They're afraid!

Hmm, seems an American problem needed an American solution

I'm starting to think the whole "Violence is never the answer" is just yet another propaganda piece of the rich
- Basically every large successful social change has been built on violence or the threat of it. King might have been a nice speaker and a friendly face, but violence brought people to the table.
- It is 100%. Max Stirner talked about that in the 1800s.
- I never understood how our country - proudly founded through the uprising of the downtrodden to overthrow their oppressor with violence - could ever honestly think that violence is never the answer. Our national anthem has a stanza specifically dedicated to the rockets and bombs "we the people" used against the British.
- Yes. Yes it is, it has been for years and years. They figured out that if they get us to believe violence is inherently bad and should never be resorted to, then they can safely ignore us. It starts early too, with that complete crock of shit about ignoring bullies making them go away.
  
  Violence should never be the first solution, but the threat of it needs to be there if the first attempt fails, and resorting to violence should happen as soon as it becomes apparent that nonviolent methods are not being regarded in good faith.
- The lemmy.ml in my name for a reason. My realization moment was while I was in the military ironically enough.
- “Violence is never the answer (when it suits the rich)”.
If this action is repeated, expect to see stringent gun control laws in record time.
- I believe the answer will still be 'come and take them', and I don't think Cletus is gonna disagree.
- Republicans love to forget that as governor, Reagan was very pro gun control when black people started arming themselves.
- If they try for this, the applications for concealed permits will plummet.
Lol inspired me to make this:
American elites when they witness second amendment used against them instead of immigrants and queers.
I chucked though this would mean that the American solutions are...short-term? Headlines will fleet, the ruling class will become a little bit more vigilant. And then shit will return to business as usual. Unless this sparks a mass movement.

The reason that insurance companies currently exist is to make money. That's the ONLY reason. Until that changes, the system is likely to get worse, not better.

Unless the public kills one CEO every year or so to keep them in line.
- When these claims are denied there are so many pawns in the system that it is so easy to get really angry at and have easy access to. I'm really Glad that at least this went to the top and no one closer to ground level just having to carry out uhcs terrible policies was the victim of this rage.
- How about one a week?
This, so much. If a CEO makes a conscientious decision that makes stockholders less money, he gets fired. Stockholders sue companies over decisions that are considered less profitable.

And I don't mean people who invest their 401k's in mutual funds bullshit. I mean the activist multi millionaire assholes that own full percentage points of companies. These people are the ones that lobby companies and politicians and shape the legal and market landscape.

These fucking people have zero accountability to anyone.

And they convince themselves they have every right to be that way.
- I mean the activist multi millionaire assholes that own full percentage points of companies. These people are the ones that lobby companies and politicians and shape the legal and market landscape.
  
  aka The Big Club
  
  (NSFW - language)
Essentially they exist to make the cost of the risk they agree to bear reasonable and affordable to their customers.

The second they fail to serve that purpose they become useless.

Their very existence depends on the same thing that has made them into the shitstains they are: Greed.

Wish this happened three weeks ago when my wife's chemo dosage approval got held up.

I guess the lesson is to shoot early and shoot often.

Apply again. Terms may have changed
- It actually finally went through and she had her infusion on Wednesday at an Optum facility, quite coincidentally.

It so so damn American to try to fix healthcare with gun violence

~~Soap Box~~
~~Ballot Box~~
Ammo Box < we have arrived at this point
- Idk why anyone is surprised by the outcome of one political party fighting so hard for the ammo box while gutting the other boxes. Like what did they expect?
Hey man we tried to get them banned and shit, they said no so I guess we gotta do it their way
Wait until you get a $50,000 health insurance bill for non-existent procedures that the doctor and insurance company made up and no one will believe your side of the story.
Nah man. It’s pretty revolutionary. Which is pretty not American.
- It used to be
The French have a long history of politically motivated violence
- No, they have sharp history
That's literally what the second amendment is about.

The idea isn't necessarily to overthrow the military with a coup. It's to make those in power afraid to piss off enough people that they can't walk down the street without some random person with a gun going after them.

So... The murder of a CEO of a horrible company leads to better conditions for everyone?

I would probably break a ton of rules on lemmy to suggest any further actions based on this result, so I'm not going to.

^But, you know...^

Unfortunately I'm afraid this will only be a very short term gain for society. In the longer term CEO-s will just muscle-up. They'll hire a whole bunch more security and bodyguards, armored vehicles, taller, concrete fences around their properties and show their faces even less in public. All on company expense, so from our, their consumers' money of course. They will become even more isolated, secluded and cut off from society, more paranoid and resentful about the rest of us, mere 'plebs'.

I'm not saying I don't understand why people are celebrating. But I don't think that this murder will help steer back society, inequality and corporate greed into a healthier, better direction. Instead it is just another step along the path to the dystopian future shown in so-so many sci-fi literature and movies. Where 99% of society has been delegated to a complete slave-like status, with ZERO financial security, self-determination, healthcare access and freedom while they spend day and night labouring endlessly, just to not starve or freeze to death. Which they still might, if they get in an accident or an illness which bankrupts them.

Meanwhile the 1% will reap ALL the benefits from the work of all the rest of us and they'll live like no king has ever lived before. Possibly their lifes extended to hundreds of years, flying around the planet between their mansions from party to party.

Murdering one or two CEO-s will not prevent this future I think. We will need a much, much wider show of rejection of this future if we want to stop it. We will need protests, demonstrations and show of unity. The rich will try to prevent this in every possible way. They will call the protesters terrorists, fundamentalists. Police will treat them as criminals and jail or even kill many of them. But if the society-wide rejection of this dystopian future is not shown in full force, it WILL HAPPEN.
- Drones are cheap and no security is defending against explosives falling on people.
- Unfortunately I’m afraid this will only be a very short term gain for society. In the longer term CEO-s will just muscle-up. They’ll hire a whole bunch more security and bodyguards, armored vehicles, taller, concrete fences around their properties and show their faces even less in public. All on company expense, so from our, their consumers’ money of course. They will become even more isolated, secluded and cut off from society, more paranoid and resentful about the rest of us, mere ‘plebs’.
  
  All of their security needs to be working 100% correctly 100% of the time. Anyone going after them only needs one time with one opening. They can never be safe forever. Maybe it turns into sniper nests, maybe it turns into hacked together hobby drones with bombs.
  
  At the end of the day there is nothing they can do if the 99% rise against them.
- Let them turtle up. It won't save them. This is the fourth turning. And they're on the menu.
- There is a good onion piece on how the media is struggling to find a motive along the permitted divisiveness issues it helps narrate.
  
  This is temporary. Surely the pro hamas antifa climate alarmist radical left will need to a harsher crack down, or Iran will win. They hate our freedom of having "the best healthcare in the world", and the great innovation leader that UNH is for technology/AI advancement in cutting "wasteful" cost. We cannot let radical communists interfere in "America's greatness"
- I will call them sansculotte.

Why so scared guys? I thought motive was unclear.

Goddammit, how do I give you Lemmy Gold?
- There you go
- If there was a way to make a Lemmy gold that is basically a donate for the instance the user is on that would be pretty cool.
  
  So if someone gets a "gold" it means that the person who gave it donated to the instance that person is on, or the instance the giver was on

Are we expected to believe that this is actually happening?

Really...this has /ThatHppened all over it

I know folks don't want to hear this, but this anecdote is quite dubious. Big companies don't move that quickly, especially in a business as complicated as health insurance. There are various plan levels and many individualized, specifically, for certain employers, as well as many elective medications (wegovy anyone?) for this to have been done in a couple of days. There's no way these CEOs and executives said to just blanket approve all prescriptions. They would just pay a substantial amount for personal security, with company money, while maintaining their profits.

Yea no way that's true. I mean I wish it was but these greedy fucks aren't gonna stop being greedy.

They could be more cooperative for a couple of weeks while this story dies out, if people forget, they will increase the denies even more the recuperate the missed revenue.
It could be a calculated loss strategy that buys them good optics.

While this story is in the news cycle people have the opportunity to build positive bias by having their claims approved for a few days.

Edit: Not to say that it is true at all, but it would be a valid strategy for them for a week or so

I'm happy that there was a change for these folks. There is not doubt about that. As someone that just sort of lived without insurance for a big portion of my life, and I still don't have a doctor/gp, and have had problems with doctors and specialists cancelling on me after ER visits I am really confused what to think.

I've got to rethink all of this violence as an option to stop the rich from playing fuck fuck. it still feels gross that CEO had to be murdered to create change. But I am happy if this post is working with facts of people getting access to medicine and healthier life experiences.

Was there ever a big societal change for the better without blood?

You know, kinda like our genetic cousins murdering the greedy guy who hogs all the bananas.
- The collapse of the German Democratic Republic was peaceful.

This is just trying to adapt to stay alive (the industry, not the people) when they really should be utterly destroyed in favor of single payer healthcare. Don't let up because they're behaving like they have a gun pointed at their corporate person and promising the holder anything to keep making billions.

That's how it works.

Usually the quote is about all political power coming from the end of a rifle, but I guess this time it was a pistol.

The quote I've always heard is "Change comes through the barrel of a gun" so it still works with a pistol.
- Especially if you stuff pennies down the barrel
- "Power comes from the end of a rifle" is the version that I've heard that comes to mind. But the point stands, it's a metaphor, and the metaphor is about when the use of violence is acceptable, not what type of violence is used.
  
  And I suppose pistols are rifled.

Regardless of stance on assassinations, very big positives can come from this event.

Congress/GOP is less likely to eliminate medicare, and the insurance sector is behaving in "self regulation" the GOP says all companies can do.

Someone do the math on how long it takes before an other one needs to be taken down a peg again for the insurance to keep doing their job.

Tricky with just one data point. If we assume the rate of denials has dropped to zero (from a previous poster, again just a single data point), and that in time that rate will pick up again, we'll need to know what effect the next murder has, if the rate again drops to zero or hovers somewhere above it, then we should be able to come up with a reasonable estimate of how many denials a CEO is worth. The rate at which denials picks up again will in any case give a good initial estimate of that with no second murder needed, but more data will lead to greater accuracy.

It's very symptomatic of how blatantly immoral and disgusting capitalism is: The only time capitalists will stop gouging themselves with money directly from other people's suffering is when they fear for their own lives. You, they'll happily let die for profit otherwise.

This will last a week and go back to deny, delay depose!

@NastyNative
Then we better shoot another CEO when they start that bullshit again

I call it success

It's certainly encouraging.

Hold on, anybody got the sauce? Can anyone confirm this kind of thing is happening?

Capitalists will only behave if they're afraid or if it's profitable. The latter is rarely the case.

is this related to the British storm that I've heard from network rail about?

Perfect timing - I have a prescription to pick up at Safeway tomorrow.

Everyone commenting is just having fun, right? There is no one who actually believes this, I hope.