I personally don't understand the whole thing of a fictional character in a video game where there is absolutely no romance anywhere having a preference. I don't care whether my character in a game like Borderlands is straight, gay, lesbian, or anything in between so long as I can pop the heads off my enemies.
Don't call them gamers, that gives them credence and insults actual gamers. Call them what they are: insecure babies. There are many, many insecure babies with the exact same opinion that do not play games. They are worse than the gamer bros, because they're out harassing people face to face.
The problem isn't games or gamers or gamer culture. It's ignorant bigots. (yes, I know it's still fun to make fun of gamergate crap, that's why I still upvoted the joke)
The meme is drawing a difference between lowercase g gamers, who are normal people who play video games, and capital G Gamers™, who are insecure manchildren who tend to make up a vocal majority among gaming communities. If you disagree, spend some time in a CoD lobby, or on /v/, or in real life with men who spend their time playing video games. There are a lot more Azs than you think.
I really don’t see it much and I’ve been online gaming since the 90s. I think drawing attention to it like this meme creates more problems than it fixes.
Just ignore any trolls you come across. Don’t engage. The silence is more painful to the bigots than whatever logic or empathy you try to throw at them.
Gamers™ and gamers are different things
No real scotsman!
Not that I don't deny it, but are these things people think/care about? It's a video game, I can be anything depending on the game I am playing. I don't get mad or wonder why I have to play as a woman in some, hell I was perfectly fine playing last of us 2 which was a woman and gay. I can be a spirit or an alien and that's why games are so great.
I grew up with plenty, I still know a few through mutual friends. Every opportunity to complain about how "woke" games are these days is taken. If an lgbtq+ character is in any way involved, they immediately change any reviews to 1 star, start massively shittalking the game, and continue to play it while bitching to everyone and anyone about it the whole time, and for weeks after they finish.
In games that let me choose, I play a woman most of the time. Been mocked for it. Cool Bro, you play your way I play mine. Only I don't spend my time thinking of ways to try and make you feel bad for it.
When you can play as a mining ship captain in the year 3300 , a green plumber turned Ghost-buster in a world with kidnapping turtles , and a dinosaur all on the same day, like you said, who gives a fuck
There are definitely people who think about this. I bet this guy would. For context, this poor man can't get immersed into Starfield because it asks him for his character's pronouns. =(
I spent 50 hours in starfield and honestly I don't even remember the gender selector. I'm pretty sure it's just a little toggle in the character creator that switches from fella to lady to neither, which... Isn't that exactly the immersion this little guy wants? People referring to him as a him instead of a them? It's not exactly staring you in the face throughout the entire game. Makes me sad to think this rant probably got famous because this kid has people who value his opinion.
Are most video games protagonists straight? Cuz I have played way more games where the protagonist is mute and doesn't show sexual interest in anything at all.
Like... Is Gordon Freeman straight? Doom guy? Kirby? Capt. Olimar? Red? The Prince of All Cosmos? 🤔
I'd say that video games have the most asexual representation of all forms of media.
Kirby sucks like a nanny goat.
That statement has more to unpack than a therapist's office in Trump tower
The prince of all cosmos will fuck anyone who wishes to fuck him.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Me when I’m forced to play as a bishop even though I’m clearly a rook.
Why be a king when you could be a queen.
If you wanted everything in the video game to mimic your real life, just go outside. Video games have always existed as an escape, to put ourselves into a situation we'd normally never find ourselves in, to live a life we can't in the real world. If pretending to be gay for a few hours threatens your sexuality in a way that pretending to be a superhero for a few hours doesn't threaten your abilities, maybe that says more about your sexuality than it does about the game?
So many non-plumber people who were forced to play as plumber in Super Mario games. So many humans were forced to play as undead and orcs in WoW. Imagine the torture!!!
Oh, the game where you could choose between the furry-suiter plumber, or his occasionally crossdressing brother. Thats pretty diverse, right?
Well, Super Mario and WoW are opposites in how many options you have. Forsaken is one of the few I never played.
Although for fantasy games, some people don't want to play humans at all, because they're too relatable.
In a large portion of games I've played, there is no mention of the main character's sexuality at all.
But think about how much differently you'd play the game if you had that info readily available!
Furries when they're forced to play as a human 99.99% of the time.
You've obviously never played FFXIV or been to Balmung and it shows
The generic white muscled male, who can do anything the plot throws at him (with only a bit of fake struggle), and gets the girl at the end, is so damn overdone in every media. People talk about characters being Mary Sue when John Sue is way more common.
I want variations in my fiction! All kinds of genders, preferences, cultures, opinions, and species. The only rule I have is for the fiction never to encourage cruel acts IRL.
Avatar TLA is pretty good at diversity
I'd say the avatar series in general is good at having diverse characters who are complex. I know Korra gets a lot of shit but I personally really liked that they tried to have an avatar actually suffering from mental illness.
That was a coincidence, I've just started watching it! Season 2 now. Love it so far. But Sokka don't deserve being such a buttmonkey, considering how often he is right.
Have you heard the good news of our lord and savior She-Ra (2018, Dreamworks and Netflix)? Or Daria (1997, MTV)?
I don't understand people who complain about things like this.
Just don't play it. Easy as that. No conversation needed. Go play something else. There's only an infinite number of other options that you can spend your time on.
Representation matters.
The more it's shown, the more it becomes socially acceptable.
Totally fine.
The person you replied to didn't disagree though. If someone doesn't want to consume something, no problem. Ideally they just shut up about it.
I've been thinking a lot about this of late, mainly around TV series and movies.
(As a side note my own morality on all of this is comes from having lived my early adult years in The Netherlands: for me all sexual orientations are normal things, same as eye colors, height and so on, so there is no "right" or "wrong" sexual orientation, just like there is no "right" or "wrong" eye color, and sexual orientation is not even important outside a sexuality context)
I agree with you on that: show it as normal and people will start seeing it as normal rather than give some disproportionate importance to what is just another human characteristic that varies from person to person, which IMHO the best way for everybody to treat people equally independently of sexuality - only a nutter would treat somebody differently because of, say, eye color, and as I see it in the ideal world it would be just the same for sexual orientation.
That said, forcing displays of sexuality or sexual orientation isn't the way to go, IMHO, because it keeps the whole thing in this special pedestal and goes against normalization of it because it does not treat it as normal.
Unfortunatelly a lot of TV series and Movies of recent have forced displays of non-majority sexual orientation rather than just having it as just as normal as all else - say, some otherwise asexual character is made to explicitly be gay or some other non-majority sexual orientation for no actual story-related reason - although there are a few that just portray it as "just another bunch of people" (say, one of the couples in the neighbourhood happen to be gay, and they're living life like everybody else or somebody just happens to be attracted to somebody else of the same gender and it makes sense to show it as part of the story) which is how it is in real life, at least in civilized countries.
It all feels like the makers are preaching to us through this medium rather than the whole thing just being a representation of "normal life" (in the story setting) with all the range of normal characteristics that humans have (which naturally includes a range of sexual orientations).
(Mind you, I also think unecessary emphasis on the sexuality of straight characters is ridiculous: beyond what is relevant for the story in terms of how it affects how characters relate, I don't see why straight people's sexuality has to be highlighted).
I think we should strive to display the variety of the human condition without actually putting things like sexual orientation in a pedestal and treat it all as special (hence, by implication, not normal). It's not easy though, especially in countries like US where morality has been picked up by Politics and thinks which are absolutelly normal human characteristics have been fetishised beyond all logice and turned into battlefields.
All that said, in story-driven games and other media, were there is emphasys in human relations, you'll almost always end up with sexuality involved, if only because sexual attraction is a frequent drive for the how people relate and act around each other so it's a bit harder to have a normal range of human behaviour there without seeming to be forcing anything.
Imagine being forced to game. What a world that would be.
Other than RPGs that let you choose, what games have you play as a gay protagonist?
The Last of Us, Life is Strange, Tell Me Why, and Celeste come to mind.
I honestly find it more awkward when you play a woman who has to have sex with a man. It seems to be the default that female protagonist are lesbian or just never fuck at all.
Assassin's Creed Odyssey was especially jarring. Cutscene, suddenly you've had a kid. What?
what games have you play as a gay protagonist
Dreamfall Chapters, one of the three main protagonists you play as is a gay man.
If you can believe it, Super Lesbian Animal RPG
I was thinking the same thing, I imagine there's an indie game or two out there but the dude bros probably aren't playing those. Celeste came to mind but that's not a gay protagonist so much as a trans one.
Celeste is also one of those games where the story has nothing to do with the character's sexuality, and you wouldn't know if you didn't look it up.
In Hades on the other hand, Zagreus is as bi as... an ancient Greek demigod, I suppose. You can romance a female Fury who loves strappy leather and whips, or the literal God of Death. Or both at the same time, even.
However I feel like those who could have judged it may have given it a free pass because, well, it is ancient Greece.
Last of Us 2? I think? I never played it, don’t have a PS
Ah! I feel so dumb I didn't think of that one, one of the best games ever.
First one as well. Ellie is gay. Confirmed in the dlc for the first game, the last of us 2 has Ellie in a relationship with a bi woman and there's also a trans character in it.
You do. Don’t play it, though, it ain’t good.
Idgaf about the orientation typically. But if it's gonna be explicitly called out, then it better be significant to the character's identity, otherwise it's just meaningless attempts for the developer to ingratiate themselves with the LGBTQ without so much as providing a representative character of substance. I can't think of any examples of these off the top of my head, but there were some games and/or shows where I lost interest because every character was whatever different flavor of sexual and I was just like "this contributes nothing at all to the story, who tf cares about that shit?"
then it better be significant to the character’s identity
I was saying the same thing a few years back, but now I don't even think it's the case. I think it's more like "if it's significant to the character's identity or the game's world, make it make sense".
For example, Cyberpunk's Judy was a great character. You could have several full playthroughs, and wouldn't know she was into girls if you didn't try to jump her bones that one time. You could maybe infer she was more than just good friends with that other character. And that's how it should be. I mean in normal conversation it comes up very rarely who are you into sexually.
All I'm saying, it's not natural in real life to know who everyone would do in real life, and it's not natural in a video game.
Eh, I've seen plenty of attempts of character having a heterosexual tendencies while there is no need for them. Like tons of Disney movies.
If people don't get bothered by those, then they shouldn't be bothered by LGBTQ+ characters having their sexuality shoehorned in.
In the end, a character is a character. And there are people acting extremely flamboyant in the real world, so why wouldn't they be allowed to exist in media?
Recommend looking into "mirrors, windows, and sliding glass doors" by Dr. Rudine Sims Bishop for academic discussion on it. TL;DR it's good for kids.
I have a story plan I'm tossing around, and trying to decide something around this. It's nothing so complex - basically, there's a nation that has historically been extremely homophobic, and as a result, a mid-sized cabal of defectors that the book follows are gay. One of those situations where an observer (in or out of universe) could tiredly claim it doesn't matter to them, except that it apparently does matter to this fictional nation.
That's the perfect counterexample, because their sexual identity is directly tied to their motive in the story's conflict. That is the kind of writing that deserves respect.
The industry has long invented a near-perfect solution:
MAKE IT TWO LESBIAN GIRLS
- They are gay
- They are loved by straights
- Straight girls who see it invariably turn bi
- Yay!
The only side still uncovered is gay men, that's all.
Yea.. fuck me I guess?
They did try to bring fear effect back, but they still pale compared to the originals.
On the realm of porn games at least, gay men are well served (provided you are also a furry).
Or like the bara body type if you're not a furry
further proves that all programmers are gay furries
I don't give a shit who or what I play as, as long as they're bad-ass
Idk, I don't feel like I can relate to some bad-ass. /s
Then just relate to the ass-bad characters
B.bbbb-but if I see it then I might catch The Gay! We all know that the moment you see or hear anything even remotely related to lgbtq+, you checks flash cards immediately burst into dance while singing Queen and waving a pride flag.
I play a woman named Vala (Mal Doran) or Adria in 99% of the games that let me customize. Because every other game I've played is always a generic male character doing generic action things.
"I've
seen that movieplayed that game before" - Jordan Peele, if he were a gamer.if i'm exposed to lgbt content i might be forced to confront that my repressed attraction to hairy man ass actually means i'm gay, and that's much too frightening a prospect
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic had a lesbian character, with a fully developed romance with the player. Devs were forced to nix it, still there but requires a lot of work to unlock. First gay character in Star Wars canon, although I guess Disney owns our imaginations and that doesn’t count anymore.
Jade Empire is another BioWare title that you can be gay in - if you play as a man, there is a male romance option which basically requires a guide to do right. He won’t give you a hint there’s an option until you actively piss off every female romance option.
That was gay gaming until the 2010s. We couldn’t get married until the Sims 3.
Yeah, Hollywood pandering is annoying and most of the time hollow. “The henchman from Beauty and the Beast is gay now!” But being able to make my Skyrim dude marry another Skyrim dude is great. I was early in transition when the Dragon Age with a trans guy came out - in a world where I was this alien in-between thing people didn’t understand, having this world where I could be normal was wonderful. Heck, Old School RuneScape upgraded their quests so you didn’t have to change your character to female for a quest and could be gay - I cried like a silly idiot.
Video games are escapism and queer people deserve escape too. There are enough stories for everyone.
That was gay gaming until the 2010s.
Mass Effect is from 2007.
Yeah, and Fox News went on for weeks about how horrifying the sex was. Mass Effect letting you be queer was a Big Deal at the time - even more so than the het soft core porn that was in God of War.
I can identify with Mario much better than these new “woke” characters because he has no discernible personality and nothing he does ever makes any difference to his world.
One of my favorite games makes no mention of the main character's gender, and the main character is always depicted in an outfit that is a sort of cross between a spacesuit and worker's coveralls. And it doesn't make one bit of difference in the game.
Satisfactory?
Yup!
among us?
The closest to sexuallity the character I'm playing at the moment can get is necrophilia (gay, straight, group sex - up to the player really) and I need to abuse the engine a bit and use my imagination.
Granted, in single player Project Zomboid there aren't any other living humans.
Am I supposed to be offended now because I had to play a RC car in ReVolt? Please.. Games are about having fun, not to make a political statement
I kinda like political statements in my games, and honestly I'm actually fine with fighting a meme war with the super-straights.
Admittedly I'm bi so can enjoy anything but I'm confident queers have enough creativity and talent to create some genuinely amazing narrative gaming experiences. we should be collaborating on open source homoerotic experiences and immersively gay open worlds in a way that puts the corporate friendly triple a studios to shame.
I haven't been inside any triple a gaming studios but I've talked to a lot of catboys and daddydoms online who have decades of experience in the tech industry so I know we have the expertise and intelligence to make it happen if only we can as a community find the will.
I like political statements in my X sometimes, and sometimes I want to use my interest or hobby as an escape from all that shit explicitly. Neither is wrong imo, the only thing I don't like is when they suddenly switch (most often an apolitical comic or band suddenly releasing a political issue or song, it's usually not the other way around, and for some reason breaking my escapist immersion irks me more than a political comic suddenly doing some apolitical issue or artist/song), but of course it is their right to do so, as is my right to hold my opinion and not listen to the song or read the issue.
Funny thing about re-volt is that you really are playing as an rc car, not even a person piloting the rc car. Iirc from the lore the cars are sentient.
As a bi person, I never face these issues. Everybody is sexy.
Hey hey. :p
This picture fits the comment so well. A calm person in a red flamboyant suit with makeup right next to an emotional but overall average person going on a rant. Well done.
What game is he talking about?
How about just playing the story as intended. Not everything has to be individualized.
But this meme is specifically talking about ONE game where the main character is gay, most games aren't individualized but some are and they're usually straight while this one is potentially the only gay one and people that complain probably just shouldn't play it
I guess a solution for both would be to always have an option but would make it harder to craft certain sort of stories.
I'm not trans at all, but sometimes I choose to play as a girl just to make real men mad, such as in laser tag (that's a very obscure TheOdd1sOut reference). The fact that I can't do that in Pokémon Red, Green (the Japan exclusive one), Blue, Yellow, Gold or Silver is kinda silly.
I usually choose to play as the girl because devs typically make girl characters have much better customization options or just character designs. Not always but has been a trend i noticed a long time ago.
Like choosing outfits or hairstyles.
Theres usually a lot more options to choose from and also your choices usually are more noticeable when you use your character in game.
Im happy that devs seem to like to give lots of beard styles now so that helps me find more options that i like for male characters
Agreed.
Also, not enough downvotes.
I wish all the options were just available to whatever body type you choose instead of being restricted.
Also, forgot to say theres almost never make up choices for male characters. By choosing the female character/bodytype, especially in less fancy games, the way a characters face looks is usually a lot easier to finesse if you dont like the default options you get. And im refering to just basic bone structure/sallowness of face.
A lot of preset male charactures just look lifeless or hungover
Keep your autogynephiliac Pokémon fantasies to yourself.
I don't see an issue, if 99% of the people are straight, and the goal of your character is to put the players in their shoes, then making them straight (if sexuality is in the game for whatever reason) is the right choice. Btw I'm not straight
Your numbers are off. The proportion of straight people is closer to 90% in western countries, and this is likely an overestimate as other sexual orientations are still stigmatized in most countries (source).
My numbers are in reference to the post
As a straight guy, I think I can relate better to a gay woman in an RPG than a straight woman. Romancing men is something that knocks me out of the thing still, more than anything else about playing a woman.
That said, about most games IDGAF. It's not like straight men would not play Tomb Raider because the main protagonist is a woman. And even some RPGs, if the female voice actor is better, or the story makes better sense with a female lead, then that's that.
God forbid any game doesn't cater exclusively to the greatest size group. Why not have representation in games proportional to the real life people that play them? If all you care about is plurality, then every character should be straight, Han Chinese men. We should cater to the maximum amount of people, right?
Yea pretty much, unless the point is to highlight an aspect of culture like setting your game is Egypt and including Egyptian mythology and history, don't alienate the majority of your audience, introduce them to something different
I would disagree.
Make that maximum amount of buyers.
It's not party catering. Or art. It's a money business that has to create games that sell, so that the developer can get paid. That is the main goal. If there is room for a message, without alienating buyers, that's also an option.
Anyhow, we have robots, those sell. We have aliens, they sell. We have unidentified that sells. There's elves and orcs, which sell. Bunnies and hedgehogs. Various made-up things. Tons more. They all sell copies. Find a way to make it profitable, and it will happen. It's not about representation. And it never will be. Unless it makes enough money to make more after that.
It's clearly not about diversity. Capitalism isn't about demographics and equal representations.
That lies in demand. Create actual demand, and game developers will follow. They always do.
Sounds like a pity contest.
Its more so none of us complain that we play straight characters. Because it's not a big deal. We get straight people exist. We don't hate straight characters. So if we can do it and be perfectly fine and not feel like it's being shoved down our throats, then why can't straight people play gay characters? Yall get the vast majority. Just play this one with a gay character.
Or don't. Theres thousands of games that come our every year. So much that I could make a list of games that have come out in the last 2-3 years I was excited for, never got around to, and will probably never play, because as an adult I just don't have the time to play all the games I want to.
We have so many, that if yall stopped focusing on the one few with gay characters, you can find plenty of others to enjoy. Why bitch and moan once we get a game with gay characters?
Half the time it's not even main characters. I remember seeing YouTubets throwing a fit because one side mission has you help a male high-school student ask another boy out to prom. Completely optional. Easily skip able. You do the mission, and them move on. And that was too much. It's not even when we have a main character. It's when we exist.
Boulders Gate 3. The option for a queer character is there. The option is too much.
Boulders Gate 3. The option for a queer character is there. The option is too much.
Could you elaborate? I only ask because i havent installed the game yet and dont understand what you mean and would like to know how it will affect game play. What does too much mean here?
Much appreciation if you do answer but thanks anyway for saying something if you dont want to.
am play as [._.]
