Benches have been removed for your inconvenience
Benches have been removed for your inconvenience
Stolen from here: https://social.marxist.network/@yogthos/113583918563324620
Let homeless people have benches and public restroom access, it's the absolute bare minimum we can do.
Can we though? Are you thinking of the shareholders at all?!? Someone's going to have a tough time having only 4 holiday homes to choose from... 😬
JUST 4? ARE YOU INSANE?
First of all two of those are under a cold front right now, and one of them is having maintenance done in the West courtyard (noisy from 3pm-3:30pm if you are within 6 bedrooms of it, which I assure you, we won't be) and the fourth one we were just at 2 years ago so it's a little much to vacation there again that soon.
Please think before you speak.
It's the NYC Subway. It's not a company, it's government mass transit. They had big problems with homeless people harassing people and the cops weren't doing much. Ridership was dropping. So they did the only thing they could do.
It sucks, but what do you expect from the subway? A solution to homeless people? It's for getting people to where they want to go, not for being a shelter.
Im thinking what happens if the people that are not homeless sue the city for a lack of areas to sit down? Regular people. Tired people. People just waiting. Disabled people. Elderly. Pregnant. Etc
Then that lawsuit will be paid with tax money, and the new benches will be of hostile design with extra spikes below them just to make sure the homeless won't come. Also they might "feel pressured" to employ a "security" guard that regularly kicks out the homeless in increasingly cruel fashion. For safety reasons, of course.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, only that the current decision makers won't stop to be ass hats. They need their asses kicked.
Tired people don't sue. They are too tired.
We add more benches.
The problem is this only works in areas where the homeless aren't a majority of drug addicts. In North America this is infeasable they will piss and leave syringes everywhere. This just creates avoidable work for the people cleaning out this stuff.
If only we would think of things to help house the homeless, instead of seeing them as a nuisance.
Then you don't want to remove benches. You want, at very least, some kind of shelter system, Supervised Injection Sites, and an adequate social security and healthcare system to support those that are ready to quit their addiction.
Removing the benches from public transport stations just spreads out the problem.
Oh no! You mean the city will have to employ more janitors?!? The horror!!
It's so fucking annoying when people say shit like this as if other countries (even some cities in the US) haven't had this figured out for years at this point. Do like the minimum amount of research.
Totally fucked up and i hope someone in NY with a mobility issue files an ADA complaint with this easy online form
Nice link, too bad it'll probably start 404ing in 2 months :(
As someone who has had to confront homeless people with questionable mental health and/or sobriety; it's fucking hard. You want a safe space for them but then quickly that space becomes unsafe for everyone around. But also... it isn't hard just fucking talk to them. I have many times Don't stop being smart but stop being afraid. Fear of the other breeds so much hate and misery
Oh if it isn't obvious I support benches in public spaces and heavily condemn anti-houseless architecture/city planning
Based on the context, I'm assuming you meant condemn, not condone...
Doublethink is so damn prevalent and cognitive dissonance is heavily encouraged.
It's just impossible to tell anymore.
Absolutely, thank you for the catch!
We have the solution and it's not very hard. Have social workers maintain these areas. It's really not that expensive, employs people, builds important social vibe and allows you to have your benches.
It's a solved problem.
Hey so you know, "condone" is to allow or accept a practice otherwise considered bad or unacceptable which I think is not what you meant here. It sounds like you want to say something like "condemn anti-houseless architecture/city planning" unless I've misinterpreted your meaning.
Thank you for your gentle correction, you got my meaning correct
In months of being homeless and staying at a shelter I really got into it 3 times. Was almost hit by drivers 30+ times. I can't even figure out how to be legitimately angry at homeless people when, for example, there are cars on the road. Being hit and pushed into the road by a dumb bitch on her phone is 100x worse than a screaming match.
I just don't care about "soft" people who have it tough because they need to deal with homeless people occasionally.
Examples: Using crosswalk by bus station when a young woman drives nearly into me, looks up from her phone, no indication of humanity - just staring blankly.
I flipped off / called cops stupid motherfuckers for stopping in the crosswalk forcing me into the main road (I've been nearly hit multiple times walking behind a car in the blind spot.)
I've kicked cars that have cut me off. I'll be using a crosswalk and people who drive seem to be too stupid to make a left and look for people walking. Luckily I never spun myself.
I've dented multiple hoods by slamming my fist into cars / trucks as they fly up the inside and skid into the crosswalk.
I've knocked people's mirrors, although sadly it's hard to break them as they just fold, so you have to really slam them.
This is just traffic. One of the worst things when you're homeless, but it's not the only thing.
It's just so much worse dealing with "normal" people. The system turns us into fucking heartless monsters. A homeless person is much less of a negative force on the world. It's you, it's me who are trash. We're hurting them way more.
Edit: one time I was out early and stepped into the street with a thud. A man across the street gets pissed for stepping on his shoe. Screaming, possibility of a fight... that's what I got from homeless / drug addicts. Much less depressing, degrading, etc. than when you're forced to interact with the homeful.
Just for transparency's sake before I go into this, my wife is second from the top at the library.
The library here really did have to remove benches outside in a couple of places (in part) because of homeless people. Not because they were sleeping on them, there are other places outside the library where the homeless can sleep and the library does what it can to help the local homeless community.
Unfortunately, some (far, far from most) of the local homeless around the library were either very publicly using drugs or getting so fucked up on those drugs (or possibly just having a really bad mental illness episode) that they were harassing people and scaring kids. So when it came time to replace all of the benches since they got too old, they decided that they would not replace some of them.
There was definitely a big outcry about how the library was being anti-homeless, but it was nuts because there were people on the other side still complaining about how the library always stinks because they let the homeless people in there. I may be biased because of my wife, but I'm also a regular patron and I'm pretty much on their side on this one. It was becoming a huge issue and they really didn't want to keep getting the cops involved because they rightfully don't trust what the cops might do with the homeless and only end up calling them as a last resort.
Society has absolutely failed those people though. There is no question about that. But at some point, the library had to draw a line at how accommodating they could be.
the local homeless around the library were either very publicly using drugs
Biggest drug dealers in America - the Sackler family - weren't worth our time to punish. So some guy who washed out on Percocets and can only afford Fentanyl shouldn't have a place to sit.
There was definitely a big outcry about how the library was being anti-homeless, but it was nuts because there were people on the other side still complaining about how the library always stinks because they let the homeless people in there.
In America you have two options -
- pretend homelessness and addiction aren't happening
- destroy public property in a scorched earth campaign against drug use
The very idea of housing, treatment, and rehabilitation is too socialist to consider.
Biggest drug dealers in America - the Sackler family - weren’t worth our time to punish. So some guy who washed out on Percocets and can only afford Fentanyl shouldn’t have a place to sit.
I didn't say being publicly intoxicated, I said publicly using drugs. As in they were shooting up while kids were being taken to storytime past them on the way to the library.
The library allows homeless people to be inside it from open to close. They give them free internet. They give them free help filling out necessary government forms. They hang around just to chat. They allow homeless people to sleep outside all around the building. They are literally building a shower and a washer/dryer facility in the new auxiliary library free for anyone to use.
In America, your local public library does more to help homeless people than anything you have probably done yourself, but I guess since they haven't personally solved the problem, they're the worst of the oppressors.
NIMBY City, USA.
If only they had somewhere to go other than a Library...
Read. They literally still sleep outside the library. The library has not driven them away. They took away benches so that they weren't shooting up in front of toddlers going into the library.
As I told someone else- homeless people can be in the library from open to close. They can sleep on library property. They have free access to all library services including free internet, help accessing all kinds of government aid, and just having someone to talk to them if they're lonely. In another branch, the library is putting in a shower and a washer/dryer for anyone to use for free.
But yes, they took away a few benches because of problem people rather than calling the cops.
What have you done to help the homeless?
One homeless person decides to do drugs in front of the library. I guess we have to remove all the benches and make everything very inconvenient for everyone.
The one person does a thing so we have to take it away rule doesn't apply to people with houses.
"Oh look somebody stabbed somebody to death with a knife. We better take all the knives away from everyone." This would never happen.
What if a homemed person did drugs in the library (which probably happened statistically)? Would you close up the library?
I guess I'm just saying this because you feel like the act was some how moral, I'm telling you it's not. That's okay, real life can be tricky, but don't kid yourself, removing those benches is anti-homeless behavior.
You don't have to take the blame personally for it, just own it. But if you don't admit that you're part of the problem, then that's pretty bad.
One homeless person decides to do drugs in front of the library. I guess we have to remove all the benches and make everything very inconvenient for everyone.
That is not even close to what happened. Why are you just making shit up? Also, see my replies to others about how the library you hate is doing much more than you personally could ever possibly do to help the homeless.
Won't homeless people just sleep on the ground now?
You seem to assume that any logic or reason was used in the decision making that led to this action. But I assure you, as soon as racism, classism, or any other form of bigotry enters the process, any reason left jumps out of the window.
Marvelously constructed.
The bare ground is way colder than a bench, since air is a good thermal insulator.
Homeless people are desperate. They'll sleep outside on the fucking pavement if it has an overhang and nobody bothers them. A place with walls and heating is fucking precious to em.
We all suffer but the already disenfranchised suffer the most. Sounds fair. Or does it?
Right, because homeless people won't just sleep on the floor. Bitch they'll sleep anywhere with a roof where they won't be bothered, let alone a place with walls and basic heating/AC. Filthy liars! Why the fuck is America so hostile towards its citizens and why do they just take it?
where they won't be bothered
so you're saying we need to employ people to specifically bother them. thanks for your suggestion, and please feel free to use our suggestion box if you have more ideas.
Not what I said. That is a logical extrapolation of a measure that would actually target the homeless as opposed to public transit users. An extrapolation you made. Don't strawman me you dishonest asshat!
The best way to fight homeless people is always to prevent their growth, aka making livable/affordable cities. Look at the Netherlands or nordic countries for referee (as almost fucking always...).
Tho that's not what my comment was about, I was just pointing out that this shit clearly targets the average transit user, while barely affecting the homeless. It's unprovoked hostility for no rhyme or reason! People should be fined or lose jobs for this!
Homeless don't feed the capitalist engine.
They kinda do though... The worse it seems to be homeless, the more desperate people will be to keep their job and home.
It's certainly worse for most people, but you couldn't have an American system without it
Homeless people be like, "a'ight I'll sleep on the floor".
Cops be like, "a'ight makes it easier to kick you".
It’s not a train station platform’s job to solve all of society’s problems. During rush hour a train station platform is extremely overcrowded. It’s a serious issue and one of the top reasons people choose to avoid transit, which makes climate change dramatically worse.
Hostile architecture in parks and other open spaces and actual fucking housing is where you should be spending your lobbying effort.
Yeah, and some people want or need to sit.
Yeah, it's the people who own that train station platform! And that's... oh, the government.
Or anywhere. They have the influence, they can use that and their resources to help create real change.
Give them homes and bring back the benches. Problem solved.
Yeah, but what about Joe Boomer who is bitter about working a dead end job for 40 years? He can't just sit back and do nothing as other people receive things that he didn't!
He's stuck in a shit mortgage, so that means you need to be too. Otherwise you live under a bridge.
Totally agree... Ignoring the homeless won't make the issue go away.... No one wants to live in the streets especially when you are in a Nordic country.... We see in Montreal cases of poor souls who froze to death ... It is really tragic when it happens...
Why not just turn one of the unused states in the middle into a giant homeless colony?
For the price of bread, water and heroin, you'll never be bothered by them again.
Isn't that how we got the mormons, oklahoma, and... And shudder AUSTRALIA?
We can just set up reservations in unused land in Oklahoma for those that don't own land. /S
My local Fred Meyer starting doing some hostile shit recently. For one, they have AI in the self checkout cameras that watches you to make sure you don’t place anything from the cart to the bagging area without scanning. Which includes bags that I brought from home… My wife turned around and bumped her butt on it, and it gave an alarm that it wasn’t scanned.
They recently added railing from the checkouts to the exit, which would be fine if the liquor section didn’t have a fast checkout in the middle of the store. I just slip through the bars with my receipt, and the guy at the door says nothing and just quickly marks your receipt without reading anything.
It’s such an inconvenience for saving a few dollars of stollen food. It’s ridiculous.
I have and will continue to walk out mid transaction when I notice particularly egregious shit like that. It's the least I can do. Actively talk into the camera, and make sure they KNOW exactly why I'm walking out. Does it do any good? No, but it makes me feel a bit better.
Isn't this some sort of violation of the ADA? I imagine some people need to be able to sit down for disability reasons. Someone should file suit against the MTA and the city.
It is, it even mentions disabled people in the post, but an ADA violation isn't the magic bullet people think it is, someone still has to be able to take on whatever organisation has made the violation, and their lawyers, and win, before anything changes.
If I had the superpower of summoning tungsten blocks, I would use it for this. And bike lane barriers.
This is a classic. One of the biggest burns of all time. 👌
If I were an evil engineer I’d make retractable benches built into the walls that cost money to pull out. If I were a public official I’d have a subscription package for $60/yr that lets you use all the benches in the city. Must have a valid drivers license to purchase.
I would let anyone extend the bench but if the systems detects the user doesn't have a valid subscription it folds back into the wall compressing the person into a chunky soup.
I would name these benches after our favorite economic model - the meat grinder.
I hope you're not either of those things...
I would hack that system and provide cards to homeless people that give them free access to all benches in the city.
Boom, problem solved. With capitalism!
I gotta say, and maybe it's just me, but the reaction to this stuff is so much better on Lemmy than it was on Reddit. Redditors seem to hate the homeless.
Won't someone think of the {real-estate values}
The hell's going on in USA...?
Where I live I'm barely seeing homeless, and when I'm seeing homeless then it's due to their own choice of preffering alcohol over shelter, so I don't care that much (still getting them food if they ask and I have the means).
Does america not have shelters for homeless? Or do more homeless prefer deugs of any kind over shelter?
We do have homeless shelters, tons of them, but still not enough. Would be nice if we fixed the problems that create homelessness so we wouldn't need so many shelters. It's a complex problem I won't pretend to know how to fix, but there's always an oversupply of people who do (pretend to know).
Also, homeless shelters can be dangerous and normally doesn't allow drug/aclohol use, so addicted persons can't go there.
Homeless folks, in the sense of literally being on the street, often have either addiction or mental health issues here in the states. As our treatment for addiction is 'jail' and for mental health issues is 'deal with it', they are generally not overflowing with options.
Damn, if I were the social media person of what's presumably the responsible subway org, I'd also say it like it is. It's not your decision anyways. But actually reading it put so bluntly, is still wild to me.
Budget went to fund crooked eric adam's vacation fund
God bless Jeremy for speaking the truth.
The mask slips, but who will do anything about it?
The Deserter: The mask of humanity fall from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone — everything you love; all the hope and tenderness in the world. It has to take it off, just for one second. To do the deed. And then you see it. As it strangles and beats your friends to death... the sweetest, most courageous people in the world... (he's silent for a second) You see the fear and power in its eyes. Then you know.
Nah, you guys got it all wrong! Its to make space to expand the freeway a little more!
Уважаемые пассажиры! Уступайте места инвалидам, пожилым людям, инвалидам, пассажирам с детьми и беременным женщинам.
- Announcement in Moscow Metro about retired, disabled and parents. Other Soviet metro systems have different wording.
Is the government retarded?
No, it's the homeless who are wrong /s
It might be more accessible to others without all the homeless though. It's a transit station, not a homeless shelter