Requires a criminal history background check for the purchase of a three-dimensional printer capable of creating firearms; prohibits sale to a person who would be disqualified on the basis of criminal history from being granted a license to possess a firearm.
NY bill would require a criminal history background check for the purchase of a 3D printer::Requires a criminal history background check for the purchase of a three-dimensional printer capable of creating firearms; prohibits sale to a person who would be disqualified on the basis of criminal history from being granted a license to possess a firearm.
A tube capable of firing a projectile isn't hard to make though. Maybe they should require a criminal history background check to go to the hardware store too.
A simple gun is just a tube with one end closed off. You can make a blackpowder musket for about 30 bucks at a hardware store. They even sell the lighters to set off the charge.
3d printers also make shitty guns, for the most part. Unless you’re paying hundreds of dollars for the rest of the firearm, all your making is the part that holds everything together. If you’re not using real firearm parts, a solid plastic gun is largely useless.
Are they going to require background checks to operate a CNC machine too? Cause that’s probably gonna cripple the manufacturing industry.
Classic pro-gun community, rushing to brigade a gun-related post with pre-prepared talking points.
"Why bother fixing gun laws that clearly fail to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people when you can just 3D print a gun?"
*someone makes a move to stop dangerous people 3D printing guns*
"Why bother preventing dangerous people 3D printing guns when you can just buy a bit of pipe at the hardware store?"
Criminals and domestic terrorists overwhelmingly just go to a store and buy a gun. The pro-gun community is fine with this.
For the minority that can't, straw purchases, gun show loopholes and poorly secured firearms give them much better access to safer, more reliable guns than 3D printing does. The pro-gun community is fine with this too.
A tiny fraction of crimes involve 3D printed gun parts and I'm not aware of any domestic terrorism to use any. Nevertheless, somebody could in theory print parts for a fully automatic weapon that would potentially be reliable enough for a mass shooting.
So how many crimes are being comitted with a piece of old pipe?
I know self-absorbed, gun-owning, 300lbs men pretending they'd be useful in a militia want to angrily hammer out a comment along the lines of "WHAT ABOUT THAT ASSASSINATION IN JAPAN YOU CUCK".
But the one example you can cite without googling, from every single country with gun control was clearly dogshit barely worked.
It would be a massive improvement if American criminals were forced to use home made firearms that significantly increased the price, difficulty to obtain and the danger to themselves using it.
But the pro-gun community objects by walking down a list of bullshit excuses because they can't just say "I'd rather people were shot than I was inconvienced".
It's crazy how the first thing you did was complain about people with premade talking points rushing to brigade a post, yet you're in here posting walls of text under everyone who is pointing out the logical inconsistencies of banning unregulated 3d printers but not other hardware related purchases.
Even stranger is, I can't figure out what you're upset about. You yourself say that only a tiny fraction of gun violence comes from 3d printed weapons, you say you're against the bill, so why are you getting hostile and making wild, baseless as hominem attacks against people who think it's a pointless bill?
It's not about making firearms. It's about being able to make literally anything else, the ability to do so being something that would liberate individuals, to some extent, from the capitalist system. That's what they really don't want.
This is correct. Although I'm not sure what the actual viability of using a 3d printer for cutting the costs of living in society is. From my understanding you can only kind of recycle proper 3d printer grade PLA plastic and you definitely can't make 3d printer plastic out of trash. Machine tools on the other hand can accomplish many of the same things and a greater percentage of the stuff that goes with them can be made out of trash or scrap.
Are these lawmakers aware of the fact you can 3d print a 3d printer? Or at least, about 80% of its parts, and the remaining parts are indistinguishable from the random stuff youd buy at the hardware store? (Aluminum extrusion mostly, some gears, etc)
The only part they could theoretically hope to control worth a damn would be the printing nozzles, which are so incredibly cheap to buy bulk and nearly impossible to specialize.
Also you could take this to court and point out that you would need to also include CNC machines, Laser Cutters, lathes, and any of the other variations of tools that can be used to manufacture a DIY gun.
This isnt a problem specific to 3d printers, a CNC mill that can cut aluminum is also just as capable of producing the jigs needed to manufacture gun parts.
It would, but it would also require more expense and skill and the "gun control is pointless because people will just make their own guns" lie works best when you can imply there is minimal cost, experience, effort and risk.
So the big thing people, including lawmakers, whiff on this is you dont actually 3d print guns. You can 3d print superficial parts like the grip and whatnot, but the actual firing part of the gun is largely not 3d printable.
You can print it, and people have tried, but it usually only lasts 1-2 rounds before it breaks.
However, what you can print that is a huge deal, is the very precise jigs necessary to very easily manufacture the firing mechanisms of the gun, to quite a degree of precision. Then you use a drill or whatever to actually make those metal parts.
Basically, you can easily 3d print a gun maker, and then 3d print all the "extra" parts like grip and whatnot that attach to what you have created, in order to improve it.
Thats the actually serious part, because normally these sorts of jigs need to be extremely precise and are quite difficult to get ahold of. You need a fairly high end CNC machine to make one, or you have to buy it.
But 3d printers, even fairly affordable ones, when fine tuned by hand, do have the necessary precision to print such jigs, which makes them much more accessible for quite cheap... And once you print the jig, it becomes pretty easy to mass produce DIY guns.
We do actually. Just last year new york passed the Concealed Carry Improvement act imposing a background check on ammunition purchases. This bill is completely redundant and unnecessary.
How else are corporations going to limit things like "right to repair" and sales, when people can print their own replacement parts or print stuff they would otherwise have to buy?
NY is the shining example of the simple creation of a law being enough to entirely extinguish any criminal activity related to it in the entire jurisdiction. This one is so incredibly powerful, in fact, that the very second it goes into effect, the whole state of NY will be unable to cross state lines to acquire said devil boxes, nor even use a VPN to make such a purchase online. Also, sharks are smooth.
You can make a completely 3D printed gun that will survive at least one shot. I'm sure if you're using resin or carbon fiber reinforced plastic so you could probably get more than one shot off.
You can easily create a firearm with a short length of steel pipe and a nail. I don't know how this will do anything. Plus people can just drive to another state.
I can tell ya havent interacted with the firearms communited too much. Its a lot like the car communited, sure there are quite a few folks who are overcompensating dickbags but there are just as many folks who just like em in generally which means the weirder the more interesting.
If someone could get a steel pipe and a nail to work as a functional firearm that can fire once theyd be respected, if they could get it to fire more than once and consistently there a solid chance theyd become a saint of the firearms community.
That will never happen in the lifetime of anyone who can read these comments. Our gun rights are set in stone and there's nothing you can ever do about it.
The logic of this is nonexistent. An argument could be made very convincingly that cars are dangerous to allow in the hands of criminals. 2 tons of metal, well known for and capable of ending a life, with the ability to aid criminal enterprises and avoidance of law enforcement. So should car sales now require a criminal background check? All this would do is further disenfranchise convicted felons, regardless of the actual crime committed, and create new difficulties for a group that includes a very high percentage of people already proven to give no shits about the law who will find and exploit ways to continue activities despite any laws attempting to restrict them.
You can’t buy a car in most states without insurance. You can’t get insurance without a license. You cannot get a license… and so on. So that’s not a good example.
You might not be able to register it without insurance but you can certainly buy it. Plus a significant number of drivers on the road don't have insurance because they only pay for it long enough to register the car and then never again. There's a reason those of us with insurance usually have the option for coverage if the other driver doesn't.
My understanding was that insurance was typically only a prerequisite for operating on public roadways not ownership. So you can drive a car on your own property if you say had a farm without paying for insurance.
I’m not the person you replied to, but it’s an okay comparison. It’s not perfect - 3D printers are way less dangerous than cars - but it conveys the same point.
Like cars and unlike guns, 3D printers are tools. The federal government prevents a convicted felon from owning a gun, but not from driving; generally speaking, states only prohibit this if you were convicted of reckless driving or some other vehicle related offense.
Also, once I have a license I can walk into any car dealer and drive out with a car a couple hours later. This law has an up-to-15 day turn around for the background check and no means of attesting that you are licensed and permitted to purchase a 3D printer without waiting. That’s gonna be a pain for everyone who’s interested in a 3D printer. If my car is taken out of service and I need it to get to work, I can buy another. I don’t have to wait 15 days. If my business involves 3D printing and one of my printers breaks down and needs replaced, having to wait an extra 15 days for a replacement is ridiculous.
If the law said “Felons who were convicted of crimes involving 3D printers may not purchase or own a 3D printer” then that would be more appropriate and closer to how cars are handled.
IMO a more apt comparison would be to other consumer grade tools, like drills, circular saws, etc.. Just because I can theoretically make something dangerous with such a tool doesn’t mean the tool needs to be restricted.
Afaik NY doesn’t prohibit felons from buying an “80 percent” Glock frame, a Glock slide, and a Dremel, nor does it prevent them from buying a CNC that can mill a full metal gun. (NJ prohibits the first of those (for everyone) and it’s illegal there to construct a gun at home if you aren’t legally permitted to own one, but that’s harder to enforce.) Either of those legal purchase sets enable you to create a gun at home that’s a much more effective firearm than can be 3D printed. Prohibiting them from buying a 3D printer (when technically even an Ender 3 can print a “gun”) is just silly.
Some stats: in the USA, there were:
1.2 guns per capita in 2017.
333 million residents in 2022
estimating 400 million guns in 2022
20k deaths by gun violence in 2022 (and slightly more deaths by suicide involving a gun)
422k or so 3d printers in the US (according to this site in 2020); this number is probably triple or more now, though
0 people killed with guns verified to have been created by 3d printers ever in the US (I found one unverified account)
264 million registered vehicles in 2015
35,485 deaths due to motor vehicle collisions in 2015
Can anyone name one crime that has been committed with a 3d printed gun from the last 3 years that hasn't been committed 100x more often in the last week with a stolen or illegally obtained gun.
Or by legal gun owners, who are responsible for a massive percentage of gun violence, (for example, 80% of all mass shootings).
You know, the same legal gun owners who let their guns get stolen or staunchly oppose closing gun show loopholes or making straw-purchasing more difficult.
I agree with all of your points but have a small nitpick that I really wish people would stop calling it the gun show loophole
The loophole is that private sales (depending on state laws) don't require a background check (which, to be clear, I disagree with)
But all of those guys with tables set up at the gun show are FFL dealers, buying from them is just like buying from any regular gun shop with all of the normal background checks and other requirements you'd expect in your state.
Now any of the random folks wandering around the show, in theory, could sell you a gun without any background check, but that's not unique to them being at a gun show, they could do the same from their garage, a Walmart parking lot, a random street corner, a TGI Fridays, etc.
I'm also pretty sure that most, if not all gun shows specifically prohibit those private sales from happening at their events.
Again, I'd like to see the loophole closed, but calling it a gun show loophole just leaves the door open for gun nuts to say "lol, there is no gun show loophole, see you don't even know what you're talking about" because there's really nothing unique about gun shows as it pertains to the law.
Instead i'd say we should refer to it as the private sale loophole or the Brady bill loophole.
Oh, did we start requiring criminal background checks for pipes and metal stock too? This is the same problem we’re facing in the rest of the country, everything can be used as a weapon, and requiring background checks on all of them is gonna do nothing to stop gun crime. Regulate the damn guns, that is the only thing that will help.
No you don't understand. The pro-gun community would support a solution, it just needs to be instantly and 100% effective without inconveniencing a single gun owner or costing anything.
It's a completely reasonable position and not at all just an excuse to do nothing.
America isn't the only country in the world with hardware stores yet is still the only country in the world with weekly mass shootings -- 80% of which use legally purchased firearms and 0% of which use home made guns.
I'm a leftist, I don't support laws like this cause they don't actually do anything. Dems fr have been supporting initivies to fork over more and more data.
Here's a fun fact, hobby machinists have been making guns in their garages for as long as machining has been a career.
You can, right now, buy a drill press for a few hundred bucks and finish 80% lowers in an apartment if you want. If you have a lot of money to spend you could buy a mini mill and make the job a lot easier.
These are completely unregulated and arguably much more dangerous.
Hell, you can make a basic pipe shotgun with a $5 hacksaw and some steel pipe. Not only that, but you can pretty convert tons of guns to full auto with basically no effort. Sometimes literally a piece of coat hanger bent with pliers. The Lightning Link, which can convert a majority of modern ARs to full auto has been around for decades and can be made with about $1 worth of steel, a piece of paper with the design printed on it, and that hacksaw you used earlier. Even some guy in his garage could easily make hundreds a year without a single power tool.
All of this is to say, you know what we don't see? Millions of illegal full-auto firearms being used to re-enact the minigun scene from Terminator 2. Much to the shock of our government, the vast majority of citizens are law-abiding, and stupid shit like this once again only harms normal people while criminals will just continue to break the law as usual.
And I can't even remember the last time a crime was committed with a made-at-home gun. We're really going after the people that commit all the violence. 🙄
It's such an easy window into the fact that it's about cutting the access to weapons of the population who might use them to fight back against government action. They dgaf if we murder each other, they just don't want us murdering them.
This is just a way to restrict individual freedom from corporate ownership. It's the equivalent of "for the children". If you're against guns don't fall for this bait, support some other legislation.
You see they have the fact that the only places you can get a 3d printer in Vermont is through Amazon as the only places you can get anything remotely techy is at the only Best buy in the state or some auto shop and from my experience I've never seen a 3d printer there
Also absurd and unconstitutional. You can make a rudimentary gun out of plumbing parts from a hardware store that is at least as effective as a 3d printer, arguably more so if you're looking at 100% printed parts. Should we run background checks at the register at Home Depot? Should you not be able to buy plumbing if you made some bad decisions and served the time?
These are all ridiculous laws designed to restrict the liberties of the common man.
as you should, Americans have forgotten just how dangerous the world really is. You would think people would have learned something from the Hamas attacks on civilians Israel
Private party transfers of anything can't really be forced to abide background checks. If you want to buy a used printer from your friend you can just buy it, not inform the government, and skirt any background check requirements.
So you want a deliberate "3D printer show" loophole?
Other countries have absolutely no problem whatsoever enforcing background checks for private firearm transfers. Claiming it can't be done is a self-serving lie.
Has anybody actually successfully produced a proper firearm with a 3D printer? Like, one that doesn't melt after firing a shot? Who are these people who've created this nonsensical panic?
On firearms in the US, the receiver (usually) is legally “the gun”. Everything else is parts. In a gun store you sign a 4473 federal form for a gun. You can walk out paying cash for parts with no papers. Mailing a gun requires numerous special procedures. Mailing parts is as simple as mailing anything else.
There have been a lot of 3D printed receivers, aka “the gun” made, and then all the relevant parts added. I don’t know how many, because by its nature the numbers aren’t really tracked, but there is an active hobbiest community for the practice.
This is a modernization of the older practice of building guns at home. Using traditional methods, guns including AR-15s (easy) to AKs (hard) have been built at home from non-gun materials for receivers, and then fitted with parts.
Not that I agree with the panic. It’s silly. As above mentioned, 3D printing is an evolution of the practice not a revolutionary new way to access guns.
Your average consumer grade 3d printer cannot print in metal. I looked into this at one point for jewelry, and you need commercial printers that cost thousands upon thousands of dollars for most metals.
Having said that, yes, 3d printing guns has reached a point where people can make 100% 3d printed full auto guns in pistol calibers. In fact, that's exactly what the Burmese resistance groups are using to fight back against the genocidal regime in their country. Because nobody in the international community cares enough to support them with military arms, but they can get 3d printers to print enough guns that they can kill and loot soldiers for better guns.