Turns out, far-right shitheads are still far-right shitheads

I saw that, which is why I didn't label the character "OP." It was intended more of a response in general, not a specific criticism of you.

In my view it's rare that anyone really 'simps for Hamas', they are the leading militant group in Gaza opposing the Israeli state though so if there are victories against IDF forces it's usually going to be under that umbrella, and praising a victory against IDF is not the same as praising past terror attacks. I've never heard anyone confused that they are communist. There are Marxist-Leninist groups in Palestine though, like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

What are you talking about? It is a conflict between two parties and everybody knows that things have to be black and white!!

I demand to know which of the two are the good guys!

By creating and attacking a strawman here you're distracting from the important points. Hamas is a direct response to the oppression of the Palestinian people by Israel. It's classic blowback and communists are just pointing out the obvious here. You can disagree that Hamas is deserving of critical support in the context of the current conflict, but if you ignore the conditions that led to Oct 7th and the fallout since you are taking the wrong lesson away from this issue and someday will be found on the wrong side of history.

72% of Palestinians believe the attack on Israel was "correct".

This is only because it was. And I'm really sad to say it, but it definitely was "correct".

Listen. Palestinians are fighting a losing war. Their enemy has taken their homes and is ethnically cleansing the region. There is NOTHING that they can do about it. We're watching the death throes of an entire people. And sometimes when you corner an animal, it bites. It's not gonna be nice. But Israel is fully responsible for this situation. It wasn't Palestine that wanted the two state solution. It wasn't Palestine that illegally settled Israel and stole their land. It wasn't Palestine that got granted an entire fucking country for no reason. It wasn't Palestine rigging elections in Israel and supporting the local terrorist organization. Israel has been the architect of all this destruction. Piece by piece, little by little, with the international community backing them and turning a blind eye to their genocide.

Everything Palestine can throw at Israel, it's justified. And I hope they do enough damage for Israel civilians to maybe think "hey, I don't want this. Let's get these warring fucks out of power and end this. Let me get out of this failed notion of a state, I don't want to be a part of it, I don't want to support displacing and killing off an entire people". But it won't. It'll just do a bit of damage to retaliate against the genocide, just enough to maybe make 1-2 people feel like they avenged the many loved ones who died. And I think - good. If you're gonna die anyway, if you're doomed either way? Fuck them. Fuck those Nazi assholes. Take off as big of a chunk as you can. Make them bleed, to remind them they're not invincible. Just as a last act of defiance before they finish you off.

Yeah. Hamas doesn't have any moral high ground, but the one that needs to be restrained at this moment in time is Israel.

I always thought the IDF was supposed to be super skilled and tactical. I expected surgical strikes to take out terrorists and minimize civilian casualties. They had a reputation for strength.

Turns out they're either incompetent or they're genocidal or both. Hint: both.

We can guess they would, as they are backed by iran, who has declared they want to wipe Israel off the map.

(Not Zion posting, Israel is commiting genocide, just saying Hamas is no better, just less capable)

Ehh, Hamas would have killed just as many if not far more civilians by now if Israel didn’t have such good defenses with things like the iron dome.

right, not even getting to the point of fighting each other, this makes it so much worse.

Im talking about hammas and the Israeli military, who are you talking about? I dont quite get you

Sadly, there are many innocents who are caught between the two.

This isn't a religious war. It's an oppressed people fighting back against a secular political ideology that uses religion to it's goals.

Gotta keep that connection between violence and communism alive or people may start to think it's not true.

I mean I said Israel, not Israelis, that was the hint.

Now that the terrorist attack is behind them, Isreali citizens arent currently being bombed the shit out of and active warzoned. Are they at risk of future terrorist attacks? Yes, but CURRENTLY its Palestinian citizens who are at a FAR higher risk

Edit: Lmao, apparently Tankies can see and reply to me even if I cant see them. I assume this is because I havent blocked them personally, but instance blocked Hexbear

Clarification to my Edit: Tankies if you are confused why Im insulting you even though you think I'm on the same side as you, Hamas can go fuck itself. Just like Isreal doesnt represent all Isreali citizens, neither does Hamas represent Palestinians. Isreal and Hamas can go fuck themselves, they are both pretty awful. I feel for Palestinians and consider them the most fucked over in this ordeal, but what Hamas did was VILE, even if what Isreal is doing in response is even more so

How many Israeli schools and hospitals are being bombed right now?

Yeah the fact that they only said they support Palestinians was pretty obvious what they meant. This smells, to me, like racism pretending to be a fair and balanced take on the situation.

It also radicalizes them, creating the next generation of terrorists.

The enemy of a fair and peaceful life for the innocent. Both Hamas and Israel have made it clear that they want conquest, not peace.

Israel is also the enemy. The enemy of our enemy should not always be our friend

Yeah, they're both irredeemable. The victims are the civilians, everyone else involved is a perpetrator.

Sometimes it's not as simple as the good guys versus the bad guys. Just because one side is bad doesn't mean everyone on the other side is good. There are multiple villains in this conflict and a lot of civilians suffering because of them.

Just because one side is bad doesn't mean the other side is good. They can both be different flavors of bad. Just because hamas is bad doesn't justify a genocide like Israel seems to think either.

Do you need a diagram?

How is the political stance of Hamas relevant?

It's a terrorist group defending their country from an invasion. Even North Korea has the right to defend their land. Even if I don't agree with the way they manage their country, it's their country.

Their political stance is totally irrelevant to me.

For me the issue is that Hamas already lost, and Israel is violating every single human right until Palestinians are exterminated using Hamas as an excuse.

Hamas needs to stop fighting, they are a piece of shit because they aren't giving up. Israel has always been a piece of shit. The end.

There are communist groups that work with Hamas, so that may have been removed because it doesn't seem accurate.

Do you mean prior to the Israeli occupation of Palestine in 1967? Because I think it's somewhat reasonable to be hostile towards an occupational force.

Not a gotcha I'm genuinely curious at what point in history you are referring to, apologies if it sounds antagonistic.

Well yes, they are well versed in history, right-wing politicians in Israel view the conflict on a biblical time scale and believe they are regaining their holy land. They are doing it as carefully and deliberately as they can, which is difficult and time consuming because they are supported by the West who mostly doesn't want them to commit genocide. Without the support of the West, Israel would be much more likely to be defeated by the numerous enemies that surround them.

What is this type of comment? I see kbin folks do it often

Sounds like those people need to pick a side or risk getting gunned down or bombed.

Correction. One is a democracy, so the rest of the world trades with it.

Look up the fire bombing of Tokyo.

'Sometimes' and even 'most of the time' isn't 'all the time'.

WW2 is an exceptionally rare event in which one side is so fucking awful that the support of the opposition is mandatory to not be a vile piece of shit.

I hate that it's even necessary to make a personal qualification on the good-ness/bad-ness of either group.

I shouldn't have to say "I hate both", I would like to simply observe - "The current conflict is - in part - a result of decades of systemic oppression and disenfranchisement on the basis of religious nationalism" - without someone jumping down my throat to accuse me of antisemitism or of supporting a terrorist group.

They aren't "committing genocide to attack Hamas", they have propped up Hamas for years specifically so they can bomb average people more and enact genocidal policies, in their ultimate goal of the destruction of Palestine. Right-wing Israeli politicians have been pretty clear about that for decades. Hamas isn't alone on their side, and Israel isn't targeting them specifically, they are just the largest of several militant groups fighting against Israel.

Not just not true. A deliberate lie.

The state of Israel is older than Hamas and Israel bombing Palestinians started before 7th of October 2023. I think the establishment of Hamas in 1987 and rising popularity till they got elected on Gaza in 2007 can be fairly attributed to Israel's bombing, displacement and apartheid rule of civilians.

Last I checked his popularity ain't doing so well.

Also may I remind you that the genocide of the Palestinians has been ongoing for far longer than the 7th of October and far precedes Netanyahu's government. In fact it even precedes hamas.

Am I supposed to ask what it is?

Not even just American conservatives, western conservatives, liberals (often times) and a good portion of Germans from all across the political spectrum that I had the displeasure of meeting seem to think that even remotely suggesting that perhaps bombing civilians is bad even when Israel does it means you're an antisemitic hamas supporter

Those people certainly exist but the opposite is far more numerous and vocal in positions of power, making all the anger directed towards "Hamas defenders" seem misplaced.

It's like watching a cat bite a bear and start fighting, destroying everything around them, and getting angry at the few people defending the cat while most people are either cheering on the bear or trying to stop the fighting.

Radical fundamentalists, I believe they're saying, make more palatable enemies. Same essential reason why Hamas was funded by Israel to split Palestinian support from Fatah - Fatah, as a secular and nominally leftist organization drew some international sympathy - Hamas, much less.

The other side of the coin is that Hamas was able to rise in the first place because Fatah had become incredibly corrupt and inept.

Because fighting fundamentalists gives you more international sympathy and support.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

It was also to prevent there being a unified Palestinian government by driving a wedge between the west bank and Gaza.

In 1982, a prominent Israeli strategic analyst, Avner Yaniv, coined the term “Palestinian peace offensive” to describe the risk that Palestinians would become too moderate politically and Israel would be forced to make concessions.

He urged using the "fiercest military pressures" against the PLO in Lebanon to undermine Palestinian moderates and make the PLO more hardline in order "to halt its rise to political respectability".

https://www.newarab.com/analysis/why-israel-has-strategic-interest-escalating-violence

Well "anti colonialist" and "freedom fighter" do not a communist make.

Though I can see how a connection could be made that the force fighting an apartheid settler colonial power aligns with anti apartheid anti colonial sentiment.

But critical support is kind of a nuanced thing that usually isn't understood well or interpreted charitably. It often follows the same logic of picking the lesser of two evils as a winning electoral strategy. Which means people end up supporting objectively bad things because they see it defeating an objectively worse thing.

being anti-colonial is not the same thing as being left wing? nor is being left wing a pre-requisite of receiving left wing support.

This is also the prevailing opinion of tankies on Lemmy. I've seen more than a handful of people on here saying they want to "write in Hamas" for the US election.

According to your own source, the money was intended to help Gaza civilians, it wasn’t just directly funneled to Hamas for weapons like you seem to imply. And it did buy peace for a little while until Hamas broke the peace on October 7th, again all from your own source.

Sure, the civilian deaths that started AFTER occupants of Gaza raided across the border, killed a bunch of civilians themselves, and took hostages back with them.

People don’t like being invaded and join whoever promises to fight the invaders. That’s enemy of my enemy from their perspective.

Exactly the same thing you mean.

Settler colonialism has no religion. Hamas has made it clear that their war is strictly against Zionist settlers and the occupation government who happen to be Jewish. It is not a struggle against Jewish people.

From the Hamas Charter:

16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.

Source: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hamas-2017-document-of-general-principles-and-policies

I find it hard to believe that Ben-Gurion was able to empathize with Palestinians more than westerners today, he said and I quote:

“ There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

Of course I personally don’t think a problem created by the West will be solved by the West. The only option that’s left is a justified war for liberation in the manner of Libya, Algeria and South Africa.

I don't think fighting for freedom of your country is mutually exclusive with having far right views, also I'm not saying this about Palestinians or Hamas, but overall, the mere fact of fighting for freedom of your country isn't even remotely related to ones political views, you can be on the whole political spectrum