Please, do not use Brave.
Please, do not use Brave.
I have seen many people in this community either talking about switching to Brave, or people who are actively using Brave. I would like to remind people that Brave browser (and by extension their search engine) is not privacy-centric whatsoever.
Brave was already ousted as spyware in the past and the company has made many decisions that are questionable at best. For example, Brave made a cryptocurrency which they then added to a rewards program that is built into the browser to encourage you to enable ads that are controlled by Brave.
Edit: Please be aware that the spyware article on Brave (and the rest of the browsers on the site) is outdated and may not reflect the browser as it is today.
After creating this cryptocurrency and rewards program, they started inserting affiliate codes into URL's. Prior to this they had faked fundraising for popular social media creators.
Do these decisions seem like ones a company that cares about their users (and by extension their privacy) would make? I'd say the answer is a very clear no.
One last thing, Brave illegally promoted an eToro affiliate program making a fortune from its users who will likely lose their money.
Edit: To the people commenting saying how Brave has a good out-of-the-box experience compared to other browsers, yes, it does. However, this is not a warning for your average person, this is a warning for people who actively care about their privacy and don't mind configuring their browser to maximize said privacy.
Brave is literally a grift. Too many people are falling for it.
Too many people only care about the openweb or shitty companies in the comments. They have no fucking willpower, no patience, and no follow through. Their complaints are utterly meaningless because they utterly refuse to stick to their guns.
There's one and literally only one browser that actually stands for all the things the most vocal people around here claim to care about.
Yet, they use Brave.
Ehh there is only so much a single person can care about. If you have a life and aren't effectively an activist/lobbyis by profession you can't care about politics both local and global, preserving nature and ecolody, world hunger & disease, and a million other things like which software company is less evil all at once and follow through 100%, supporting all of the causes meaningfully.
Not to mention we have to make compromises, too.
There’s one and literally only one browser that actually stands for all the things the most vocal people around here claim to care about.
Hard disagree. Firefox had its fair share of controversies, it's still technically funded by Google (while not accepting donations), and Mozilla Foundation as a nonprofit is pretty questionable too.
The leadership of Mozilla Corporation is shit too like any other corp; they lay off engineers and give themselves huge bonuses.
It takes them years to even acknowledge simple bugs, let alone actually getting to fix them.
A huge part of why Firefox lost the "browser wars" is also that they failed to make it easy to build into other apps so it could work more like Electron, while also pissing off users with surface changes that break their workflow.
Overall it's better than Chrome especially if you care about privacy, but it's not a huge win.
Brave is not spyware. That website you linked is horrible and full of misinformation. They also claim that Firefox, and even Tor Browser, are spyware. They act as if any and all connections a browser makes are automatically bad and used for spying/tracking.
I won't disagree with the other criticisms of Brave that you made, but just wanted to point that out. That website is just highly unreliable and makes verifiably false claims about the browsers it reviews.
Brave is not spyware
It is officially spyware now: https://www.ghacks.net/2023/10/18/brave-is-installing-vpn-services-without-user-consent/
Just commenting to let you know I've clarified a bit in the post. Also, stock Firefox is spyware so.
Stock as in out-of-the-box.
Edit: If you want to downvote this go ahead, but at least know that it's true. Without changing ANY settings, Firefox is spyware.
Let's not forget one of the biggest investors is a right-wing billionaire who runs a corporate intelligence agency that contracts with the DoD. And the only proof we have that he doesn't collect data on Brave's users is the questionable word of the devs.
Brave has been off limits for me ever since I saw my QAnon nutjob father using it lol.
Big ol yikes right there
That's dumb.
Would you stop drinking water just because Hitler drank it too?
I would appreciate if we don't bring politics into the conversation. They are completely subjective and only serve to stray away from the original point.
Edit:
Yes, I'm aware I'm in the wrong here.
Politics are as subjective as the right to privacy. There isn't a hard logical truth to it, it's what people think is moral. Considering that, and considering that right-wing billionaires aren't known for being friendly to privacy, I think it's fine to bring politics into this discussion.
Everything is political.
Everything is politics kid. Sticking your head in the sand is no different than allowing people with evil intent to do whatever they want.
We can, will, and must continue to talk about everything through a political lens until all the problems of the world are resolved
You are aware that "Don't bring politics into this" is code for "I don't agree with what you're saying" right? It's never a good look.
For the comments, can anyone give me an actual reason to use Brave over Firefox (and it's forks)? I guess the cryptocurrency aspect is a reason, but I wouldn't say it's a very good one.
That's actually one of the reasons I do not use Brave.
My guess is because Brave is a relatively known Chromium browser that's been degoogled. Along with built in ad and tracker blocking, and it's an easy less evil of the two.
I want to like Firefox, both as normal user and as web developer, but something about it keeps bugging me. The UI feels sluggish, sites seem to be slightly less performant, and I can't seem to get used to it.
That said, I've started using Vivaldi, and while it can be considered bloated, I really like the tab options it has, while also offering a degoogled chromium that's being kept to date.
I want to like Firefox, both as normal user and as web developer, but something about it keeps bugging me. The UI feels sluggish, sites seem to be slightly less performant, and I can't seem to get used to it.
I feel the exact same. I use linux with a tiling window manager and when I change format, Firefox just starts twitching like it's trying to give me an epileptic seizure while chromium browsers do it just fine.
Also, sometime ago I tried to compare Chrome (when I still used it) and Firefox side by side with the same extensions opening the same websites and Firefox always took a bit more ram.
The problem is that so many site hyper-optimize for chrome. Add that to Google helping create web frameworks that seem to almost intentionally break Firefox and you get a de facto standard on chrome because ANYTHING else seems broken.
Long live FF
Try basic Chromium, it's Chrome without the Google.
You're not wrong about Firefox, many sites are specifically optimized for Chrome and perform worse in FF. This is especially true for anything Google.
My machines are generally fast enough that FF is fine so I prefer it but I fall back to Chromium occasionally or Chrome and Edge for specific uses.
There's nothing in particular wrong with Vivaldi, IIRC I didn't like some features or UI bits when I used it last so it didn't have anything to recommend itself to me over basic Chromium. I'd prefer it over Edge which, IMO, is bloated with a bunch of garbage but Edge has very good streaming site support so 🤷♂️
Vivaldi tab management is pretty great. Vivaldi is designed for power users that always have a ton of tabs open. There are a bunch of other features as well that I use regularly, but I could see that it might be a bit of a learning curve for those that just want to install a browser and immediately know where everything is. There has been more than a few times that I discovered yet another efficiency using Vivaldi and felt like I was getting more from it. Definitely a browser for someone willing to spend time configuring it for their use case. Keyboard shortcuts ftw!
Pretty much the only reason I use brave. 99% of the time librewolf. I don't wanna go through the effort of installing chromium and an ad blocker and all that other stuff for the 1% of sites that are broken on firefox for me so brave it is. Really I just wish there was a chrome repackage with all this stuff out of the box. God knows chrome and chromium will never be that.
For me, Vivaldi had had the best performance next to Safari. FF and Chrome are easily smoked by Vivaldi when benchmarking. Idk if it’s related to M-series chipset or what, but my buddy who doesn’t have one has much worse performance on his laptop. Also, web and software dev, the saved workspaces that you can pin is killer.
I have installed Brave on my grandparents' computer, because:
- They had only used chrome, so brave is more familiar than firefox.
- Less chance of something not working/loading properly.
Personally I use firefox.
I don't use brave, but I use Vivaldi.
The main reason for me is native mouse gestures. They are so much better than addon mouse gestures.
And speed dials. Addon ones are okayish, but I prefer the Vivaldi implementation.
If Firefox would ever ass native mouse gestures, I would swap in an instant. Until then, no can do :(
Being chromium based it
- has better performance
- has less bugs
- has better standards compatibility
Don't get me wrong, I am using Firefox, but your entire post is pretty disingenuous. Criticizing Brave over privacy concerns and then suggesting Firefox instead requires disingenuity or a special kind of ignorance and/or stupidity. Firefox has had 10 times as many privacy "mishaps" as Brave with all the "experiments" of corporate affiliates they shipped to users unannounced. There's a reason there are so many forks of Firefox.
Pretty much everything you criticize about Brave is entirely optional.
Then you title a link as Brave "getting ousted as spyware", and the linked to page does not oust Brave as spyware at all. You would do good to adopt some of the more neutral/factual tone of that page.
And in parts that page is pretty ridiculous, too: complaining about what is set as the default search engine (the same as Firefox, btw). Who the fuck cares what search engine is set by default? Just change it. Opt out of everything you do not like. If there's stuff you cannot opt out of which is bad, we can talk about that. But arguing about optional features is ridiculous.
Edit: little add-on: Brave factually has better out of the box (no plugins) privacy protection than Firefox: https://privacytests.org/
None of those three are true.
Some web sites are optimized for chrome.
Not remotely accurate, https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list
Not to any relevant degree. 515 VS 528 is at best a slight difference that in all likely hood is from Googlie using their position to strong arm things that benefit only them into the standards and very likely undetectable by the end user. https://html5test.com/I stated "and it’s forks" in the comment, and I did not mention Firefox (or any other browser) in the actual main post itself. Firefox can be easily de-spyware'd with something like arkenfox's user.js (as I mentioned in another comment). There are also plenty of privacy-centric Chromium based browsers such as Ungoogled Chromium and Vivaldi.
Regarding optional features, I more used them as a segue into the last three links showcasing Brave's malicious and downright illegal activities. Personally, the fact those features are integrated into the browser at all is a deal breaker for me.
Edit: For the record, I'm aware Vivaldi is proprietary but I don't necessarily think that makes it bad. I haven't done enough research on it to personally recommend it, but I've been told that it's good.
That website you link is literally run by a Brave employee. Sure, they might have tried very hard to be independent, but when you literally work on the codebase of one browser you're probably going to write your tests to focus on the things you already know (plus it's not like Brave would allow their employee to run a site that says it's shit, would they?)
The
thisisunsafebypass - although I'm pretty sure it's a Chromium feature and not specific to Brave. One of our servers has a completely fucked-up SSL cert, which I can't fix for reasons outside my control. Firefox won't allow me to connect, butthisisunsafeon Brave works.On iOS, unlike Android, Firefox doesn't come with extensions. No ads are blocked. Even if I use Safari and Adguard extension, it doesn't block YouTube ads. Brave works like a charm in this regard. I've opted out of all telemetry stuff that I could find, and btw even Firefox opts into everything by default. Any other open source browser you can suggest that blocks ads including YouTube on iOS?
The only reason I use it over firefox is about tab grouping and how tab mutting work by default. I don't feel like trying out a bunch of extensions to find one that does what I already get from another browser. Also don't have to worry about installing ad blocker. Originally switched because it worked better than uorigin for a specific use-case that was relevant for me. I also have vivaldi, firefox, and librewolf install and will use them occasionally. Privacy isn't a big concern for me though; when I tried to switch to librewolf, the privacy features ended up annoying me so I disabled a lot of them because they interfered with using the browser how I wanted.
Not recommending Brave. I agree at least in theory with using Firefox and I want more people to use Firefox. But its what I'm use to and there was reason for me to try it out at the time I switched to it (that's probably irrelevant now).
Defaults. Install Brave and you're done. Site doesn't work? Report non-working site. Wanna support creators? Top up your Brave Wallet or turn on Brave ads.
I've a limited budget and limited time to tip websites. I ain't gonna tip manually every other rando on the internet. Brave takes care of that. Small amounts, yes, but better than just ad-blocking [yes, website owners have to opt-in to it].
Completely uninformed take follows: Also, Mozilla seems to be trying to ramp up their ads department -- search for Mozilla Ads. And no-one gonna convert because they already have Google Adsense.
TL;DR: Firefox is faster but using recommended tools like uBlock Origin leaves websites without income.
You can always use something like AdNauseam to give website owners ad revenue and still block ads.
Due to some specific hardware issue on my end affecting all firefox based browsers, I have to use a hardened and stripped down version of Flatpak Brave, which I did manually, as a backup browser. I used to use Ungoogled Chromium but it is not reliable. Other than that there is absolutely no reason to use Brave and I would immediately switch back to Firefox only if I get newer hardware.
As a plus point, firefox (gecko based browsers in general) are the only ones I have seen which provide the best theming flexibilities.
Brave is better out of the box than Firefox
And an iPhone is better for privacy out of the box than most Android phones, but once you make some basic changes that's no longer the case.
Not by much...
I use it on my phone and tablet to block YouTube ads. All the other browsers are dedicated for various other purposes, but I use Firefox as my main browser. When a site doesn’t work on FF, I have to use Safari. Brave is just another tool in my toolbox.
I wouldn't touch Brave with a ten-foot pole, but I heard that it's configured for privacy by default, whereas Firefox requires extensions like uBlock Origin etc. So maybe Brave is better for idiots, I guess?
Chromium exensions
This falls under "not a good reason" because 90% of Chromium extensions have Firefox alternatives.
If someone can help me fix a major issue I have with Firefox I'd love to switch.
I heavily use the per-application sound volume in pipewire on my Linux PC.
Firefox will reset whatever volume I have set as soon as I pause a video and resume it a couple seconds later.
I have a deej board and use that to control the application volumes.
Firefox makes it simply unusable for me...its a known bug and Mozilla just doesn't give a fuck...
If fire fox has profiles like brave, I'd switch instantly. I need profiles to separate all my different accounts
Edit: I just wanted to say thanks to those who replied to my comment, it looks like I've gotten a couple of really good ideas for implementing profiles within Firefox. I'll be exploring these thanks much!
Container in Firefox is better IMO. Use this addon to enable the feature https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/
What do you mean, of course Firefox has profiles.
You can also separate online accounts with container tabs.
Firefox Multi-Account Containers
Firefox has profiles, it's just not nearly as intuitive/easy to find as Chrome.
I had created shortcuts on the desktop to easily choose between them. One for "school" one for "junk/entertainment" and for "important/shopping"
Eventually after school, I merged them and just use containers. This when I started using a separate password manager. For the sites I have multiple accounts for, it's no trouble to pick the one I need.
If I ever need a completely separate work browser, I'd use a separate profile for that.
I do keep an "add-on free" profile for when I run into some website that's completely broken otherwise, but rarely need it.
Check out Floorp. It's based on Firefox, but has a lot of other functionality. Maybe it has what you're looking for! https://floorp.app/en/
Personally I agree with the OP; and I refuse to use Brave. This isn't based in dislike of cryptocurrency in general; but I DESPISE both ADVERTISING AND SHITCOINS (Basically any token or sub-token of a main standalone blockchain that has no real, significant, usable real world value).
Therefore Brave DOES NOT reflect my values. I don't care if advertising networks make any money, I actively hate them enough I want to deprive them due to their behaviors anyway for being so violently anti-user.
I don't use Chrome or Brave because they DO NOT reflect my beliefs regarding web standards either, and I refuse to allow Google and the Chromium and Chrome project to dictate standards either. Particularly of note is their utter failure with both FLOC and WEB-INTEGRITY; both of which are stupidly retarded anti-user and anti-privacy features which are horrible.
Web Integrity might be the worst Google thing yet
Brave behaving like Win XP era browser with gazillion toolbars installed, with a pinch of crypto and crypto promoting ads should be a giant red flag.
FOSS =/= trusted by default. Why are there so many FOSS evangelists, but such a damn tiny part of them are programmers, let alone programmers able to examine a source code behind such a giant codebase as web browser?
I use Vivaldi, at least their business model is clear, and developer is kind of trusted, and not crypto scammer and homophobe.
Newsflash: everything that isn't free and entirely open source is generally spyware these days.
It's amazing how we pilloried RealPlayer and burned its parent company to the fucking ground over two decades ago for far less egregious transgressions than what we now let Meta, Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc get away with.
Woah, realplayer, you just gave me a hit of nostalgia
brave browser is free and open source tho?
It's amazing Canter & Siegel were the most hated people on the Internet at one time...
I remember using that on windows xp, maybe vista too.
The issue is wider than Brave. Nowadays, companies build uncritical communities around their products.
If you try to be critical, you loose the community in which you're involved on one side. And, if you are critical from the outside, "you don't understand" like in the "you're not the choose one".
Brave always marketed itself as hardened privacy browser and the second I saw their shitcoin immediately bells went off.
Either way, I use Librewolf on PC and Mac and lately been giving Arc a try on Mac and I like it.
Since the source code of that Chromium browser is under the same license as Firefox, someone could fork Brave at anytime. Dissenter is trash, fuck Gab.
Arc is, I think, not particularly a privacy focused Browser, but I only use Mac at work and privacy ain't my main concern there. So privacy aside and a little tear shed that it's not FF based, Arc is just great.
Might I add brave's BAT wallet is garbage. You had to sign up to some random exchange and upload your ID (I didn't), but even that you couldn't even backup your wallet into a new install, so hope that you would never have to format or reinstall or change devices - it'll be a pain to restore, if it was even possible.
Firefox over brave any day.
making (presumably) thousands of dollars off their users
I agree with this post completely but for some reason you finishing with this makes me chuckle.
Oh no! Thousands! They might be able to pay rent for a month or two!
I'm just being cheeky, and while its true what they did was scummy, it also feels like a really.... smallish amount of money?
If we're literally just talking thousands, and not tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
But yeah, fuck Brave.
Firefox gang and Hardened Firefox gang here to stay.
Mozilla's got its own problems but that's a story for another day.
Well thousands could mean hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands. I kept it small because I can't really give a real number.
Now try saying that at https://lemmy.one/c/privacyguides
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
Could crosspost it.
I see this exact thread every week now and it's between the same people:
"Oh ok i stopped using it" to "Naw i'll keep using brave"
At this point can we stop this? Brave is trash but people are either too stubborn or just don't care anymore (which is ironic). Either mods just pin this thread and treat this as a "brave is trash" megathread or I don't know.
I used them for a few weeks before they rolled out their crypto scheme. It honestly felt like they monetized “privacy”, nothing more. So I bailed having zero faith any of their shit worked like they wanted us to think it works.
I used to use Brave, then used Bromite but that got abandoned. I think there's another fork of it, but ultimately I just use Firefox which has worked better for me overall.
Browsers are a big attack vector for exploits and security is very important. Firefox releases patches regularly and I don't have to worry about it being abandoned like some others. I disabled whatever telemetry / sponsored stuff they have enabled by default and feel it's a good balance of security & privacy + doesn't have the DRM crap chromium is trying to add.
Their extension support is nice too.
Even if they were amazing, it would still be worth using Firefox instead to suppport an alternative to chromium.
Why are there daily posts against Brave but not against other browsers? Is Google more trustworthy than Brave?
Because Brave likes to portray itself as privacy friendly. We already know Chrome, Edge and others aren't.
Because people in this community already know not to use Google Chrome and Microsoft.
I mean it's a free forum, you can make one if you want to.
I don't object the creation. I just want to know why there is that discrepancy.
"The devil you know" and all that.
People shitting on chrome & edge all the time?
What are you talking about?
I tried them a few years ago before I knew more about things like this, their CEO, etc. I had a problem with them continuously taking over my home page on desktop with their own homepage (much the way Firefox on android does now) after every update. I contacted them on social media where they went on a two day stent of making fun of me for having a problem and gaslighting me that there was a problem because zero other people had ever complained. Super professional there.
Look, just… just use fire fox! Sure some sights aren’t optimized for it, but it’s a minor difference in performance from a chromium based browser.
And the more people use fire fox the more sights will have a reason to optimize for it.
Anything that is using chromium is still using something built by Google, and thus if Google tries to alter chromium to make ad blockers stop working, or some other asinine idea, there isn’t much a browser can do about it.
Sites*, not sights.
Use librewolf instead of Firefox to get rid of the whole spyware part of it. Librewolf only has a single request when starting, to "check for updates". But using Firefox is the second best thing you can do both for your privacy and to fight Google's " Web Environment Integrity" crap.
and 80% of firefox's revenue is JUST Google. we are fighting an uphill battle here
Guess what, Firefox also gets the same score on ghis site :)
https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/firefox
Also they both seem to be the better option to Chrome https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/chrome
Not sure if this score applies to vanilla Chromium.
Yes they both get the same score, but Firefox also has a mitigation guide to make it Not Spyware.
That website is very bad and full of verifiably false information, they act as if any and all connections a browser makes are automatically bad and "spying". They even claim that Tor Browser is a "spyware".
That website is [...] full of verifiably false information
Could you please provide and example or two? I wish to verify it, since I didn't notice any last time I checked the site.
they act as if any and all [unprompted] connections a browser makes are automatically bad and “spying”.
They're very clear that this is their approach (bold text on the home page). Even if you disagree with their definition, that doesn't make the site bad. And there are many valid situations where a threat model should be this strict, consider anti-government activists in any country.
They even claim that Tor Browser is a “spyware”.
It says "Not Spyware". https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/tor
Let me put it in this way – if Firefox were really a spyware, TOR browser won't be based on Firefox.
That website has a very strict, unusual interpretation of 'spyware'. Even if all the telemetry and unprompted connections made by Mozilla Firefox are in good faith and legitimate features, that website still labels it 'spyware', as it is revealing unnecessary information without your consent.
The same website gives Tor Browser a 'Not Spyware' rating, as it (necessarily!) removed the default features of Firefox that concerned them.
Side note - I think you may have accidentally marked your account as a 'bot account' in the settings.
Tbf Tor is based on US military software. Could be a honeypot lol. But it's the best we've got...
That's not the best argument tbh, bc you van remove all the spyware from brave AND Firefox sooooo
@eya I made sure I’d never use brave when I found out that the ceo is a massive homophobe
Never used it, I saw some twitter comments from it's CEO and this guy isn't trustable.
I go with Firefox and sometimes epiphany. Last one tries to accomplish the level of the well known ones but is mostly years behind. That's sad, because I really like it.
Brendan Eich is a big ole dickhead. He's kind of like if Elon Musk was actually a competent engineer.
I dont use Brave and will never use it. But this sounds not logical.
Their ad system and affiliate URLs are not anti-privacy per-se. Its not as easy.
I will not use it as its
- 99% controlled by Google
- dependend on Google Addon store
- bad UI
- bad OS integration
- not Arkenfox
dependend on Google Addon store
I think that's 50% true. There are multiple alternative places to host addons:
- Microsoft Edge Store (or smth like that from Microsoft)
- add0n.com and other similar "indie" places (but I'm not sure they provide updates)
These alternative places are not popular so Google Addon store is an effective monopoly. But I think it's not impossible to challenge that.
I mean yes, but on Firefox you have no hassle at all. If they have such a great browser, why cant they have an addon store with baked in updates for the basics, Noscript, Ublock Origin and whatnot. Leave out all the Honey and Ghostery crap
Not arkenfox, But that about tor browser?
Tor isn't really designed to be used for everyday use.
Firefox + Startpage is really cool. I like how their searched don't include the search parameters in the url + the built in proxy
Startpage is "cool" as long as you're not using a proxy/VPN, and otherwise they tell you to GTFO (without an opportunity to complete a capcha or smth). Even more, they can tell you the very same thing if you're sharing a connection with lots of ppl (e.g. a dorm or a public WiFi, probably). Finally, (heard it from surveillance report, but didn't care to check myself since I've stopped using them 'cause of proxies long before) they don't interact with journalists, and there's not much known about their parent company
oh shit, I wasn't aware of that drama, thanks for sharing the info
Honestly, even the crypto part of Brave was a cool idea. Back when it was in beta, I was sending various websites and GitHub users 'tips', and they were able to cash out. It was genuinely supposed to be a new way to monetize the web (they later made the tips automatic based on how long you spent on each webpage), but, yeah.. Too many people didn't see the vision, and they got too much hate, so I'm pretty sure that whole program is axed now.
they got too much hate
It's almost like lying to your users about fundraisers and inserting affiliate links into URL's leads people to hate you...
Used to use Brave, but it became more and more bloated as time went on. Also, I realized that I wasn't opposing Google as I wanted, but choosing an alternative of Google, as brave is still based on chromium. I enjoy Firefox very much now (don't know about the performance issues people talk about at all cause it seems better than all chrome, brave, opera, and opera GX I used in the past) although I'm looking into even further simplifying and privatizing that. Any suggestions for modified Firefox browsers that keep the functionality would be appreciated.
I use Librewolf, I've enjoyed it and it's very privacy-centric.
Thanks for the rec! I'll check it out
Firefox used to have performance issues, as of 6 months ago Firefox runs faster than Chrome.
thanks for the links and info. I use brave as well as firefox and other browsers depending on what device I'm using. The spyware link is worth a quick read to understand any risks. It's great to see some analysis done there. I actually feel a little better about brave now, I'm ok with those risks for most cases and brave blocks ads better for me than what I've seen in other browsers. I'm always willing to switch though, I have no loyalty to any browser.
uBlock Origin does basically the same thing Brave's adblock does only better and more customizable.
The spyware link is not a credible resource. Read some of the other comments here and look at what that site says about Firefox.
its open source tho, show me the spyware and i will belive you
To be fair, the binary that gets installed might be altered. I believe Microsoft does this with vscode, they were open about it.
people after seeing what google collects would take anything over Chrome
Lol isn't eTrash considered a scam anyways? They are the reason i got ad blocker - dumbest ads on youtube 24/7.
Anyways sounds like you gotta be quite brave to use Brave lol
Current Brave user here.
Is Firefox the way to go at this point? I considered switching back to just plain Chrome or even Chromium more broadly
Most people agree that Firefox (with something like arkenfox's user.js) or a fork of it is the way to go. Don't use stock Firefox, it manages to be worse than Brave out of the box when it comes to privacy.
I would recommend waterfox. I use it on windows, it doesn't run great on Linux so far so on my Linux machines I use Firefox.
Brave is better than chrome ans I'm glad we have alternatives.
I doubt, at least with chrome you can switch off the crap and have immediate security updates while with brave you may have to wait a week or even a month for a security chromium patch.
@eya Oh wow, I'm using it as a daily basis. I think using mullvad browser is an option now.
So whats a good browser for my android? Already changed to duckduckgo browser on my PC.
Firefox for Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.firefox
I have been using it for several years and really happy with it.
Thank you! I changed now.
Firefox. With adblock & other privacy-focused extensions on Android.
If you are this paranoid - Firefox Focus browser on Android.
Mull is a great choice imo. You can get it from f-droid after you've added the DivestOS repositary. It's basically a deblobbed Firefox built with privacy in mind.
Edit: just rember to add ublock origin to block adds.
What is the best browser for iOS?
They're all Safari Incognito
Safari
Apple TOS requires all web pages load in safari so a web browser is a coat of paint
safari, all the others are the same
Brave on iOS blocks ads, Firefox and Safari don't.
Orion Browser by Kagi
if you want the best privacy but you still want to use chrome just use ungoogled chromium, you get both privacy and you're still able to use chrome, just minus the sync capability
if you want something like it for mobile on android there's bromiteif you want something like it for ios... you're fucked
Then what browser yall recommend ??
firefox
Always! Recently, I've been dabbling with Floorp. Based on FF. It's quite nice! https://floorp.app/en/
Firefox is a good start, or Librewolf if you're really concerned about privacy
Firefox with arkenfox's user.js or forks of Firefox such as Librewolf. You could also use Mullvad's browser.
Firefox and Arkenfox is my browser of choice
If you're on MacOS, Orion is really good. Zero telemetry, built-in ad blocker, supports both Firefox AND Chrome extensions.
I actually use Brave and have been for few years. Used Firefox back when it was version 2 and switched to Brave as it's performance was better compared to Firefox.
Reading the above now, you have shed a lot of light on things I didn't know about Brave. I know I can disable a lot of stuff on it (news, rewards, VPN, chat). But the list of bloat has been increasing.
Your post is an eye opener. I will be looking for a way to switch to Firefox. Unfortunately I work for an organisation that doesn't give us the option of installing our browser. Forced to use MS Edge for now lol.
Spyware is a bit of a stretch. However, let's talk about Firefox. Mozilla Corporation is a Billion Dollar Corporation that is tied at the hip to Google and uses 115+ servers to track every single thing you do.
Chromium explicitly uses shared memory and is technically able to write and execute not only shared data from private/incognito to regular windows or tabs but adjacent processes. You can search for
mmapin the Chromium repo or try to use Chromium with FreeBSD or GhostBSD sysctl.conf set withkern.elf64.allow_wx = 0- it won't run.The Precise Geolcation Timeout for Firefox is 68 years.
Well. I get the rating criteria of this website. But it's useful of adding telemetry to learn crashes and feature usage. If we all obey these criteria, we would need to read every line of codes and build it by ourselves. That would be the safest way of living a digital life.
I hate Brendan Eich, I hate the constant annoyances of Brave adding cards and sponsored backgrounds, I hate the dominance of Chromium, and I hate cryptocurrency.
But this is a fight I've lost.
I'm one of those insufferable Linux nerds who has spent $50+hours/month setting up a Nextcloud VPS, calling my friends Nazi-adjacent for using Twitter, etc. I'm horribly opinionated about software. I WANT everyone to use Firefox.
But I just don't have the spare time for Firefox anymore.
I've had irreconcilable, breaking issues with vanilla Firefox installs on almost every major desktop and mobile OS (excluding KaiOS and Apple WatchOS) every time I tried to switch to it during the past few years. This is not exaggeration.
From crashing because it can't handle keyboard-arrow down on iPadOS, lacking good built-in adblock controls (like Brave Shields) on Android and iOS, to being unable to load hCaptcha on desktop even after hours of user.js flitching. This is on top of the inconvenience of not having a good alternative to Chromium's Profile UI, the inconvenience of needing to test on Chrome when doing webdev, etc.
Brave is a putrid steaming pile of shit, but it's the best choice I've found. This post exaggerates a lot of the very real issues Brave has. This isn't praise for Brave, but rather an indictment on the state of browsing and personal-computing.
I write here very sparingly. With this comment, I hope someone will tell me I'm an idiot who's missing a wonderful browser out there.
Yeah I've used Firefox on several platforms and never had these issues. Sounds like a you thing
I've had no instability issues with Librewolf in my time using it. However, how can you be both an insufferable Linux nerd and someone who uses Apple products? And when it comes to Android, you should be able to just install uBlock Origin or a system-wide ad blocker like AdGuard.
how can you be both an insufferable Linux nerd and someone who uses Apple products?
These aren't irreconcilable. Suffice to say I'm an extra annoying person.
you should be able to just install uBlock Origin or a system-wide ad blocker like AdGuard.
Brave on mobile has per-site JavaScript controls that are quick and easy to access within the browser. I don't know of anything nearly as good.
I'm sort of a Linux nerd and I have an iPad. The reason being when I bought my iPad not many Android tablets satisfies my needs. The few that sort of do don't support third party ROMs and stock / manufacturer bloated Android imo is even more of a privacy disaster than stock iOS. However that has changed since the release of the new Pixel tablets which supports Graphene. I might try that out when my iPad retires.
I understand why people don't like Brave, but for me it's the least shitty out of all of them, I dislike Mozilla (not Firefox) way more than I dislike crypto, and Firefox has awful out of the box privacy, and before you leave all of the comments about user.js, know that isn't ideal because it leaves you with a more identifiable fingerprint because all of the specific modifications.
The day Firefox has good defaults and leave all unnecessary crap with tracking (google default, pocket, etc) is the day I'll switch.
Why should I trust Mozilla over Brave? Just because Mozilla is a nonprofit subsidiary doesn't mean that they don't have an incentive to make money for their profit handling corporate division, the Mozilla Corporation. I tried playing around with Firefox and not having the option to directly add a less-used search engine than the ones given without extensions was pretty sketchy to me. All of the complaints people have about Brave like ads and the weird crypto thing are very configurable in the settings, and I have a lot less compatibility issues compared to Firefox. Also, the source linked claiming all of this is a sketchy Neocities site that anyone could have made that doesn't even prove why Brave isn't private. I get that people are loyal to their favorite browsers but this is silly. If you really want to be private, use the Tor network, but all browsers and extensions need to track you in some degree to function.
I really like Brave on my Android phone, with the build-in ad-blocking it's a really nice experience. Firefox on Android sucks imo, but I do use Firefox on my laptop as my primary browser.
If you have an android phone you could use something like Mull.
Why doesnt Mull completely clear out/remove Google Safe Browsing? There's 20 settings still in about:config that still have google domains and URLs. I don't want any part of Google touching my browser.
On a personal gripe, my complaints about Mull (or any FF Android app) are UX/UI related. No custom homepage (important to me), and the alternative "Shortcuts" on the home screen keep adding every site I visit. And while I'm at it, Mull's icon is ugly. It certainly doesnt need to splash screen the ugly logo every time you open it.
Level: Paranoia +++++
If people want to use Brave, or Windows, or install screen doors on their submarines who am I to complain?
The fact is for a lot of people, Brave offers a superior out of box experience compared to firefox or almost any other browser. In terms of ad blocking, speed and ease of use, it's pretty much second to none. The fact that you install it and go is really appealing and how easy they make the slider to adjust the aggressiveness of the script blocking is great ui that my dad mother could use.
Yes, the company isn't very good, it's headed by a guy with a questionable history and has a poor track record when it comes to monetization strategy. I stopped using Brave this year, but for ages it was my goto because I could just install it and have an improved web experience.
Well, 1st, your sources are are weak here. However, it is a fact Brave is also run by con artists and swindlers.
The issue many users have is compatibility. Firefox zealots ignore the fact IT folks must work with Chromium. I cannot get the tools I need to work reliably on Firefox (or LibreWolf, Mullvad, etc.).
So, within the Chromium limitation, , I work on 7 systems regularly, I must have bookmark replication, MacOS/Linux/Windows/Android support:
Ungoogled Chromium = rough, no bookmark replication Vivaldi = worse than Brave, because no full source code Opera = Chinese Iridium = Indian Brave = source code available, privacy focused Edge = lol Chrome = lol
Winner? Brave. I use it with Pi-hole DNS on my home network, forced to use it with work DNS on their networks. I do also use LibreWolf (aka Firefox) with the Mullvad extension. I use it along with Brave, and hopefully at some point I can switch. I've tried 3 times in recent years, but too many web interfaces have Firefox issues, since it's blatantly not being used to QA websites anymore.
Does this all matter though? Afaik the browser if fully open source, even the crypto stuff so all the shady stuff would be detected (and has as in your examples). Like all of the issues you linked at this point are years in the past. I don't use Brave personally but it being completely FOSS is a huge plus even if the company itself might be weird. On the other hand you have something like Vivaldi that looks like "the good guys" but you'll always have to trust them as well because they're not fully open source.
I use FF but you just cannot deny that using a Chromium based browser has many security advantages over Gecko, especially on mobile. I takes Mozilla seemingly years and years to implement security features like Chromium. They don't put the necessary priority behind this.
If you need a Chromium derivative, then Brave is probably the best choice. It's open-source, and includes ad blocking. Just don't use its crypto token.
I prefer Firefox over Brave, but sometimes I might need a Chromium derivative for a particular site.
If you need Chromium use Ungoogled Chromium
Tf? If you need ungoogled chromium just use ungoogled chromium.
- I use brave on android, because there's not much choice. I really-really-really loved bromite, but noupdatess for like a year Recently I found out there's cromite so I think i will check that one out
- On desktop I use librewolf, only
- For any people using google chrome/yandex/edge/opera I install brave and disable all the crypto/advertising/crap. It would be nice to have a script that does it automatically. Or another browser that just doesn't have that
All you need to know is the Brave guy is a pedophile who is 100% using your ad revenue to buy csam.
Lol did i miss something? Did he get arrested or something?
How do they make ad revenue when there are no ads, and the ones that show when you first install can be deconfigured?
From the OP; affiliate links
I never went to the browser though because their “pay us and we’ll totally give it to the websites you want if they request it” was enough for me to avoid it
source?
I will
Brave support PWA. but, Firefox don't. So, here is the answer
It doesn't since when? I've used a twitter PWA with Firefox before.
I hate when companies try to make money off the product they are providing for free, so they can continue to be a company.
If you want Privacy, use TOR. Otherwise, pick whichever flavor of browser works best for you. The Internet in general is going to design their infrastructure/apps/websites to work with the companies that own the internet, and there's nothing that a few hundred people on social networks are going to do to change that.
Unless some of you get together and design a private device with a custom OS, private browser, etc, that somehow runs on a new browser engine...no forks, no additional scripts to make it work....
Using Tor as a daily driver kind of goes against the point of Tor. And they aren't just "making money off the product" they are committing actual crimes.
I see the down votes won't accept the real truth.
Idc about their money ventures, I dont give them any money because I am not a complete moron, their product works, I use it. If the morons fall for it, their problem
their product works, I use it
Google Chrome also works. This is the privacy community, I expect most people here don't mind fiddling around with settings to increase their privacy.
Or just use Edge cause Microsoft is already syphoning your data so you might as well go the whole hog and use Edge
I will
Sorry for your loss (of privacy).
why would you be sorry?
I'll keep using and promoting it. I consider it better than Mozilla/FF anyway. Deal with it and stop telling people what they should and shouldn't do.
You would rather support Google than Mozilla? Be my guest.
Yes. At least they aren't a money-grab virtue-signaling scammy "org"
Oh no, a shady, unknown neocities site is telling me to not trust my browser! Yes, I can use Firefox, uBlock and uMatrix, except on iOS, where I can’t do that, and that is where Brave does a good job. I am really tired of those „Brave baaad“ posts. Look guys, unless you are using Linux you might want to direct your attention at the huge, morally flexible company that does collect your data, no matter what browser you choose.
a shady, unknown neocities site is telling me to not trust my browser
Spyware Watchdog has been a resource for checking browser's for a very long time. It's not longer maintained, which is why I said "in the past".
uMatrix
The fact you even bring up this dead extension...
except on iOS, where I can’t do that
You can use AdGuard and Safari, but if you're on iOS you've already given up any semblance of privacy in the first place.
