Developers speaking to the Game Developers Collective seem to think the VR games market has hit a roadblock, even with this year's launch of the Apple Vision Pro.
I got a quest 2 a few years back, and it blew my mind. We ended up getting my wife her own so we could play together. Now, my daughter plays a lot of gorilla tag, but other than that, they collect dust.
For me, the biggest thing that prevents me from using it more, is the isolation. You need to find an empty space and remove yourself completely from the world.
On my phone or Xbox, I still know what's going on around me, and I can hop in, play for a bit, and still know what's going on in my house. I can walk away for a moment and get back to what I was doing. In VR, it feels like more of an investment. If I'm not sure that I have plenty of time to disengage from reality, I'm not going to bother putting on the headset.
Also, I'm a sweater, and a soggy, foggy headset is just eww.
Bingo. I spent a few hours playing some zombie killer game/demo with the HTC Vive back in like 2017, and while it was actually a lot of fun, it was super disorienting and I definitely knocked some stuff off my shelves by trying to stand in the middle of the room by myself. Someone also walked in without me hearing, and they got a hearty elbow to the face when I swung around to shoot a zombie behind me.
And ugh the sweat is real. After a few minutes the headset fogged up and started slipping off my face, and since that particular headset had porous foam all over it, the sweat soaked in and became gross immediately. That was the last time I used VR.
This definitely, vr is a lot of fun, especially with friends (in the game or sharing a headset while we all sit in the same room). But it isn't worth setting it all up (especially if it is pcvr) when I could just play one of the 100s of pancake games I have collected over the years.
This is why there hasn't been a refresh on the Valve Index: not enough interest, not enough games. Half Life Alyx is still one of the few major games with any depth to them in the market, and you can't access it easily outside of the Steam ecosystem. In other words, it's unavailable for a lot of VR headsets. They aren't going to dump more resources into more VR games if people aren't buying the headsets or the games.
Steam Deck on the other hand? Huuuuuuge market, people want that shit.
True, but there are 2 sides to this: the majority won’t buy VR, unless there are enough games to play.
Studios should be actually investing and taking a risk, maybe it works out and becomes a big market, maybe not. If they keep going the current path, VR will forever remain an expensive niche gimmick. Which they seem to okay with.
There are probably better returns on making games for the existing markets, vs gambling money making games hoping to grow a new market. If VR ever truly takes off, they can always jump in later. (Which is a shame because I would love it if there were a ton of great VR games)
That's not why. There's a very high chance Valve is actively working on new standalone VR since some years, there are regular leaks confirming some progress.
Stand alone headsets can play PCVR games too, especially steam games, that is the most accessible market for PCVR on standalone. Most do it wirelessly, which likely isn't as bad as you are thinking, but some also still do it with wired and some even with uncompressed video over wire. But honestly, as the resolution and bitrate keep going up, the difference between raw and compressed gets harder and harder to spot. At this point, you can only really tell in side by side comparisons of still frames which feed is compressed.
The main remaining problem of compressed streams is the total latency added, most importantly the decompressing time, since it's done on the headsets mobile hardware. And the networking time. Though a dedicated network device, either a router or a bespoke VR streaming tool can get that down to 5ms or less now. My streams total latency to my wireless headset is about 30ms now. I wouldn't be able to professionally compete in a frame counting fighter game... but that is about the only type of game where that level of latency is too much. Heck, people of my generation grew up through a point in time where TV screen latency was over 100ms... And while I will admit that there is still a benefit to sub 14ms latency, it's not as big of a difference as it used to be. And that is only when I stream PCVR stuff, it's still under that for stand alone content. Which also is not as bad as you likely think it is.
I have a total of about 250 VR games currently, and I only buy about 10% of the ones I want to buy. But I have also been in VR for 10 years now. About 150 of my games are standalone and about 100 PCVR. With about 30 of them being titles that gave both versions for the price of one. There is no shortage of games, I could not possibly play even all of just the good ones.
A VR headset is basically a console now, except one you can stream your PC to if you want. Even just for flat games too, I have a Virtual 4k 120hz monitor in my VR headset because in real life my 4k screen is an older TV that can only do 60 hz pc input or a very janky 120hz for 1080p. The nice thing about streaming to a VR headset instead of some hand held device, other than 4k 120fps, is that I don't have to look at my hands or hold my hands up to my eyes to play. My neck feels so much better than it did when Phone, Switch, and Steamdeck were the best way to game away from a computer.
My headset is comfortable, I can, and unfortunately often do, wear it for 16 hours a day. I have a single third party mod for it that was less than 100 dollars to convert it from a 2 hour headset, to an infinity headset. There are multiple options, but I went with BoBoVR, dumb name, but quality product.
But my headset has basically replaced my computer monitor, I haven't used my computer in person in like 2 years now. When I want to play a game on my computer, I just stay in my recliner, put my headset on and open Virtual Desktop, the same software I use to stream PCVR when I'm in the mood to be in the game instead.
There is basically no downside anymore, they aren't even expensive. While a Quest 3 is notably better, the lower end 3s is a totally viable headset at 300USD, notably cheaper than most consoles. Just do yourself a favor, if a Quest 3 seems too expensive, do not try it on. Stay with 3s and don't see how much greener the grass is for a little bit more, it's very easy to talk your way up to a real Quest 3.
Also, Steam deck has sold about 5 million units extrapolating from last known good data, Quest 2 sold over 20 million, Quest 3 is seemingly up to 10-15 million so far judging from old sales data for pacing and some recently reported hardware ratios from game devs, and still has about 4-5 more years left of active sales.
So if the Steam deck is a "huge market", then I don't know what you would call the stand alone VR market now. Considering that is just one brand of standalone headset. It's the market leader, sure, but there are other brands that do at least as well as the steam deck. Distant second as that may make them, seems like it's still relevant to include given the context.
You have an extremely warped view of the popularity of VR, possibly because you like it so much yourself that you literally can't imagine how other people feel about it. Wearing a VR headset 16 hours a day? Most people wouldn't do that if it literally gave them orgasms.
I hate to say this, but I played through Half-Life: Alyx and my response was to the effect of “…That’s it?”
It performed badly, gameplay was largely based around very uncreative shooting (take out gun, shoot combine 10 times around corner, eject magazine, reach back, put magazine into gun, pull slide, shoot around corner 4 more times, repeat) and there were only 3 guns. Even the gravity gloves weren’t used in combat.
I was even more wowed by the few VR combat games that made some innovations or had features in the level to outsmart enemies.
I imagine the insane price to entry is a big thing.
I had some disposable cash so I went with the index, I love it don't get me wrong but, 1k is super fucking steep for an enjoyable system, and that's ontop of the requirement they do it right when they make a game, many of them take vr as a minority and you can tell when a game puts it on the side burner
I have an Index also, one thing I find frustrating is that because the Quest has such a dominant marketshare and packages games differently, some smaller VR games and experiences I see seem to be only available as an apk file for Quest sideloading and there is no straightforward way for me to play them.
The main reason I don't use it more though is I never got past the physical discomfort, I still feel nausea playing most games for more than a few minutes, and headaches from the pressure on my scalp/face if going longer than that, ie. trying to watch a movie with the headset. So that basically means I'm not going to just spend a lot of time passively chilling out in VR, it has to be some specific thing I want to do that feels worth it to push through the discomfort involved and can be gotten through relatively quickly. Mostly that ends up being just Beat Saber.
Also a lot of people are lazy. VR requires you to move more than playing flat games. Also it requires a decent PC which is an added cost. As you said - when it works (Payday 2, Alyx) there is nothing better. When it doesn't, you can end up with physical symptoms.
I've enjoyed my VR but rarely. When I game, I'm usually doing it to relax. Getting everything up and running, clearing space, etc so I can wear a device that makes my face sweat while I thrash about isn't relaxing.
VR is the gaming equivalent of going to a fancy restaurant with a formal dress code. It's nice once in a while, but most of the time I'd rather just make a sandwich and stay in.
Yup, $1k for a decent headset, $1k for a decent GPU, and you also need space to play. It's a pretty big barrier to entry before you even get into the limited selection of games.
Even though Facebook is a terrible inhumane corporation, they have the best product because it is lightweight, can be used without any base station and can be used without a pc-link.
The fact that a VR set requires at minimum a 5x5 feets space with a computer within the vicinity is definitely hurting the VR market.
So I just hope that we get something akin to the Quest but without the evil corporation bit.
When I played Elite Dangerous with a VR headset, man was it magical. But I won't dedicate a small room and a PC just for that experience.
That's how I feel about it. I don't know if I would buy one but independence from Facebook is a prerequisite. Can these even be used without logging in?
It needs to either become a generic commodity like a TV, or it will die.
We can't have this fragmented system. Imagine if you needed a Sony TV for PS, one for Xbox, one for PC, a standalone one that could run it's own exclusive content...
It's good tech, and the immersion is unparalleled, but greedy company are going to burn it to the ground it so they can rule the ashes.
It's fucking madness that you can't even use it to watch 3D movies on Netflix etc. There needs to be a generic box that accepts USB or HDMI input from all devices so you can at least use it for things other than gaming, even if it just puts it all in a big virtual screen.
Yep. The Corporate demand for siloed ecosystems is self-defeating. There are other examples of the same paradigm with VHS v Beta, DVD Audio vs SACD, Dvd vs LaserDisc etc.
Frankly, I don't really care if the tech dies- the companies that "support" it are too flimsy to be counted on as going-concerns, they're just fighting their own downward spirals.
I blame Meta. My Oculus Rift CV1 was working great until some random software update and now for some reason it won't read my sensors as being connected via USB3.0 cable despite them being so, instantly rendering my expensive VR device a giant paper weight.
I'm still salty about Oculus starting out crowdfunded then selling to Facebook. What a fucking betrayal.
I loved my original oculus. I thought it was very well built. I loved it right up until having a Facebook account became mandatory... now I love my value index.
It's only that way because developers don't seem to be, you know... Developing shit for it.
Like, I love a lot of what's available and the tech itself is great; but there is no killer app. There is next to nothing but novelty bullshit being made. Even if Meta wasn't the one with the cheapest headset, people wouldn't necessarily be buying into VR because there's not really much to do with it yet.
One Half-Life game, a chatroom, and a bitching rythym game isn't enough.
What, like a wheel and some pedals? Or would you go full-on actual car stuff? I met a guy once who turned the entire back half of his trailer into a plane cockpit for his flight sims. Had actual instruments and switches and stuff. I'm sure with what it had to cost, he could have just bought a real plane. lol
I think that the biggest problem is the lack of investment and willingness to take on risk. Every company just seems to want a quick cash grab "killer app" but doesn't want to sink in the years of development of practical things that aren't as flashy but solve real-world problems. Because that's hard and isn't likely to make the line go up every quarter.
It's mostly the price. If you have 500 or even 1000 to invest to play games, first that puts you squarely in the top 1% worldwide but more importantly a VR headset is the worst choice in terms of breadth of games you can play. So the first choice will always be a PC or a console which leave the VR headset for the people who actually have 2k+ to spend for gaming and actually want one. A tiny tiny minority.
If you add on top of it that you still have a 50/50 chance of getting nausea each time you play and that it's a pain in the ass (or an additional expense) if you wear glasses, and the space requirement. It's not a surprise if the market is stalled.
As for useful implementation, my cousin is an orthopedic surgeon and they use VR headset and 3D x-ray scanner, 3d printers and a whole bunch of sci-fi stuff to prep for operation, but they are not using a meta quest2, we're talking 50k headset and million dollar equipment. None of that does anything to the gaming market.
My though is that the tech need to get a couple of order of magnitude better and be usable as a day to day computer for work. When I can code in one 10 hours a day without fucking up my eyes, vomiting myself, sweating like a pig and getting neck strain it will have the possibility to take over the computer market, until then, it's a gimmick.
Even your hypothetical perfect headset would be useless in so many situations where you can game today, can't use it in public, can't use it while watching children, can't use it while talking to other adults in your household,...
Also, I think the idea that you even need that first person perspective for immersion is deeply flawed, lots of games make you feel immersed without that. Not to mention that it severely limits possible UI elements if you don't want to break the immersion again.
As for useful implementation, my cousin is an orthopedic surgeon and they use VR headset and 3D x-ray scanner, 3d printers and a whole bunch of sci-fi stuff to prep for operation, but they are not using a meta quest2, we're talking 50k headset and million dollar equipment. None of that does anything to the gaming market.
That's really awesome and I love seeing that the tech is actually seeing good uses.
Yeah. A lot of what you're saying parallels my thoughts. The PC and console gaming market didn't exist until there were more practical, non-specialty uses for computing and, importantly, affordability. To me, it seems that the manufacturers are trying to skip that and just try to get to the lucrative software part, while also skipping the part where you pay people fair wages to develop (the games industry is super exploitative of devs) or, like The Company Formerly-known as Facebook, use VR devices as another tool to harvest personal information for profit (head tracking data can be used to identify people, similar to gait analysis), rather than having interest in actually developing VR long-term.
Much as I'm not a fan of Apple or the departed sociopath that headed it, a similar company to its early years is probably what's needed; people willing to actually take on some risk for the long-haul to develop the hardware and base software to make a practical "personal computer" of VR.
When I can code in one 10 hours a day without fucking up my eyes, vomiting myself, sweating like a pig and getting neck strain it will have the possibility to take over the computer market, until then, it's a gimmick.
Absolutely agreed. Though, I'd note that there is tech available for this use case. I've been using Xreal Airs for several years now as a full monitor replacement (Viture is more FOSS friendly at this time). Bird bath optics are superior for productivity uses, compared to waveguides and lensed optics used in VR. In order to have readable text that doesn't strain the eyes, higher pixels-per-degree are needed, not higher FOV.
The isolation of VR is also a negative in many cases as interacting and being aware of the real world is frequently necessary in productivity uses (both for interacting with people and mitigating eye strain). Apple was ALMOST there with their Vision Pro but tried to be clever, rather than practical. They should not have bothered with the camera and just let the real world in, unfiltered.
I bought a second generation of Rift (no idea what model it was, but it was the second retail one, not including the CV1 or whatever dev build it was) - and it was fantastic. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
The moment they forced the use of a Facebook account, it stopped getting used. The visor, controllers, and sensors have been sat in a cupboard for a year or two.
I really should see if it has been jailbroken, or if there's a way to utilise the Rift features without any Meta bollocks.
Sony gave up on the VR2 before it was even released. No promotion, hard to even find the games in the store, no free VR games in PS+, barely any investment in developers and exclusives. I don't understand why anyone would expect a better outcome.
I've long been skeptical about VR as a mainstream platform. I think the technology is quite cool, but much like those people who used to say "In ten years everyone will have a 3D printer!" and the like, no, I just don't see it happening. The hassle factor is too great for it to be for everyone. Hell, most people seem to be fine with stereo sound, even though surround sound setups have been available for decades.
Whether it's space, cost, or lack of software support, it all seems to combine to make it a bit of hobbyist kit at best. If your goal is to sell millions of copies then you need to target a broader market than hobbyists, and it looks like a lot of companies have ploughed enough cash into this that hobbyist sales aren't going to be enough.
There's just too many edge cases in VR for it to be a real platform. Movement is hard, there needs to be a lot of space around a person, form factors aren't great for the hardware, there's more graphical requirements, etc.
Let’s be honest, any manufacturers/developers willing to embrace porn will successful. Everyone else is just picking gnat shit out of pepper, hoping it’ll turn to gold.
Hardware and content is still the big issue. The good porn games still suck in VR, and there's not a lot of them. The equipment is just too inconvenient.
Your hands are occupied, your positions are restricted, your tethered to the PC, and I don't want to get a thousand dollars of delicate hardware nutted on. It's just not there yet.
I imagine when you treat VIRTUAL REALITY BEING REAL NOW as a fad, develop like two or three games for it, then never do anything with it again.. yeah I imagine the market would decline...
I personally don't feel like spending 700 or how many euros to play beat saber on my ps5.
Other games that might be awesome in this is ones were you don't need to move around but benefit from being able to look around, so flight sims, driving sims, but there the chair setups are better imo.
Can't really think of much else, that's why VR is on the decline, really limited number of fun games to be had, or it would require some paradigm shift, like a strategy game but you are playing on the inside of a globe, but then that game would have to survive on being a VR exclusive.
A VR mech game could be so baller. Also a remake of Black and White would work well. But generally yeah it's just not a great medium for most games and while we have a lot of promising hardware we're struggling to find ways to use it intuitively
I think after the bubble breaks it does down a bit well see some groups take their time to build really functional stuff. We don't have good standards on how to interact in VR and it shows. We don't have enough data on how to make people less motion sick. Basically the hardware is there but the software isn't and that'll take more time than we've been giving it, imo
Realistically though I think the fundamental limits on how you can interact in VR means while there may be a strong niche market, I don't expect it to be a mainstream thing. Even if the prices drop a lot and the headsets get smaller there's still a lot working against them
More games and a Matrix-esque visual file manager where you could walk through various libraries of documents, files, videos or pictures in 3D space, or proportional size like WinDirStat would be cool.
The lack of good games has really made VR hard to enjoy. I have five good evergreen titles and not much else.
Because we would all love it if a large folder meant we had to run for a few hundred meters to get to the next one instead of just hitting a single key on a keyboard or moving the mouse by a few pixels...
I mean the hype has died down but I think it's rather that VR is too expensive right now. I want VR but I don't want it $500 much to get a novelty item.
I think using it as a big ass screen would be nice and I really want to Serious Sam and Subnautica on VR. The immersion is really good for VR and I've liked it a lot every time I've played it.
Still, you need a decent space in the living room. A good graphics card for the frame rate and the expensive headset and motion trackers to get the full experience. That's a lot to ask for with the current economy.
You probably couldn't pay me to use VR. The whole way of shutting yourself away from the world just to be stuck with a shitty UI that resembles RL interactions instead of the multitude of UI options abstraction can give you feels entirely unappealing.
You should try it when you get the chance, it's absolutely bonkers. I had my reservations about it before I tried it and it was much better than I expected.
Flight in VR is truly something else. Not even a simpit can provide that level of immersion. You think jumping into a white dwarf system is spooky in Elite Dangerous? Try doing it with a headset on. When your cockpit is smoking, alarms are blaring, and the panic sets in, you will finally understand.
As other have said, it's extremely expensive to pc/vr and for those that can afford it, there isn't enough content.
For video browsing I find that I have a better monitor than the quest 3. (led vs qoled) so why would I bother? Plus I have a fiancé around me when I'm at home so it makes no sense to close myself off.
I enjoy the product and maybe if it had better integration for multiple people, I might use it more often.
The fix for the sweating is to use a bobovr s3 pro strap and to remove the headface. It also comes with a fan so it's honestly very comfortable. But that's another £100.
I wish it could take off more, but I know it's still just a gimmick.
I use it for sim racing sometimes and it's amazing to feel like I'm in an F1 car or something. Until I get nauseous after 15 minutes or something. It's also a bit of a hassle to set up. That being said, maybe it would be cooler if I got into beat saber or something.
Was it over hyped? Maybe. But it's still a cool technology and I'd be sad to see it fall into nothingness. I don't see a future where everyone is wearing VR glasses, but it's still a very neat thing to enjoy every now and then.
VR always seemed like a gimmick to me. I ended up with a wii instead of a PS3 or 360 as a teenager and it made me bitter and resolved to avoid anything like motion controls or gimmicks in future purchases.
Not that the wii was a bad console but I ended up playing the virtual console and gamecube backwards compatibility more than anything else.
I love the shit out of mine. Got the VrCover face pieces which keep sweat from being a problem. I mainly play heavily modded Skyrim VR and a few different exercise games. My son plays a ton of different games with his friends. I don't think they are for everyone, but not a gimmick IMO.
Still seems fairly narrow, the field where you train for literal RL tasks but can't train on actual RL objects because those are living beings is fairly narrow in itself. Not to mention that there is a fairly limited number of them where you actually have to use your hands on the patient directly considering the prevalence of keyhole type surgeries in recent years where the actual patient contact is not the surgeon's hands anymore.
its a standalone device that functionally is like buying a phone with a Snapdragon 865(for older quest 2 models). relative to what you're paying for. It's actually not that expensive in the grand scheme of other gaming devices, as its on par/cheaper than basiaclly all other mainstream gaming devices, and on the low end in terms of smartphone pricing.
I sometimes use VR. I have a Quest 2. I just don't really care for any of it outside of linking it up to my PC and playing custom tracks on Beat Saber or getting my wheel out for racing games.
One of the scariest experiences was getting Wreckfest (not sure if it supports VR now but it didn't when I used it), stretching the 2D screen around me, jacking up the POV and having a heart attack when getting side swiped by a bus. That's probably the most fun I've had with a VR Headset 😂
I've also played Civ V on VR just for shits and giggles because why not.
There is potential here, maybe, in the future. But nothing really happening now. Outside of Beat Sabre and a couple of other fun kinda cool but then boring ones, my VR experience got stale quickly.
There are some cool ones coming out for Meta Quest exclusively, but I'll be damned if I'm going to buy one of those. Meta's going to exclusive the market to death.
Got an og Vive (699.99 cdn at the time came with headset, controllers, and base stations), playing the hell out of that headset just over a year in steam VR playtime at 2 - 4 hrs a day. I have played Half-Life:VR mod (due to the age of the actual game it is my worst port experience) Half-Life 2: VR mod, Half-Life 2 ep 1 and 2 in VR (absolutely amazing) Raft:VR mod (a few bugs and a few abilities missing from flat, but overall flawless) The Forest:VR mod(excellent), and let's not forget Valheim:VR mod.
Quest garden can be limiting but you can plug your quest (air link, ?whatever? desktop, link cable) and pretty much play anything on steam, personally have 90+ titles under my VR library (no beat saber). You can check yt for people playing these flat2vr games
The actual gameplay feels very different, and locomotion on that scale was more uncomfortable for me than other games (on an original vive). It might be that the performance isn't stable, as their engine has always had some level of that.
But holy shit, even the whole introductory sequence hits different, and just getting to whiterun feels like an epic adventure. Because of physical space requirements I never got super deep into it, but I could easily see getting lost in it if I'd had more time and got past the slight discomfort other VR games didn't give me.
VR seems like one of those things that sounds amazing to the person who first has the idea and maybe even looks amazing in tech demo but once you think about it for a few minutes or have to actually use it for anything practical it just doesn't live up to that.
My brother bought the cv1 Oculus Rift pretty fast after it came out, we've both used it for most of the big releases and I've been wanting to buy my own since, but there's been a bit of hesitation considering my brother early uses his own. I also had reservations against buying a Facebook device after they took over, and I was seeing new releases and resolutions going up a bit.
Then information about the Big Screen Beyond came out, and I really wanted to get it. I checked out the page to buy it several times, kinda wanted to save the money too, though, but I think I was close enough that if I'd known anyone with the facescan iPhone I'd have done the scan and paid the ~$1,500 or so for the full setup.
Knowing myself and my brother, I would have played multiplayer occasionally and bought a few favorite games like Until You Fall, Bonelab, B&S, and Alyx but mostly it would end up sitting unused. I kinda also wanted to develop for VR but I probably wouldn't have done anything more than the two shitty assets I once imported poorly into Blade and Sorcery.
Right now I'm glad I have the $1,500 now because there are car issues to take care of. Ultimately I think VR is beautiful, but my world is still a little too rough around the edges to pay huge sums for a daydreaming toy.