Trump rages at Biden for wrecking his plans for executions: ‘Makes no sense’

imagine running on "the deficit" and then whining that you can't spend millions to let the state kill someone.

The State should not be allowed to punish someone by killing them. Capital punishment is merely revenge with the government acting as the hitman. There’s no way to prevent an innocent person from being accidentally murdered. And those 40 people are proof that it doesn’t act as an effective deterrent.

It’s a barbaric practice and we need to end it.

99% of the time yes but the Hitler fact. Assad, Putin, etc. Actual large scale crimes against humanity
- There is an adage that says "Hard cases make bad law". In the end is a case of, what is preferred, let a guilt person go unpunished or punish an innocent person? I personally believe that it is never ok to punish an innocent person. And I think it is not even that extreme when we are talking about capital punishment or be "tough on crime", it is more like, do um prefer to under punish some guilt people or over punish others including some innocents?
Yes and No.

I agree completely in a fallible system these executions ought never exist.

However creating a framework of rules with outcomes and holding all accountable to them is the most morally / ethically benign thing we do as humans.

The state is the only ethical executor of these decisions.

BUT the system is fallible and made up of fallible people and isn’t always steered for the moral / ethical and as such your last sentence is even more truthful than even you meant it.
- I don't think one should be executed if their moral framework doesn't align with the laws created by the state.
  
  I understand why we can't do this today, but I would much prefer the exile method to execution.

We could have had colosseum executions where inmates fight to the death, hosted by Dana White and the UFC. But no, old man Biden has to ruin the fun.

I kind of wonder if Biden is setting him up to execute Luigi and get on the wrong side of this current populist movement.

even if he does get convicted, any execution probably won't happen in the next four years. death row appeals take a long time.
~~The fed has nothing to do with that. He's being charged by the state of NY.~~ TIL they added on a few federal charges.
- He is also being charged federally. And that is the capital case.

His incompetence killed hundreds of thousands his first term. This time he was hoping for a more direct approach. Biden spoiled his murderous fun.

I don't think the government should have the power to kill people as a punishment, with that said I'm also not upset that the sentences of these three weren't commuted.

I don't understand the reasoning. you can't say you are anti death penalty and believe in dignity and sanctity of life or whatever but then turn around and say "except for these three motherfuckers"...
- I don't think the government should be able to execute them. However, I am human, they're mass murders, and it's a situation I have no control over, so I'm not going to feel bad about not feeling bad that they're still on death row. I don't get to choose how I feel, just how I act. If it were me making the decision, I'd like to think I'd have commuted their sentences as well, even though I probably would have felt bad about doing so.
  
  Although also, thinking about your comment more, I guess I don't really care about sanctity of life or anything like that. It's more of a power problem for me. Some people deserve to be killed, however nobody should be making that judgement and following through, because it's not something that can be accurately judged. No one should have that power, especially the people in charge. When someone dies who I feel deserves it, it not going to upset me. Would I have killed them? No. Would I have prevented their death if I could? Honestly, questionable, depending on the person and situation. Is that hypocritical? I don't know, maybe. There might not be an effective difference, killing through inaction vs killing through action, but there feels like a difference to me. Life isn't black and white, I'm driven by a malfunctioning blob of meat, and I do the best I can. I take great comfort in the fact I'm never going to have to make that choice. I hope this gives you some insight into how I view things.
Yeah, it seems weird that a government of a country that one is a citizen of can choose to have you killed. But assisted suicide is illegal.

Good conservative Christian’s LOVE killing!

Nothing says "pro life" like whining about not being able to murder someone.
- Nothing shouts "Christian" than revenge murder.

I know of onlt one western country with death penalty: Belarus. And I'm pretty sure as soon as potato dictator dies, it will be abolished.

Provided that microdick Vlad doesn't pull a Ukraine on the country for trying to have democracy, and entering the EU and NATO

Biden: Grants clemency indiscriminately for 1,500 people Public: Why did you let the Cash for Kids woman free Biden: Commutes death sentences selectively Public: Who made you judge, jury and executioner?

Biden: Grants clemency indiscriminately for 1,500 people indiscriminately Media: Why did you let the Cash for Kids woman free Biden: Commutes death sentences selectively Media: Who made you judge, jury and executioner?

FIFY... Real people honestly wouldn't care about any of this if the media wasn't trying to inspire outrage.
- I think it's the opposite. The public opinion has turned on him and so everything he does is critiqued. It's nudge on by the media but is also the cycle of celebrities du jour

When you hear the acts of each, you won’t believe that he did this. Makes no sense. Relatives and friends are further devastated. They can’t believe this is happening.

That's because like Trump, those people don't understand justice, they only understand revenge. Trump thinks literally everyone is a horrendous person who wants to wantonly murder others just like him. Control over whether someone lives or dies is the ultimate control, and the one Trump craves most. It's super clear why this is so upsetting to him, he got his favorite type of domination and control taken away. His toys.

Remember that Trump said that "Relatives and friends are further devastated. They can’t believe this is happening." Without source, and can be dismissed as something he made up on the spot. The families of the victims are a mixture of reactions some are in support some opposed and some can't be found for comment.
Justice is a feeling. It's not a factual thing. You can't scientifically deduce whether justice has been served or not in a specific case.

Some people think eye for an eye is justice, some have other ideas of what justice is.
- Yeah which is why we have legal guardrails - to protect us from folks who think “eye for an eye” is a sane way to operate in the 21st century. They can have their opinion, but I sure don’t want them setting what is legal.
- Check out restorative justice models. One in Colorado has boasted 95% victim satisfaction and recidivism crashed from 50 down to like 10%. We can use this data to demonstrate what justice models are better, regardless of a definitive definition.
- Some people think the earth is flat - that doesn't mean it is.
  
  Justice is a pretty nebulous abstract thing, I agree with that, but modern society has a pretty clear understanding that retribution isn't Justice.
- That's why some people don't get control over what happens to the convicted. We do know our justice system isnt perfect and makes more mastakes than what even the most rational person would find unacceptable. There is no going back once the state murders someone. And unless we have equal punishment for whomever caused a innocent person to be executed by the state. It should be outlawed in all cases.

While I'm overall glad about this, leaving 3 unpardoned inmates really corrupts the "moral stance against federal executions" justification and makes it seem like he is in favor of capital punishment but only for people he thinks deserve it. It also makes it seem like he believes it's his decision to decide who gets to live and that rubs me the wrong way.

Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits. It may take Hitler-level atrocities to get there, or maybe even worse. But everyone has their own line in the sand where even they will say "If there was ever a case in favor of the death penalty, this is that case." That line is in a completely different place for everybody.

It also makes it seem like he believes it’s his decision to decide who gets to live and that rubs me the wrong way.

Since the President has final pardon power, he actually does get to decide who gets to live. It's a power granted to him by the Constitution.
- Yep I'm anti-death penalty, the 3 that didn't get pardoned should probably just live the rest of their lives in prison. But I'm not going to shed any tears for them.
- I understand that and, if you ask me, those 3 guys are pos. My problem is that he said he did it to take a moral stance against death penalty. You can't do that and go "except for these 3 cases".
- Nope. The most die hard, anti death penalty believer has no limits and literally says "we do not have the right to take anyone's life, even if they are Hitler. In fact it would be better for society if we got to try to rehabilitate Hitler".
  And I agree with them.
- I have no such limits. Death, as a penalty, is always unjust because humans do not have free will. Every action, every thought, has some biological, or neurochemical, or material basis for it's happening. Inflicting any form of punishment or suffering on the qualia, the conscious experience of someone, for the illusion of choice we believe to have, is actually just inflicting suffering on innocent beings, because we have no choice.
  
  Now, that's not too say I'm anti-violence. But I firmly believe that every piece of violence should be evaluated as if it was being done against an innocent person. Things like "guilt" or "they deserve it" should not be taken into the calculation when doing violence at all, only the benefits it has to the rest of society. If you are in the position to levy death as a punishment, I would rather just see them locked up for life.
- Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits.
  
  I'd love a source for this. Personally, I don't think we should be in the business of killing defenseless people in any context.
The only thing that I can come to the conclusion is that two of the three are neo-nazis.

He could be sending a message, and that's what Trump is actually pissed about.

The Boston bomber I can't justify with that same line of thinking though.

Executions are barbaric, plus life in prison is far more cruel anyway.
- He could be sending a message, and that's what Trump is actually pissed about.
  
  That actually makes sense.
A world leader like the president is deciding on deaths every single day. You are right to think it's unsavory, but it certainly isn't unique to this pardoning.
- That may be true but singling out 3 people who are currently harmless and saying "you get to die" feels somehow different.
well, regardless whether he or anyone believes it or not, it quite literally was his decision to make
Devil's advocate: do the last 3 deserve it? Are they unsafe to other inmates and also not possible candidates for rehabilitation and release to society?

If yes... Welp.
- That's the point of taking a "moral stance against federal executions", though — nobody deserves it.

People forgetting Biden is Catholic, and Catholicism is pretty anti-death penalty.

Tell that to my Catholic trumper parents.
- I know it won't make a difference to them (who're the cafeteria Catholics, now?) but it is an official part of the catechism.
Yes. Also, pardoning your sex-crazed drug addict son is very Catholic. As is pathological lying (claiming to lose his son in Iraq when he actually died of a glioblastoma in 2015, or claiming to have formed the QUAD when in actuality it was Trump who formed it; the list goes on). Also, sniffing a young girl's hair on national television is very Catholic (this last one is actually semi-serious).

Joking aside, if you think Biden is acting out of any religious sincerity, you clearly don't understand much about politicians. They're all carpet baggers. They'll say whatever they have to say to get the Christian/Catholic or Jewish vote etc.

Is trump cryingon social media about how he doesn't get to kill 37 people on Christmas eve ?

Nice move by sleepy joe i guess

Yes, but both sides.
- Well, Kamala had that laugh, so....
- "The economy!"
  
  -People who spent $41 billion three weeks later.
Santa told him he was getting an inmate to put to death in exchange for every single one of his felonies. Sorry I mean Satan told him.

Anyway he's pissed that he got coal instead.

Good. The more he cries the better

In theory, the death penalty makes some sense. It's a right the government reserves for itself (violence) and I think in some contexts it makes sense to be on the table. In practice, it's more expensive than a life sentence, and it's a blunt and racist tool to maintain unjust social and state power.

I wish every governor and president commuted 95% of death penalty situations. It's a major injustice that most executions were carried out, even for those who belief it's something the government should be doing.

I don’t get it. The death penalty doesn’t seem to deter people from committing heinous crimes. The practice seems more for the families who want closure, but morally we should be above killing unnecessarily. Whether someone is jailed for life in solitary or sentenced to death does not change the fact that they will never be able to harm another member of society.

And don’t get me wrong, if someone kills a loved one I will want them dead, but my emotions should not drive taxpayer funded punishment.
- Putting aside some of the practical issues for a moment...
  
  that legal process makes executions more expensive than a life sentenc
  
  it's a tremendous power for governments to have and rife for corruption or making permanent mistakes.
  
  Why should society be obligated to suppord, and securely house people who should never be allowed back into society?
Also, you're very hardly ever 100% sure someone deserves to die. It's morally much better to not kill just in case - and there's been tons of cases where new evidence, like DNA, has exonerated convicted prisoners. You might be keeping someone fed and warm who didn't deserve it, but personally I'd rather err on the side of humanity.
- Like Gandalf said,
  "Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
Maybe instead we could put those resources towards restoring the lives of the victims instead of the punishment of the sentenced?

A punitive system leaves the victims out cold where the only solace they can hope for is that the person responsible is punished appropriately.

A better one might provide mental/physical healthcare, social support, and an option for a direct role in the reconciliation process for the victim and their immediate family/household.

I just don't see how "justice" can be achieved when everyone has paid in and all we get for it is someone locked in a cell or murdered while the people they wronged haven't seen an ounce of support.

Pretty clear donvict knows his qon "pro-life" fanbase is bloodthirsty, and they demand sacrifices.

Yea, this group largely believes an execution sends them to hell sooner to suffer more. As someone who isn't religious, I'd rather they waste away in jail, as that is much more a punishment than a quick death.
- Prison should be rehabilatative, not punitive

It's odd when you think about it. Republicans don't want abortion but whole heartedly support executions. Democrats are against executions but whole heartedly support abortion. Welcome to America.

Conservatives aren't anti-murder, they are pro-suffering.
They are anti-abortion, because they don't ever get a chance to make the fetus suffer. And golly, the mother barely gets dehumanized at all.
Just think about all the in suffering that fetus skipped by not getting a disease that is easily preventable with a vaccination, and also, it will never know the hell of getting sick from drinking raw milk.
It's more odd to me that the ones who believe in original sin and forgiveness for everything are the ones anti-abortion and pro-execution.
What sits particularly strange to me is democrats that are against capital execution, but for vigilante killings. Any argument to be made against capital execution is a hundredfold true for vigilante execution.
- Class comrades are class comrades.
  
  If you really don't understand why, then I would point you to a quote from Warren Buffet.
  
  "There's class war alright and it's my class, the rich, that are waging the war and winning it."
  
  Now class apologists will claim that WB was trying to foster class solidarity, but that fails to hold water under the scrutiny of his actions. Since, quite literally, the moment that he heard that one of his granddaughters had the temerity to give an interview to one of the Johnson & Johnson kids, he disowned her and hasn't allowed her back in the last ≈ decade and a half, which seems to have had the desired effect since he has another dozen and a half children and grandchildren, and no one in that family has appeared on camera critical of the system since then.
  
  Source: The 1% documentary by said J&J heir
  
  Edit: Happy Holidays everyone. Remember that the good that you do for your local communities will spread farther than you'll ever know.
- No, one is the state abusing it's power vs an individual who may or may not be guilty.
  
  The other is an individual risking their life against hostis humani generis -- ie, a brave hero.
  
  The vigilante in order to retain support has a much much much higher burden of proof than the state. The state has many opportunities to kill a man, but the vigilante must only attack those who are both obviously evil and obviously out of reach of the law.
  
  Luigi is popular because he met this burden of proof. If he had killed Jay-Z, or even P Diddy, it would not have been popular. After all, the law caught up with them. Before damage was done, no, our system isn't designed to help people, but it did catch up. In contrast, matt gaetz is obviously evil, obviously outside of the law, and therefore an enemy of all mankind. Im not gonna do it, but I would applaud anyone willing to put their life on the line to take his.

Neither Orwell nor Bradbury nor Vonnegut could have come up with anything so bizarre and upside down as to have a complete criminal and felon pretend that he cares about law and order.

The delusion in this thread is hilarious.

Also, yes we should kill inmates who commit certain crimes if they meet a certain burden of proof. The service done to society by killing off these fools far outweighs the costs incurred should a few innocent lives be taken in the process.

Funny how .world mods enforced 'no calling for killing of innocent people' when everyone was cheering on CEOs getting dropped. But when 'edgy' pieces of shit like this ghoul say "innocent lives? Whatever, the benefits outweigh the costs regardless", it just stands. I guess the explanation that the servers are in Holland where it's illegal to say innocent people should be killed, just means illegal when innocent=CEO.
- you can't be serious, can you? lol
When one finds oneself advocating for a contentious position—particularly one with irreversible consequences—without having engaged in rigorous intellectual due diligence, it becomes imperative to pause and examine the foundations of that conviction. The casual acceptance of collateral damage in matters of state-sanctioned execution suggests an intellectual framework built more on intuition than careful ethical reasoning.
- Even if you were right, intuition doesn't preclude correctness.
how are you gonna condemn someone for killing by killing them?
- This isn't the banger you think it is.
Then let your innocent life be the first victim
- fine by me.
<citation needed>
- This is kinda bad faith as the overwhelming bulk of statistical and economic literature on the matter makes it clear how terribly expensive incarceration is.
  
  Execution does end the money drain BUT our method of doing so necessarily makes it stupid expensive.
  
  The best thing we could do for the thing the person is raging about is stop the for profit incarceration system, remove the death penalty entirely and work on a reform system.

One of the three he didn't pardon was Dylann Roof. I thought they fried his ass already, had no idea he was still alive.

I did wonder why the three that weren't spared were left to die.. and I still kinda do.

Also I'm kinda surprised Trump didn't pardon Dylann Roof.

It answers this question in the article -- didn't pardon mass murderers
- Did no such thing, simply stated who the three that didn't get commuted were, nothing about why they didn't get it.
It's because the entire party got justifiably shellacked in the press and court of public opinion for pardoning one of the kids for cash judges. This happened where I live and I remember the outrage over the absurdly light sentences they recieved to begin with, clemency on top was just too much for many of us to stomach.

Some people really don't deserve second chance or eleventh hour stay.
Because the media now mostly mentions the three bastards who didn't have their sentences commuted, instead of the 37 that did. Changes the focus. Now people agree with Biden not to commute these sentences, and don't think much more about the ones that were commuted.
- I guess, continued explanations of why the politics are failing in America. Average citizen, "ok he pardoned more than his son, great. Oh he believes in the dignity of human life (strange way to put it but ok). He decided to leave 3 to die? Umm ok."
  
  It's the same shtick with the "build back america greater" infrastructure bill. It all sounds great for the media till you actually scrutinize it. "Oh you're wanting to spend how much on highspeed rail? Great! Oh, it's all going to a shady company that has the countries worse rail record and has been lining everyone's pockets financially but running a deficit since operation? umm ok?"
- Apparently I misunderstood the above

Wonder what trump is doing with dylan roof?

Execute? But its his kkk compatriot.

Not execute? But then he looks weak for walking back on his bloodthirsty executioner statements.

Honestly I'm legitimately surprised he didn't pardon him and give him a freaking medal, then bring Rittenhouse in so he and Roof can argue about whether it's more redpilled to kill Pro BLM white protesters for being "race traitors" or actual black people for.. being black people.
- Maybe trump thinks: "Kill count too low, pathetic"
  
  🤔
  
  I mean, he was president during jan 6 and didnt even pardon them

View these through the lens of each politician acting in their personal self-interest (which both of them have thoroughly demonstrated to be their only priority). What do they care one way or the other? This is political theater where they're playing with the lives of the people in question.

Yes, I also agree that the president that commuted many death sentences is exactly the same as the president wanting to execute all of the prisoners
- No, you're right, fuck me for saying that thing that I didn't even say. Your made-the-fuck-up interpretation of my comment disproves anything I have to say. This is a really healthy discourse we're having and it's not a glaring red flag that you're so completely full of shit that you can't even have a conversation with the person in front of you, you have to invent a fictional version of them to argue with.

He still has one shot! No, sorry, I mean he has 3 shots remaining!

He could do the George Carling thing... Upside down nailed to the cross and or launched from a Canon point blank on to a very thick concrete wall. And televise it.

Its just a suggesting to make the best of things.

I can't help but wonder if this is an assignment to "clear the wait list" for if/when Mangione gets convicted? I don't quite understand the system but it seems many people on death row spend so many years waiting for the bureaucratic processes to complete before their lives are taken.

The processes that need to complete have very little to do with other death row inmates, so this doesn't particularly make much sense.

Death penalty cases ostensibly get the most "due process", as you would expect, and the time is spent in appeals etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a barbaric system, we handle it terribly, and I'd say we routinely execute innocent people. But I can't think of any way this clemency will help them kill Mangione much more quickly.
- Thank you for educating a non-American
It's not a FIFO waiting list.

AI slop image

It’s a photo from the White House photographer from Agence France-Presse. What evidence do you have that it’s AI? That’s a pretty strong accusation against someone whose living comes from photography.
- these where what caught my eye:
  
  The blue of the rug seemed to be leaking into the chair. Biden almost has a double leg or it's out of alignment. And his hair seems to merge with the wallpaper.
  
  And strong accusation? Bruh we live in an era where AI slop is basically the norm. Expect people to assume a very staged looking photo where Trump has the appearance of a shocked baby and Biden looks like the good humor ice cream man to raise hackles. And it's a bummer that their job is under threat, but that doesn't mean I'll lower my guard against AI slop.

Biden: I believe in the dignity of human life, except those three guys. I mean, come on man. I'm just being honest, those guys suck. I respect human life, but them? Ho-wha-ya, I-I, they suck. As your senator, I have made this decision, and Kamala stands by it.

Trump: You know, Biden, Joe Bye-den, Sleepy Joe as I call him. Many other call him Sleepy Joe, very smart people. Kamalala lost, I won. Really, America won, America will be greater under my Administration. We would have been safer too, but Old Sleepy Joe, as I call him, decided he would rather have violent inmates live instead of saving the taxpayers millions of dollars and stop giving them socialized medicine and socialized housing, he wants more of that. You know, he wants to spend our country into poverty while letting millions of illegals, many of whom are criminals, just like those 37 terrible people, and the three Joe loved so much to spare, Hunter Biden, and of course the media filled with liars and terrible nasty people. He wants to ruin America every last second he has. But don't worry, there will be executions, many more, some would say too many, but I disagree. I spoke with experts in executions, very smart men, some women, if you could believe that, and they told me that we could execute many times more people than any president in history. I asked them how we could do that, how would that be possible, they told me about the concept for a plan to execute millions. I asked them, "millions?", they told me "Easily". Those very smart experts said we could easily execute millions, and I believe them. So we are going to make America great again and Sleepy Joe won't be able to do anything about that come January, when my administration, the best Administration, some will say it will be the best Administration ever, takes control and implements a comprehensive plan to deal with the boarder crisis and make America great again.

We could have had Bernie...

If he'd won a primary, sure. But he didn't. Sanders still had a massive impact despite his "supporters" attacking his party and by extension him. Because they don't understand how politics work. This isn't an endorsement of how politics currently work. Just pointing out that you can't change how it works without understanding how it works in the first place. Something which Sanders knew very well. But his supporters have no concept of. Just being pissy and angry in his name working against him. But not at his request.
lol. I can’t tell if this is an amazing use of ChatGPT or what; but you’ve got trump’s voice down pat. It is scary that that it feels so dead on.
- I despise the prevalent use of LLM. That is all off the dome.
- I started reading and then stopped to Google to make sure it wasn't real. 🤣🤣