Microsoft’s controversial Windows Recall feature is coming back in October
Microsoft’s controversial Windows Recall feature is coming back in October
Microsoft plans to relaunch the AI feature Windows Recall in October;; this time to test builds first before the official launch.
If you thought that Microsoft was done with Recall after its catastrophic reveal as the main feature of Copilot+ PCs, you are mistaken.
Microsoft wants to bring it back this October 2024. Good news is that the company plans to introduce it in test builds of the Windows 11 operating system in October. In other words: do not expect the feature to hit stable Windows 11 PCs before 2025 at the earliest.
While Recall may have sounded great on paper and on work-related PCs, users and experts alike expressed concern. Users expressed fears that malware could steal Recall data to know exactly what they did in the past couple of months.
Others did not trust Microsoft to keep the data secure. We suggested to make Recall opt-in, instead of opt-out, to make sure that users knew what they were getting into when enabling it.
Microsoft pulled the Recall feature shortly after its announcement and published information about its future in June. There, Microsoft said that it would make Recall opt-in by default. It also wanted to improve security by enrolling in Windows Hello and other features.
Yet another reminder that alternatives, where your privacy is not for sale, and your hardware belongs to you, actually exist in 2024
it's for corporations to deploy on all their worker drones' workstations
I wish they would do a much better job of distinguishing corporate workstation versions of Windows and Home versions of Windows. Put all this MS ecosystem garbage on the workstation version, and make the Home version a stripped down to the essentials OS. Which is what most of us try to do with tools like ShutUp10, anyway.
Agreed - if I were evil, I would use this data to look for long periods of static/unchanging desktop screenshots to look for inactivity and employees lying about being there or away.
Honestly this is just an arms race. If the above happens (and if I can come up with that use case think about what will come up when someone actually smart thinks about it.)
The response? I’d make a tool that presses alt-tab every 15 seconds a random number of times - to both keep the computer alive and change the desktop view, maybe move the windows around a bit for variety. A usb rubber ducky would be perfect for this.
What do you recommend? What is the most Apple-like+MacBook like?
Any decent laptop for hardware. ElementaryOS for the OS, if you really want the look/feel of macos.
Zorin is a Ubuntu-derived distro that has multiple desktop managers built in, including one that mimics macOS.
A lot of the laptops made by Huawei and Xiaomi are MacBook-like in design at least. Framework is much more repairable though as are business laptops from HP or Dell. Dell in particular has made some quite long battery life laptops in the past like the Latitude 7410 and 7400, though those aren't particularly new they are at least cheap when bought second hand.
In terms of OS you got to go with some Linux flavor as they offer various DEs some of which are mac like. Obviously macOS and Linux terminals are somewhat similar anyway. PopOS is a great option.
Not until Linux comes pre-deployed on gaming laptops for sale. That's my market.
Before you ask, I don't have the know-how to boot into Linux, and I need the portability of a laptop. As well as enjoying gaming to an extent. Pretty niche.
Who thought they were abandoning it?
I doubt they secured it particularly well either, because the nature of proper security is building it from the ground up with security as a core principle, but it was always coming back.
They delayed because "oh shit, people noticed we didn't even bother with security theater" and to let the backlash die down. They still consider it a major selling point.
By the comments I've seen, it seems like no one read their previous announcement where they said they were delaying the feature while they continued work on it. We already knew they were still going to ship it.
Just having it disabled by default is a massive improvement. It's crazy that they initially considered releasing it with no encryption and it on by default.
It's less bad for sure. And I can understand, theoretically, the value of "that one think I saw that one time". I've definitely spent way longer than I'd want looking for some random reference I'd seen in the past, and I'm in the process of trying to catalogue all the references in my past nonfiction reading after the fact, and it's definitely a lot of work.
But man, other users on your PC could trivially see everything you did on your system unless you used the dumpster fire that's edge in private browsing mode, and the people on the project thought that was OK. There's no way people with that level of lack of awareness managed to adapt the project to not be a sieve.
They did abandon it but it backed itself up
While Recall may have sounded great on paper and on work-related PCs,
Ah yes, all those IT people were probably thrilled with the prospect of Microsoft getting sent constant screenshots of their employees' machines, with all those company secrets, sensitive information, and everything
Boy howdy I'm just imagining HIPAA with this.
Also data retention and security it's a nightmare for Title IX and FERPA as well.
Another thing is Microsoft hasn't been talking about compression either, how large are these files? What does it do with networked drives? How do we know metadata collection isn't being expanded?
It never sounded great on paper to me...
Hear me out, I actually had a similar concept in mind, but only for files, emails, calendar entries, bookmarks, that kind of stuff. Things that I actually saved on my computer, not random screenshots of what I'm looking at. This is a huge difference IMO. What I look at should never be saved. Only when I specifically save something, should it persist. I would actually love a FOSS, local and private AI solution that would allow me to simply query anything I've ever saved on my computer with a simple search request, without having to waste time on naming my files. Even better if it would understand the context and stuff. This would especially be useful with photos, as they never have proper filenames, just some generic random stuff. Or with code, if the AI search could understand the context of my code and I could just pull it up using a search terms like "the function for handling DNS over TLS requests a few years ago" or whatever, and it would just pull out that one function from the project. Even better if this could be integrated with a separate, generative AI model, that could make small changes to my already existing stuff. I don't know, e.g. "refactor the function to use LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL TLS library".
The crazy part to me is a local solution (shadow copy) has been around for ever. Why this is even a thing at all is just insane to me.
They never said they were doing away with it. It's a feature literally no one asked for, it's insecure, it's invasive, a privacy nightmare any way you look at it.
And people who willingly use it will deserve all the shit that it is. And meanwhile, I'll be enjoying my privacy-respecting Linux operating system.
M$ is like a boyfriend - you tell him "No, don't touch me there!"
and an hour later his hands are wandering the same direction again..
An abusive boyfriend perhaps and you should definitely leave that relationship
"has enough time passed that we won't get bad press for this?"
Linux is just as bad though ---
.zsh_historyrecords every command you run!(/s, obviously...)
So imagine you're on PornHub and then out of nowhere, Clippy shows up and says "hmmm looks like you need some help pleasuring yourself", then starts flicking through similar nude pictures and videos to what you've been looking at before. The idle animation of the AI assistant even changes to Clippy morphing into the shape of a penis and shagging a rolled up piece of lined paper is if it were a fleshlight. You can't tell if Microsoft are mocking you for being a coomer, nor can you tell whether to find Clippy's sexual deviancy funny or creepy.
Somehow that hypothetical dystopia of Clippy watching you masturbate is only slightly worse than what Microsoft plan to do with Recall. If the mere thought of a machine learning AI taking screenshots of your desktop every few seconds and learning from your computer usage habits isn't absolutely fucking terrifying... Then imagine that these are likely being uploaded to a server for the perusal of advertisers, intelligence agencies and any hackers skilled enough to break into Microsoft's servers.
Even if it was stored locally, all it takes is one dodgy web link for you to inadvertently send all your Recall data to a hacker and have it ransomed.
They should just market to the blackmail fetish community at this point.
And this just about sums up all of Microsoft's creativity.
<Insert how you'll use Linux> <shit on Microsoft and how you are done> <rest of the population uses Windows because they don't know shit about tech and how shitty this is> <realize work loves Microsoft and you can't change that> <destroy all your tech> <become a Luddite hermit>
Work is the only reason I still have windows in my life, and thankfully, they will be trialing linux as an option for employees in the next month or two. I signed up so damn quick lol.
I got lucky that my last 3 jobs have all let me use Linux on a work laptop, but I guess it's not too surprising since I work as a web developer and production always runs on Linux lol
people not knowing shit about tech is not their fault. I've been using tech for 30+ years, and I'm usually the most tech savvy person in my circle of family and friends, except for a friend in IT.
the reason I'm not getting into Linux is no longer gaming, it's that whenever i see some fuckers talking about Linux it's completely indecipherable with proper names, commands, and jargon. it's straight up technobabble, and when it's not insufferable elitism it's certainly disinviting.
you think people are going to listen to a bunch of nerds talking about distros and shit, using 40 different acronyms within two sentences, and think "ah this is my new home" ... like do you fucking hear yourselves at all‽ you sound exactly like a character from the hackers, and not in a good way.
if anything is preventing people from switching it's Linux users, and probably developers as well. if you make it look like people have to have a degree to get into your shit, they're not gonna do it.
Even more annoying is how many people in the Linux community often recommend distros that are terrible for beginners. People who constantly try to tell newbies to download base debian or arch should be removed from the conversation instantly.
You're 100% right. Linux itself is perfectly capable for a lot of users (note I didn't say all users, or even most users, before people start coming at me with their weird edge case that requires Windows) but the community of both users and devs do absolutely nothing good to get people on board.
That's a lot more prevalent online than in-person.
If you ask a Linux user in-person about Linux, they'll likely oversimplify, but if you ask 2-3 Linux users at the same time, you'll quickly get into jargon. That's not a Linux problem, that's a problem with pretty much every niche interest, people really like to one-up each other in whatever that is. Just try it sometime. Ask someone about their favorite board game, what camera to buy, etc, and you'll get a simple answer. Then repeat, but with a group of people who all like that thing, and you'll get a much more complicated answer.
As with any hobby, there's always another level of depth you can go. The trick is to corner one nerd, and only one nerd.
That is one of the most annoying thing that i experienced (and still do) when i switched to linux some months ago. Sometimes I have a problem and I look online to solve it where I see that i have to do some terminal commands explaimed with terms I dont know and maybe edit a file in /etc, only to find out some days later that I could have done it very easily with the GUI in much less time and without that hassle. Most advanced users find the terminal easier, but for new users it is really hard without knowing the commands and can only copy-paste. Over time i started to learn some commands, but doing it so abruptly will just discourage everyone.
Switching to linux was a very good thing I did and I should have done it earlier, but I still keep a copy of windows, the biggest reason is to have a machine that just works if i really need to do some thing and if I have a problem with linux, that and for compatibility, to a smaller extent as I (luckly) do not use need to use THAT programs the just refuse to work in linux
people not knowing shit about tech is not their fault
I don't agree with much else of what you are saying, but you are quite right here. We should indeed not throw people under the bus because they're not tech savvy and only know how to use Windows. They need to be defended from all those horrible anti-human and privacy invading practices by Microsoft and other Big Tech companies as well, and we should keep fighting and pushing back on those companies pushing their anti-human features, regardless of whether an alternative exists.
BUT, ultimately Linux is the answer, and people are not wrong for pointing that out. It's the only viable alternative that is user respecting by design. It's the only way to free yourself from the abusive relationship between you and Microsoft, because much like an abusive partner, Microsoft will never change. So if you're tech savvy, and you would be able to switch to Linux but for some reason you don't, I have little sympathy for your Windows problems.
if anything is preventing people from switching it’s Linux users, and probably developers as well. if you make it look like people have to have a degree to get into your shit, they’re not gonna do it.
The thing is, I agree with you, and unfortunately it's actually a common misconception how difficult Linux is to use. You can easily install a beginner-friendly distro like Ubuntu/Mint/PopOS and get started that way, it doesn't have to be daunting. It's free to try out and you have nothing to lose by giving it a try, you could always go back to Windows.
https://youtu.be/CPRvc2UMeMI?feature=shared
Relevant part at 5:15 but it's all on point. There's a better version somewhere but this was the top hit...
So why don't you? Yes, install Linux, make that switch
MS: Here's a cool new feature!
Users: That is spyware bullshit, fuck off!
MS: But muh ecosystem!
Users: Nobody fucking wants any of that. Now STFU and run my games, grandpa.
MS: sniffs This isn't over, you little shits.Finished migrating to Linux right on time
Is there anything you'd recommend as a migration tutorial from someone who's used windows their whole life?
I have a really basic one. Some caveats - I've also used Windows my whole life (up until about 2 weeks ago), but I'm comfortable getting into a command prompt and/or powershell to tweak stuff. Also, I had a spare SSD lying around and extra space on my installed HDD.
Step 0 (arguably the hardest): pick your distro.
I went with Arch - but if you want something Arch-based but a little less barebones, you might do fine with Manjaro or EndeavourOS. This is totally up to you though (I'm in the process of migrating my wife to openSUSE). "But Gaspar, you crazy old man," you may ask, "what all is out there?" Well.. there's a lot. Over 600 active distros, if you believe this random-ass tech blog, and countless other hundreds (or thousands) that are old, outdated, no longer supported, or were cooked up by one dude specifically for their own system and will never be uploaded. There are a couple of tools that can help narrow this down, but you're really just going to have to poke around and see what appeals to you.Step 1: Test in a virtual machine first.
This is optional, but it may help you make up your mind: pick a few different distros and install them in virtual machines, using VirtualBox or something. You can poke around in there and see how things "feel" before you make up your mind, without worrying about messing something up.Step 2: Load up a USB stick.
Ventoy. You don't HAVE to use this, strictly speaking. You can just get Etcher or Rufus or something, use them to write your chosen distro's ISO to a USB stick, and install that way. But Ventoy sets up a separate partition on your USB stick where you can grab a bunch of different ISOs and drag-and-drop in there, and load up whichever one you want. Pretty handy.Step 3: Go into Disk Management and free up a partition for your chosen distro.
This is up to your taste (I just installed it into its own whole SSD) but I'd set aside at least 256GB for the OS and the packages you'll want to install once you get in there. Again, though, YMMV.Step 4: Install that sucker!
OK, now boot into your ISO through the USB stick you prepared earlier and install the sucker on your new partition. Most distros will have you set up a root password and give you the option to create a user. YOU WANT TO DO THIS. You do not want to always access your system as root - that way lies madness (and it's wildly insecure). You may also get a choice of desktop environments. This is up to your taste but I went with KDE Plasma because I have a Steam Deck (which also runs on a variant of Arch) and I was already used to the interface.Step 5: Migration start
After you've gotten set up and a little comfortable poking around (maybe you already figured out how you want to start setting up when you were testing VMs in Step 1 earlier), it's time to start partitioning. There are a few GUI partition managers you can use - I used KDE Partition Manager, but there's also Gparted and a few others.Once you're in whichever program you've chosen to set up your partitions, you'll want to proceed in this basic order:
- Shrink your Windows partition(s) if they are taking up the entire drive, and you have the space to do so (if not, we'll get to that)
- Create new Linux partitions in the filesystem of your choice (again, will explain this shortly)
- Mount both your Windows and Linux partitions and copy from one to the other
- Once you're happy that everything's copied over, delete the Windows partition(s) (unless you're planning on dual-booting, in which case keep the partition with your Windows install)
- Finally, extend your new Linux partition(s) to cover the whole drive
Step 6: Wait what?
Well, maybe your Windows drive is full, or there isn't enough space on the new partition to copy everything over. This is why I mentioned the spare SSD. You can plug that in, if you have one, and use it as a placeholder to copy your files to while you reformat your drive and then copy everything back.Also - filesystem of your choice? Well, Linux has a few options for partition types: ext4, btrfs, zfs, and a bunch of others. You'll have to check them out and see which makes the most sense for you. I personally just reformatted everything as btrfs. It may not have been the most efficient choice, but it's worked out for me so far. The main issue here is the standard Windows NTFS file system. Now - you CAN keep a lot of your data on an NTFS partition, especially if you want to dual boot Windows for a while and get used to things while still having that familiar lifeline (or, like me, if you have some games that still just don't play well with Linux yet). Here's the thing, though: thanks to a driver you can download, you can fairly easily get Windows to mount your btrfs partitions (I did it and even still have my drive letter associations). Plus, if you are a heavy Steam gamer, while you CAN get Steam on Linux to read your NTFS partitions.. it's a huge headache, and it isn't worth it IMO (and, in my experience, I couldn't get my NTFS partitions to STAY mounted as read/write). Better to just bite the bullet.
If you are planning on dual-booting, of course your Windows partition will still need to be NTFS. But if you have the disk storage to copy everything over, you can have everything else converted to whatever combination of Linux partitions you want in a few days (took me about 3, but I also had 10-ish TB to copy over and I had to do half of that twice).
Final Thoughts
Depending on whichever flavor of Linux you opted for, you may boot into GRUB, which is a bootloader that gives you some pretty neat configuration options - one of those options is the ability to boot into all your existing OS installs, including your Windows installation. Once you get a bit more familiar with Linux you may wish to make your Linux partition the default, secure in the knowledge that whenever you want, you can just hit down a couple of times, then Enter, and boom - you're in Windows. Just be careful, because Windows recently pushed an update that may have broken this currently. I think it's a nice touch, though.I have rambled on long enough at this point and I'm sure someone else can point out several hundred things I missed - again, I am still a Linux newbie. But the best way to learn this stuff is just to do it, and depending on your comfort level and familiarity with Windows it shouldn't take you long to get up to speed. Good luck!
I love the other guys response, but seriously I've heard enough recommendations and plan to try Mint after Windows. Sounds easiest for people that aren't Linux snobs.
@Gaspan made a good list. I would like to add a few more points.
- Make a list of some applications which you use regularly
- Either search if the applications work on Linux OR see if they have Linux alternative. You can just post the list here and ask the community
Also, get into a mindset of learning. I know you are used to Windows for decades now, but now you are switching to a new OS. It will be bumpy at first but you will get used to it; do not fear it! Imagine switching from a car to a bike. You have to invest a little time in learning. Once you get used to it, it's smooth riding all the way. Best of luck!!
Source: Windows user of 2 decades converted to Linux.
My tip is don't obsess too much about if you'll find replacement for this software or that software, the moment you'll need it you'll try and you will definitively find alternatives BUT it will take time to get used to it and it's the way it is.
The more you stay on the new system the easier it will be. I switched my desktop recently and I had the temptation of going back but I stuck to it and now I don't have the temptation, but I need windows for stupid whatsapp videocalls though (there are alternatives but the other person isn't tech savvy and I want to make things easier)
Most important part would be talking about it as often as possible, a la CrossFit or veganism.
I’m currently dual booting and still uses Windows for gaming since I tried gaming on Linux and I basically got around half the FPS that I usually got on Windows (I have Nvidia GPU). I think I’ll fully migrate when I upgrade to an AMD GPU sometime in the future.
I’m dual booting Debian and Windows, is there an easy way to fully remove the windows partition and add it to Debian to fully be rid of windows?
This tool stinks of management requesting a better way to spy the employees. It has little to no benefits for the user.
I'm not sure any company wants to have recordings of their employees screens feed to Microsoft servers. It could never happen at my company because of the amount of private information we deal with. Privacy laws, NDAs, you name it. There's no way we could enable this without a shit storm of risk.
Their feature may come back to their OS but their OS isn’t coming back to my hardware.
I wonder why are they so invested into this "feature".
Building a fully trained model on user preferences/habits is the holy grail of marketing.
You can infer user intelligence, addictive personalities, and vices. You can couple that with income and likelihood to spend.
When you pull that kind of data from email or even from web browsing, you don't get the kind of depth that you can get from a trained model.
There's models with all your habits and preferences, they're worth serious money. And that's why Microsoft is pushing so hard to make sure you log in with a online account.
Honestly, it's an exciting feature. I just don't trust anyone to build it, or even myself to keep it safe.
Up front disclaimer: this is all conjure on my part.
I own an "AI" laptop (only because I was interested in a snapdragon x). Most of the AI enabled features don't really require a NPU, such as a decent background camera blur, some paint and photo stuff, live captions, etc. Microsoft was looking for a headline feature that didn't already have a CPU/GPU/cloud implementation. Enter: recal.
IMO this is very much about finding a novel feature, that doesn't have an alternate implementation. The near term motive is to justify their "AI" PCs to customers in hops that customers adopt them. I suspect the long term goal is opening up a revenue stream for AI - get customers used to "AI enabled" features and then tack a subscription cost onto them, but I truly hope this won't be the case - especially when the hardware you own has a NPU.
I find npus dumb just to boost ai performance what the hell a cpu and gpu is enough
The tendency of the rate of profit to fall is here again. They really do need to squeeze those dollars out
Since Recall is constantly watching what you do, is it plausible that it could summarize and quantify for an employer how much work is being done on the machine during work hours?
Or not being done. Recall absolutely will not take into account how many "run & gun" hallway meetings you will have for a simple example, let alone researching an issue on your phone while you shit.
Plenty of productivity & engagement measurement tools already exist anyhow.
From: [email protected]
Subject: [ACTION REQUIRED] Work Policy ViolationDear Wayge Slavei,
Your working performance has been reviewed, and you have been found to be in violation of Bigcorpo workplace policies. As per your contract, you are required to take a 30-minute break for lunch and entitled two additional 15-minute breaks to use at your discretion.
As identified to our policy review process, you have multiple periods of inactivity throughout the work week, including:
- 42 to 59 minutes of inactivity during Wednesdays at 2 PM
- 27 to 56 minutes of inactivity every day from 12:30 to 1 PM.
These periods of unsanctioned inactivity are against corporate policy, and you will be required to attend mandatory training, which will take place virtually on Wednesdays, after the company-wide weekly All-Hands Project Alignment meetings from 2 to 3. Continued violations will result in your termination.
Thank you,
Douche Nozzle
I'm glad I don't use Winbloat
Honestly this might be useful to the home user but everyone is right to be skeptical. The bigger value for the software is corporate surveillance. They will be able to see exactly how much time WFH workers are actually working and will probably want it for exfiltration prevention. The target user might not be able to avoid using it no matter what.
It's 1000%going to be used for corporate surveillance.
Features to do this from other vendors are already in use.
I'm glad people are starting to care about digital privacy even after three decades of people like me being annoying
Another day I'm thankful I don't work for a company that uses microshit anymore
Of course it is coming back.
It will keep coming until plebs accept parasite.
I use Arch Linux... btw
Seriously, the alternatives are there... It's time to take the leap and never look back.
Not a problem for me, since I plan to stop using Windows in 2025.
Much like Chrome forced me to Firefox, Windows will force me to Linux. It is inevitable.
I recommend at least dual booting before then, so you can get a feel for what the alternative is capable of. You don't want to switch, run into a hiccup, then have to decide whether to push through whatever incompatibility that is, or switch to something terrible. Work through those problems at your own pace in a dual-boot setup, and once you're ready to ditch Windows, everything is already ready.
Yeah, that's what I actually did on my secondary computer (laptop), where I dual booted Windows 10 and openSUSE Tumbleweed, before switching entirely to openSUSE.
I am planning to do the same for my main PC, but instead of doing different partitions for each OS, I will most likely give Linux (probably openSUSE as well, but I might try Fedora Atomic this time) an entire SSD for it's use.
I can see the use case, and that some people might find this useful (not to mention many agencies and ad companies). But enough was enough, for me at least. Linux Mint rocks. Can't see myself going back to Windows.
this is gonna get people to either switch to macos or linux
The whole idea of windows 11 made me switch to Linux, already unhappy with windows 10 but that was bearable for me.
Sucks that I work in windows though.
atleast windows 10 is actually good and has good app support but it has some spyware
To the title of this article /post, all I can say is Duh.
It is funny how they think this product useful to so many people. I believe they only do it because they have to use AI in any way but could not come up with something better.
The writing is on the wall, they are not giving up on that potential cash cow. I won't use it, hell I don't use windows, but there are normal computer users that will have it thrust upon on them and won't know how to really turn it off.
So based on the requirements, it sounds like a lot of PCs just can't run recall anyways?
Lots of comments in here saying this sends stuff to Microsoft and yet that isn't true. It's an offline local feature.
I personally look forward to giving it a try.
Perhaps for a few quarters or years until you're locked in. Infinite growth demanded by investors make the eventual harvest as sure to come as taxes and death
Did they make hard commitments to 100% keep the data local and never use it to spy on you? What does their privacy policy say? Come on dude, we're talking about microsoft. You're more likely to receive millions from a nigerian prince than to get some privacy from them.
A Google search later: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15
All local. Nothing sent. You can choose to not believe it, but it's deceptive to imply they don't say it's local.
If you don't believe them it's one thing but they said what they said.
Wanna buy a bridge?
