratic party and you got a good idea.
Then people need to abandon the DNC and form another option. Reform from within is fantasy, the current power structure will never allow anything that's a threat to their existence
Dan Osborne ran competitively in a neglected Nebraska Senate race. It's very common for Dems to entirely neglect seats, even whole states, and let winnable races languish.
Sanders candidates can (and did) win races like this in 2018 and 2020. The problem is that once a seat is "winnable", lobbyists state money bombing primaries. Then you get shitty corporate Dems pushing leftists out and promptly losing those seats again.
I mean, running as a progressive within the Democratic Party already means you have to fight both parties. You have to fight the Democratic Party during the primaries, and you have to fight Republicans if Democrats somehow fail to keep you from winning the primaries. If you do win the primaries, you cannot count on the support of the Democratic Party in the general, as they prefer the Republican to beat you so they can run a centrist next time.
The problem with getting working class candidates is they are too busy working.
And lack the funds to run
Even if they had the time (it's not like there are people in the world with job schedules that allow for personal development) would that person really want to do it?
Call me naive but no normal person wants to rule above others or tell people what to do.
I mean we have examples with mods and DMV employees a d whatnot abusing the little power they have for sadistic pleasure
The problem will be money. Corporations can basically bankroll whatever candidates they want. It will be an extremely uphill battle given the state of campaign finance laws.
From the article:
“Should we be supporting Independent candidates who are prepared to take on both parties?”
[Sanders’s question] was also influenced by the campaign of former union leader Dan Osborn, who ran this fall as a working-class independent in the deep-red state of Nebraska.
Against an entrenched Republican incumbent, and without big money backing or party support, Osborn shocked pundits by winning 47 percent of the vote.
Bernie Sanders: I think that what Dan Osborn did should be looked at as a model for the future. He took on both political parties. He took on the corporate world. He ran as a strong trade unionist. Without party support, getting heavily outspent, he got through to working-class people all over Nebraska.
It sounds like you can still get pretty far by just addressing the actual concerns of the working class and offering real solutions to problems. Still an uphill battle, definitely, but maybe not an insurmountable climb.
You definitely can. It's not impossible, but people here on Lemmy are too defeatists
Can you share more about this guy?
I hate how this is the one man talking sense, and the DNC reviles him for it.
The DNC made some great retorts to his comments about Harris losing the election, though.
After Sanders stated the DNC "abandoned working class people" they were right to point out Biden has been the most pro-working-class president of Sanders lifetime on policies and protections, and that Harris proposed policies would have dramatically changed the lives of many of the poorest working americans.
I don't think either side, Sanders and the DNC, is wrong about this issue, I think Harris campaigned to attract right wing voters and lost her base of support as a result.
I said this here before: https://lemmy.ca/post/32815441/12768827 and stand by it. I think it would be beneficial to you guys
The problem is that it makes sense to us, the average Americans who would benefit from such things. But not to the elites who will be required to cede some amount of wealth, power and influence in the interest of such things.
Looks like half of Lemmy is part of that elite, seeing as they prefer to lose another election than to even try for a third party push
I think that's part of his point
It's getting to the point where a third party push seems logical.
People just want to move past NH having their primary delegates stolen, but that shit really happened. I don't see anything from the DNC that would indicate significant change. They have a candidate and that's who the candidate is going to be.
It's no effective at winning elections, but the do it's would rather have a republican than a progressive.
We need to demand the 2028 has strict campaign finance regulations. I can understand the argument we can't not do it in the general, but the primary is just Dem vs Dem. Keep the billionaires out of it and let voters pick who they're most likely to vote for in the general.
The problem I have with this point of view is that it describes the DNC as an enormous entity, when in reality they are a small organisation that mostly gets its financing from individual campaigns (especially the presidential campaign).
The issue the progressives face is not the DNC but systemic issues with politics in the US. A big issue is the reliance on campaign contributions by the rich. Another issue is the media environment. The DNC is just a tiny cog in a much larger machine.
when in reality they are a small organisation that mostly gets its financing from individual campaigns (especially the presidential campaign).
Since 2015 when Hillary literally made backroom deals to fund the DNC on the condition that her campaign was allowed final review on any action the DNC was going to take...
Ignoring that the reason it was bankrupt in 2015 was it worked against Obama in 08, and refused to help him in 2012.
Like, we are not at the point yet where "it is what is". These incredibly damaging changes are very very recent.
And that's not even getting I to the "victory fund" nonsense that allows people to donate to the chosen candidate via maximum state donations, drastically underfunding any state party who doesn't tie the DNC's line. Or that in the most recent election the DNC ordered a state to violate their state election laws and when they refused, their primary delegates were removed.
This shit is not how it always was.
We can not ignore modern party leaders destroying our party just because Republicans are destroying our country.
If we do that then it might really not matter what letter is by a future president's name.
Even if you think the wealthy haven't bought both parties already, with both parties continuingly pulling shadier and shadier "campaign finance reform". Eventually some wealthy person will realize it takes a billion to buy a general, but only like 10 million to buy a primary if the DNC handpicks the first 10 states and calls it before 40 have had their primary.
And that's the rub. Even if you don't think it's happened, it's really hard to argue that any random billionaire couldn't do it if they wanted.
Which makes this a perfect time to mention trump donated so much money to the Clintons in support of them pulling the Dem party right. That Bill and Hillary went to his wedding.
trump is literally the type of people who have been paying for neoliberal primary campaigns, and others like him are still cutting checks to Dems.
Ranked choice voting systems were offered in four states in this past election and were rejected in all four. If I'm remembering correctly, around $60m was spent campaigning for them. Two states have RCV already, one of which is Alaska which just narrowly avoided switching back.
No, now is apparently not the time to attempt a 3rd party strategy.
I think if we work towards ending electoral college then other things will fall into place just because people will be more incentivized to vote.
I heard 15million between NY and CA alone decide not to note at all because their vote doesn’t make a difference.
Think of all the down-ballot voting would happen with all those voters.
I don't think that's quite the strategy we need.
What we really need is a genuine grassroots movement with significant movement, like the Tea Party but not astroturfed, today gets more progressive in the Democratic party.
BUT
We need them locally, not on the federal level, because locally is where voting rules are established. The Progressives can then push for Rank Choice Voting. City by city, county by county, State by State, we get RCV implemented everywhere possible. This in turn breaks the Two Party System by allowing voters to pick third party candidates without fear of their vote being wasted.
The only problem is that the best time for this strategy was fifteen years ago, and not enough people cared back then to do it. The second best time is now, of course, but...
Just a few more decades of fruitlessly pursuing a pipe dream that we've set up as a prerequisite and then we'll consider not moving to the right.
Progressives should take over the Green Party and threaten to run unless they get concessions from Democrats.
Of course, this requires Democrats to care about winning and not just shutting out progressives.
requires Democrats to care about winning
Their goal is not winning or defeating Republicans, but to prevent leftist candidates, movements or organizations from obtaining any power. They are gatekeepers for fascism.
Last 3rd party push resulted in Bush and 2 wars. Instead of Gore the environmentalist. Voting 3rd party for progressivism is the biggest self own in history.
The Supreme Court is not a third party.
Idk. I think building a third party seems like a distraction when its pretty easy to just become an "Independent", case-in-point, Bernie Sanders. Find good, compelling candidates and run them. Small donor donations only.
Still asking for democrats to throw away their votes on a 3rd party because you think both sides are the same eh?
That’s how Trump got elected a 2nd term. But that’s probably why you’re still pushing that narrative.
Not every single person who disagrees with you is a paid shill. I voted for kamala and did so happily, and I'm very worried about the democratic party's ability to change in the way they need to also. At some point, we do need to upend the 2 party system, it has yielded only bad things.
I don't know the right way to do that. I don't know how we can do that with the least possible compromise, giving conservatives an advantage by splitting the progressive vote while using a voting system that favors two entrenched parties over outside candidates. AND ALSO the two party system is a problem this country desperately needs to solve.
The two parties are absolutely not the same, but that doesn't mean the democratic party is doing a great job of representing people's actual interests, it just means they aren't literal fascists. I dunno about you, but I'd really hope my political representation can be better than "literal fascists, or, people who kinda sorta sometimes care about issues that represent you, except all the times when they don't"
throw away their votes on a 3rd party...That’s how Trump got elected a 2nd term
While that didn't help, I don't think it was the cause. Last I checked, if you gave Harris the 3rd party votes, Trump would still win. Republicans had increased voter turnout, while Democrats decreased...and overall turnout decreased. So it was apathy and lack of votes that won.
But I'm busy, going off memory, and didn't check latest stats. So please, feel free to correct me.
Ref: https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin
That’s how Trump got elected a 2nd term.
Lol, no it's not. Have you even looked at the numbers? Third parties did worse than their already pathetic historical performance, and were inconsequential in the outcome.
Nah, the republican is gonna win again because the democratic party is beyond repair.
Not gonna happen as long as money is the key to political power.
Sounds a bit too much like "both sides".
Well, when you want people who identify as Republican and people who identify as Democrat to raise hell together, you call them both out.
I mean, one side is much much much more likely to endorse you as a working class if you try to run for election, but yeah the post removes as much context from his speech as possible.
Did Left wing Democrats launch their own party or "tea party movement" inside the Democratic party? No, they didn't. Sanders keeps getting elected as an independent, why did he never launch an actual alternative with candidates all over the country?
They can say whatever they want, they don't mind the status quo. Hell, Sanders is an independent that just happens to show up at all of the Democrats events? Give me a fucking break.
Did Left wing Democrats launch their own party or “tea party movement” inside the Democratic party? No, they didn’t. Sanders keeps getting elected as an independent, why did he never launch an actual alternative with candidates all over the country?
Probably because the tea party was funded by billionaires and there are no billionaires funding any left-wing movements.