Survey says half of developers consider VR market on decline or stagnation
Survey says half of developers consider VR market on decline or stagnation
Developers speaking to the Game Developers Collective seem to think the VR games market has hit a roadblock, even with this year's launch of the Apple Vision Pro.
I imagine the insane price to entry is a big thing.
I had some disposable cash so I went with the index, I love it don't get me wrong but, 1k is super fucking steep for an enjoyable system, and that's ontop of the requirement they do it right when they make a game, many of them take vr as a minority and you can tell when a game puts it on the side burner
I have an Index also, one thing I find frustrating is that because the Quest has such a dominant marketshare and packages games differently, some smaller VR games and experiences I see seem to be only available as an apk file for Quest sideloading and there is no straightforward way for me to play them.
The main reason I don't use it more though is I never got past the physical discomfort, I still feel nausea playing most games for more than a few minutes, and headaches from the pressure on my scalp/face if going longer than that, ie. trying to watch a movie with the headset. So that basically means I'm not going to just spend a lot of time passively chilling out in VR, it has to be some specific thing I want to do that feels worth it to push through the discomfort involved and can be gotten through relatively quickly. Mostly that ends up being just Beat Saber.
You don't need anything like that much for a Quest 2/3. Quest 2 is obviously a bit outdated, but I still have fun with mine.
I couldn't use the quest, it seemed to be on par with the psvr in terms of frames which gave me massive motion sickness
Also a lot of people are lazy. VR requires you to move more than playing flat games. Also it requires a decent PC which is an added cost. As you said - when it works (Payday 2, Alyx) there is nothing better. When it doesn't, you can end up with physical symptoms.
Even though Facebook is a terrible inhumane corporation, they have the best product because it is lightweight, can be used without any base station and can be used without a pc-link.
The fact that a VR set requires at minimum a 5x5 feets space with a computer within the vicinity is definitely hurting the VR market.
So I just hope that we get something akin to the Quest but without the evil corporation bit.
When I played Elite Dangerous with a VR headset, man was it magical. But I won't dedicate a small room and a PC just for that experience.
Yup, $1k for a decent headset, $1k for a decent GPU, and you also need space to play. It's a pretty big barrier to entry before you even get into the limited selection of games.
My flight sim would say otherwise if it had a mouth. Also if it had a mouth..... Uhhhhh.... It might be another kind of sim.....
people choose consoles over pcs for comfort
people choose pc for its capabilities (and for some, a different kind of comfort)
people choose vr for the experience only - and it can get old quite quickly because the market is too small - not enough 'content'
It's only that way because developers don't seem to be, you know... Developing shit for it.
Like, I love a lot of what's available and the tech itself is great; but there is no killer app. There is next to nothing but novelty bullshit being made. Even if Meta wasn't the one with the cheapest headset, people wouldn't necessarily be buying into VR because there's not really much to do with it yet.
One Half-Life game, a chatroom, and a bitching rythym game isn't enough.
It’s killer app to me is sim racing but it requires too much additional investment
What, like a wheel and some pedals? Or would you go full-on actual car stuff? I met a guy once who turned the entire back half of his trailer into a plane cockpit for his flight sims. Had actual instruments and switches and stuff. I'm sure with what it had to cost, he could have just bought a real plane. lol
Wearing a headset isn't appealing to me. I'd rather get a curved screen or more screens to be more immersed.
VR always seemed like a gimmick to me. I ended up with a wii instead of a PS3 or 360 as a teenager and it made me bitter and resolved to avoid anything like motion controls or gimmicks in future purchases.
Not that the wii was a bad console but I ended up playing the virtual console and gamecube backwards compatibility more than anything else.
I enjoyed my Wii well enough, but my PS3 got the most play out of the three.
VR is absolutely incredible though. It’s hella expensive for a nice kit, but my mind is blown every time I strap into my Index.
I mean the hype has died down but I think it's rather that VR is too expensive right now. I want VR but I don't want it $500 much to get a novelty item.
I think using it as a big ass screen would be nice and I really want to Serious Sam and Subnautica on VR. The immersion is really good for VR and I've liked it a lot every time I've played it.
Still, you need a decent space in the living room. A good graphics card for the frame rate and the expensive headset and motion trackers to get the full experience. That's a lot to ask for with the current economy.
I personally don't feel like spending 700 or how many euros to play beat saber on my ps5.
Other games that might be awesome in this is ones were you don't need to move around but benefit from being able to look around, so flight sims, driving sims, but there the chair setups are better imo.
Can't really think of much else, that's why VR is on the decline, really limited number of fun games to be had, or it would require some paradigm shift, like a strategy game but you are playing on the inside of a globe, but then that game would have to survive on being a VR exclusive.
More games and a Matrix-esque visual file manager where you could walk through various libraries of documents, files, videos or pictures in 3D space, or proportional size like WinDirStat would be cool.
The lack of good games has really made VR hard to enjoy. I have five good evergreen titles and not much else.
I would use that for sorting my porn folder (C:\Games\JazzJackrabbit)
A VR mech game could be so baller. Also a remake of Black and White would work well. But generally yeah it's just not a great medium for most games and while we have a lot of promising hardware we're struggling to find ways to use it intuitively
I think after the bubble breaks it does down a bit well see some groups take their time to build really functional stuff. We don't have good standards on how to interact in VR and it shows. We don't have enough data on how to make people less motion sick. Basically the hardware is there but the software isn't and that'll take more time than we've been giving it, imo
Realistically though I think the fundamental limits on how you can interact in VR means while there may be a strong niche market, I don't expect it to be a mainstream thing. Even if the prices drop a lot and the headsets get smaller there's still a lot working against them
A remake of Black and White would just be amazing, period
I use it for sim racing sometimes and it's amazing to feel like I'm in an F1 car or something. Until I get nauseous after 15 minutes or something. It's also a bit of a hassle to set up. That being said, maybe it would be cooler if I got into beat saber or something.
Was it over hyped? Maybe. But it's still a cool technology and I'd be sad to see it fall into nothingness. I don't see a future where everyone is wearing VR glasses, but it's still a very neat thing to enjoy every now and then.
I think it would take off if Facebook wasn't involved
I’m not going to lie: I would own a Quest 3 already if it didn’t have Meta all over it.
Saaame and I have an index and a WMR kit hahaha. But in my house, no Facebook hardware or code on any machines.
..I miss beat saber. I’ve been too lazy lately but I have all the parts I need for a quarantined beat saber computer.
This is why there hasn't been a refresh on the Valve Index: not enough interest, not enough games. Half Life Alyx is still one of the few major games with any depth to them in the market, and you can't access it easily outside of the Steam ecosystem. In other words, it's unavailable for a lot of VR headsets. They aren't going to dump more resources into more VR games if people aren't buying the headsets or the games.
Steam Deck on the other hand? Huuuuuuge market, people want that shit.
I hate to say this, but I played through Half-Life: Alyx and my response was to the effect of “…That’s it?”
It performed badly, gameplay was largely based around very uncreative shooting (take out gun, shoot combine 10 times around corner, eject magazine, reach back, put magazine into gun, pull slide, shoot around corner 4 more times, repeat) and there were only 3 guns. Even the gravity gloves weren’t used in combat.
I was even more wowed by the few VR combat games that made some innovations or had features in the level to outsmart enemies.
Stand alone headsets can play PCVR games too, especially steam games, that is the most accessible market for PCVR on standalone. Most do it wirelessly, which likely isn't as bad as you are thinking, but some also still do it with wired and some even with uncompressed video over wire. But honestly, as the resolution and bitrate keep going up, the difference between raw and compressed gets harder and harder to spot. At this point, you can only really tell in side by side comparisons of still frames which feed is compressed.
The main remaining problem of compressed streams is the total latency added, most importantly the decompressing time, since it's done on the headsets mobile hardware. And the networking time. Though a dedicated network device, either a router or a bespoke VR streaming tool can get that down to 5ms or less now. My streams total latency to my wireless headset is about 30ms now. I wouldn't be able to professionally compete in a frame counting fighter game... but that is about the only type of game where that level of latency is too much. Heck, people of my generation grew up through a point in time where TV screen latency was over 100ms... And while I will admit that there is still a benefit to sub 14ms latency, it's not as big of a difference as it used to be. And that is only when I stream PCVR stuff, it's still under that for stand alone content. Which also is not as bad as you likely think it is.
I have a total of about 250 VR games currently, and I only buy about 10% of the ones I want to buy. But I have also been in VR for 10 years now. About 150 of my games are standalone and about 100 PCVR. With about 30 of them being titles that gave both versions for the price of one. There is no shortage of games, I could not possibly play even all of just the good ones.
A VR headset is basically a console now, except one you can stream your PC to if you want. Even just for flat games too, I have a Virtual 4k 120hz monitor in my VR headset because in real life my 4k screen is an older TV that can only do 60 hz pc input or a very janky 120hz for 1080p. The nice thing about streaming to a VR headset instead of some hand held device, other than 4k 120fps, is that I don't have to look at my hands or hold my hands up to my eyes to play. My neck feels so much better than it did when Phone, Switch, and Steamdeck were the best way to game away from a computer.
My headset is comfortable, I can, and unfortunately often do, wear it for 16 hours a day. I have a single third party mod for it that was less than 100 dollars to convert it from a 2 hour headset, to an infinity headset. There are multiple options, but I went with BoBoVR, dumb name, but quality product.
But my headset has basically replaced my computer monitor, I haven't used my computer in person in like 2 years now. When I want to play a game on my computer, I just stay in my recliner, put my headset on and open Virtual Desktop, the same software I use to stream PCVR when I'm in the mood to be in the game instead.
There is basically no downside anymore, they aren't even expensive. While a Quest 3 is notably better, the lower end 3s is a totally viable headset at 300USD, notably cheaper than most consoles. Just do yourself a favor, if a Quest 3 seems too expensive, do not try it on. Stay with 3s and don't see how much greener the grass is for a little bit more, it's very easy to talk your way up to a real Quest 3.
Also, Steam deck has sold about 5 million units extrapolating from last known good data, Quest 2 sold over 20 million, Quest 3 is seemingly up to 10-15 million so far judging from old sales data for pacing and some recently reported hardware ratios from game devs, and still has about 4-5 more years left of active sales.
So if the Steam deck is a "huge market", then I don't know what you would call the stand alone VR market now. Considering that is just one brand of standalone headset. It's the market leader, sure, but there are other brands that do at least as well as the steam deck. Distant second as that may make them, seems like it's still relevant to include given the context.
True, but there are 2 sides to this: the majority won’t buy VR, unless there are enough games to play.
Studios should be actually investing and taking a risk, maybe it works out and becomes a big market, maybe not. If they keep going the current path, VR will forever remain an expensive niche gimmick. Which they seem to okay with.
There are probably better returns on making games for the existing markets, vs gambling money making games hoping to grow a new market. If VR ever truly takes off, they can always jump in later. (Which is a shame because I would love it if there were a ton of great VR games)
That's not why. There's a very high chance Valve is actively working on new standalone VR since some years, there are regular leaks confirming some progress.
It will always be 1993 for vr.
It will always be the future.
It will always suck.
I got a quest 2 a few years back, and it blew my mind. We ended up getting my wife her own so we could play together. Now, my daughter plays a lot of gorilla tag, but other than that, they collect dust.
For me, the biggest thing that prevents me from using it more, is the isolation. You need to find an empty space and remove yourself completely from the world.
On my phone or Xbox, I still know what's going on around me, and I can hop in, play for a bit, and still know what's going on in my house. I can walk away for a moment and get back to what I was doing. In VR, it feels like more of an investment. If I'm not sure that I have plenty of time to disengage from reality, I'm not going to bother putting on the headset.
Also, I'm a sweater, and a soggy, foggy headset is just eww.
Bingo. I spent a few hours playing some zombie killer game/demo with the HTC Vive back in like 2017, and while it was actually a lot of fun, it was super disorienting and I definitely knocked some stuff off my shelves by trying to stand in the middle of the room by myself. Someone also walked in without me hearing, and they got a hearty elbow to the face when I swung around to shoot a zombie behind me.
And ugh the sweat is real. After a few minutes the headset fogged up and started slipping off my face, and since that particular headset had porous foam all over it, the sweat soaked in and became gross immediately. That was the last time I used VR.
This definitely, vr is a lot of fun, especially with friends (in the game or sharing a headset while we all sit in the same room). But it isn't worth setting it all up (especially if it is pcvr) when I could just play one of the 100s of pancake games I have collected over the years.
There's just too many edge cases in VR for it to be a real platform. Movement is hard, there needs to be a lot of space around a person, form factors aren't great for the hardware, there's more graphical requirements, etc.
It'd legitimately be easier to fit an arcade cabinet in my house than space for proper VR play.
I've long been skeptical about VR as a mainstream platform. I think the technology is quite cool, but much like those people who used to say "In ten years everyone will have a 3D printer!" and the like, no, I just don't see it happening. The hassle factor is too great for it to be for everyone. Hell, most people seem to be fine with stereo sound, even though surround sound setups have been available for decades.
Whether it's space, cost, or lack of software support, it all seems to combine to make it a bit of hobbyist kit at best. If your goal is to sell millions of copies then you need to target a broader market than hobbyists, and it looks like a lot of companies have ploughed enough cash into this that hobbyist sales aren't going to be enough.
I bought a second generation of Rift (no idea what model it was, but it was the second retail one, not including the CV1 or whatever dev build it was) - and it was fantastic. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
The moment they forced the use of a Facebook account, it stopped getting used. The visor, controllers, and sensors have been sat in a cupboard for a year or two.
I really should see if it has been jailbroken, or if there's a way to utilise the Rift features without any Meta bollocks.
Let’s be honest, any manufacturers/developers willing to embrace porn will successful. Everyone else is just picking gnat shit out of pepper, hoping it’ll turn to gold.
just picking gnat shit out of pepper
Thank you for this wonderful phrase that I will be using from now on.
Hardware and content is still the big issue. The good porn games still suck in VR, and there's not a lot of them. The equipment is just too inconvenient.
Your hands are occupied, your positions are restricted, your tethered to the PC, and I don't want to get a thousand dollars of delicate hardware nutted on. It's just not there yet.
I sometimes use VR. I have a Quest 2. I just don't really care for any of it outside of linking it up to my PC and playing custom tracks on Beat Saber or getting my wheel out for racing games.
One of the scariest experiences was getting Wreckfest (not sure if it supports VR now but it didn't when I used it), stretching the 2D screen around me, jacking up the POV and having a heart attack when getting side swiped by a bus. That's probably the most fun I've had with a VR Headset 😂
I've also played Civ V on VR just for shits and giggles because why not.
It's an expensive gimmick.
Like 3D TVs.
I feel like you haven’t tried it. 3D TVs were fine and kinda cool. VR is still mind-blowing every time I play it.
Unlike 3d tvs it actually has something to offer. I wouldn't call it a gimmick, but it definitely has a price barrier that is hard to swallow.
Thought this too until I was gifted a headset, and found out I was dead wrong.
Btw they genuinely aren't even that expensive anymore. Cheaper than a console, a phone is 3x the cost, and a gaming laptop 6x the cost.
I love the shit out of mine. Got the VrCover face pieces which keep sweat from being a problem. I mainly play heavily modded Skyrim VR and a few different exercise games. My son plays a ton of different games with his friends. I don't think they are for everyone, but not a gimmick IMO.
Medical training in VR isn't a gimmick. Your view of the uses is just too narrow.
its a standalone device that functionally is like buying a phone with a Snapdragon 865(for older quest 2 models). relative to what you're paying for. It's actually not that expensive in the grand scheme of other gaming devices, as its on par/cheaper than basiaclly all other mainstream gaming devices, and on the low end in terms of smartphone pricing.
There is potential here, maybe, in the future. But nothing really happening now. Outside of Beat Sabre and a couple of other fun kinda cool but then boring ones, my VR experience got stale quickly.
Does it just need more games maybe? How are flat games that have a VR mode, are those good?
Skyrim is mind blowing.
The actual gameplay feels very different, and locomotion on that scale was more uncomfortable for me than other games (on an original vive). It might be that the performance isn't stable, as their engine has always had some level of that.
But holy shit, even the whole introductory sequence hits different, and just getting to whiterun feels like an epic adventure. Because of physical space requirements I never got super deep into it, but I could easily see getting lost in it if I'd had more time and got past the slight discomfort other VR games didn't give me.
Got an og Vive (699.99 cdn at the time came with headset, controllers, and base stations), playing the hell out of that headset just over a year in steam VR playtime at 2 - 4 hrs a day. I have played Half-Life:VR mod (due to the age of the actual game it is my worst port experience) Half-Life 2: VR mod, Half-Life 2 ep 1 and 2 in VR (absolutely amazing) Raft:VR mod (a few bugs and a few abilities missing from flat, but overall flawless) The Forest:VR mod(excellent), and let's not forget Valheim:VR mod.
Quest garden can be limiting but you can plug your quest (air link, ?whatever? desktop, link cable) and pretty much play anything on steam, personally have 90+ titles under my VR library (no beat saber). You can check yt for people playing these flat2vr games
It'd be nice for there to be 'halo software' to raise market share, otherwise I think it's circling the drain, suffering from the same feedback loop as SLI. It's niche, so developers aren't exactly clamoring to port things or make new offerings for it, which leaves consumers with less incentive to buy the hardware, which leaves developers with even less reason to touch it. Would Nintendo be in the console business if not for Zelda, Mario, and Tetris? Hard to tell
My brother bought the cv1 Oculus Rift pretty fast after it came out, we've both used it for most of the big releases and I've been wanting to buy my own since, but there's been a bit of hesitation considering my brother early uses his own. I also had reservations against buying a Facebook device after they took over, and I was seeing new releases and resolutions going up a bit.
Then information about the Big Screen Beyond came out, and I really wanted to get it. I checked out the page to buy it several times, kinda wanted to save the money too, though, but I think I was close enough that if I'd known anyone with the facescan iPhone I'd have done the scan and paid the ~$1,500 or so for the full setup.
Knowing myself and my brother, I would have played multiplayer occasionally and bought a few favorite games like Until You Fall, Bonelab, B&S, and Alyx but mostly it would end up sitting unused. I kinda also wanted to develop for VR but I probably wouldn't have done anything more than the two shitty assets I once imported poorly into Blade and Sorcery.
Right now I'm glad I have the $1,500 now because there are car issues to take care of. Ultimately I think VR is beautiful, but my world is still a little too rough around the edges to pay huge sums for a daydreaming toy.