There’s not a thing wrong with wanting a traditional family and traditional gender role life. A lot of people want that and life doesn’t have to be super complicated to be rewarding.
When you start spending all your time on the internet making monetized content about it and deliberately choosing to engage with the absolute worst people on the internet is where it becomes a suspect thing where the behavior doesn’t match the stated goal
It really annoys me how creepy misogynist awful people think they get to represent the traditional family.
I have a super traditional looking family. Stay at home mom and everything. But it is sick and disgusting to act like having a setup you enjoy means it’s the only valid one. You see, we care more about raising a decent and happy person than indoctrinating them into some belief system that focuses on who our enemies are.
Rejecting loving families because they look different than traditional does not make you the representatives of traditional, fucknuts.
Hey, are you accusing me of being a bad person because I run a Mormon parenting vlog while my kids are malnourished and escaping and running for help?!
I'm not Ruby Franke or Jodi Hildebrandt. I don't know why you'd think that. Stop asking.
This - while I'd argue that feeding raw milk to children, for instance, is probably in violation of local statutes in most of the US, the overall premise isn't necessarily invalid - the idea of forcing it on others and packaging/selling it as an influencer is what's flawed.
My wife and I have a carefully negotiated relationship that is nowhere near tradwife, but not necessarily contemporary traditional either. I ended up in the hospital recently, and all that went out the window - she spoke for me, signed various forms of consent on my behalf, and the like as/when necessary.
The "tradwife" package seems to ignore that such moments will be necessary in any life, especially one with kids involved, and certainly any life that involves the risks of e.g., farm work. People get hurt and need consent for treatment, folks get sick and need to handle business over the phone but are unable to speak on their own behalf because they're sick, etc.
From where I sit, anything resembling what the tradwife influencers are selling is completely invalid/impractical without an 'escape hatch' allowing the (generally) submissive spouse to take the reins as an when necessary and of their own volition... along with ensuring that said spouse has a functional understanding of how and when to do so, per the laws of their particular state.
Without that, you're just playing a damned risky game that has a realistic chance of causing serious injury to one or more involved parties in the medium term.
There is something wrong with a traditional gender role life. Traditional gender roles are misogynist. Now, sure, a grown woman can consent to a BSDM lifestyle with her husband, that's fine. But you do not involve your kids in that shit.
Traditional gender roles are bondage. They are. And if you have a relationship that practices BDSM as a lifestyle, you need to follow modern consent practices. Conservatives want to talk about kink at pride? Grooming children? That's what this is. This is grooming. This is exposing children to your fetish and telling them it's the lord's plan for them.
There is something wrong with a traditional gender role life.
No there isn’t.
If a queer person is empowered to tell a conservative that “listen I’m gonna need you to STFU about my lifestyle choices, there’s not a thing wrong with them if that’s what I have decided to do” - which is 100% fair - then any person who feels that traditional gender roles suit them fine needs to be empowered to make the same STFU statement to anyone who’s somehow decided that they get to make the same determination on behalf of someone who just wants a family and kids and a farm somewhere, because they’ve decided that’s what will make them happy.
Misogyny is misogyny. “Normal” gender roles are different. Maybe the issue is a difference of definitions; there’s a certain amount of spousal abuse and authoritarianism that got written down as “traditional” by the ones that like to practice it. If that’s what you’re talking about or what you thought I meant by “traditional,” I will be fully in agreement with you that it’s fucked. What I am talking about is something different though.
I was a tiny bit on board with your point, except for the part where you argue against self-determination and self-actualization. Moreover, I followed this thread, and you're not only arguing in bad faith, you are moving the goalposts. Be better.
You might have had a point if you weren't so hyperbolic about it...
I mean I'm cishet, but I kind of see your point, especially when kids are involved. Some specialisation of parental roles is fine ofc, but then some parents fall into pretty toxic, patriarchal roles, just because that's how they were raised.
I'm talking like the woman taking on virtually all childcare and household labour and logistics (even when working), in such a way that they're contributing much more into the relationship than their partner.
If tradlife were so awesome there wouldn’t be so many painfully aggressive instasmiles in the pics.
Every time I read about these people I can't help but think 'this sounds like a fetish.'
Idk if it were a fetish, I'd be seriously into it... Sort of. Denying your wife an epidural? You are no longer in a dom/sub relationship because you just broke consent. You force your wife to become pregnant before she's ready? That's rape. Dictating that she does all the chores, child rearing, dinner, family shit while you just make money? That's lazy and greedy.
Like all these types are living in the country, super model attractive, clearly pandering to conservatives. Like shit, the idea of having 6 kids? I think that's fun, especially if they are spaced just a bit apart, and plenty of living space. Sure, you get to spend less time with each kid individually, but then you get to watch each one turn into their own person, and hopefully you've given them enough energy that they will live a good life later.
It's a fantasy pandering to conservatives that it can be "real." Since they are influencers? It's automatically not real.
Unfortunately not every relationship is safe, sane, and consensual. 😞
Well, numbers are power, and if you are not a fan of power, then kids are treasure and happiness and joy.
But! People working their ass out to grow 6 kids (I'm not even talking about money, just about watching them not to kill themselves) won't look like this. It won't be easy. It won't be glossy.
And, of course, in a normal traditional family the husband would be just as overloaded. Weekends, bitch? Nah, go fix every shit that broke, especially things that your wife needs to do her part.
What's wrong with that? They do the same thing with their cows to get their raw milk going. She's just another cow to him.
It is, free use is a thing this is just free use with bullshit rules made a couple thousand years ago by a cult of incel dudes.
Of course it's a fetish. I too have a fetish of living somewhere wet, green, with trees and stones around and stone+wood construction, with a bit of the traditional lifestyle in that general area. I mean, without the bad parts (sign language there is called "bride's language" cause a bride wasn't supposed to utter a word 3 months after marriage in olden days).
The fetish is about woods, mountains, silence and freedom.
The problem with these people is that they are trying to show some "perfect" life, the way everybody expects "perfect" (in their own opinion) workflow in computer stuff, "perfect" bodies in porn, "perfect" politicians (cancel culture is bad not cause rape\racism\theft is good, it's bad because figures carefully prepared to not even raise suspicions come on top, and these are usually not the most moral ones, just those with better advisors), "perfect" partners (you know these people who do lots of clubbing and dating and all even speak in the same voices in similar situations ; you divert from their ritual, they go anxious ; you say "ADHD", they say other people don't need to know that ; you have a hiding-from-society day when they want to go out, they feel badly hurt), "perfect" communication (one my friend has read somewhere that he has personal borders, but somehow missed that others have them too and saying "fuck off" to him is not violating his, while threatening to punch that other person is a violation), and so on.
OK, wrote too much. I just hate that glossy shit around us.
Which of the kids is the wife?
Yes
What was the thing that was shared a couple days ago?
Nature wants 5/7 of your kids to make it and for you to die at 50 or something...
So people who want to live a traditional life are ok with that or they still want the benefits of society while not participating in it?
In typical USA society, precarious access to healthcare due to exorbitant prices certainly helps keep the average population age down.
Only for the poors. While the rich grow ever older and more dirty.
Nature doesn’t want anything. It’s not a person. It’s not even a thing. It’s just an idea.
You dropped that
Having kids and drinking milk all day sounds like my idea of hell, actually. I'm terrible with kids and my lactose intolerant bowels are protesting in advance..
Being forced to drink raw milk all day is part of an ancient execution method designed to kill you with your own diarrhea soaking you until you rot alive.
Unfortunately, this is true but they'll also mix it with honey and pour it on you as well. Bugs and rats will then start to eat you alive along with the bacteria. It's called Scaphism.
What's so good about raw milk, I've seen Yanks mention it a bunch of times
They thinks it's better for you or something because it's not processed. It's actually worse, can make you really sick if you get unlucky
It’s actually worse, can make you really sick if you get unlucky
The part that gets me is this...
You can get salmonella from unpasteurized milk. This happens a lot...especially considering America pasteurizes the majority of its milk...but when you hear of a milk-related outbreak a lot of the time it's from unpasteurized milk even though percent wise it's a small portion of our milk supply.
Anyway. A healthy adult might get through salmonella ok. BUT. Salmonella can completely fuck up a 3 year old's kidneys FOR LIFE. And it can be just as bad for the elderly.
These are both groups that have other people providing their food. If a 3 year old or child is given milk by mom and dad...well, they drink it. They have no choice in whether it's pasteurized or not. That's why government regulation of milk steps in, to make sure dumb people having babies don't harm their kids through their poor choices.
Giving unpasteurized milk to kids is similar to anti-vaxxers not vaccinating their kids. Basically, the parent involved has gone haywire over any smaller/imagined detriment or benefit, and chooses the action that could bring the MOST harm while thinking they are taking the route of least harm.
With raw milk, parents think the "nutrients" are better or something (even though...you know...we cook most of our food so MOST of our food is heat treated), and the food poisoning from possible salmonella minor/non-existent, when reality the nutrient profile isn't much different between pasteurized/unpasteurized milk, but the salmonella can kill the vulnerable or cripple their organs for life.
It all comes down to people being alive now in an era where we no longer have elders/grandparents telling others about how people used to DIE from these things.
People hear about getting cancer or dementia or whatever all the time, but haven't actually seen the old-school childhood illnesses from tainted milk or viruses or the like, so people make the wrong choice because it's not apparent from their own life experience how bad those illnesses were since they don't have family that talks about people they knew who got sick and died. The science is too abstract for them to internalize, but "choosing your own food" feels good and feels like you're in control...so people go down that route instead because they haven't seen the consequences of salmonella in their own family or in their friends (because there's a lot of barriers in places, including pasteurization of milk, to try to stop/prevent outbreaks.)
Raw milk is one of the leading ways of getting the new avian flu
Some people get crazy about it.
The US in general had some way worse listeria outbreaks than Europe did in the window where pasteurization laws were first becoming things anyone was considering, so we start from a much more "your milk will be made safe" place.As a result, raw milk, while still uncommon, can be sold in stores or other "normal" retail settings in most of Europe, and it's probably what will be used for cheese manufacturing.
In the US, it's only available via stores that sell it exclusively via club membership, and you might get raided by the USDA if they suspect you're trying to skirt the rules about membership. (Some stores have done hourly membership that comes with a free gallon of milk). Milk must also be pasteurized before being used for cheese, which creates a market for black market cheeses that can't be made with pasteurized milk but aren't cost effective to import past the various taxes we put on luxury cheese.As a result most Americans are either far more wary of raw milk, because our laws were written before modern milking practices reduced sanitary concerns to what we accept for meat, or they develop a persecution complex and ascribe it quasi-magical powers, ironically often getting it from places that don't follow the sanitary practices that render it likely benign.
The thing to keep in mind when you compare the saga of turn of the century milk production between Europe and the US/Canada is the immigrant population. There just wasn't a market for milk in the urban setting in Europe because everyone knew it was deadly since the Roman times.
Compare that to New York, where they had a large influx of immigrants from small farming communities where children would often drink milk when young and they would buy milk that was sold out of unrefrigerated wagons coming from cows kept in confined spaces within the city. It was murderous, with tens of thousands of children's deaths in New York City alone. Of course this was the age of Cholera so the lives of people in cities came cheap.
The plain truth was adding formalin, which has no safe dose itself, was safer than drinking that shit the way they were selling it. North American cities quickly banned unpasteurized milk once the causal relationship was proven (despite the milkmen complaining).
It's really good if you want to catch an infection. My father in law had cows, would always boil the milk before consuming it because he didn't want to get sick.
It's what you want for cheese and butter making. Other than that, it's probably a reason there was a fair bit of kids that died before pasteurization.
When I was a kid, we still had milk cows so I probably dodged a bullet, and it wasn't that my parents were some back-to-the-earth whackos, it was just Canadian rural life in the 70s. I do remember milk tasting better then though.
I grew up milking cows and drinking raw milk as well. The reason we didn't get sick was because of the basic quality control we did as routine. In order for the pathogens to cause illness it needs three things: innoculum, time to grow and the right temperature to grow at.
The milk was immediately put into the fridge when we brought it in. It stayed in the fridge until it was used.
When you have 1-2 gallons coming into the house every day, you use a lot of milk and use it constantly. You don't put a gallon in the fridge and drink over 2-3 weeks. You have to consume, process or dump it because the fridge only holds so much and you only have so many jugs. We made butter and cheese every week at least. No gallon lasted in the fridge more than 5-6 days. Usually it was used in 2-3 days.
We knew the cow well. When she was sick or had an infection, we dumped the milk. We had to give ours antibiotics for mastitis a few times. We dumped the milk until the antibiotic was out of her system as well.
Any jug that smelled off was dumped. It wasn't a big deal since we had another gallon coming in a few hours.
I think Americans discover their new age esoteric "all natural" phase at the moment.
The marketing is good
From what i remember it tastes really good
There's a similar movement going on in the UK right now
From what I can get from a quick google normal homogenized milk can lead to health problems (but don't get scared its not poison). Instead it's better to drink organic milk that's not homogenized.
And I would say let the farmers drink raw milk, they know the health of their cows best.
Edit: Of course milk should be pasteurised, it's the homogenisation that should be avoided. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogenization_(chemistry)
It can be healthier, if it doesn't make you sick. You gotta be used to it though
So, yes but actually no and it should be avoided for the reasons we have regulations about the sale of milk?
I count seven children. Has she lost track?
the seventh one is from her husbands girlfriend probably.
*other wife.
No, she just didn't want the last one
kitchen table chairs outdoors in the grass is a recipe for a broken chair and a crying kid.
I would be more worried about ants tbh
Maybe don't buy cheap chairs? Humans have had tables and chairs outside for as long as tables and chairs have existed.
the nuclear family and cisheteronormativity have been an absolute disaster for the human race
It's amazing how many of these "trad" people are completely clueless that an isolated nuclear farming family isn't traditional in the slightest.
more like insanely funny but in a cynical way
For real. All of those kids and no commune/village/tribe to help you... Sounds awful.
so the birth was in a hospital then?
Funny if true, but if true possibly also a HIPAA violation. Wouldnt want the doctor to get in trouble, should probably skip any o' them city folk inventions for the next 8 kids just to be safe.
Oof. Please don't make jokes that villainize HIPAA. We have few enough privacy laws, as it is.HIPAA, applied properly, means her husband shouldn't have learned the details of her selected care, without her consent.
Edit: You were saying the same thing. I misunderstood.
What part of what i said villainized HIPAA?
Even if what you said is true, he just has to see the tweet for it to be a violation.
Data disclosure without authorization of the patient is a violation, and that doesn't matter who its disclosed to.
Source I work in medtech, i do yearly trainings on handling patient data, and its unlikely im related to any of them 😅
Edit: to clarify.. we are arguing about the doctor disclosing to the internet that this woman got an epidural, and whether or not that is a potential HIPAA violation right?
