TwitterBoy showing his blatant ignorance against one of the people who literally invented modern machine learning.
Nothing shockingly unexpected from the very stable 10D chess master genius of course, but oh my, how embarrassing it must be for all the people working for him.
It's the same whenever he gets shown up.
"I'll save those schoolboys with my robot submarine!"
*submarine won't fit in cave*
*schoolboys are rescued by a diver*
"Pedo guy..."
I'm sure he can be forgiven for not knowing the name of a scientist whose work his employees build upon
The fact that he didn't believe them when they claimed to be a scientist though
Ttereal tellers is ttattElonkows nothing about AI. Anyone involved in the field knows all of the big names because we read their papers, listen to their lectures, and talk about their models. He then goes on to be dismissive of work he’s not even close to understanding. It’s blatant ignorance, and Elon is used to just being able to power through his ignorance by either BSing his way past people who know no more than him or firing anyone who is actually qualified and as a result disagrees with him.
I wonder if Elon chose a timeframe of 5 years because Yann LeCun won the Turing Award in 2018.
I don't think he deserves that much credit
That gives him too much credit.
He's a dumbass. There's actually no rhyme or reason why he chose that specific number.
He isn't that smart.
The Internet as a whole seems a lot less interested in actually listening to anyone with credentials to back themselves up (Musk obviously included).
Literally, people will just "nuh-uh" a piece of fact for purely emotional personal reasons.Maybe it's that we made the Internet so full of disinformation that everyone is just automatically refusing to listen to others, maybe we have created a social group that just assumes they are more educated than everyone else cause they read some stuff in the internet.
Maybe all the smarter people with credentials have done the smart thing and left the internet, cause if I hear one more person tell me I'm wrong and that people totally explode in the vacuum of space cause they watched a movie. (Someone even called me confidently incorrect after I provided the research paper I cited when working on decompression in a vacuum), I honestly will think humanity has no right to claim themselves master of any part of nature and I will praise the universe for wiping us out hopefully Armageddon style, with an asteroid with a bunch of oil drillers on it.
My theory is that as people get more success in life, they tend to get "busier". They have families, careers, hobbies they've invested time in, money to take travel vacations, etc. They just do more "stuff". This results in less time and interest towards getting into arguments with randos on the internet.
The internet is extremely accessible and economically inexpensive though, so almost everyone can get on here if they want, regardless of any personal degree of any sort of life proficiencies.
Together, these factors result in it being the mass of humanity with some of the cream skimmed off. So that's what we tend to see around us, the internet is the skim milk of humanity. Then to avoid all the watery garbage so prevalent everywhere, we further clump into more segmented communities where we can find more like-minded people to associate with, simply because that's more enjoyable.
This is one of the reasons I think it's important to actually put effort into interacting on here, to try to help prevent it from worsening before we can address some of the underlying technical problems it has introduced into our societies.
Yeah
There are jobs where it's specifically to be in the Internet but if you are actually doing "important" stuff and/or just busy living you likely won't be trying to scrape through social platforms for a sense of cheap easy joy and validation.
I think in it's earlier days when it was the cool new social space it made more sense to show up and show off but if you have connections now you no longer need or maybe even want that kind of exposure.
are you making a testable prediction? it's not a theory, it's a take, hypothesis at best
It was true before the internet too, there was just less opportunities to witness it because you didn't interact with thousands of strangers at once.
Well... Yeah that probably checks out. I have met an engineer who was sure 9/11 was planned demolition even though we literally sat and did the math to prove it was essentially a damaged free fall with no outer explosions... And a biologist major who believed in creationism...
People are full of bad takes in shocking hypocrisy. This is definitely just the more public long lasting version of all those.
To paraphrase the post,
We people have always been ignorant, we just keep the receipts now.
Maybe it’s that we made the Internet so full of disinformation that everyone is just automatically refusing to listen to others,
We've made a vast social space where people can get validation and acceptance as easily as they can choose to be challenged and face threats to their own sense of self importance and their egos, and this isn't to sound disparaging, we ALL have sensitive egos and all feel a resistance to facing challenges, so what will we all choose over and over? It's natural that we seek the path of least resistance that also boosts our positive feelings about ourselves.
We're not a rational or reasonable species, we use rational and reason to explain our emotions but those explanations are rarely accurate or based in reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF98ii6r_gU pretty sure this is the one [from the series] your post made me think of.. My take away as relevant here is that it's not overcomplicated: If your a marginalized person and you know your rights, all the facts and appeals reason will be dismissed by those who buy into the fear-based moral panic propaganda about you, solely on your intrinsic traits.
That's not a two-way street.
Choosing not to engage with such people does not put me in an information silo in the same way that the population influenced by right-wing authoritarianism choose to stand on both sides of a contradiction and refuse to analyze the true root causes of their woes; that you can't class traitor yourself onto the side of the ultra-wealthy, and that their Supreme Leader will throw them under the bus at the first incentive.
A person who chooses to protect their energy from such a Facebook uncle, does not consitute a both-sides.
Not that I went looking for anyone pressing a "both-sides" angle...hoping we can leave it behind in terms of "information silos"
They haven't left, they just chum the water a bit and sit back and enjoy the show.
With hard vacuum though, I believe I remember you may get a couple seconds of consciousness before you pass out from the stress. (unless it's explosive which could knock you out instantly) You should usually get a couple minutes without any permanent injuries before death from asphyxiation. Any injuries would more or less be your larynx and eardrums, both from air getting rapidly pushed out. To minimize it you would need to be actively exhaling while opening the tubes to your ears (what you do when popping them) which will allow air to escape less forcefully.
Emboli and frostbite will however happen towards the end of those minutes. But with us being mostly a mix of liquids and solids, (with dissolved gasses) which take time to sublimate, (evaporation in a vaccum) no insta-freeze or red mist.
These types of people really need to stop being a part of the problem by getting off Twitter.
I never really used Twitter, but I'd start using Mastodon, if only to get people to start using Mastodon?
Gently dropping this here: https://nathanlesage.github.io/academics-on-mastodon/
Mastodon is really great in my experience. Very sane environment. It's not the same for everybody, but it's at least worth a shot.
which one.... Elon? (i'm all for it)
It's too far gone for Elon leaving to save it. Although it would still be nice if he did.
Yes. Exactly like every other non-nazi still on there must do. It’s the Modern equivalent to “don’t feed the trolls”
Amen
Honestly why do people even engage with this hack.
To attempt to wake up those people who think Elon is actually God's gift of mankind.
A wake up call on those people will have to go straight for their gut, instead of trying to throw facts at their faces. Even then, it's a hard task
I love how muskrat had to put "science" in quotes.
"*pffffbtbtbt* Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
I think that he should have avoided the interaction with musk, if he planned to convince Musk of something.
If he planned to educate the general public, his approach is totally fine, though.
He did it for a two-fer. He educated the general public ...and handed eloin his ass.
Meh, association taints.
Imo it just makes things worse, esp. considering the platform is twitter. Interacting with musk won't look good, given how manupulative musk is.
Also methodology.
I’m just imagining Musk banning his account once he realizes how much he just embarrassed himself.
Followed by:
Lawyer: What brings you in today, Mr. LeCun?
LeCun: I got banned from Twitter.
Lawyer: But I’m a patent attorney.
LeCun: I know.Beastie Boys “Sabotage” riff starts playing.
Why do people give that douche the time of day?
Because he owns a bunch of shit. That’s literally it. Nobody would give a single shit about him if he didn’t have money. I saw it put very eloquently like this:
Elon Musk is so poor that all he has is money.
his Twitter feed is full of things that would make you turn your head and act as it you don't hear anything if it came from a random person on the subway. the only difference between this guy and the "crazy people" you see outside is that this guy has money he doesn't deserve.
edit: i don't know why i said Twitter feed. this includes everything he says in interviews as well
Damn that’s a good line.
His money gives him influence and power. That's the real reason.
Because he is not your run-of-the-mill tech billionaire.
He's an asshole, yes, but you don't see Zuckerberg, Gates, Bezos or anyone else make the kind of big moves he does.
Because they don’t chatter in like a sub-70 IQ Harpy wanting attention?
Musk is a fraud. He was never accepted into a PhD program. He lied about his physics degree and was awarded one while not attending after daddy gave money to the school. He doesn’t know shit about science, engineering, or literally anything except how to be an edgelord.
Dude is a fucking loser and companies succeed in spite of him.
Ah yes. None of those others listed founded aerospace companies.
Does 80 technical papers in 2.5 years seem kind of off to anyone else? That's more than a paper every 2 weeks. Is there really time for meaningful research if you're publishing that often? Is he advising a lot of students? If that's the case, is he providing the attention generally needed for each one? Is his field just super different than mine?
In acamedia you usually get your name on most papers where you help a bit. And if you're the boss, you get your name on papers without even helping but perhaps supplying space, material, budget.
Yes, thought the same but have a quick look at this: https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=WLN3QrAAAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate Seems about right? But yeah, must be advising lots of students or something. He is rarely the first, second or even third author on the papers.
Importance of order changes by field. In my field, at least for in lab work: first is the main lab person that worked on the project. Last is the PI, everyone that helped goes in the sandwich. I'm unsure about collaborations between labs and at that point too afraid to ask.
There are some people in this world who are smarter and more motivated than we are.
And then there are people who get a head start when their rich daddy gives 'em a bunch of money and they get lucky with how they invest that money but pretend to be a genius anyway.
This is a fair question. But also, we're talking about one of the most influential minds in deep learning. If anything he's selling himself short. He's definitely not first author on most of them, but I would give all my limbs to work in his lab.
I'm not questioning his contributions to the field. Just being on that many papers. It just seemed like such a crazy amount of publishing.
Though deep learning has been on fire the last couple years. And the list posted included a lot of preprints and workshops, which I hadn't really considered.
He sounds like a hack.
Yeah, even if he is advising or contributing, the way he put it sounds very disingenuous like he's trying to inflate the number for his argument. Which MIGHT mean there likely was not many with immediately recognizable significance in that time (don't yell at me, I have not taken the time to verify this).
Either way, the way he responded comes across as very "I'm published, you're not, neener neener!" which is not a good look for anyone with a doctorates.
Also, genuine question, how significant was the contribution of LeNet-5 to the field of deep learning vs Neocognitron?
He could've just said "I have a turing award, you don't" if he wanted to show off.
He is also called one of the godfathers of deep learning, so I'd say his contributions are very significant.
Stephen King claims he writes 2000 words a day.
R. L. Stein supposedly wrote a new (admittedly short) novel every two weeks.
This Spanish romance novelist apparently wrote over 4000 novels in her lifetime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corín_Tellado
So sure, why not 80 technical papers in 2.5 years?
What an asshole.
And I'm not talking about the scientist.
college grade troll (who tragically has billions)
Bro Elon got absolutely ratio’d there when the scientist shared their papers. Like less people saw it and double the amount of likes.
That is very surprising honestly.
What does you’re going soft, try harder even mean in this case? I think that’s a troll, right? Right? I mean, even one solid theory from a paper can change the course of an industry. How do people think things work? I feel dizzy reading this whole exchange
Yeah, he's just trying to be dissmissive.
Anyone not knowing who LeCun has no idea about anything deep learning related.
The CEO of Neuralink? I'm betting he understands rocket science & e-vehicles about as well as he does deep learning.
Capitalism: with driving seats for the most gloriously incompetent idiots & assholes. Narcissistic aspiring oligarchs? Welcome to the land of plenty.
I'll teach that evil billionaire a lesson by creating content on his platform! Boy, I sure showed him!
Unfortunately, without anyone of note calling him out on that platform, it turns into pure echo chamber cult activity. There are so, so many people that are like lemmings, that will just follow that flow without doing any personal reflection or critical thinking. It's healthy to have voices of dissent, even if it's indirectly helping/enabling someone that's cultivating mindlessness among the masses. Hell, just look at how his idiotic response has over 2 million "likes". Granted, I'm sure 70-80% of those are fake, but that's still a frightening number of people who support someone like him.
When you fight Musk on his platform, you fight Musk by his terms. Allowing some criticism creates the illusion of legitimacy.
It's delusional to think you're going to change things from inside the platform. Would you go on Trump's platform to argue with MAGA cultists? This is no different.
Getting a smart comeback on Elon isn't the W you think it is; you're still using his platform and validating it and keeping it relevant. Just stop using it.
ConvNets
I like those. Those get shit done.
I think that this is the paper he's referring to: https://proceedings.neurips.cc/paper_files/paper/1989/hash/53c3bce66e43be4f209556518c2fcb54-Abstract.html
Ooh yes, that's a classic paper!
Why are we still sharing snapshots from twitter?
Let's start capturing more interesting conversations that are happening on Lemmy and other places!
THANK YOU.
I persistently work to get Twitter, elon, musk, cyber truck, Tesla, spacex, and every other x-affiliated bullshit out of my newsfeed, just for people to screenshot this shitty website. You like twitter, keep it on twitter. Cool.
I suppose I'll block the person who uploaded it.
edit:spelling
Nah. Brinfing them here is more diversity, and lets people choose.
People will use twitter and tumbler and instagram, even if they switch from reddit to lemmy.
damn I remember using CNNs back in the day for image processing. never realized truly how far back they go.
Edge detection CNNs, remember those.
Bu-but daddy Elon invented self driving cars!!!!1!!
Oh look, a self-driving dick (in many ways)
Part 2: https://mander.xyz/post/13598410
could we have a part 0 too? what led to this conversation?
Frankly, those two deserve each other.
"Chief AI Scientist", ah yes I have a degree in "convoluted autocorrect science"
