Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”
Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”
Pitchford's prediction that Steam could be "a dying store" have not come to pass.
It's an open question whether Epic's limited success is a result of the company's failure to "press its advantage," as Pitchford opines, or just a sign that Steam's massive entrenched network effects have proven more resilient than he expected.
It's not. EGS doesn't solve any problems that Steam leaves on the table to be solved. Customers have no reason to shop at EGS when Epic takes its thumb off the scale.
It doesn't solve most of the problems Steam already solved either.
Not only that but it’s a worse user experience all around.
I fucking hate the EGS and Xbox stores for browsing new games. Most of the time you’ll get an animated video that’s not game footage and two screenshots that don’t tell you shit.
Not to mention that the formatting is so bad that the client requires you to basically be in fullscreen but you’ve still gotta scroll a mile down to get any info.
Not to mention that the formatting is so bad that the client requires you to basically be in fullscreen but you’ve still gotta scroll a mile down to get any info.
For Xbox, that's because the PC app is literally copy/pasted from the Xbox console app. Hell, it probably is the same universal app since that was a big Microsoft push to have more apps available on the consoles and Windows Phone.
Lol I thought it was just my advanced age of 33 that made it difficult to understand a game from the Xbox previews. A majority of screenshots look like garbage once you're not in character and the store highlights that.
Even ea's origin tried to offer more, with the overlay chat, etc. Epic did none of that.
Steam also offers community pages, user reviews, and other features that allows players to discuss their games.
If anything, the only thing that other stores have that Steam doesn't would be games not on Steam. Even then, half of the time, they're either itch(dot)io exclusive indie titles or shitty triple AAA titles.
The funny thing is, I feel like it's not so hard to navigate Steam for particular problems that consumers would like a solution to, but Valve has been ignoring or considers beyond them. For some people, those individual problems form the root of their buying decision. You'd have to beat them at something before you beat them at everything.
Imagine if Steam and EGS were hotdog vendors.
Steam offers all the condiments; mustard, ketchup, mayo, relish, onions, pickles, tomatoes, bacon, cheese, chili, etc.
EGS is just a plain hotdog. No condiments. You're lucky to even get a bun.
Both are equal price.
Which hotdog are you getting?
Now imagine that the plain hotdog guy keeps whining that nobody wants his hotdogs.
The hotdog vendor keeps going on about how he’s the good guy because he pays more to the sausage suppliers. As if that’s at all relevant to his customers.
To be fair, with regular groceries, it's not uncommon for consumers to be concerned about whether or not the person who manufactured or processed the good or food you are buying was paid a fair wage. So in that sense, it is kind of relevant to the hotdog vendors customers.
I'm only playing devils advocate though. Fuck epic lol
That, and Gabe's hotdog stand has spent decades building customer trust by generally acting decently towards its customers, right after it invented the concept of the hotdog stand.
Making the core of your business model revolve around whining about your competitors doesn't work so great when your main competitor is already significantly better than you are.
Not to mention the gabe stand made the hot dogs at all accessible for some nerds. Hotdogs were really hard to eat for the penguins.
Sometimes the epic hot dog isn't fully cooked, or has everything on it because they grabbed it out of steams hands then gave it to their customer
I think I lost this analogy. What are the condiments in this metaphor?
I don't know so much about EGS, but probably some of the following (most of which I don't use very often, I hope I recall correctly)
- Refunds
- Family sharing of games
- Sharing games for other local users
- Being able to lend games
- Remote Play (with friends)
- Remote Play (stream for a local machine)
- Linux support through proton
- probably more?
Free cloud backups of save files is really nice.
Free hosting of screenshots, too.
Free forums (though they tend to suck. I guess that's like they only have basic yellow mustard or something, in this metaphor)
yesssssssss, but the second hot-dog vendor wants to offer customers lower prices, and the first says they can't because otherwise those hot dogs will be banned from their stand, and the second responds by attempting to throw piss water-balloons at any passers by, or something
Nope, you are wrong, this is a common mistake that Epic keeps spreading as missinformation. Valve does NOT enforce price parity on other platforms, there are games that are sold cheaper on other stores, this is up to the publisher to decide, but most publishers find it easier to have the same price across the board. If this was true games that are exclusive on Epic would be cheaper until they come to Steam years later, but they aren't.
The mistake happens because there is one specific case in which Valve enforces price parity, but for this you need to know three things:
- Valve gives away for free infinite steam keys to publishers
- Those keys can be sold by the publisher elsewhere
- If they do that the publisher keeps 100% of the revenue of that sale
That sale of that free steam key for which Valve is not charging anything is regulated and can't be sold cheaper than Steam on regular basis, it can be in a sale for cheaper, but the regular price must match Steam and if it goes on sale outside of Steam eventually it needs to do a similar sale on Steam (but not necessarily at the same time).
So one thing that's amazing that Valve does for people who publish their games with them is getting them hate because of Epic, please stop spreading missinformation.
the second hot-dog vendor wants to offer customers lower prices, and the first says they can't because otherwise those hot dogs will be banned from their stand
It's more accurate to say that the plain hotdog vendor wants to sell the other vendor's hotdogs at a lower price at his own stand, thereby undercutting the sales of the first vendor for their own hotdogs.
It's false equivalence to claim steam has a monopoly when you're literally giving epic a monopoly on your games for financial kickbacks between yourselves that in the best case doesn't impact the user and worst case actively compells them to a much worse platform. What epic and gearbox did is monopolistic, what steam did is just make a good enough product that no one gives a sh*t about EGS. If you want an actual competitive store front, make something your users want, not your business partners. Gog is struggling but it's still my first goto for games because even if it's missing all of steams functionality, it gives me ownership of games that can't just be revoked or broken by publishers. That's a value add I'm willing to pay for. Paying more so publishers can make more money and sell a worse experience through EGS ain't moving me.
Steam has exclusive games too. Is that okay?
Sometimes I wonder if these people understand that no player ever wanted exclusivities on a game store. Instead of providing a decent service, they're litteraly trying to kidnap customers with a choice between waiting for months for this big release or taking it on a subpar platform.
This is my current dilemma with the new Star Wars outlaws game. Epic has exclusivity on release (or can buy direct on ubisoft), but I have 29 other Star Wars games all on Steam. Do I really want one odd game on a different platform, or do I just accept that I won't be playing it at release and wait the months for it to come to Steam?
Epic has exclusivity on release
Wait, really? It's officially off my list now. Screw those guys.
"Famously, Steam does very little to earn the massive cut they take"
Must be why it's so successful.
I kind of cracked up at "Steam does very little".
Hell, Epic does not have any social features, didn't have cart, refund process through support only, very basic search, I am not sure about cloud saves and if they don't break completely when you play offline (is there even offline mode?).
Steam, on the other hand, is constantly adding and improving features - like the new beta family sharing which is finally what an easy way to share with my GF and sister.
The only things that Epic has are free games, exclusivity, and lower fees - and that's about it. All three, as you can see, are not really hard to implement for the developer team, but easy to throw large sums of money at for a quick boost so they can boast numbers.
Fuck Epic, seriously. Money can solve lots of stuff, but not by throwing it at the wall. Meaningless.
EGS is worse than Steam was 10 years ago. Its only useful for piling free games from the store that I'll never play.
I gave Epic's store a chance but even after all this time it's still shit and very far from feature parity with Steam. There's not even proper reviews. No big-picture equivalent. No good out-of-the-box Linux support. No Steam-Deck. The list is very very long. Until Epic starts delivering, the 30% cut Valve takes is more than justified.
I never gave it a chance, as theit practice of paying for exclusivity is infuriating to me.
Make your shit better. Hell, make it comparable, and charge a lower cit (so devs make more), and I'd support then.
Paying to make the market more closed off sucks.
I gave it a chance when they took over Rocket League. The damn platform doesn't even support profile avatars while Steam did. So to get a basic nice feature working all you had to do was... not use their platform.
They still don't have avatars.
FWIW, my understanding is that the owner of Epic is actively anti-Linux, so your third feature is a unlikely at best. The fourth was only remotely likely due to market share.
Heroic launcher works pretty well to get epic and gog games in the deck. But yes, support could be better, especially since i remember unreal tournament being Linux friendly early on.
Yeah i get and play the free games from there, but they don't seem to want to do more than the bare minimum for the storefront so I won't purchase anything through them.
It's beyond me how they can affors all of these free games and exclusive but not a single capable developer to make this platform beyond just the bare minimum.
I don’t get why anyone pays attention to these wannabe Hollywood producers like him or Todd Howard. The most interesting and innovative things in gaming are NOT happening in the AAA space.
Honestly AAA studios don't even exist anymore. Is there any gaming studio making multipe $60 games per year you can name where you would vouch for the quality of their games solely on the basis of who made it?
Maybe some first party console games(and even then only some series), but nothing for PC.
I'd like to think Firaxis and Sid Meier still hold water for Civilization at least, but I do get your point. Most of the games I go back to now and enjoy are nowhere near the ballpark of "AAA".
I'd be very worried if a studio was pumping out several full-scale games a year. Did you mean publisher? I find following publishers to be pretty hit or miss, they usually deal with a multitude of game studios whose output will vary wildly. The days of EA making a bunch of EA games is over, now people care whether it's Dice, Respawn or BioWare, and what the specific game is like.
Studios still just making games do exist. Kojima Productions, Santa Monica, Guerilla, Remedy, Fromsoft, Square Enix, Larian, Id Tech, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, CDPR...
They're just relatively fewer and farther between as so many studios have pivoted to spending years and years working on one live service title or another, and the rest of these you only really hear from once in several years, when a game comes out.
For publishers, Devolver and Paradox come to mind.
I don't even bother claiming free Amazon games on the epic store.
do nothing
Win
The gaben method works again
This is a CEO covering his ass. Nothing to see here folks
What he really meant to say was that he shilled out for the bags of money
I would love to see reasonable competition to steam which would give consumers and developers better options, but Epic ain't it
What would a better option look like? Steam user experience is great. Games are cheap entertainment. What more could you ask for?
I would love to see reasonable competition to steam which would give consumers and developers better options
No one's going to compete with and outdo Steam with Linux support.
GOG exists and has managed to carve out a DRM-free niche for itself for more than 15 years now.
I have some games on GOG. It's fine.
I like the fact they tried to compete with Steam from the begining. I have a large library of games and some real gems that I wouldn't normally look at.
EGS is ok, GOG is ok and also Steam is just ok too for what I want from a store/launcher.
No digital game store is worth your loyalty.
Steam is just ok to for what I want from a store/launcher.
It's not just ok, compared to the alternatives. A games library that cannot be matched, regular sales, easy no-frills refunds, cloud saves, beta support, family mode, big picture support, seamless integration with the Steam deck, which in its own right, has pushed right-to-repair and Linux gaming to new heights. The competition doesn't even have any of this stuff, including the console market, and if they can't compete, they don't deserve my money.
No digital game store is worth your loyalty.
I'm fine being loyal to a privately-owned company that actually gives a shit about its customers. As long as Gabe is still alive and they will continue to be privately-owned, the company will stay in good graces.
I'm not going to argue my point any further but I will say, use it all for what you want. Absolute loyalty, which you seem to have, is pointless.
No digital game store is worth your loyalty.
When that store is run by a company that contributes massively to open source and works harder and puts more money into enabling alternate platforms for gaming than all other companies combined; ya, they have my loyalty.
Don't confuse their initiative for benevolence. At the end of the day it's all still for their own benefit and their ecosystem.
The contributions to open source are still a nice side effect.
It isn't even loyalty for me, I just have to real reason to go to the other store with 99% of my games being on steam, mostly purchased during a sale. The only exception is GoG, because they actually offer something the others don't with their DRM-less versions of games.
With his Linux takes I'm starting to think ol Tim doesn't have a good grasp on computer games
Imagine if both epic and the devs made an agreement to make all games 10% cheaper and share the costs.
How does that benefit devs? Epic should swallow the cost if it wants to do that
Gearbox founder? Is this about greasy Randy?