Wut? Was he talking about the previous Ukrainian government, sponsored by Russia™? I can't make sense of what he is saying, actually.
I had to reread it a few times myself, but I'm pretty sure that's what he's talkin about
Because everyone knows Russia is well known for their totally legit free and fair elections/s
Dude doesn't know about Euromaidan. I wish some of these children would go to russia.
They like the idea of Russia, not actual Russia.
They believe euromaden was a western sponsored coup, the beginning of the end of Ukraine's independence and the forced deportation of the nation from their Slavic brethren
Yogthos is the kind of piece of shit that "critically supports" bombing Ukrainian kindergartens and maternity wards as long as, somewhere in the world, at least one Western tear is shed over it. Blocking them makes the fediverse far less unpleasant.
One of the best decisions I've made
Wonder why that user account is above the rules of the instance and its communities. The modlog is full of examples which should apply to their behavior as well
Lemmy.ml has banned him a couple of times for short periods though. Lemmygrad.ml is obviously perfectly ok with everything he's saying. Some instances (such as the one I'm using) have also blocked him permanently.
I dont get how tankies can support a "communist" nation like China that has an investor class and whose system requires the mistreatment of the proletariat.
Because they don't support communism. They just like one version of ogliarchy better than the other.
They're authoritarians not communists ie. the ole schtick.
They're just more people who've fallen victim to a well-funded propaganda campaign. Not much different than trumpets—in fact, they share many talking points! Amusingly, both groups would be offended by the comparison.
Don't worry, someone will be along shortly to recommend 2000 pages of communist literature that wouldn't even prove their point even if you read it all.
"Because they'll eventually take away their wealth or kill them" is an argument I've actually seen on .ml. I'm not against the sentiment of getting rid of the capitalists but cmon, when someone says China isn't socialist and points at a clearly capitalist behavior you can't be "it's still socialist because the capitalist thing will be fixed in the future". Then every country might as well be socialist, we'll just fix capitalism at some later date.
The "Party" sits above the "Money" in their power structure, unlike most of the Capitalist countries nowadays were (after 4 decades of Neoliberalism) Money is a power above that of the State (and remember, the State is what the voters supposedly control in Democracy, so that means that Money is a higher power than Democracy, which is why many have pointed out that countries like the US are Oligarchies not Democracies).
And, for reference, in Fascism too (or, in fact, all other Autocratic systems) the State sits above Money, so I'm hardly saying that by itself that is enough to make that system good
The real hypocrisy of tankies, IMHO, is that the "Communist" nations they support in a tribalist way still have elites, they're just not chosen via Money but instead via ability of climbing up the Party ranks (so Cronyism and Sociopathy) whilst genuine Leftwing thinking is about Equality, the very opposite of there being people who get privileged treatment for any reason other than need (that reason being money as in Capitalist system or something else is quite irrelevant in Leftwing thinking)
If you just see them as tribalists wedded to an ideology shaped by a specific kind of elites who use a specific kind of slogans around Equality to support the continuation of the structure that maintains their elite privileges, (which is parallel to what's done in Capitalism which similarly has the whole bullshit about how wealth is the product of merit to justify discrimination based on wealth) you can understand why tankies would think what they do about China.
They're still mindless simpleton tribalists, but it's interesting to understand how using as foundation for ones own judgement an ideology controlled by somebody else without doing at the very least some analysing of it just as easily yields a tankie, a Fascist or a (Neo)liberal depending on which ideological bundle of slogans they've unquestioningly adopted.
Brainrot. That's how. Some people just aren't very resilient to propaganda. Actually... Huge numbers of people aren't.
Huh. And here I thought Yogthos was a Chinese plant. Turns out they like the taste of Russian leather just the same.
Frankly I suspect many pinch hit for both teams.
Average Yogthos verbal vomit.
Ah yes, the famously communist Russian Federation. The RF is nakedly an imperial fascist regime that doesn't even have communist window dressing, it boggles the mind that self-proclaimed communists and anti-imperialists support them.
RF is a Cult of personality, pretending to be a Mafia, pretending to be an empire. pretending to be a gas station masquerading as a state.
Careful you'll get banned from .ml for saying that... :)-
It almost feels like posting yogthos is cheating
Yogthos drank the vatnik koolaid.
The best part is that he is a very well paid software engineer living in ThE WeSt.
Couldn't be more of a hypocrite if he fuckin' tried.
Yogthos is either a fully paid professional propagandist or a highly skilled amateur. Probably the latter.
I'd call him(?) the single worst person of lemmy for the reason that every time he speaks of things that have nothing to do with politics, he seems like an absolutely cool dude. I remember even that in the first weeks of Russia's aggression on Ukraine, he was being kinda somber and realistic about it. But then The Message somehow reached him and he started spouting Russia's propaganda at full blast. He's clearly intelligent and literate while doing this, which is just doubly sad.
In him, Communism has completely ruined a perfectly good person, and it's a tragedy every time it happens.
Oh that guy. He spends all day on Lenny pushing pro-Russia and pro-Chinese propaganda. It’s probably his job. I’ve asked him to hook me up with extra work, but no leads yet.
I blocked the cunt very early on. Still looking forward to being able to do *@lemmy.ml and get all of them.
Lmao, it's yogthos. Canada's most notorious freedom fighter lmao.
/s.
That dip couldn't find the freedom he is "fighting" for if Marx drew him a map with directions.
Yeah, the reason he's so happy about everything Russia does is that he's a software engineer with over a decade of experience living in Canada, he's living the cozy life and literally never going back to Russia because he's way too soft for that at this point.
That particular post also got me banned from the community. I said something to the tune that I'll agree with the state department on China, North Korea and Russia/Ukraine, but disagree on Cuba and Israel/Palestine, which probably makes me more of a leftist than all those dictator simping tankies. Someone did not like me pointing that out.
You ever point out to those people that Russia and China are very much NOT communist countries nowadays and people only simp for them because it's opposition to American global hegemony... Yeah you'll just get banned. I've been banned from .ml memes AND hexbear memes communities by now.
Yogthos is always here to provide the shittiest of takes and the most phallical of fallacies.
Yogthos is a clown
I honestly can't tell if these .ml guys in these discussions are trolling or just spouting retarded nonsense and calling everyone a Nazi for the sake of it
Hey, no judgement, but we're trying to cut down use of the r-term around here, as a courtesy to those who it's been used to unfairly hurt. Just for future reference.
I wonder how many of them work in russia and china. their shittakes are hilariously tanky
I kind of wish they are trolling and we're dumb for taking the bait. I mean it's unlikely as I've met true believers (both Nazi and tanky) before IRL and these people sound exactly the same, but who knows.
For those who like me can't read the original meme text:
"Leftists" whose political opinions on China, DPR Korea, Cuba, Israel, and Ukraine mirror the U.S. State Department's position
And then the face the person is seeing in the mirror is a clown.
I wouldn't have even tried to engage on the China / N Korea / Ukraine side of the analogy. The other one is a lot more absurd. I don't think there is any non-trivial number of "leftists" on Lemmy who think that Israel "has a right to defend herself" and deserves tons of weapons, or that Cuba is a terrorist state.
Israel “has a right to defend herself”
It does but what it does far exceeds legitimate defence. And what it does also isn't building Zionism because antagonising people goes directly against the goal of creating a place for Jews to live in peace and prosperity.
I gave up on it when the fucker killed Rabin and it's been a constant slide into full-on fascism since then, as in, fascist modes of thinking captured more and more of Israeli politics to the point where even the left is largely cooked. They may disavow what Amir did but they still share his outlook towards "security". They may not be actively genocidal but still support "antagonise until Palestinians give up". The situation is fucked in pretty much every way that a situation can possibly be fucked.
Fully agreed. If it wasn't clear from my quotation marks, I think Israel is now actively exterminating a civilian population, after pursuing a policy of slow extermination spanning back for decades, with the goal of eventually eradicating the state and people of Palestine completely. And that policy of slow extermination led to the atrocities of October 7th as an absolutely predictable consequence. I put quotes around "defend herself" because that's how the State Department talks about it, but nothing Israel is doing right now makes any sense in that context or any other aside from exterminating Palestinians as fast as they can get away with. Netanyahu refusing to say if he agrees to the current latest cease-fire in exchange for getting all the hostages back before they're all dead, is just yet another prime example from today.
He doesn't want the hostages back. He wants to kill Palestinians, and if them having hostages makes that easier, then he's in favor of them keeping the hostages. I don't know why anyone who writes about geopolitics buys into the ludicrous framework of it being any other way, let alone this fantasy of "defend herself." I get why the State Department says that. They're lying on purpose to accomplish their goals. What the newspapers are doing when they say it, I couldn't tell you.
Could you elaborate on Cuban or Cuban-sponsored terrorism? I mostly agree with the US positions on these except for Cuba and maybe Israel. I also don't know Cuba that well. I know that some Cuban protests are suppressed, but I'm pretty sure that's not what terrorism means.
The US has been saying since the 80s that Cuba is a sponsor of state terrorism. I think it's mostly made up because they're communist and we don't like them. I think maybe Castro did a little bit of what when we do it is called "covert ops," but I'm not aware of Cuba being any kind of major sponsor of terrorism, in the same way that Saudi Arabia or Israel is, for example.
The State Department has some very minor legitimate beef with modern-day Cuba because they suppressed some protests, yes, and put a few hundred people in prison more or less for being the opposition. Every so often they do minor dictator stuff like that which we officially tut-tut at them for. On the whole, though, our beef with Cuba is just because nobody's forgotten the days when Che Guevara was public enemy number one, and Cuba got away with being on his side, and for no other reason that's more logical than that one.
Lmaooo these dingos think Kim jong un will holler at them if they suck his e-weiner enough
Pooh doesn't have a penis, he's been pantsless for like a hundred years I think someone would see it by now.
I saw this and it was the trigger I needed to finally block that community. I'm still trying to figure out how to block .ml entirely.
I'm still trying to figure out how to block .ml entirely.
I think this only becomes available to you if your instance is on a certain version.
But we shouldn't just do instance blocks, that's just ignoring the problem. We should all be on the lookout for this kinda BS so we can screenshot, compile and eventually petition our respective instance admins to defederate.
As well as cross-posting any good material you come across from a .ml comm to any other non-.ml comm
Lmao, I blocked him so long ago I forgot about his existence. Now look what you brought there, a forgottenone!
Least idiotic .ml user
Kremlin talking points that was thoroughly debunked in 2022 but here we are...
My favorite theory is Putin interfered to have Zelenskyy elected as a sort of lame-dog. Only for him to become the badass we know and love.
dude talks about not having free and fair elections, supports best korea.
Im still learning Lemmy, but for once it finally sent me to a place thats cool.
hello fellow vatnik tankie red-nazi z-gonk dunkers.
One of us! One of us! One of us!
Look at the profile pic lol
"CCCP" (aka: USSR)
totally not biased
Marx would have liked and shared nafo memes guys
Lol, overthrows the government to be run by the exact same government.
The mental gymnastics are ridiculous.
At least they low key admits China&DPRK are under dictatorship, a quality hard to find from .ml user
You're both right.
Heh, he is pretty accurate in this =)
This war has nothing to do with any people's right to self determination. It is a clash between two imperialist powers. Russia's actions are criminal and cruel and it needs to be stopped. The same goes for China and even more so the DPRK. But the fastest way to do so is to end the war asap. Just because one imperialism is less atrocious doesn't mean it should be a permissible leftist policy to support imperialism. That's what the socdems did in Europe in 1914, and it cost the working class a golden opportunity to revolt. In an imperialist war, the left should always want their own bourgeois state to lose, because it weakens it and makes it easier to topple. On neither side is it the ruling class that is suffering and dying - it's working class people with their views clouded by nationalism, propaganda, and the promise of money or freedom from prison.
What Karl Liebknecht said over 100 years ago has lost nothing of its truth - The main enemy is at home.
In an imperialist war, the left should always want their own bourgeois state to lose, because it weakens it and makes it easier to topple.
Ah, so Poland should have craved defeat when invaded by Nazi Germany?
That's the true proletarian view, right?
So you support full scale mobilisation of NATO to match on Moscow right? That'd end the war right quick.
Unfortunately it does seem increasingly like the Ukraine government has used the war as an excuse to tighten its grip on power and tamp down on democracy. I hope these changes can be reversed but I’m not overly optimistic.
That doesn’t mean a Russian puppet government would be any better though.
To be fair, it is hard to hold a proper democratic election with part of a country occupied. Either you hold an election in which people in those areas cant vote and while risking division during a time of crisis, or you dont hold an election and in doing so risk democratic backsliding. Im not really sure that there's a good answer to that situation
I disagree. Ukraine does not have direct control over those territories. So it does not seem a major issue that people there cannot vote for a government that does not govern them.
If Ukraine is able to retake these territories then they can allow people to vote in the next election. If Ukraine retains or expands its democratic ideals then it would only be a short period where they would be controlled by a government they did not vote for.
I could see a case for postponing elections if the country was in such a total state of disarray that it was not practical to hold them. But it’s clear that this is not the case outside of the eastern front lines and occupied territories.
How has it tightened its grip on power? I'm genuinely asking, I don't know.
Lincoln did the same thing, for what it's worth, arresting people who published secessionist newspapers and detaining civilians without due process who he said were "dangerous to the public safety." What he said about it was that, in war people get murdered on a massive scale, property gets stolen, cities burn, all the rules go out the window. If that's what we're doing, we might as well do it and try to win.
“Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted, and the Government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated? Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken if the Government should be overthrown when it was believed that disregarding the single law would tend to preserve it?”
I'm not saying I agree as pertains to Ukraine. Like I said I really don't know what has been happening with them. Ukraine has famously had a pretty corrupt government as all the post-Soviet states tended to do, and I am in favor of the upsetting story of them trying to replace it with something decent, all the while at the mercy of massive powers on all sides which don't have their best interests at heart.
Canceled elections and tamping down freedom of speech: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/18/world/europe/ukraine-press-freedom.html
War obviously poses challenges and some changes may be necessary but Lincoln did hold elections during the civil war and I believe it is perhaps the most important time for people’s voices to be heard, despite the challenges. The war is primarily confined to eastern Ukraine so I see no practical reason elections could not be held. Other than that they may not be in the interests of ruling powers.
Power always corrupts and wartime powers are no different.
