I understand cheating is shitty but it would make a lot more sense for the teacher to make this a teachable moment about cheating, and to promote collaborative solutions, but also checking work you get from others.
A huge part of development is copying code and reusing code from libraries. The important part is that you know how the code you copy works.
If you give cheaters too many chances, the other students will feel betrayed. And I guess rightly so.
It's not uncommon to get mails directly, or later in course evaluation, from students who complain about other students that didn't put in the work. I can only remember few cases where there were names involved. Typically it's some general complaint, but the frustration is obvious.
It sucks when you make an effort but witness other students cheating their way through the class. What are we supposed to tell them when the dishonest behaviour of other students doesn't cause any consequences?
It's University. If you don't know by 18-22 if cheating is bad, despite each class at the beginning of the semester explaining the penalties for cheating, you deserve to get expelled.
Surely these kids knew that cheating is bad before they enrolled in college.
"Teachable moments" are for freshmen. Cheating seniors can get fucked.
On a very related note, I actually earned my CS degree.
As someone who only cheated in one class because the professor was a lazy fuck and assigned 5 hours worth of problems for a 1 hour exam with no regard to whether it was completable, I agree. The whole class cheated, because they had to. We actually all knew the material really well because distributing that material across 20 students was still iffy on time.
He's dead now, the lazy fuck. Fuck you Dr. Aung.
Believe it or not, one of the goals of a good university is to not graduate stupid people who don't know anything.
Keep in mind, it's likely that more people cheated, but the smarter ones changed just enough code to make it look "their own", or actually tested to ensure it'd work, and thus weren't caught. Those 22 caught are very likely the ones that copy-pasted verbatim.
Then the smarter ones fulfilled the task, knowing and understanding the material enough to provide a working solution, rather than paste a non-working one. They may have done less than someone working from scratch but they showed themselves no less competent in the material.
make this a teachable moment
A person's character is built at home. If you're an adult in secondary school and can't figure out not to cheat, better hope you get a warning and understand THAT's the only teachable moment you're going to get.
The prof has neither the time or opportunity to fill in where your up-bringing was incomplete . Uni is the first place we learn that the universe doesn't have a lot of patience for the laggards.
Strongly agree.
I was lucky enough to take a computer science course at my high school almost 20 years ago. The teach straight up we web design was 90% copying and 10% modification. He was a early retiree webmaster switched teacher.
Fast forward to today. System administration. I'm not paid to code. I'm paid to fix problems. So I research and focus on remediation. If there's a script for a fix I'm using it.
I'm super paranoid about copying code to use on a production system though. Whenever I come across a script or code to fix an issue i go through it line by line to ensure I know what it's doing.
Often I'll just take the logic or parts I need and write my own.
That's something you do in the freshmen year. This is a master's program. They should be able to write the tests that catch a cheater themselves and they know better.
My uncle's a uni professor. First assignment last semester was writing a paper specifically using ChatGPT, and seeing how much work you had to do to fact-check it and make an actual paper.
Reminds about recent Linus' rant on LKML.
You copied that function without understanding why it does what it does, and as a result your code IS GARBAGE.
AGAIN.
Yeah, code reuse is a massive problem in the industry. I can't find it now, but I remember a few years back that there was a vulnerability in the (I think ) Intel management engine due to manufacturers reusing example code from the documentation that wasn't secure
Junior/senior level students know the consequences of cheating. Professor catches students cheating. Students face consequences of cheating.
"BuT tEaChAbLe MomEnT!"
The difference between a quality college/University education and a shit one of that the students who should fail get failed.
I work in IT, and it's a similar situation. Bluntly, I Google half of the tickets I touch. I don't really know shit about how things work specifically. I know the generalities, and the structure in which they function. I have the foundation of knowledge to know what to Google, but the fact is, I don't remember crap about how to do just about everything.
There's simply too much to know.
In college, using Google was a sin. IMO, they should teach a class on how to get the results you need from Google because you're not going to remember whatever the subject is when you need to in six years and you come across an issue which requires that knowledge.
it's the fucking capstone for a master's in CS. If they're not able to write their own code, then that's on them.
It is a teachable moment. They learned that if you agree to an honor code, then violate it, you really will be subject to the penalties outlined in that honor code.
Fuck that noise. If the student is stupid enough to fall for that they don't deserve the diploma.
Especially, if they are to lazy to change the tasks. Sure, cheating is bad but it's also bad teaching.
There is no but. Cheating is bad. Period. If you don't like school/uni go work at a Wendy's. In the restaurant or behind the dumpster. I don't care.
They're all fucking wankers and got what they aimed for. Nothing. Turning this around on the prof is the entire fucking problem here. (it's not my fault, you made it possible so I had no other choice but to cheat. It's a bullshit argument. Take some responsibility for your own choices.)
Most people never learn.
Nah, cheating is fine, if used sparingly and under specific, niche circumstances, and in ways that don't harm others. As an example: I was struggling with Calculus. Like basically getting my ass handed to me. I went to all the study sessions, saw the Professor in their office several times, found a math tutor, and fuck me the info just wasn't sticking. I put in legitimate effort and it wasn't working and I wasn't about to let one class shit on years of hard work towards a degree. So: I cheated.
We were allowed your typical little notecard. For the record, this is math. Make that shit open book, dear instructors. I know you all looking up near every formula yourself anyway. I digress. I slapped two notecards together and slapped a third into the fold. I had a very non-traditional schooling as a child so the rules as formulas changed were really getting me and I needed those and other reminders. Long as I had those I was fine. Still only squeaked by with a C.
Cheating in many situations is a very reasonable morally unjustifiable thing to do. If you're not actively fucking over someone that doesn't deserve it, or causing no harm, I honestly see no problem.
Thaaat saaaid, cough Thomas Edison cough, some cheating should be punished.
Even though the school might call that cheating, I don't really think it is.
All of my engineering and math classes were open book, open notes. I got lucky in that all of my professors (except one (fuck you Dr. Aung)) designed exams such that they tested understanding, not memorization.
And here I am, 10 years later, still able to solve most of these problems without looking at a textbook for reference other than tables and formulas, despite not having worked in the field for half that time.
I got a mechanical engineering degree. Two the most useful classes I took were microeconomics and circuits 1.
On the one hand: awww, poor cheater world's smallest violin meme
On the other hand: expulsion from the university for a first offense seems... harsh.
universities take plagiarism very seriously. Friend of mine teaches stage craft (how to make sets, props, costumes, lighting and sound design/planning/execution/engineering)
First semester, first test, easy pass: Someone pokes their head into the class and my friend goes to the door to answer them, stepping outside for like ~30 seconds
comes to mark the papers:
"In a proscenium theater, what is the very front of the stage called?"
Real answer: apron
55% of the student answers: the same made up word that sounded vaguely Portuguese with no hits on Google.
even though it's super dumb and super easy and barely matters at all and is a one word answer to a basic question - the students ended up being investigated by the university and my friend had all his classes audited.
Just wanna say I took a stage craft class as an elective many, many years ago when college was affordable enough to do such things.
We didn't do anything hands on, just learned how stuff works.
It was one of my most favorite classes. I was a beer chugging, skirt chasing, never went to class burnout back then, but I enthusiastically went to that class every time.
Cheating is taken VERY seriously at every decent University. As it should.
Still, cheating to some extent exists everywhere. This just weeds out the real lazy or stupid cheaters. Which is also some kind of quality check, I guess.
To cheat properly, I've has to be a bit clever and shrewd, which is a valuable character trait. Maybe not the most moral one, but real life isn't all moral either. π€·ββοΈ
Sometimes the best and most efficient solutions are created by just cleverly combining the work of others.
On the other hand: expulsion from the university for a first offense seems⦠harsh.
It's a masters program, I have no issue with high level cheaters getting slapped with consequences. When I was in undergrad, first offence was an immediate F in the class, with a second being expulsion. Given the requirements for masters/doctorate (my MIL got both while I was dating my wife), getting an F is probably going to bounce you from the program anyway, so it's not that much difference IMO.
I'm going to allege that such "educational" institutions' focus on "cheating" is harmful and dangerous for their students.
I'm a flight instructor. Students would show up to my class actually afraid to be caught writing things down to refer to them later. They were afraid to be caught using checklists. They would overwhelm themselves trying to commit entire technical manuals to memory. That's not how anything actually works. The FAA prints all these references so pilots can read them. We don't take them away from you when you pass your practical.
Checklist usage in the cockpit is a required skill to pass a practical test. The examiner has to see you using a checklist during the test in order to pass you. Writing things down so you can refer to them later, like flight planning and ATC clearances, also a required skill. Schools make people afraid to do these things.
If you've got a kneeboard that has the tower light gun signal chart printed on it, and you lose the radio and need light gun signals, you're not going to have your license taken away from you if you use that quick reference. Too many students bring that pressure into flight training with them. It's a fun bit of deprogramming to do.
I'm going to allege that such "educational" institutions' focus on "cheating" is harmful and dangerous for their students.
I won't disagree that the overall anti-cheating mentality goes too far, but this example was students literally plagiarizing their first project.
That mentality sounds like instructors aren't properly setting expectations for students. If going over checklists is a required skill, students should be informed regularly that they need to be doing XYZ and should be writing that down. When I was still trying for my CS BS, that was something my profs did regularly. We could bring notes to the final, but you were still expected to write your own code (by hand) on the final.
Nah fuck em
I hope my Uni had this. I have never cheated, but cheaters sometimes have better grades than me.
when a professor does this they're "based" and "brainpilled" but when I pretend to sell crack on the benches outside, all of a sudden the judge claims it's "entrapment" and "illegal" smh....
At this point I'm only hoping to emerge from the other side of the "based" fad although I've never understood what it meant. WTaF is "brain pilled"?
Groovy. Tubular. Fetch.
Here's the real answer for based:
"Based" (corruption of base head - from someone who smokes base - street name for crack cocaine) was popular as an insult in rap / African American circles in the early 00s
Rapper Lil B got called it and decided on a whim to pretend the meaning was changed to mean something positive, started using it in this way, it caught on - mostly through the new York scene and its attendant twitter following
As all slang does in the last ~100-150 years, passed from black people to everyone.
Brain pilled is a reference to The Matrix f/t Keanu Reeves in which Morpheus - whose namesake is the God of dreams - offers to wake up Neo from his fake reality by taking the red pill - leading to the phrase "red pilled" meaning (a right wing variant of) "woke." Over time [x]-pilled became slang like how Watergate/ [x]-gate became a suffix to imply an imbrolglio.Turn back now
Groovy
I canβt explain it, but this one feels very different from the rest.
And I still canβt read βtubularβ without picturing a 90s TV show about skaters shot entirely with a fisheye lens.
I always took based to be a sort of ironic agreement with a slight political connotation, especially if something said seems particularly "bold."
Essentially "You totally understand who you're talking to (your "base") and the subject at hand; This guy/gal gets it; This is 'based' on hard facts" (especially when seen as controversial and few will admit it.)
You can understand how this became conservative-shitpost parlance for a while but thankfully (and ironically) has become more depolarized. So now I see it like "Yeah this fellow human being understands their fellow human beings!"
"Brainpilled" is just a stupid shift from the term "Red pill", coined by The Matrix and eventually co-opted by conspiracy theorists and others with intense socializing difficulties (that are everyone else's fault, naturally.)
The idea being you made a choice to "see the truth" when nobody else wants to.
It eventually spawned "black pilled" which is a ridiculously nihilist idea that "I see how everything really works now, and it's all terrible and there's zero hope."
And now we're at "brainpilled", like the movie Limitless maybe? LOL. "This person sees it from some genius angle us mere mortals can barely comprehend. They're playing 5D chess and we're still playing Candyland."
I dunno, some of it is fun and descriptive. Some is braindead. Language is like any art, it's like Bruce Lee says: take what works and leave the rest behind. :)
Based just means something like, βcoolest of the coolβ. They are unwavering in their conviction, and respectable in that regard.
"X pilled" = a believer in X; i.e. they've taken the red pill with regard to X and see that it is true/good.
My understanding of based is it's a way of showing respect for someone who did or said something controversial. You could disagree with what they did/said but you respect them nonetheless.
Based and apathetic-about-internet-slang-pilled.
Cheating in academia is the name of the game. There is a survivor bias here assuming the other 78 students didn't cheat. They're Learning how to not get caught. Building a better trap may simply yield a better better cheater. The proof ends up being in the work.
I still think honeypots are amusing AF.
i didnt have a big problem with cheating, except with the caveat if a test is weighted via averages, then it actively fucks over those who dont cheat, as the curve is set higher than it should.
I have average intelligence and maintained a 3.5 at a top bioengineering school. I barely went to lectures, and just made sure to stay on top of the material through online resources (we have literally everything ever available to us). Id say not being a dumbass is the name of the game.
It always surprises me when I interview new graduates now and they can't explain any of their projects or pass a basic software proficiency test that most intro classes should cover (I usually ask them to write code to reverse complement a DNA sequence.. just swap out some letters and reverse a string, I do include the rules in the prompt). I think cheating is really rampant in software students.
Not trying to invalidate your experience, but I bet a portion of that could be explained by the brain-dump method students are conditioned for in grade schools before college.
I graduated from software engineering but still until this point, I loathe using one of the chatbots to make the code I want to make work on my own. I've used it twice to ask about how to organize a big software project but that was it. I am just a couple years older than the interns at my office but...damn...they are abusing chatgpt to get stuff done, albeit barely, because intern intelligence never ceases to amaze, and it's funny to watch.
If they wanna cheat, they should at least learn or practice that which they try to cheat xd
There was an early episode of Naruto that involved a test that was nigh impossible for someone of their grade level. The actual purpose of the test was to see how good they were at cheating without getting caught, which would translate to their ability to gather information in enemy territory. I think about that a lot.
Star Trek version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru
Reminded of Space Cadet:
Cheat (open your eyes) -> score is too high -> fail
Keep eyes closed -> laughably low score -> perfect!
At a certain point though, you've just plain done the work. If you jump through enough hoops to cheat then you have to know the material well enough. Like doing a bunch of editing passes on downloaded papers.
Makes me think of the Key & Peele sketch where the bank robbers' plan is to get jobs at the bank and get steal the money week after week in the form of paychecks.
It's so much easier to just go to class and do the assignment work.
The same mentality that tries to cheat also doesn't understand that actually knowing the material is crucial to actually doing the job.
Sure, they'll argue that we only use about 2 weeks of accumulated college knowledge in our professional careers, and that claim apparently checks out; but it's the very last few weeks that we've built on the years of pre-req that we use later on. I.e it's just the tip of the iceberg, but it's the tip of a fucking iceberg.
It also disregards all the secondary and tertiary benefits to "knowing the material" and those benefits of doing the work to get there.
Like honing your ability to research, skills in pulling the actual useful info out of diverse sources of vastly differing quality, speed at which you can pick up new ideas and concepts, etc.
Part of what you're learning is how to do the boring grunt work of learning itself, and honing your skills at that through experience
The most boring days of my job are when I just need to follow well written directions or documentation. The real test is when you're past that and you need to combine multiple things to meet your specific situation, when no one who has figured it out before ever documented it in one easy place.
It's interesting to me that mental effort is generally avoided by the majority of people.
They'll go to extreme lengths to simply, not have to solve the problem themselves.
Wish more teachers had that dedication to something, in general.
At university most teachers have serious dedication. It's just not for teaching, lmao.
But once you do your thesis, discussion in their respective fields of research or general expertise is really awesome.
What is TA?
Teacher's Assistant/Teaching Aide
Basically an older student helping teach the younger ones as a parttime job. Generally involves a lot of crappy work like supervising labwork, helping out with grading and answering the same question 18 times.
TITS ASS
LETS GOOO
TITS ASS
Tourette's Affected?
This is equal part fucked up and you get what's fucking coming to you
Anon's prof is a G.
What is TA?
Teaching assistant. They do a whole bunch of stuff for professors like grading, teaching, and the like
Teaching assistant
Heβs just keeping you boys honest.
I have a feeling that people are confusing asocial with anti-social.
*Bad. Fuck you.
"Bad; fuck you." would have also been acceptable.
What's TA?
Teaching assistant
Why are these pictures always so difficult to read? The text is all scrambled!
If you're using an app, you may need to adjust image quality in the settings. For Boost, there's an HD button on the image by default.
Yep, that work better, thanks!
This is why fizzbuzz exists
You are the Devil.
I mean you really are, you tempted people into sin and then laughed as they were damned for it.
*Asocial.
1: Blah blah blah linguistic shifts
2: How would you know if he's not using correctly? You think a 4chan shit poster is above having a head in a fridge?
- Blah blah blah you smell.
- Good point - this is most likely the case.
France has an authority for their language and its three main domestic dialects.
It'd be nice if a similar but global body gate-kept the drift in English. The current system where high-school cliques decides what's Fetch and Mirriam-Webster's monkeys just write it all down with no cohesion is not a basis for progress.
Language people: English has surprising inconsistencies.
Also language people: 'literally' now also means its exact opposite because Ashley said so.
Mfw anon starts greentext with "be me". Canβt you find another opener.
No, that's the format.
Be someone else
Doesn't have quite the same ring.
Isn't this basically the same thing as entrapment?
Entrapment is coercing someone into committing a crime they wouldn't have otherwise.
This was a honeypot. A bait for those who were already looking to cheat.
no, not at all. simply presenting someone with an opportunity to break the rules isn't entrapment, you'd have to threaten or coerce them into breaking the rules.
That's entrapment. If it's illegal for a cop to make an arrest like that, the professor shouldn't be able to get people expelled like that.
"If it's illegal for a cop to make an arrest like that"
luckily it's not, because this isn't entrapment. Otherwise every drug sting would be illegal.
Honeypots are not entrapment. "Here are drugs to sell" is a honeypot. "Sell these drugs or I'll tell your pastor you're gay" is entrapment.
Likewise, "here are some resources to cheat" is a honeypot. "Cheating is required to pass because the task is impossible otherwise " is entrapment.
