FF is doing great. All the have to do now is the Steam strategy. Do nothing and wait for the competition to fuck themselves over.
You mean hope that they too don't become subject to enshittification? I don't have a lot of faith in that.
Besides that, Google is controlling as fuck. They might keep fucking themselves over but there's no way they won't start attempting to ruin things for the rest of us.
Thats the problem tho, the new mozilla leadership is on the "do anything but nothing" ship. I really hope they either dont do anything too horrible or someone forks it if they do.
there are already forks in place if you're dissatisfied with firefox like librewolf, floorp or the new one from mullvad
Yeah, it's been a huge waste of resources trying to reinvent everything.
Steam's strategy was to be first to market and essentially the only player in the game for a decade, making themselves the default.
I disagree. While what you said is true, they also have by faaaar the best launcher and features - for both users and developers. They are not perfect, but compared to the competition...
I love Firefox, but I can’t shake the feeling that it is slower on YouTube. My tinfoil hat theory is that Google somehow throttles YouTube on Firefox.
I'm pretty sure someone discovered that is true recently, but can't be assed to try to find it right now.
They used to also use the unreleased version 0 of shadow DOM for building the Polymer UI, which - being a Chrome-only prototype - understandably didn't work on Firefox, and therefore instead used a really slow Javascript polyfill to render its UI.
I haven't checked on it lately, but I imagine they must've changed at least that by now.
It's not tinfoil, they have been caught doing it and they continue to do it. It's a scumbag company.
How the fuck they haven't been slapped with an anticompetitive is beyon - oohh right. End stage capitalism
Well, Google will probably optimize their shit for their own
privacy invasion sniffing toolbrowser twice as hard as for Firefox and suchGoogle does that a lot with their own web properties. I remember Google Meet didn't support background replacement on Firefox, but switching Firefox's user agent to Chrome suddenly fixed it.
Google Sheets is a mess on FF too. Cell selection is broken af.
For YouTube on IOS, I use Brave. It does a decent (but not perfect) job of hiding ads on YT.
Same happens with Safari. The page loads in a weird funky way, video sorta first and then comments and suggestions many seconds later.
On Chrome on the exact same computer it’s instant.
They’re doing it on purpose.
Do you use YouTube so much that a small performance difference on a single Site has an influence on your browser choice?
You haven't experienced slow until you try to take Firefox through Google Cloud Console or Search Tools. 15 seconds in Chrome, somehow turns into 3 minutes in Firefox, funny how it does that.
Ironically I use a chrome type browser for YouTube and mail checking only. This is also the only browser in which I am logged in with my Google account.
My main Firefox is for everything else including search.
I tried both and the videos played at the same speed for me
Google somehow throttles YouTube on Firefox.
Because they do. A while back, it was discovered they were injecting delays if they detected Firefox as your user agent.
Google definitely did extend video loading times on FF a while ago, not sure if they still do it.
@TheCheddarCheese @HKPiax indeed they do. They also cripple Gmail and docs on Firefox as well.
Firefox is good for webpages not web apps
That's a really weird take. Like… what even is the difference supposed to be?
This sounds more like “everything should be as it was back when <insert arbitrary point in time here>! When there were still Webpages, and we were frolicking about the internet! Until
the fire nation attackedWeb apps took over!”A web app is just a fancy name for a dynamic web page. Change my mind.
chrome used to be good. Emphasis on the past tense.
Firefox was always good. Chrome was very briefly better. Firefox has not suffered enshittification like chrome did.
This. Firefox has always been just good. It wasn't great or anything, it was just a good browser. Then chrome came around and it had more, better features. It was a bit more memory usage, but those were for the additional features Firefox didn't have.
Firefox didn't really change a whole lot, it added synching features across accounts, and didn't get worse. It just stayed the same.
The people made Firefox better, because now they're creating add-ons for Firefox, where chrome had more.
I feel like once chrome got the majority of browser users, it immediately started going to shit. I have no proof of this, just a memory of it being better until it was announced that chrome was the most used browser, and the near immediate heavier memory usage.
I mean, I clearly remember firefox being terrible back when Chrome was just beginning to take off.
It was a lumbering monolith that ate all your ram and loaded pages at a glacial pace. Chrome was a multi-process revolution from that.
Then, firefox got it's shit together and chrome got overloaded with corpo bullshit.
It used to take firefox ages to open. I switched back after the big update in the mid 2010s that made it good again.
firefox is going on a steady decline more recently with ads on the homepage by default, plus new telemetry being introduced. hopefully it can change direction
People saying FF is slower: like how much slower? are we taking like 14 millisecond slower? Cause everything seems pretty instantaneous here. Maybe its because i'm old enough to remember DSL and 56k internet, but I think FF os crazy fast and even if Chrome would be 25% faster I wouldn't switch to evil google for that.
It used to be a lot slower, which is why when Chrome showed up with its shiny new V8 engine (and other features) people switched from Firefox en masse. Now the performance difference is no longer noticeable.
Ye a few months ago I remember that the benchmarks showed firefox was just as fast as chrome again or minimally faster/slower in certain benchmarks
61 Firefox windows and 427 tabs (don't judge, I know I have a problem) and I have no performance complaints - admittedly, not all of them are active/rendering simultaniously, but still...
Firefox (and its forks) have been my go-to for 15 years.
Last time I tried it? Like freeze and be unresponsive on my phone for seconds at a time slow. (My phone doesn't lock up though, I can still go to the home screen, swipe to see notifications so it's not the phone locking up completely)
Yes, this. Many pages have a 5-15 second blank delay for reasons I can't figure out when using Firefox. I still use Firefox, but that delay is rough on my blood pressure some days.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Firefox-Chrome-109-Benchmarks
I wish firefox was faster but benchmarks are pretty common, it's not hard to test. It's kind of an unfair fight at this point honestly, large swaths of the web are just built for chrome. There are other benchmark options out there, but even using Mozilla's own kraken benchmarking solution, it loses tremendously more than it wins. I honestly really respect them for not building their benchmarking system to make their solutions come out on top.
In some benchmarks the lag from firefox is very significant and then on the other hand, when firefox does win, chrome is usually right behind it. It's not ideal.
It's clear, slower is relative. FF is slower in the startup and rendering some heavy loading webs, but the difference certainly isn't sooo dramatic. It's not a reason to avoid it, the only reason depends of the use of a browser, if it fits your needs or not.
Honestly, I'm less worried about the speed and moreso I just don't like supporting Google's de facto monopoly of the Web's infrastructure.
The thing is, using a Chromium-based browser isn't contributing to their monopoly unless Google holds sway over the fork. Brave, Vivaldi, those two are generally fine and stand against what Google has been up to.
They are contributing to Google's hold over web specs. If Google decides to implement a feature off spec, then website developers will optimise for that implementation because it will be the implementation used by all chromium based browsers. And that leads to worse performance for other browsers with a more correct implementation.
Sure it is. Everyone starts trying to be sure things render correctly on Chromium based browsers and nothing else. Next thing you know people say "Wow Chromium based browsers render pages more reliably than everything else" and then you end up somewhere not too differently from where we were heading. Everything that's not based on Chromium starts getting tossed aside.
I remember when Chrome was released, all marketing was on how much faster it rendered webpages, I never saw that as an issue, Firefox was fast enough, I tried Chrome for a bit, and hated the UI, I remember being confused as to why everyone loved Chrome suddenly, and frankly, I still am a bit confused by both the sudden shift, and the absolute market dominance by Chrome...
I remember being confused as to why everyone loved Chrome suddenly
Because they were still using Explorer before that
Fair, I can see that, I guess my question was more for the people who already had switched to Firefox
I switched from FFX to Chrome back in the day because Chrome tabs were all independent processes in task manager, and one crappy website wouldn't kill my whole browser.
When Google started their war on addons, I switched back to Firefox.
I grew up with a 56k modem. Anything after adsl is warp speed for me. I never understood or observed the speed differences between browsers.
Maybe I'm just so slow myself that I dont notice the difference but come on.. how much can it be? A few seconds? Who is so busy that a few seconds is a worthy amount of time to try and save (not talking about F1 drivers here)?
With browsers it added up to a few seconds of difference per day. It was completely preposterous.
Over the years my customized Firefox looks like chrome ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I hated Chrome's UI so much that I switched from Firefox to Pale Moon when Firefox started the whole Australis design language, and only switched back when the current design was launched
Firefox is slower, not because it's worse, but Gecko is a minority engine in the web (~3-4%) and because of this the most webs are optimized for Blink. That is the only reason and because most current Browsers are using it, a devils circle. The result of leaving Google hands-free for too long and that for 20 years the number of available engines has remained stagnant (3 and some testimonial exotic forks) because it is the most complicated part of a browser. Little can be done now.
Well, Apples WebKit is even worse than Gecko, as a small consolation for FF users.
If you're switching a couple extensions are uBlock origin and no script with Firefox, prevents most ads and lets you choose which hosts to accept JavaScript from temporarily or permanently.
noscript is your web condom. I will not touch a page without it.
I use ghostery to remove the obnoxious cookie popups here in the EU.
Vivaldi has in its inbuild ad/trackerblocker also filters to block cookie popups, no problem with this
I have been on the firefox train since it was new. I witnessed the rise of Chrome and Chromium, and never really felt the pull, and worried about everyone targeting the same platform. Figured I'd stay on FF until I had no choice. Don't see myself leaving.
Figured I’d stay on FF until I had no choice. Don’t see myself leaving.
i'm in a similar boat and given the overwhelming majority popular use of chrome, it feels clear to me that firefox will eventually stop working and i wonder what surfing will like like for me in the future.
i suspect i'll have to go back to use chrome again.
I'm gonna be honest.
The main reason I don't like Firefox is the ui.
It's one of those things where I've been using chrome for so long that switching to anything else is infuriating. Trying to learn the layout and all the features. Trying to figure out how to do things that are intuitively design on Google.
If someone made pretty much a 1 to 1 copy of Google without all the bullshit I'd use it in a heartbeat.
You can drag and drop your toolbar, extensions, and layout.
I have the same problem the other way around. When I use chrome it feels like I'm using a kids browser. Slightly cutesy with too many curvy bits. Sort of like the difference between Duplo (chrome) and Lego (Firefox). Basically the same thing, but also not.
UI in Vivaldi is unique, you can set it to simple as an old IE or to an dashboard of an Spaceshuttle and everything in between in the settings and more with CSS. Also using of more than 4000 themes, or made and share your own. You can install Chrome extensions, but most are redundant because of the own inbuild ones, or even install directly userscripts as extensions.
This is certainly a hurdle to overcome. Google helped by changing the Chrome UI for the worse in some ways I care about, but migrating to a new browser and getting used to different UI is enough of a hassle that I'm still holding out until adblock actually stops working before I make the switch.
I've switched to Firefox but there's definitely a few things that irritate me about it.
First thing is when I boot up my computer, launch Firefox, it launches long enough for me to click a bookmark then closes to perform an update. And then doesn't automatically reopen...
I also have it set to not "remember" my tabs after closing. Yet when I launch Firefox for the first time after rebooting or closing ally tabs, it gives me a "hmm.. we're having a hard time finding your previous session" message. Uh, yeah, I told you not to look for it.. can I just have the regular "new tab" page?
It also might just be because I'm used to chrome, but I feel the mobile app is severely lacking. I hate that I can't access my bookmarks directly from the new tab page, and that the tablet version doesn't show you your bookmark bar. The synchronization between mobile and desktop isn't great either, I'll have a very long specific search query that I've used multiple times on my phone, yet it doesn't offer it for auto-complete on desktop, I have to search the entire term again or go digging through my history. When you're searching long model numbers and the like, this is incredibly frustrating.
Finally, and I don't know if this is a Firefox issue, but there's some memory leak that occurs when viewing a webcam stream from my raspberry pi that only has happened in Firefox. The first time I noticed it happening my PC slowed to a crawl, when task manager finally opened Firefox was taking 23GB of RAM. So I have to use chrome to keep that steam open for more than a few minutes at a time.
This might be fixed on Firefox nightly
Lol the webcam thing hanned to me too.
Firefox masterrace
Everything enshitifies... Everything, problem that worries me that, Firefox will enshitify like this too one day
At that point it will be forked yet again, and that fork will take over. Mozilla is a very active open source member though.
Mozilla has no traditional profit motive. The Mozilla Corporation, which develops Firefox, is a 100% subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation, which is legally a non-profit organisation.
So, if the Mozilla Corporation makes a profit, they cannot pay out that profit to shareholders. Practically all they can do with that money, is to pay higher wages or set it aside for future invest in their products.
That does not mean that they cannot stagnate or use money badly. And it does not either mean that they never need to make money. But it does mean that there's no shareholders demanding short-term profit above all else.
The browsers are all quite good at copying your links, tabs, and history. Don't worry, there will always be a good option, especially since open source has no strong path to enshittification
I never really cared that a browser could load a page in 1.5 seconds instead of 1.9.... I mean who cares?
I didn't care until it consistently loaded faster.
That's now my new baseline, and anything slower than 'instant' is annoying.
I would care if that was no longer the case, because I don't like being constantly annoyed.That said, I don't think the page loading speed is noticeably different between major browsers.
The addons, customisation, privacy and resource usage are where it's at.I'm just hoping that some competition to chromium stays afloat.
I'd like to try out ff but I'd have to use it for a few days. Is it possible to possible to sync passwords and bookmarks with my Google account like chrome? How's the touchscreen support?
Not with your Google account directly. You create a Firefox account that is client-side encrypted, and you'll probably use your Gmail for that. Then, you can import your bookmarks/passwords from there. This might be a good time to move your passwords to an actual password manager like Bitwarden.
Firefox mobile isn't there yet. Passwords will conveniently autofill from your Google account thanks to the Android level implementation of password management, but more importantly it's resource heavy and bad UI design. Ublock support is nice but some websites just don't deal with it well. The nightly builds do fix my main problems with the UI but they crash all the time. So there's hope for the future, but for now it's not great unless you absolutely need proper browser level ad blocking rather than Blokada.
Tbh I switched to Firefox mobile from Chrome and have the opposite experience. While it is in someway less convenient for auto fill, as long as my Google account is logged in on another browser page I can always use it for that and they have password and credit card auto fill features should you want to take care of them.
One thing I've been annoyed with after switching to Firefox is the iffy password manager performance. It's so common for it not to remember a password that it should, or, weirdly, for it to only remember the password once I've typed the whole username in and hit tab.
Functionality wise, chrome is better than Firefox but it's bad when it comes to privacy and ads
What is literally one thing Chrome can do that Firefox cannot? Cause I can tell you right now, after tomorrow, only one can block ads.
To be fair, Chrome does generally render most websites faster and correctly. I have Chrome installed just in case of some webpages not working with Firefox. Now, that's not Mozillas fault, but from user standpoint makes Chrome more attractive browser to use.
WebGPU, WebHID and h.265 are all unsupported on firefox
that said, i still daily drive firefox with mostly no problems, but saying that it can do everything chrome can is just flat out wrong
this is by design mind you, chrome have a big enough market share that they can basically just add whatever they want to the web standards and all other browsers just have to try to keep up. i imagine that's part of the reason that chromium skins are so widespread
By default, I doubt that Firefox is better at privacy than Chrome. Actually even worse than Chrome I'd say. But you can customize Firefox to be much more privacy friendlier than Chrome. That is the functionality Chrome lacks. The last time I tried out Ungoogled chromium, it sucked ass. Websites actually loaded slower than on Firefox for me. And both had uBlock Origin installed. I tried those fancy GPU stuff as well, almost nothing changed.
I usualy love it, but for some reason Firefox fails to retrieve web pages about 75% of the time when on the internet connection at my parent's house, and I don't know why.
It acts like a DNS failure, but the DNS settings are the same in Firefox, Chrome, and the router.
Meanwhile Chrome and Edge work great.
Probably secure DNS? Try disabling that in the privacy settings page.
That kid is superior
does anyone recommend any Firefox alternatives? I genuinely hate Firefox's UI and keybinds and the scrolling tabs
you may not even have to change to another browser or fork, please have a look at some designs in https://trickypr.github.io/FirefoxCSS-Store.github.io/ select a design and follow the page, and you shall find the instructions (usually just downloading/pasting userChrome/Content.css)
and for scrolling tabs, if your problem is very small tab size, then try changing
browser.tabs.tabMinWidthin about:configFloorp, I use it and I love it. It's especially great for Opera refugees, it has workspaces and stuff. Soon Firefox will support tab groups natively, and then Floorp will be perfect. It's a Firefox fork though.
Tab groups and non-independent tab muting (seems like it was domain-specific rather than tab-specific last I tried) are the two main things that kept me from switching back to FF as my primary browser (still use it for DTA, for example, but DTA got a big nerf back during the major extension overhaul, so that was a letdown). Tried some extensions, but none really worked in a way I considered usable and didn't want to just keep trial and erroring through them given I already have a browser that functionally meets my needs, even if I'd rather not be using a chromium browser.
If native tab groups work well enough, I'll probably give it another chance.
Same as the flavors of Ubuntu are superior to Ubuntu it's self, the forks of Firefox are better than Firefox it self.
Mfw when plebs are still using GUI browsers while I use Lynx.
w3m with framebuffer image support, my man.
Pfhh images. Back in my dad we had ASCII art. And we liked it!
Maybe not the best image to use. Sheep bleating on about Firefox.
pretty sure thats a goat. rugged, contrary and independent. one might even say... the Greatest Of All Time.
Firefox will become good to me when it gets the extensions that I need for work.
Orion > FF > Chrome
Don't care. I use Brave.
Yay, another Chromium based web browser. That will show them.....
You are definitely brave to admit that.
Ew.
boss i'm tired of those cycles