Ultraviolet light can kill almost all the viruses in a room. Why isn’t it everywhere?
Ultraviolet light can kill almost all the viruses in a room. Why isn’t it everywhere?
Can special lightbulbs end the next pandemic before it starts?
Ultraviolet light can kill almost all the viruses in a room. Why isn’t it everywhere?::Can special lightbulbs end the next pandemic before it starts?
Because the spectrum required (UV-C) to do so is harmful to humans and the environment. Putting it EVERYWHERE would cause all kinds of problems.
The article blathers on for page after page after page talking about technology is back in the '60s and '70s, an experimental technology using UV wavelengths that supposedly don't bother humans. And systems that only point up in a room like the UV light isn't going to get reflected into your eyeballs. I get the feeling the author doesn't have much of a background and was really just trying to stitch a bunch of research together without really understanding most of it.
You can safely blast the shit out of central air ducts, but it doesn't do anything for infected breathing viruses into the air sitting next to you or the people that touched the bathroom door handle.
I suspect if we see any real non biased studies come out of any of this equipment the difference will be close to within the error bar.
This is the most informed comment in the thread where it's clear you actually read the damn article.
Some of this does appear to be due to a widespread misunderstanding about how droplets spread disease in the medical field. It was thought that UV light far enough away to be safe would also be too far away to be effective. At least, not without additional ventilation, but ventilation itself would help reduce the spread, and we don't do that because it's expensive. UV would be cheap.
Research conducted during Covid corrected this scientific misunderstanding, and UV may be effective without additional ventilation. Ozone effects still need to be studied, though, as well as overall effectiveness. It might be that the additional ozone causes a few hundred additional deaths, but with the tradeoff of thousands or even millions fewer respiratory disease deaths. That would be a worthwhile tradeoff, but we don't know what those numbers look like.
The article itself mentions solutions to the issue of it being harmful to humans, either by putting it at a distance in the ceiling or just running air ventilation through it, or choosing a specific spectrum that apparently doesn't seem to be harmful due to being blocked by the dead cell layer of one's skin. The environmental issue though also gets talked about, and is suggested to be more the problem.
Just yesterday, I was defending Lemmy users by saying that they actually do read the article, but here we are.
The article talks about this specifically. Far-UV (222nm) doesn't penetrate skin or eyes and is harmless to humans. The usual UV-C used for disinfection is 254nm and is quite dangerous.
Will there be any benefit to say putting it in the air duct? Like on a forced air system the main exhaust from the unit (I'm guessing it's exhaust but that sounds wrong). I know some air filters are supposed to filter out airborne viruses and whatnot but I have no way of testing that. But I know what ultraviolet will do. And I'd have to assume sitting in the metal ductwork wouldn't really hurt anything.
This article is a longer version of “bleach kills it fast - what if that could be brought inside the body somehow?”
Just eat a tide pod and wash it down with some bleach!
"X can kill gems! Why don't we use X everywhere?"
X: Thing that can kill humans too. And/or cause cancer.
See also:
-
Fire
-
chlorine gas
-
dehydration
-
Boiling water
-
Radiation
tbh I wouldn't mind running some of my stuff through a cleansing by fire ritual once in a while
It worked for Thích Quảng Đức !
Just use sarine FFS, that'll teach them little invisible bastards
Don't forget bleach!
-
Because it's great at killing things, including human skin. Seriously, my local gym has people practically sign their life away before letting them into a UV-A/B tanning booth. No way are you putting the even worse UV-C bulbs out in public. That's how people got their retinas fried at a crypto conference in Hong Kong last year.
Yo what?! You have a link about that retina destroying conference?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/06/guests-bored-ape-event-hong-kong-vision-problems
It was a Bored Ape event "ApeFest' in November. They used harmful UV bulbs instead of regular black light for decoration.
People think I'm nuts when I wear sunglasses on cloudy days, but my eyes hurt. Idk why they don't hurt the same way sunny days, probably I don't squint when it's not so sunny.
Probably the scattering effect of the clouds. Instead of light coming from one direction, which you can angle away from to reduce intensity, the diffused light from the clouds is bouncing every which way. Which while making the intensity less, instead keeps it constant no matter where you face. I often wear sunglasses while driving on cloudy days for similar reasons.
Basically, looking at direct sunlight will obviously be more damaging, but diffused light doesn't give you a break.
cuz it literally burns your eye holes
Might be a good idea though if you could pair it with timers/sensors so that it only turns on when people aren't home or something.
Like a 1 hour disinfection every day while people are at work/school.
Don't most virus just becomes useless on most surfaces after so long anyway?
I'm going to shill for LifX here and not get paid for it. I swear.
They already made smart bulbs that you can set a "cleaning schedule" on that uses UV light.
I don't have any yet because LifX is expensive. I have 11 of their multicolor bulbs throughout the house, though. Bought those back when I had bachelor guy money.
I’ve got my house kitted out with quite a bit of intelligence. I’ve spent a lot of time and money getting it working right, and it still has issues with human presence among other things.
I would absolutely not trust any automated system with something like this. It’s like buying tools from harbor freight: anything that makes your life easier is fine but never buy something from harbor freight that you have to entrust your life to. Similarly, never trust an automation that has the potential to end your life.
Ive seen this at universities
Better idea, they turn off if you look at them and then when you look away they turn back on. Simple
UV light is both: A. Damaging to eyesight. B. Invisible.
You won't know how much damage you're doing to yourself until the damage has been done. This is how you give mass amounts of people eye trauma, and potentially blindness.
UV light is regularly used on HVAC systems and water purification systems.
There are systems used in hospitals that are automated which will roll into an empty room and then turn on to disinfect the room. They are usually used in hospitals but I’ve seen them used in places like China during their zero covid crackdown on public transportation.
Some transit systems in China even converted a paint booths to disinfect with UV so they could drive buses through. All of which is probably overkill as prolonged exposure to sunlight will do the same thing.
Exposure to UV light that is intense enough to kill viruses within seconds is very bad for humans. I pulled the cover off a system I was taking marketing pictures for while it was turned on. Within a thirty to sixty seconds I could feel like I was getting a sunburn on my arm that was closest to the light. I wouldn’t want to risk a direct UV system turning on while someone is sleeping and burning them. As a result most systems are indirect and rely on a combination of UV and HEPA filters to disinfect airborne viruses.
There are other ways to disinfect surfaces. Bleach or chlorine is cheap, simple and won’t harm humans. Chlorine gas can be used to kill really bad viruses like anthrax. Chlorine gas was used to disinfect the Federal buildings that had been contaminated in the 2001 anthrax attacks. Many detail shops, rental car agencies and public transit systems in the US use Chlorine gas on vehicles to disinfect or more commonly remove nasty odors from vehicles. The gas can seep into all cracks/crevices and get into the HVAC system ductwork in ways UV light can not. If you ever get into a car that faintly smells like a pool, chances are it has been gassed recently to kill an odor.
We use uv light stands in the hospital. We will shut down a room and run a uv sanitizer for a bit. It works in some instances but it's not exactly something you can just leave running all the time. Everyone would probably have a sick tan tho.. To go with their skin cancer..
Those are 254nm. Far-UV is 222nm, which doesn't penetrate or damage skin or the eyes and seems to be completely safe to humans. The main issue is that it can generate ozone, but how significant that is is currently unknown.
Ozone is also used to disinfect, that's double the disinfection power!!!
Pretty counterintuitive that in order to make UV less dangerous for humans, you can make it more ionizing. Anyway, I'd expect problems with degradation/yellowing of plastics, bleaching of everything in range, and massive issues with indoor ozone and some other forms of air pollution
I'm a little confused about the ozone because I know multiple people that have literal ozone makers in their home.
people are fucking morons, i guess they got sold on altmed hype on this one (mostly)
Who the hell thought that an NFT festival was a good idea and unprotected UV lights?
Maybe the organisers were exposed to gamma radiation lwhen they thought up the event.
i imagine theres a lot of overlap.
Jeez, every response in here is about it burning your eyes. Thing is, people aren't in every room all the time. Have it set to a sensor, same as the lights, and you can quickly sanitize large spaces that are unoccupied. Elevators, airplanes, etc can be sanitized the second they're empty. My FIL is a retired GE engineer working on this technology.
Have it set to a sensor, same as the lights
Given how often the lights go out at work while I’m taking a dump, this isn’t the best idea.
It's definitely easier to tell if something is in a room than it is to tell if nothing is in a room. And sensors still fail at that. Timers would probably be better, since you don't need disinfection every time a room is used.
If you know the office building will be empty every day at 2AM have the lights do their work between 2-3 every morning.
Sounds dangerous
I have lights go out on me all the time at the office, just sitting mildly still. What happens if someone falls asleep in the room? Or worse a kid? Severe sunburn and possible blindness
Or what if they're black? I've read so many stories about sensors not detecting people simply because they have darker skin.
I dont think the lights would be on the entire time the room was empty...
Better presence sensors exist, and are only used in such critical situations. These are based on radar and sense the chest movements of people.
I've been in a restroom and had the lights turn off on me because a sensor didn't detect someone was still I the room. I'd bet good money I'm not the only one. Sensors, presently, are either invasive or inaccurate. Or both.
The light can be tucked away into the HVAC. The light never needs to hit anyone. You got central heating/cooling? One light, whole building. It's almost criminal this isn't common.
That is... Genius, the light probably needs some time to work but the idea of disinfecting a at a central location can work well for indoor air.
But my sweaty mouse pad, and dust stuck on the floor would need another system.
Ever noticed how stuff left out in the sun gets bleached out and doesn't last very long? Imagine leaving your carpet and all your furniture out in the sun. UV light is very hard on stuff.
Because it is very dangerous and people will absolutely let their toddler play next to the lamp. This is why it's basically only used in places like hospitals where access can be controlled.
In the US maybe, elsewhere it's common and accessible. Here in China it's commonplace in home water filters and air purifiers for instance. I can also buy endless UV-C LED strips and do with it whatever I please.
Imagine writing this headline in a universe where daylight exists rofl.
It's not as if every part of your house has exposure to direct sunlight. They aren't made for use in houses, though. Think more like hospital rooms or classrooms on a cycle when nobody is around.
There are UV light robots at my hospital that drive into rooms and blast it with high power UVB for 15 minutes or so to help disinfect.
Did anyone actually read the article? The only guy whose question wasn't already answered by the article was the one about yellowed plastics, lol.
If it kills all the viruses it also kills you lol
That's exactly what I thought it would be
Good news everyone!
Oof, ultraviolet light. This makes me flashback to April 2020, shortly after the U.S. shutdown for the Coronavirus pandemic.
If you have 1:57 minutes of free time, watch this video of former President Donald Trump addressing the nation on the response to the novel coronavirus.
Warning: If you experience second-hand embarassment, try not to watch Dr. Birx in the background squirm in her seat as she sits through the idiot rambling of the orange man. Immediately after this press conference, corporations and media companies pushed out critical warnings to Americans to not drink or inject disinfectants like bleach.
- YouTube link: https://youtu.be/BalDN6iGYpE
- Piped link (privacy-respecting frontend for YouTube): https://piped.video/watch?v=BalDN6iGYpE
"I would like [Dr. Birx] to speak to the medical doctors. to see if there is any way that you can apply light and heat to cure [covid-19]? You know? If you could? And maybe you can, maybe you can't? Again, I say maybe you can, maybe you can't?"
"I'm not a doctor, but I'm like a person who has a good..."
Gestures vaguely at his head
"... you know what." ~ Former President Donald Trump
This video always has the beginning chopped off and misses the KEY thing about the whole fiasco. It was even dumber than you think.
Trump is walking to the podium and stops to examine a CDC infographic on an easel. An infographic about ways to sterilize surfaces.
All the bullshit Trump is spewing came from 5-seconds of reading that poster.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/BalDN6iGYpE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Bleach kills AIDS, doesn't mean you can inject it into your bloodstream and be okay.
Supposing you brought the light into the body?! Are you going to test it?
They say the eyes are the windows to the soul, it would have to go in through there.
~~Because that is specifically UV-C and it's harmful to humans too. ~~
~~for example: https://wwd.com/eye/parties/hypebeast-party-uv-lights-injuries-11036559/~~
Correction: the article is about even smaller wavelength UV which is not as harmful to humans, my bad.
Because it burns you. That's the answer. It kills your skin cells and eyes the same way it kills the bacteria. Also, it is everywhere, it's fucking outside. The sun. Fucking stupid. Idiots.
Know what else kills bacteria? Bleach. So get chugging.
So stupid.
Read the article. These problems are addressed.
Um, I'm going to copy a comment I made elsewhere:
Dude, read the article. The whole point is it uses shorter wavelengths so it doesn't penetrate your skin or cornea.
Unlike me with your mom.
At this point, it’s clear that in small-scale settings, far-UV can kill the vast majority of pathogens present, which in turn would vastly reduce the risk of respiratory disease spread. It seems safe for human skin, and likely safe for human eyes, too.
Luckily we are more thick skinned than a bacteria, who would have thought?
Imagine not reading the article and having this much confidence in your terrible response.
I worked for a company that made a UVC light system for sterilization. The amount of safety you have to build in so people wont nuke themselves makes them hard to use.Also, the bulbs we used were delicate and had issues constantly.
This thing kills all living things so why don't we bathe ourselves in it?
I chugged cleaning chemicals. Now my insides are dirt free.
Is UV light the best thing since fermenting alcohol?
This is the dumbest shit. It kills all kinds of stuff, not just bad viruses. Homes are covered in bacteria which you've adapted to and are helpful. Kind of like gut bacteria, but outside your body. Killing all of them isn't a good idea.
A bit of the old Ultraviolence, eh?
Ultraviolance: solution to anything and everything (ps: this would make a very good name for a custom minigun)
IIRC, they have UV sterilizers for central HVAC systems. So while it may not sterilize surfaces, it will kill all airborne pathogens.
The UV there is mostly to keep the inverter coils free of mould. Air typically flows too fast to be meaningfully disinfected.
Not necessarily agreeing with the article posted, but for all the people who clearly didn't read the article:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-08462-z
That's just one paper I found searching for far-UV. Seems to be many more.
Again not saying it's 100 % safe or anything, but it looks promising.
An actually halfway decent idea might be adding a strong UV light inside the washing machine or dryer to kill germs. Modern eco methords with 30-40 C° just dont kill the germs effectively. You'd need to wash your clothes at last at 60C° which most clothes (especially sports wear) cant handle anymore. Or just dry them on the outside where we also have a Strong UV source aka. The sun.
In Macau, they have little trash garages which are flooded with UV at night
UV light kills almost all viruses because it's ionizing EM radiation. So it also fucks humans up, xd. I mean just stay on sunlight naked for a day. Your body will be so happy. All the mutations from ionizing radiation would be great.
But yeah we life in a society where ppl is scared of Radiofrequency EM waves (non-ionizing), "dangerous cell phone towers, wifi dangerous". That same people recomends staying long periods of time with direct sunlight contact without protection (yeah we need protection because sunlight spectrum has UV and higher freq ionizing radiation).
Sunlight healthy/radio waves dangerous, that is the most stupid statement ever.
Sunlight is beneficial in small dosis because of how we syntetise vitamins (as little as i know). But remeber if you are scared of microwaves, remeber that sunlight has much more higher freq(higher energy) waves.
I always thought these were pretty cool. I'm not sure how HEV compares to UV though, or if it even works
The bulbs don't last very long last time I looked into this for home use
That’s how you get UV resistant strains of all kinds of microbes
Shadows.
I could see UV light also causing plastics to oxidize and become brittle much faster, because they might not be made for that kind of exposure. So using UV light might mean having to replace a lot of plastic things too.
Exactly, yes! Pretty much everything when left out in direct sunlight eventually fades or breaks down. There's a reason why UV light kills germs, it damages what is touches.
The issue with stuff that kills everything is that... Well it kills everything.
At this point, it’s clear that in small-scale settings, far-UV can kill the vast majority of pathogens present, which in turn would vastly reduce the risk of respiratory disease spread. It seems safe for human skin, and likely safe for human eyes, too.
Luckily we are more thick skinned than a bacteria, who would have thought?
That is indeed news to me! Wild stuff.
can it kill Tardigrades though?
I'm pretty sure nothing can kill tardigrades.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ultraviolet retained a small coterie of enthusiasts over the ensuing decades, focused narrowly on preventing transmission of tuberculosis — which has no reliably effective vaccine for adults — in its remaining hotbeds, like homeless shelters.
The biggest test it received, the Tuberculosis Ultraviolet Shelter Study of 1997-2004, demonstrated that “upper room” UV, in which UV-emitting lamps are placed at least 6.9 feet above the floor where they can disinfect air without harming humans, was safe.
It wasn’t — detective work from scholars including Linsey Marr, Jose-Luis Jimenez, and Katherine Randall in the middle of the pandemic determined that this conclusion was based on a misinterpretation of the Wellses’ research that had somehow persisted for decades in the medical profession.
“This is the most difficult talk I’ve had to give in my career,” Jose-Luis Jimenez, a distinguished professor of chemistry at the University of Colorado, told the audience at the first International Congress on Far-UVC Science and Technology this past June.
But 2020 was also an unusually brutal year for airborne disease: 49,783 Americans died from influenza in 2019, for instance (and none from Covid); 1 percent of that number is about 500 people, which starts to feel comparable to the air pollution cost Jimenez identifies.
Jimenez favors using UV in very high-risk locations, such as hospitals, but worries that construction companies, schools, malls, and the like will seize on the potential of far-UV as an excuse not to invest in proper ventilation and filtration, leaving us with the ugly trade-off he identifies.
The original article contains 4,104 words, the summary contains 252 words. Saved 94%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
You really dont want to live in a sterile environment, you actually need some stimulation to your immune and other bodily systems. Most body stuff is like muscles including the immune system - when you regularly over load and stress them, thats the impulse to stimulate growth and evolving.
Because my curtains are closed
Why not inject UV as a cure for all virus infections!
This way it wont reach our eyes or skin so no problems!
I'd like to know which 12 users upvoted this so that I can block them all.