"I would never bully someone for being autistic!"

"And I would never bully someone for being autistic"

"or react like you didnt even try"

tbh, they are often in the same boat with autistic people. normies are allowed to be offended and not be able to make the connection to autism.

they should practice kindness but so should the rest of us.

“I’m actually really strange”

“You don’t seem strange”

“Well I am, and I’m asking for your understanding with this”

“What is there to understand? You seem like a normal guy to me!”

“This is our first day meeting one another”

"you could talk to service workers if you wanted to, you just think you're better than them"

As a service worker, don't talk to me any more than you have to

(edit): Felt the need to elaborate on this. It's not that I resent having to talk to you or anything, it's that we're human too and we're prone to the same anxieties our customers are. Some of us are social butterflies, but for me it gets exhausting after a while, so it's annoying when people talk to me about things that aren't related to how I can help them. It's hard enough for me to converse with people I'm actually friends with!

There's nothing you can throw at me that I won't be able to help you with, so don't be scared to come to me. But unless you're telling me you like my hair or my outfit or something, I'd rather jump straight into helping you with what you need.

Well, that and the weird obsession with autocracy because they can't admit that their folk heroes might have actually just been assholes who did more to harm leftist movements than any western opposition ever did.

People are fake. A lot of online spaces outside of spots like Facebook (which is Gen X/boomer territory) are more so left leaning, so a lot of people tend to spout what they think is popular. Some might believe it but won't put any efforts into practicing those beliefs, while others just simply don't believe what they're sharing.

Pride month is a good example of this. As soon as the months over most people who were spamming their socials with all sorts of LGBT support messages could care less.

And don't you dare tell a vegan you can't drink anything with plant milk!

Personality type that can hear the bubbles in a open soda can across the room making a fucking racket

It realy depends which places you are. I personaly really prefer Anarchist/Punk spaces. (I am obviously a Anarcho-(Solar)punk myself) and I have better experience there than else where. I still run sometimes in difficulties but most go quickly a way by explaining my position as an Aspie. And ask them to explain why they think this is true. Tbh I don't know much how it is in auth left spaces (it is suposed to be worse not only for neurodivers people) but tankies can fuck of anyway.

For that kind of thing I blame the cultural fact that today’s leftism is based on finding people to hate.

They pride themselves in not hating groups, but they do spend about 93% of their mental/social/political efforts in identifying people who need punishment.

Idk what kind of left wing spaces yall find. Maybe if everyone didn't think hexbear was the boogeyman they'd realize how accepting they are

Sadly we love hierarchy dominance just about as much as we hate how much it makes us look like apes.

Teachers and school administrators almost always side with bullies. They can't help themselves.

While I agree that we should avoid bullying rather than just avoiding bullying specific groups, this might go too far. We should just make a whitelist of people who you can bully, like Republicans or people who watch reality television.

That sounds tough. I once knew someone who had a medical issue with severe dietary restrictions like you, and a tone deaf coworker was like “haha at least you can lose weight, sounds great!” FFS

I'm really sorry, I had colitis and it was awful. I really hope you find some relief from it.

Some friendly advise. A neurodivergent partner can be great but you can never assume they will be similar to you in the same setting. Coping mechanisms can be opposites and what is comfortable for you may be stressful for them.

Me and my partner are both on the spectrum and i wouldn’t have it any other way but its common for at least one of us to deal with something at any given time (so there are few true breaks from stress) and at worst our challenges can amplify eachother.

In the end everyone is unique so maintain an open mind when dating and try not tp judge all neurotypicals the same way.

Maybe I'm autistic because that sounds fucking awesome. Fuck small talk. I just like existing by people I care about.

I do believe that is the point of the post; however, it also implies that the kind of person it describes does not understand that they are actually engaging in bullying behaviours.

Ableism is so entrenched in society that "teasing" (thought of as playful, but is actually harmful) people for being a little different is not seen as anything to bat an eye at. Media upholds the normalization of this kind of ableism through shaming these traits in the form of "jokes" — meaning that when people in turn do it to others, they often believe themselves to be engaging in funny banter. When it is actually creating an environment that others autistic and neurodivergent people. Ie, upholding systemic ableism. All without their knowledge.

The point of a post such as this is partially for autistic people to commiserate, but also hopefully for a few people to stop and think about their own behaviour. If they are the kind of person who wishes to be inclusive to autistic people, seeing this might make them realize how they do unconsciously bully autistic people when they denigrate people with these traits. And hopefully they will stop, though it takes time to deconstruct and unlearn this kind of behaviour.

But what will they signal then?? That they're just nice and make people around them feel included??? /s

Positive according to whom? What’s positive for you may be destructive for me.

Which ones of these are bad behavior?

As a father who either has to prepare the same meals over and over, or else make two separate meals, I do not share your positive outlook

Thank you friend, from an autistic person with food issues.

I'm autistic and the opposite of a picky eater. That being said, when introducing people to new food you have to be extremely patient with them. A lot of things look, feel, and smell different that what most people are used to

ASD with contamination OCD here. I hate mushrooms, but strangely enough, love tempah. That's basically soy curds glued together with edible mold.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Brains are weird.

Well, then you shouldn't eat any plants and after that anything else, because plants feed of rotten things (soil) and everything (including us) eats plants.

The key word here is "bully". It's also a tricky word because the line where bullying starts is often blurry. There's a context-dependent spectrum of gray that makes up the difference between bullying and calling someone out on assholeish behaviour. I think you're right that absolutist poisons don't work here.

My reading of the initial post was somewhat different than yours. I imagined the person saying "I would never bully someone for being autistic" as someone who believes themselves to be a Good Person(TM), despite engaging in bullying behaviours. My brain went there because I've known people like that. Maybe they would refrain from bullying someone who they knew as being autistic, but if they take that approach, they're going to inadvertently bully a heckton of autistic people for their autistic traits, just because they don't know they're autistic. I don't think that's okay.

I interpreted the original post as advocating for being more tolerant regardless of labels or identities, because often, we don't know the full context behind a behaviour. A complement to this is that being autistic doesn't exempt you from being an asshole. I want to be called out for shitty behaviour, but I don't want to be bullied.

I feel like I'm articulating my point badly, but something that's underlying this entire comment is a book I read a while back named "Racism without racists". It looks at racism as a product of the system, and how neutral or even good people can be a part of perpetuating it. Acknowledging this is a necessary and often uncomfortable step towards dismantling unjust systems and it doesn't mean that people are Bad People(TM). When people feel attacked and perceive "the system that we are a part of and that some of us benefit from is structurally racist" as being an accusation of "you are racist", it leads to them becoming defensive and refusing to acknowledge the address of the broken system.

I think ableism functions in a similar way. Society is ableist on so many levels, but I've found discussing this to be difficult when I have to walk on eggshells to avoid people becoming offended as if I have accused them of being ableist (even if I haven't used that word at all and am focussing on constructive discussions about way forwards). It feels hypocritical when people consider themselves an ally, but then have the audacity to take a basic access request like "please don't label the event as wheelchair accessible if it isn't" and make it about them, becoming outraged. My take on the original post is that it's directed at this kind of hypocrisy.

Is it not okay to call a politician an idiot or an asshole for doing something you don't like?

It's pretty fair to call a powerful individual an asshole if they're using the unequal power dynamic to fuck up peoples' lives. It's not even a comparison because you're presenting a disability as an excuse to ignore "wrong" behaviour, rather than reconsidering what behaviour is "wrong" in the first place. And when you identify a "wrong" behaviour, consider why bullying would be the "moral" thing to do.

Sure, someone with severe NPD being narcissistic and always feeling like the victim is about as given as someone with a severe motor function deficit not being able to function at certain tasks, and you can get really philosophical about how humans are deterministic, fault doesn't exist, and free will is an illusion, but... most people are obviously gonna feel a lot more lack of sympathy towards the person with NPD just on the basis of how intentional people feel it to be. People feel a lot more upset when they feel targetted by something. People are homophobic and bully people expressing "abnormal" characteristics because, to them, it's an attack on their culture norms. People bully those with NPD because they see it as an attack on basic morality or as a danger to others. People bully boys who express certain "weak" emotions because it's an attack on the traditional patriarchal idea of masculinity.

It is society's job to make sure that people who do "wrong" get help to better themselves and society. Whether to think if insults or bullying will have do good in the context is hard to tell for yourself.

Personally, I will often insult someone on the alt-right. Not because I think they intentionally turned out that way, and not because I think they as a human being deserve suffering, but because I want to send a message that their beliefs are wrong and unwelcome. I want them to associate their beliefs with "fringe" and "unscientific" so they don't feel comfortable spreading hate in public. Possibly it pushes those people to radicalize more, but it's hard to argue that it isn't effective at making most of them reluctant to spread conservative views in public and it makes quite a few of them eventually start to question their own views.

What if they have a condition that makes them behave in a way that you call idiotic or assholeish?

Insults are inherently irrational, using derogatory terms is never rational. There is no clear and objective way to determine if an insult is "justified", because justification and logical thinking is subjective. When using insults, it's important to consider the goal and results of the insult. Why are you calling a person an idiot? Is it because they're acting in a way which you find "weird" or "annoying" or even "aggressive", and you want to feel better about yourself or harm them emotionally?

In your example, the perspective is that a person holds power over others and is using it to cause harm in one way or another, and it's felt that the person doing it is in control of their actions, so even knowing that an insult will bring no improvements they just feel an emotional pressure to vent.

That's a scenario where it becomes obvious that justification is subjective and, even if it were reasonable to decide it's unintentional, some people just feel helpless or angry and want to take out their frustration on the person they feel is doing the actions.

You use bullying when you want to achieve something. Self-satisfaction, emotional manipulation, emotional abuse, fitting in with others, whatever. Bullying is a tool to try to shift power, to bring someone else down, whether it's to "level the playing field" more or to put someone below you.

So what goal do you have when you call someone who's stimming or fidgeting or breaking down crying a derogatory name? What goal do you have when you call a child an asshole for refusing to eat a certain food? What goal do you have when you have when you call a politician an idiot?

Are you trying to emotionally abuse them into acting a certain way? Are you trying to gain self-satisfaction/relief and express your frustration at their cost? Are you trying to change other peoples' perceptions of the person? Are you just trying to hurt / punish them with no end goal because you feel they deserve it since you got stressed by their behaviour?

It's ignorant to for intent to be the default assumption. Always assume that someone could be different from you and that they may not be at fault for something you don't like. Then consider things you wouldn't do if they happened to have some sort of difference from you. That's the basic idea of treating others with sensitivity. If you think a person has certain harmful beliefs or does certain harmful actions, would you treat them differently if they had ASD or dysthemia or NPD?

Treat anyone the same way you would treat them if they were neurodiverse. Your opinion of them shouldn't generally change if you were to someday know that they had ASD or something. That's an important way to stave off unjustified biases and treatments towards disadvantaged peoples.

A child refusing to even try to eat something their parent worked so hard to make could be considered assholeish behavior,

I mean if you're down with blaming the children for being whatever you think of as misbehaved... I think "kids are assholes" is a funny phrase but unjokingly pinning the fault on the kid for their behaviour as if they choose to be reluctant to eat and calling them an asshole is a whole nother level of unempathetic. Kids are not rational and shouldn't be bullied.

are we to assume it's because they have autism and thus never call them out on it?

Generally if children (or pets) refuse to eat it's because there's something causing them to, maybe it's stress or emotional trauma, or maybe it's sensitivities caused by a disorder, or maybe it's an underlying illness like ulcers or cancer, or maybe it's because they have a certain biological reaction to the food, or maybe literally anything else. The mere idea of "calling out" a child in the first place is dumb, as if they're to blame for what foods do or do not repulse them or what causes them stress.

What do you is be a good parent and support your child, helping them get through the obstacles they were given. Not get upset at them, subconsciously blame them, and then be surprised when that sort of attitude towards them emotionally pushes them away or traumatizes them. Which is a typical experience for people with Autism and ADHD because most people, and most parents, default to assigning fault to the person they associate with issues, and raise their child thinking of them as a burden.

This isn't all to say I'm above all these heathens and I don't make fun of people. But usually I try to treat everyone as if they're potentially neurodivergent unless I have a reason not to. So when I do insult someone, whether or not they have Autism or Bipolar would not matter much to my insult.

Ableism is caused by not having a disability is treated as the default, like how white racism is white being treated as the default, and how homophobia is straightness being treated as the default, and ...

Imo it doesn't matter much whether that behaviour is caused by some recognized condition or is just their personality. Someone could have texture related issues with eating certain food and not be autistic, doesn't make them an asshole for not wanting to eat it (not to mention that almost no one likes all food). In the end we're all mainly a product of our genetics and environment, and the specifics of what people should and shouldn't be considered responsible for is a whole philosophical argument in itself.

You can criticize people for their behaviour regardless, as the other commenter said there's a difference between criticism and bullying. And I don't think "I'm autistic" is any better or worse a reason than "I just don't like it" (using that loosely here, could include the whole range of extreme responses like vomiting). Because autism here in the end is just a label saying "congrats, you have a recognized reason to not like it". There's no way to know what precisely is going on in someone elses head regardless.

Damn, all she needed to realize was that one’s own needs are all the reason they need for a breakup.

Glad she finally got the job done though. And I hope you’re okay too.

She’s probably one of the rare un-wealthy lizard people. They get really sensitive when you talk about rich lizard people.

thats the joke tho

That is true and fair, and the fact that plenty of these issues come from ignorance is good enough for me to think that not everyone that the post is calling out is some sort of irredeemable moral failing. Though that only goes as far as the people involved are willing to listen and understand that on the best of days, atypical, innocuous behavior isn't something you should be mocking, that you only have the impulse to do so because your monkey brain wants to punch someone down the social hierarchy ladder and that's pretty fucking dumb; and on the worst of days, it's yet another contributing factor to complete social alienation and internalized shame for autistic people.

Is it this one? I never saw it, but I googled "fork meme" and this was a likely candidate.

With how frequently I see hypocrisy I'm beginning to hypothesize the neurotypicals aren't good at, at-least, that kind of logical consistency.

What you’re describing is something like “racism blindness”.

“Colorblind” means that you, yourself, don’t take a person’s race into account when judging them.

It does not mean you don’t see racism happening to them. That’s not what the blind part is being blind to.

It's literally just a regular term to refer to a group of people, this has similar vibes to me as freaking out that your kids got a lesson on pronouns in English class

I use that word...

So, I have to give you my medical diagnosis about personal mental health issues before you respect me enough to not make fun of me?

If it's okay for an autistic person to have these traits, why can't someone else? This kind of mindset is what makes the world so inherently hostile to autistic people. Even if you don't shame people whom you know to have autism for these traits, you are still communicating to them that you think these traits are bad when you shame others for having them.

And why are these traits "bad?" None of these really affect anyone but the person who has them. Picky eating limits the person's own choices, not your own. Their lack of understanding of humor or sarcasm isolates them socially from others, not you. It's not a reflection on the quality of your joke. Their awkwardness hurts themself significantly more than it can possibly hurt you. Not wanting to be touched is a basic personal boundary that should be respected no matter whose boundary it is. Fidgeting is a harmless motion. Most of what we shame for being "cringey" interests are rooted in misogyny anyway, and others' interests do not harm you in any way. Meltdowns are something that anyone can experience, if pushed to the brink. Autistic people just happen to have more sensitivities, and also to live in a world that is actively hostile to them. Of course they will be pushed to the brink more often.

It can be hard to unlearn ableism. And I hope you're able to read these words with an open mind and take the time to introspect on why you hold the beliefs that you have expressed here, and try to understand the harm that they cause to autistic people. It's especially harmful to express them here — as I'm glad that you noticed, and walked back — but I wanted to also address you in a more general way, because I believe that this sentiment would have been harmful even if you had expressed it on 196 (where you stated that you originally thought you were.)

So if someone doesn't have a document signed by a doctor stating that they are, in fact, different than the norm, you can be an asshole to them for being different from the norm? Go fuck yourself.

Or you could just not be an asshole? Because autism has nothing to do with it and this just makes you an asshole regardless of the situation.

Do you know what group you're in, dickhead? Kindly fuck off.

I'll up vote. Dw

You know, I don't really agree with this, but I appreciate you saying it. We need more people just coming out and saying what they think, rather than clamming up because their opinions are now unpopular but then continuing to act/bully the same behind the scenes. Bluntness is a virtue in my world, because I can actually parse what you say this way lmao

Nothing you said was out of line. It's an important skill to be able to laugh at yourself. It's also an important skill to not make fun of someone after they have let you know there is a good reason that you shouldn't. I'm autistic myself and the energy of this comment section is making me strongly consider blocking this community and moving on.

Oh ur bullied?

So is everyone else. Stop using your autism as an excuse maybe?