Reminder...

I’ll say this: Though the result is the same, I feel much more okay with posts pushing a specific third party they’re inspired by than going the same “anybody else” route we take with Biden without actually naming someone or listing policies.

When they don’t name anyone, I’m more likely to agree with you it’s just a distraction unwilling to focus on a genuine plan of action.

Likewise, a lot of "Biden or else" is sure starting to feel like a cult that's turning "no more genocide" as a "is vote for Trump" election campaign.

You're a flawed democracy with an outdated election system. The FPTP one seat districts forces two party politics.

While that may be true, nothing will fix that in this upcoming election. Vote Biden, then set to work fixing our democracy.

Popping up every four years and complain about the two party system, only to disappear afterwards is never going to solve the problem.

I hate this line of thinking so much. Flawed democracies are still democracies. Democracy isn't a word that means "fair elections".

We're a republic.

Not in a two party system.

Hi! I'm a mathematician. I specialize in creating logical arguments as well as finding and explaining the flaws thereof. The Black and White fallacy does not apply here. First, we need to keep in mind the principle of charity, whereby we try to figure out what was meant by our interlocutors when we argue with them, as far as we can by what they said. In this case, the argument here is not literally that all votes that are for someone other than Biden are instead counted for Trump (this premise would have a great many flaws far beyond the fallacy you gave) rather, it is a statement of the failures of certain voting strategies which are well-established mathematical facts. Specifically, if you prefer candidate A over candidate B, and all other candidates have a combined extremely small chance of winning, choosing not to vote for candidate A is effectively making candidate B's victory more likely.

Hope that clears things up.

It's really an orange or grey thing.

The only "black and white" part of this is that Biden or trump WILL win the election.

It's not black and white, but red and blue.

Fallacies apply to debate, not to actions like voting.

Ideological purity is great from the privileged position you must be in. The real results of Stein voters in the last election is millions losing rights to bodily autonomy, children being forcibly separated from families, a Christian nationalism Supreme Court, and a president playing favorites during the worst pandemic in living memory. There may be some compromises needed to fix a broken system but third parties are not likely to do anything except split the vote and cause harm

So you aren’t familiar with first past the post voting? Here’s a hint, it’s “how voting works” in this country.

So you voting for fascist cheeto or brain worms?

It's how it works in a two party system.

If you think a 3rd party candidate has any hope of winning this year, you're delusional.

I'm not sure you understand first past the post, and how it disenfranchises you

You can tell we have a great system of governance by how it encourages us to gaslight ourselves to relieve the cognitive dissonance it creates.

I respect your decision even though I can't vote for Genocide Joe. I'm so tired of people trying to guilt me into voting for him like they have a say over my vote.

Those ones were never going to vote for Biden anyways but it's fun for them to pretend.

It's not about who will vote for who. It's about creating controversy around Biden to suppress voter turn out.

You could vote for a cow painted purple for all I care but if you're spending all your energy pointing out Bidens obvious flaws and giving Trump a pass you're actions tell me all I need to know.

Hell, I don't even care if you were in the street protesting but to sit back and meme Trump into office is just bullshit.

Why we don't have a handful of 30-something people with brains to choose from I don't know. We're so fucked with this 2 party system- old fart who isn't a dick vs old fart who is literally a dick that speaks dick-speak isn't acceptable

I’ve encountered similar “discussions.”

You can also point out that the President cannot decriminalize a drug. That requires an act of Congress. This is the link to the bill most likely to see a vote. It includes record expungement as well as decriminalization. It’s cosponsored by 113 Democrats and Matt Gaetz, ‘cause he knows how to party.

Yeah it really sucks that Trump's going to be elected, but at least a select group of people on Lemmy can feel validated

How so? Neither of them have any say in third-party candidates. They’re running under Green Party, No Labels, and Third Way.

Where’s the part where it helps Trump?

The part where the reality is we have a plurality voting system ("First past the post") in place today.

We supposedly live in a democracy,

We do.

I’m voicing my opinion.

You are.

I'm not saying the rule of law should prevent you from doing what you're doing (I'm not a fan of fascism). However, you're being willfully ignorant if you acknowledge our plurality voting system, but claim your work convincing people not to vote for Biden doesn't also helps Trump become president again.

If the race is neck and neck, and you vote for Micky mouse because you wanna feel superior to everyone around you, all you've done is make things worse.

Depending on your location, you may have directly helped trump.

This may not be as credible as your meme, but CNN points out the “spoiler effects” of third-party candidates. They very rarely even receive a Electoral College vote.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/17/politics/third-parties-elections-what-matters/index.html

you’re talking down to a lot of people

No I'm not.

The vast majority of voters really are that disinterested. Any narrative to muddy the waters more complex than "Trump bad Biden good" will discourage them from voting.

If you're unable to see that then you're too stupid to see you've been manipulated by conservatives.

That’s literally not true.

My past third party votes were not counted towards other candidates and if you’re using the logic that any third party vote takes away from possible Biden votes you may have missed it when I said I would never vote for Joe Biden again.

I will absolutely never vote for Joe Biden again.

Nothing will ever make me willingly cast a ballot for him again. I’d vote third party if it was Biden versus Hitler.

There are people as disgusted with Biden as I am who simply don’t know that there are alternatives aside from the worthless greens, actively harmful libertarians and joke candidates like Afro man and vermin supreme.

A vote for the party for socialism and liberation goes toward a party that shows up at protests, runs local candidates and has a cohesive platform.

The support that vote confers helps them get funding, event presence, ballot presence, media attention and of course public awareness.

If you want better democrats, not psl, voting for psl shows democrats in terms that cannot be deepfaked, covered up or minimized that there are votes they could get if their platform and candidates were closer to those of psl.

If you don’t like Biden and don’t think trump is the end of the world, psl is objectively a better choice for your future.

If you think trump is the end of the world, what are you doing posting about it online? Go prepare to perform political violence.

I agree. Which is why I don’t support Trump.

Why is your reading comprehension poor?