Today 10 years ago I got a Firefox OS phone

Imo that's what caused Firefox to lose market share to Chrome. They focused too much on Firefox OS and deprioritized browser development. In one example, it took them a long time to implement FIDO when it was already functional in Chrome.

Considering how dominant the mobile OS has become, this wasn’t a terrible gamble. Like they lost and it looks bad in hindsight, but you can’t blame them for trying. If it had succeeded, we’d be living in a very different world of technology right now.
- My recollection was that the game was already down to just iOS or Android by the time this came out. Windows Phone still existed, but it was already being ignored by popular apps like Snapchat.
  
  Plus the people who even knew about this (tech people) didn't like the "everything is a web app" idea when Chrome OS did it, much less a smartphone.
- User experience beats everything else. It sounds like some essential components were never finished
- They timed it right so that they fucked up both ways, in the browser and in the low end web-connected phone market. They are clowns.
I think what destroyed Firefox market share was a RAM leak that took them like a year or two to fix. It consumed all of your available RAM and would bog your computer down. I know that's what drove me away. It took like 10 years for me to come back.
Once Firefox lost session manager and downthemall, it was dead to me.

Nowadays I use edge. All the benefits of chrome plus it's leaner.

I use kiwi browser on phones for the addons, and because it's faster than Firefox
- I haven't looked into those specifically, but I'm pretty sure there are alternatives that do the exact same things for FF
- I use Tab Session Manager and Session Sync add-ons with Firefox and I'm quite happy with them.
Chrome won the browser war because they were lightweight, had better plugins support and it was easy to integrate with you google accounts, which were basically standard.

Firefox at the time was plagued by memory leaks and it was worse with plug-ins installed.

Ironically I switched back to Firefox years ago because Chrome was having those same issues that Firefox was had.
Fxos was just android + a custom launcher, it was not a huge investment since it was just a launcher in the end. They focused on low prices, a camera to create video reports and a usable mobile browser.
- This is incorrect, it was also Linux-based but completely unrelated to Android.

Wish something like that would come back.

Same, having competitors to Android and iOS would be great.
- The are some alternatives out there. Calling them competitive might be a stretch though.
- I had a Windows Phone (NOT the older Windows Mobile) for a while back around 2011 thanks to my job as a multi-platform mobile developer. I loved that phone and the OS and developing apps for it was a lot easier and faster than for Android or iOS. I was surprised at how quickly Microsoft kicked the whole thing to the curb.
- There's a Linux phone, but I've heard it is a beautiful mess.
- We have GNU/Linux on smartphones now. There is PinePhone and Librem 5. Some Android phones can run GNU/Linux too.
It's KaiOS now, completely independent from Mozilla
- People talk about FFOS like it was a failed project while in reality it was successfully commercialized and is so popular it has a native WhatsApp client. It has ~70x more users than LineageOS. Maybe Mozilla didn't knew how to make money out of it but it's definitely was a great OS project.
there are a few like postmarketos and ubuntu touch for specific phones, among others
We have PinePhone and Librem 5 now.

This makes me nostalgic for my Palm Pre and webOS.

Me too. I loved webOS. Favorite phone I've ever had.
I don't use them anymore but still have them laying around for the kids to use them as play phones I just love that hinge, such a great designed/engenired product.

oh wow, i had forgotten! I too was hopeful....

This makes me nostalgic for my old Palm Pre. It was basicallly ChromeOS: Phone Edition. So far ahead of its time if was dismissed….and the hardware engineering was trash. That may have contributed to its downfall a little.
- The Palm Pre was so fun. I bought a pre+ for 20 dollars towards the end.
- Downfall? It has 150M active users today.

If you are still interesting in Linux phone, consider looking at PinePhone Pro. I would recommend it only for experience users and the phone experience is far from Android, but software is catching up. Check @linuxphones

P.S. writing this comment from PPP :)

Or SailfishOS! Has Android layer where apps can run seamlessly (without some hardware stuff support, like fingerprint etc.).
- Want to mention that on GNU/Linux we also have Waydroid that provides Android app support :)
How is PinePhone Pro now? It's been over a year since its release and reading on reddit a few months ago it still seemed behind the original PinePhone. I would like to upgrade to the Pro version, but I'm worried it will be another year for it to be stable.
- I think its on par with the original PP now. I also own PP and I would recommend to upgrade, performance is way better.
  
  But if you do, I would recommend to use megi's u-boot fork to improve your battery life.
I know about the PinePhone Pro and I am quite experienced.
But even hardcore hairy dude like Drew Devault disavowed it (source).
- It seems that the main complaint is calls and SMS. I use different distro (Arch, btw) with FOSS firmware for the modem and calls / SMS work fine for me.
bad link ?
- Sorry, forgot that I need to use exclamation mark: [email protected]
- Nah. just not properly linked instance.
Are there any foss options for non-tech people?
- If you mean GNU/Linux - no. But you can buy a phone that supports Lineage OS. It's Android distribution, so you will have everything you used to have on your phone and the OS will be fully FOSS.

Ah, nostalgic! I loved the Firefox OS! I even preached about it to family and friends. Good times.

Unfortunately it never felt like a finished product.

What is this? A phone for ants?

I remember a time when all of the companies were striving to make cell phones as small as possible. But as soon as touch screens came out that trend reversed.
- When we realized we could watch porn on them.
The nexus 5 was peak size for a phone imo, it's a nightmare trying to find a decent 5" phone nowadays.
- Nexus 5 was just peak EVERYTHING for that time. Badass hardware, badass display, size, design, everything about it was amazing even if it had no fingerprint sensor until the Nexus 5X and 6P.
  
  God I miss when they made phones with love.
- Iphone mini apparently is pretty good.
- I got a oneplus one, that was good too
  
  I want to see something like this but without the bezels
- People have been praising some smallish Asus thing lately
Reminds me of the original 3.5” iPhone. Absolutely tiny by todays standards.

today there are comparable projects with like postmarketos and ubuntu touch for specific phones, among other linux mobile projects

Also Sailfish OS (though it's not fully open source), which I use.
- I sincerely hoped Jolla would at least continue to make one technology demonstrator hardware model available for purchase by enthusiasts. The current situation where I have to buy a phone and then buy OS separately is not feasible for me.
- I really wish they had opened all of the system.
  
  I mean: what is it they can still lose? I'm pretty sure a few licenses are not making them break even. Do they fear some third parties would copy the OS and release phones with it? Would that not be a sign that other companies trust in the OS and help them land bigger contracts?
  
  /e/ managed to get a business off with a full opensource stack, without building the phones themselves. What prevents Jolla to try the same approach?
  
  They could have been the main developers of the true Linux opensource phone OS. Instead, they're going to get passed by Plasma Mobile, and then they'll have nothing left to offer.
Ubuntu Touch has been pretty decent, and because of how it's built, device support is a lot more widespread. Although it's in this perpetually broken state now, because of the transition to the Focal base.

No luck at all with Postmarket though, on any of my devices. One is marked as bootable but unusable, but I can't even install it fully
- Ahh, my appraisal might be the opposite, PMOS seemed to have better software and support for things like the Pinephone and I thought it ran on more devices, but I am happy to see both projects and it's nice to see both designs

I never understood why they targetted low end hardware with a tech stack that's notoriously slow (web).

This was exactly my (dumb, layman) view of things - great idea hobbled from the outset by the marriage of slow web apps with slower hardware.
To keep it affordable?
- Then use something more efficient than the web stack. In the end, Android ran better on the same devices and had better software support.

I remember when Ubuntu for phones was hyped so big, then it fell flat...

can you still get that
- Yep https://ubuntu-touch.io/ . Rolling out LTS 20.04 for their supported phones at the moment.

I was thinking of getting one of these when they were very cheap. I really wanted FF OS and other alternatives to succeed or at least exist, because Android was just never very good and I foresaw how Google is just gonna abuse its monopoly and make life difficult for everyone.

But Mozilla was like "now it's not the right time to introduce a mobile OS" - wtf, when if not exactly at the time when markets were still forming? It was now or never, and Mozilla threw in the towel so quickly it almost feels like someone got a nice paycheck from Google or something.

And while I never got that phone at the end, it did look like it had some decent basis and ideas in it that could've developed into something cool. Alas.

What ever happened to the Ubuntu mobile OS?
- Canonical stopped development and ubports took over

For the curious people, Firefox OS kept living in a way, being used as the foundation for KaiOS, which was a smart operative system for "dumb" phones. This one took off in certain parts of the world.

Am I the only one that misses a thick bezel?

Thick bezels are great for actual comfortable usage, but they don't look sexy so they're no more
It's nostalgic for sure, but from a UX perspective I am so happy with the edge to edge displays.

My only gripe is that they work best with at least a little Bezel. Too little side bezel especially, and the edges of your palms will give you false input. Incredibly annoying.

The iPhones have been really good with this thankfully.

That being said, I fucking love my Galaxy S5. I miss the days of rooting and custom roms on practically every android device.
- Isn't the software supposed to correct for such false input in most cases?
I wrap my $1200 piece of hardware in a good case. Basically gives me a bezel. Check out the OtterBox Commuter.
- That's what bugs me about modern phone design, though. They could put Otterbox-type protection right on the phone and that'd be fine for most people. Personally have an S23 and I think it's unnecessarily ugly, thin, and easy to drop, when it's not in a case.
- I'm so cheap, this one plus nord POS for 250 suits me pretty good, comes with a case and screen protector sticker from the factory. I'm more thrilled to have a regular headphones port and memory card slot.
I definitely miss simple rectangle displays. Curved corners and notches annoy me to the point of giving me anxiety. For bezels, one can at least put the phone in a case.
- Do you actually get anxiety from a curved corner or was that just hyperbole?
- They're coming back. The Galaxy S 23/22 Ultra both are squared.
You can still get phones like the pixel 7a, which has thick bezels, so I'd say they aren't completely gone from the market yet.
- Unfortunately they still won't put in a headphone jack which is a deal breaker for me. It's a real shame because i would otherwise really like a pixel phone.
Sometimes, makes using a tablet easier & I liked "chins" on iphone for the fingerprint reader.
- I still want to go back to my Moto G6. The fingerprint reader on the chin is perfect. It replaced all the buttons so I didn't need the virtual chin or finicky edge gestures.

Fira font <3

I completely forgot Firefox had a phone.

Facebook has phones too back then, though they're just Android with Facebook button.
- Not long before Amazon came out with their spyware phone.
  
  Seriously - they bragged about how the Fire Phone was always spying on you and still tried to charge $600 for it. Like three months later, they had to discount it to $99 and include a year of Prime.

This reminds me... What happened to Sailfish?

I also had a Sailfish phone, but someone broke into my appartment and stole it together with other electeonic devices. I alwaydös wanted to know what happened when they tried to sell it :D
- Thief had an epiphany and became a Linux kernel committer.
- I once had a very unique camera stolen. I expected the thief won't know what the fuck it is so it'll show up on a classified nearby; so I asked the local photography community to keep an eye out. A couple weeks later I was notified that that kind of camera is for sale in the town over. I went to look as a potential buyer with cops following me, and got it back.
Not exactly an answer to your question, but it does discuss Sailfish a little and is pretty interesting: https://youtu.be/HzCMKbhK-EY
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/HzCMKbhK-EY
  
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

I would love another, more privacy focused os. I've tried graphene, etc, but something altogether different would be cool.

It would be great, but a big problem that I see with a new, completely different OS is... the apps.

If a new OS not based on Android launches tomorrow, it will have no 3rd party apps, and it will be very hard to catch momentum without WhatsApp, Youtube, Netflix, Spotify, TikTok, Facebook, ~~Twitter~~ X (🙄), Uber... all of those apps that most people use their phone for 90% of the time.
- It's what killed Windows Phone. There was a period of about 6 seconds to get in on the commercial phone OS game, and it was long gone by the time Windows made a legitimate effort (Windows Mobile phones didn't really count - they were stuck with legacy PDA software).
  
  Honestly, the AT&T exclusivity and the late rollout of the app store (iPhones initially only had the factory apps) were the opening that let Android in.

FFOS was an html mess. The GUI didn't have much to offer. You couldn't organize your apps since they were only accessible through the cluttered app drawer.

The HTML was not the problem, the never finished OS was one yes.

I still liked it because of how easy it was to develop apps for it like I did with my https://jeena.net/feedmonkey
- Indeed, there were advantages when It came to app development. There was for example, the Unity web exporter. Embedding web apps for the OS worked out of the box. On the flip side, there was an impact on performance. Like there was no multithreading possible. At least not for the Unity Web export.

We had two of these that ended up sitting in my desk at work back around that time. They were sent to us free with hopes we would port our (shitty) android/iOS apps to it. One was a bit newer, but they both just felt shitty compared to the equivalent Nexus or iPhone of the time, so I never bothered trying to use it as a daily driver. I wasn't even on the app dev team, no one else wanted them or cared at all. Was fun as a technical curiosity though.

Remember when android phones fitted in hands?

I don't miss it.
- as someone with small hands: I very much do

I remember using multiROM to install Lineage OS, Sailfish OS and Firefox OS all at the same time on my Nexus 4. I wished there was some kind of software today that you could dual boot an android phone.

I thought this was an urban myth or a collective hysteria.

How much functionality is left on that phone?

i really hope these alt-mobile OS's take off, i know theres things like pinephone and kde mobile but they're still a little bit rough around the edges last i checked.. at the same time tho maybe i should do some more digging around. i imagine someone's made a daily-driveable alternate OS for phones at this point

I tried it on my Nexus 5 as well. It didn't work well for my needs at that time, so I went back to putting Android on it.

I daily drove the ZTE Open and then the ZTE Open C for over a year each. Still have them kicking around in a box somewhere. Returning to Android was weird, but unfortunately there just weren't good alternatives, since Ubuntu bailed on Ubuntu Touch about the same time Mozilla pivoted away from FirefoxOS.

I've considered going with a Pine Phone, but not sure I want to go back to not having 5G support at this point. Kinda hoping that eventually we might start seeing more open alternatives once RISC-V matures a bit, but that's probably still quite a few years away at this point.

I spent a couple weeks in Poland exactly in August 2013 and I distinctly remember a huge Firefox OS billboard on the Warsaw Central train station building.

So development was abandoned, whatever happened with the Ubuntu OS for cell phones?

Community maintained, still gets updates and features from time to time.

https://ubports.com/en/
It still exists but only officially supports google nexus and some niche phones. I don’t think it’s going anywhere but I do hope to be wrong someday. At the moment there are options like GrapheneOS to run Android without letting Google into all your shit by default.

That home button is really cute. Reminds me of the iPod Nano 7

Oh man, I wanted one of those so bad back in the day, how was it?

It was quite slow because of the hardware, it sometimes wouldn't recognize touches, and the software had so many bugs like that when you got a call, you couldn't take it because there would be some overlay over the button to take the call which would steal the touch most of the time, etc.

Now it is Kai OS

And it sucks unless you want a feature phone.
commercially, but there's also https://capyloon.org/

offering a GSI too, so if you have a modern Android lying around you can install it

OS aside, the Nexus 5 was boss.

I forgot this even existed. I had the HTC One and/or Galaxy S4 around this time.

Loved my HTC One

Rad! I just threw ubuntu touch on my nexus 6p... Far from perfect, but a great premise of a new era!

I also got one (not sure which model) to play around with.

It was... okay. It very much felt like an alpha release. Lots of features were broken or simply missing.

I should have it in a drawer somewhere

I wish so much that there was a solid Linux phone that was just as viable as any android-based device.

There are some options, but nothing that just works.

I usually buy last year's pixel model when they go on sale around end of year. prefer to use my desktop as eyes aren't great at skimming tiny text. on a 6a which should last until next year. could get by with much less

The 6A is the worst phone I've ever had. It never gets a good signal and barely lasts a day of battery. I bought it new.

So sad it didn't take off, I would love to have an alternative to Android or iOS right now

I recently flexed on some nerds when I whipped out my Zaurus

Based. Do you have a picture?

How was Firefox OS on the Nexus 5?

As far as I remember much more fluid to use but still riddled with all the bugs.

Yh boi

I remember emulating it on my desktop.

I miss my nexus 6 shamu. I think that phone was the best that Google ever made even to this day.

I still have mine in a drawer. Sure newer phones are taller but that thing was fucken WIDE. It felt more like a small tablet. I don't know if it's right to say that Google made it though; really it was made by Motorola
- Same here; I've got mine in a box along with my Pixel XL, Nexus 5, and Moto X (which feels like a tiny Nexus 6). I tried the Nexus 6 for a few hours about a year ago, and it was still surprisingly snappy. I have a Note 20 Ultra for my daily driver, and it still feels small compared to the girth of the Nexus 6. I feel like I could possibly use it today, which is one of the reasons I keep it around, in case of an emergency.
My Nexus 6 was the worst phone I've ever had. It aged like milk. It was so bad I jumped off Google phones and never went back. Getting the OnePlus 3T was like breathing fresh air again.

Edit: had the Nexus S and Nexus 4 before the 6, loved those phones... So jumping off Nexus was no small matter.
- I've had android phones since the G1. The Nexus One was pretty freaking sweet, but my favorite phone of all time was either the Nexus S or the Nexus 5x. The curved screen on the S was great and it fit into the back pocket of my pants "like a glove".

I remember this, we had one phone in our country with it, but it was such a terrible phone. And now FirefoxOS is KaiOS....

I have a KaiOS phone made by Nokia. As a functional phone, it’s ok only if you just make calls or texts.
- I also have a KaiOS phone, to have a dumb phone with Whatsapp. Did you come from the /r/dumbphones community too? ;-)

I always thought those were really cool! I used to have the launcher they made for Android on my old Droid Turbo, and it was pretty cool! Then it stopped working when I got a new phone with a newer version of Android.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Seemed like a silly endeavor by Mozilla.