I'm cis. I'm a cis man with a exclusive sexual interest in cis women. I find the term very helpful to express very clearly who I am and what I want. I can't imagine being so delicate as to lose my shit over being called cis.
I find the word as displeasing as some people find 'moist', but I'm entitled to an opinion. Am I going to wave a sign around and demonstrate over it despite thinking it was promoted for its potential to upset the victim? Of course not: it's just a stupid name and I've been called far worse by better drill sergeants. There's a lot of room in there between disliking something and "losing my shit over" it, and it will help respecting others if you understand that.
Hi! I know this might just be the wrong context at this point as you are already getting flak, but I was curious and wanted to ask why you have exclusive sexual interest in cis women?
For example I would imagine some heterosexual cis men would have a hard time dating a trans woman who haven't had bottom surgery or who are early in their transition (in which case sometimes the sexual preference is phrased as a genital preference rather than about exclusively dating cis people).
Some women who for various reasons pass well as cis are not distinguishable from cis women, and in that case I assume based on your statement you still would have a hard time dating that person if you found out they were trans.
For example, based on your statement I assume you wouldn't date or be attracted to Nava Mau.
I understand if you don't want to answer, it's not like this is the best context and it is a vulnerable topic - just wanted to extend an olive branch in case you wanted to talk and think about it with less judgement.
Hi. I'm happy to talk to someone who wants to have a reasonable conversation.
Just some context. My wife is bisexual, my sister is bisexual, my daughter is a lesbian, my son and daughter both have non-binary and trans friends who I regularly spend time with, I have gay friends and lesbian friends, I was a member of the wedding party at a same sex wedding, I am friends with a local transmasc, and I've had a pair of transfem friends for more than 50 years. I am very much an ally to the LGBTQ+ community.
I have always been straight and have always been interested in women. My experience with my two long time transfem friends colors my preference. Both have very serious mental health issues. One is post-surgical, the other will never be able to get surgery. I do not find Nava Manu attractive but that is strictly a funcion of what I see as vary sharp facial features. She reminds me of Theodora Elphaba. Jaime Clayton, on the other hand, I find very attractive. I'm not completely closed to the idea of a relationship with a trans woman but in my fairly broad experience with trans women I have never encountered anyone who I would be at all interested in having a relationship with. Thus, my preference is for cis women.
If someone says they're not interested in dating Republicans, it doesn't mean they are any better than the average person at picking one out from a crowd.
In fact, the American Psychological Association warns that manhood and masculinity are so construed by society's expectations, that being a man poses mental health risks itself.
There is a whole subdiscipline that focuses on 'counseling men".
Not to mention no one of this lot wants to have this discussion, either online or IRL.
That is literally exactly what is happening. MtF transwomen are considered men by haters and hence get the male treatment of crass jokes and lack of support.
Is every word and number going to get colonised as dogwhistle until all of language has become a minefield ?
Why do we even give air to this shit ?
It seems to me acknowledging it is to give it power and legitimacy.
Kind of like asking if we can stop picking up stones and rocks and using them to beat each other and instead use them to build homes.
This isn't a new fight. There will always be people who take our tools and abuse them by using them to hurt others. That's what we're fighting against, people who use our tools to hurt people instead of doing good. Unfortunately, if we just let people who collect stones and sticks for hurting people be, and not push them out of our village, they will just grow in number and strength so we can't just block it out, we can't live and let live around those who would take your life if they grew strong enough.
If it's tiring and annoying to see people have to always yell at the club-and-rock-wielding thugs and throw rocks back at them, you don't have to get involved, but don't decry those who DO have the courage to throw rocks back. If they didn't do this, the rocks would start hitting you next.
I'm not trans but don't understand why I have to accept being called cis.
My gaming friend who's m-f is a female now, sure, whatever works for her. But why must I suddenly have a name for something I am. I didn't choose any of this? Is it actually made to anoy me, it doesn't. Is it something that happens because, in the modern day we live in, this is just a change that has to happen? I don't know, probably.
What I do know is that the trans community is, in many cases, so unrelentingly hostile towards cis, because many don't understand. Even against trans people, some communities create so many rules. My friend had trouble trying to fit in because she wasn't trans enough for her discord group. Wtf?
Bottom line for me is; were all human, and that is more a problem than gender. Jealousy, pride, ego, it's all part of a human and that goes for cis/trans and the lot.
And I think alot of cis people hate being called that because it's new and it feels aggressive.
Can't wait for someone to smack me down for my opinion
don't understand why I have to accept being called cis.
Because that's what you are. It's a statement of fact, not an insult
But why must I suddenly have a name for something I am
Cisgender isn't a new term. Also, it's because trans people are actually somewhat accepted now so we need a more mainstream way to reference people who are and are not. Really simple concept
What I do know is that the trans community is, in many cases, so unrelentingly hostile towards cis
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. You're not the victim here, stop it.
Bottom line for me is; were all human, and that is more a problem than gender. Jealousy, pride, ego, it's all part of a human and that goes for cis/trans and the lot.
Bullshit. If that were true you wouldn't care about being called cis.
And I think alot of cis people hate being called that because it's new and it feels aggressive.
It only feels aggressive to those who have been saying sht like "tranny" with bile in their tone, likely because theyre projecting their intentions.
Can't wait for someone to smack me down for my opinion
You don’t have to accept being called anything. Doesn’t have much use outside the Internet anyway.
You don’t say “That trans person over there” or “That cis chick over there” or “That gay dude over there.” You say their names. (Or “that person” if you don’t.)
Because no one is really going to care about my sexual orientation in a formal setting or when they come across me or another random person at the grocery store.
You can call me a leaf for all I care. We most likely won’t be seeing each other the next day anyway.
I’m not trans but don’t understand why I have to accept being called cis.
Cis is literally just a root term meaning "not trans" I.E. "identifies with gender assigned at birth. I.E. full correlation between sex and gender, biologically (i'm using the interpretation that in trans people, there is a biological desync somewhere along the line, separating physical sex, and mental sex, causing the "trans-ness" to exist, you probably shouldn't disagree with me, because the research and lived experience behind this stuff supports it)
It's like me talking about your ethnicity. There is literally nothing you can do to have control over it, it's a fully observed concept, there is no "applied" conceptualization of the term cis. Just like there is no active conceptualization of the term "human"
My gaming friend who’s m-f is a female now, sure, whatever works for her. But why must I suddenly have a name for something I am. I didn’t choose any of this?
yeah, none of us did, i didn't fucking want to be born, i didn't decide to exist, and even if i did, it wasn't here on this hell hole of a planet. Who gives a shit that people call you cis, because you are literally, objectively cis. You are arguing the most fundamental aspects of philosophy here. You might as well engage in nihilism if this hurts your soul.
Is it actually made to anoy me, it doesn’t.
no, it's not. It's not supposed to. It's a mechanism for classifying your existence in a broader, undefined society, that is experiencing challenges of definition more broadly across the whole of the field this term specifically resides in. In fact, healthcare in general, is experiencing a minor revolution.
if you're curious about why they exist, have a look into social gender expression, or gender identity more broadly, modern or historical (historical being 1950's) hell you can even go into ancient human history and see the same thing, though it's often different from how it is now. There were still clear distinctions in how things worked.
Things change, as they always have, and will continue to change, Change is good, it signals technological evolution, and social progress. There is nothing inherently bad about change. I mean sure there's bad change. Like hitler, for example. But if hitler didn't exist, there is no guarantee that we wouldn't still be fighting like the british were during the revolutionary war.
What I do know is that the trans community is, in many cases, so unrelentingly hostile towards cis, because many don’t understand. Even against trans people, some communities create so many rules. My friend had trouble trying to fit in because she wasn’t trans enough for her discord group. Wtf?
in defense of the internet, you are asking a pretty stupid question. It's like being mad when someone refers to you by your proper honorific title. It's just, fucking weird.
and infighting in the queer community is a thing, it's a big problem as of late, although that's a different story and nobody really knows how to classify it or what to do about it at this moment.
And I think alot of cis people hate being called that because it’s new and it feels aggressive.
yeah, you're correct about it being new, people are apprehensive to change. It's normal, doesn't mean you need to express it though. Also, it likely feels aggressive to you because you haven't been classified before in your life time, to this degree at least. Chances are, you don't like it now, even though you've probably done the same thing to other people, and you've almost certainly seen this done to other people throughout your life, aware or not. Gay people were considered mentally ill up until the 70's and it was only really more normalized in the 90's.
BTW, i recommend you do some reading on the Schizoid personality disorder, and do some thinking about how it feels to be classified. It's better than being socially shunned, consciously or not.
If you feel like your life is crumbling because you're being called cis, you might want to think back to what red lining was like, or what the pushback against the gays was like, or what it was like being japanese in the US shortly after pearl harbor, or being muslim in the US any time after 9/11, or jewish, just in general. Or like a minority in an oppressive state/regime.
To sum it up here, you're complaining about being called cis. It's not a slur, it's not an insult, it's not degrading, it's just a classification term. And this is apparently, the most important problem in your life right this moment, judging by the fact that you left a comment about it. You're not worried about putting food on the table, or being sane, or fitting in with society, or being able to function within it, putting gas in your car, getting to work, having work, being able to do your job, and being able to live in general.
It's a rather privileged problem to have, and you should think about how good your life is, rather than how bad it is.
“cis” and “trans” are prefixes denoting on what “side” something is. “cis” means “on this/our side”, while “trans” refers to “the other side”, for example:
“Cisalpina” is how the Romans referred to their side of the Alps (modern day Italy), while “Transalpina” referred to land on the other side of the alps.
There exist certain pairs of molecules with either a “cis” or “trans” prefix, depending on whether certain identical groups are on the same side or on opposite sides, respectively.
The modern use of “cis” and “trans” is generally about gender. A cisgender person is someone whose gender identity aligns with their sex assigned at birth, while a transgender person is someone for whom that doesn’t hold true.
In this meme, the person on the right is wearing a transgender flag for a shirt, and presumably offending the cisgender person on the left by calling them cis. The meme is making fun of the fact that some cisgender people consider “cis” an insult, when it really only is a neutral and non-offensive description.
I try to make this as exeggerated and stupid of an example as possible if I got it right:
So… let’s say if a 37 year old man, born male, with a wife, born female, who is married with kids with a house in suburbia and stable income, calls some regular thai ladyboy a “fag”, while said ladyboy counters “pretty harsh tone for a cis” and then that 37 year old man gets angry over the fact that he’s being called “cis”… That man is being angry about the fact that he is being called non-trans?
Thanks for the clear explenation! Further comments say it's a pretty neutral identification, but to me it sounds like there's two sides of it and one is bad. I presume this feeling is incorrect?
It’s short for cisgender, which is basically the opposite of transgender. Cis and trans are both Latin prefixes, meaning ‘same side of’ and ‘opposite side of.’
Ohhhhh. I wish that were explained more. My only problem with the term "cis" is that it seemed to come from nowhere, a made-up term out of a random syllable that was suddenly being applied to people.
Like Inside as the outside. Do you feel like a man and were born male, do you feel like a woman and were born female? Then you are cis. It's the opposite of trans: inside not like the outside.
Ooh, thanks for the insight!
So does that mean one could be Cis and Gay for example? As in feeling like a man and born male, and also attracted to men?
Wasn't cis and trans isomerism a part of Chemistry from classes 9-12, or maybe it's just stuff education system in some countries don't teach? I'm genuinely curious if you were/were not taught this in your school days?
The use of the word cis has its roots in an obscure Usenet group; it's genesis (apparently) rooted in a desire for more inclusive language for trans folks (the notion that "gender" Vs "transgender" was too othering).
It hit Tumblr like a train in the 2010s, and became a symbolic phrase in trans counterculture. "Cisgender" was less than popular with non-trans people, as it robbed them of the illusion of normality and turned the word "gender" into a social trap.
It later found derogatory use in the phrase "cissy" (a counter for the popular derogatory term "tranny").
It's a fun word with an interesting history, and it has helped contribute to the wider acceptance of trans folks.
Samesies. Here for the support and the dank memes. Not offended to get labeled. I'm also questioning if most cisgender people take offense to the label. I feel like most wouldn't. Maybe we're talking about the minority that gets triggered by words that they don't understand. I hope y'all don't rope the whole cis culture in with the haters, because you don't have to be queer to understand the plight of non-binary peoples. Just sayin'.
Yeah I mean I definitely don't understand the whole non-binary thing, to me it seems silly. But they aren't hurting anyone, or affecting my life in any way, so why care?
This thread is such a microcosm of today's discourse.
Everyone attributing malice to anyone they don't agree with, everyone looking to dunk on people and up votes / down votes piling on in batches based on trends.
It is possible to not immediately be on board with new terms without being a bigot. Sometimes it's just a misunderstanding or lack of knowledge or sometimes just preference.
I've said it before I will address people as they wish to be addressed. If somone has been called a straight male for all their life and they want to be called that it changes nothing for me. Calling them a bigot is counterproductive and just causes divides for no reason.