So tired of Adobe. They're part of the problem.
So tired of Adobe. They're part of the problem.
cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/3376057
I held off on Windows 10 for as long as I could until my job required it. Now this nonsense. I hope this isn't the start of them joining on the web DRM bandwagon.
Fuck Adobe, not supporting Linux, and now not even supporting Firefox, the once most used browser? Whoever pirates their crappy software deserves a statue.
I'd like my statue doing one of Luigi's taunt poses, please
I wonder what their excuse will be once Linux surpasses MacOS in market share.
"Whoa there!"
Go fuck yourself with that fellow kids corporate speak. That pisses me off so much, way more than it probably should.
Absolutely disgusting.
OOPSIE WOOPSIE!! Uwu We made a fucky wucky!! A wittle fucko boingo! The code monkeys at our headquarters are working VEWY HAWD to fix this!
Honestly I'd respect that more.
Any software company that uses monthly subscriptions as their business model can fuck right off. Let us own what we buy.
As another comment suggests, try to change your user-agent. Chameleon is great.
Are we surprised that Adobe is doing this? Adobe is exactly who I would've suspected adapting this bullshit immediately.
This is the main issue with that web DRM "security" shit that Google is trying to push. They have such a great market share now that big websites can now afford to put a check "only for Chrome" losing a very small percentage of users
Not that the DRM thing isn't going to fuel this behaviour but this is already possible with the current browser specs. The DRM shit will just make it worse.
Try using this: User-Agent Switcher and Manager
Doesn't that one have ads?
Edit: Yup, it does.
Yup. Often these User agent switchers just do the trick. But some companies design their stuff to break on FF. (I'm looking at you Microsoft)
This thing is a lifesaver. I use it all the time.
This is exactly what I was about to comment
Get a user agent switcher extension
I haven't checked, but I'd guess it's because of some non-standard feature that only Chromium supports, not because of user-agent.
In my experience, companies typically use this message because they only officially support/test on the listed browsers. They block out any other browser to cut down on support emails. If you spoof your user agent so the site thinks you're using a supported browser, somewhere between 95%-100% of the functionality will usually work just fine.
A lot of sites work with just a useragent switch. Still worth trying
That's the thing - i haven’t checked either. Guess what's the next step? User agent switcher
Not supporting Firefox is WAY down the list of crimes Adobe has committed against their customers. I’m not all surprised by this post
There isn't anything that Adobe charges money for that you can't find an open source alternative.
Im REALLY trying to make myself learn Affinity Photo, but I just keep falling back to PhotoPea which is like an in browser Photoshop clone
is there a list of that
Try a user agent changer
Adobe, a company which developed nothing but just bought off 3rd party software by acquiring the actual developing company, and stitched everything together somehow, like a Frankenstein's Creature, and finally sold it as a service.
Thank you, but no thank you.
Same applies for Autodesk.
Oracle, IBM and sap too
No wonder why 2013 was the worst year ever.
Are you kidding - they basically invented the problem. They were one of the first to move to the "rent your software" model way back when
I've refused to use Adobe for a while because of their bullshit. Their main product I care about is Lightroom, but Darktable is a perfectly fine replacement for it
Time for #abode , I want to believe ;)
No way this isn't just satire or even a scam.
Are they going to be open source, support linux, and end the corporate elitism around graphic design software? If so I'd definitely use it and support it if it releases, if not then I wouldn't. I do not and will not support commercial elitism.
I bet I'm going to get quite a few whiny replies for this from people going "but muh money" or "dEveLopErs nEeD tO bE paYed foR thEiR woRk" if you want to be paid you set up donations, if you think trying to force people to pay is better, just remember that you can't actually Force anybody to pay for anything (hell even Adobe can't, people still pirate Adobe software).
It would certainly be nice to have more Linux and open source projects, but that doesn't seem to be this projects goal. I suspect that there's a market for not always online adobe style products, even with piracy I'm sure the money is a lot better than donations. Also could you share what your definition of commercial elitism is?
Anyone linking that also need to be linking the FTC. Adobe forwards all communication from the web compact to the bin, with disdain.
To be fair I think most of the reports on webcompat go straight into the bin.
Fuck Adobe. As an industry professional I have to use multiple offerings from them, and they have ALL gotten worse, rather than better. It all started going downhill when they started their bullshit subscription-only model.
They're not part of the problem. They're the problem.
I have been removing Adobe from my life starting way back with Flash, long before it was discontinued. Then Acrobat and the final thing to go was when I switched to Affinity Photo and Designer and ditched Photoshop. It works every bit as well for me but I never was a Photoshop power user. For a long time the only company that showed up when I searched online to see if my email had been pwned was of course Adobe and that was over a decade ago.
User Agent Switch
So, you can't use adobe with a widely-used and -accepted browser, you must use one of the notoriously unscrupulous and anti-privacy tech giants' browsers. Nothing worrying there! /s Also, more of "Bullshit As Usual" from adobe
I’d seriously consider if your task can be accomplished with any other software. Personally I find LibreOffice Draw to be a perfectly adequate Adobe Acrobat Pro replacement for most situations. I know everyone has a different workflow though.
Does a user agent change this
wait so it straight up just refuses to work if it detects that you have Firefox via the user agent??? I knew Adobe was scummy, but THAT MUCH?
That's the go to way to do it, you only allow the browsers that you know work, Firefox probably works fine for most things but maybe one feature breaks and instead of fixing it they decided to remove it from the whitelist
That dude ain't joking. You can bypass similar bs by changing user agent
The server just sends files as responses to http requests. If the server is playing nice and just checks the user agent reported by the client, then that's what you would expect.
And, it might make sense to do so in order to provide a product that meets certain requirements. It is certainly worrying that they need to do that, and not a good thing to make products exclusive to proprietary clients.
yes, you can find an addon for it in the marketplace
Although this isn't convenient. You could always file an issue on WebCompat to fix this.
This is exactly why I switched from Photoshop to Affinity. It's just as good and somewhat even better than PS and it's a one time purchase forever. I will never look back.
"I held off on Windows 10 for as long as I could until my job required it."
Good, users like you are the reason ransomware happens. Fucking update your shit. Windows 7 isn't secure anymore.
@c0mbatbag3l @jeena Or just stop using MS products. They build in backdoors just for criminals anyway.
How do you know he wasn't using Linux?
"Held off" doesn't really sound like he switched from one to another, just like he's holding out on updating the OS.
Fuck your judgemental horseshit. Enjoy your loss of ownership and telemetry laiden trash.
I use arch btw.
/s but seriously "held off" doesn't mean "kept using aftsr end of service" like you assumed. Lots of people waited till 7's end of life to switch.
@TeepoPeeto @c0mbatbag3l Stuck with Win2k from 1999-2010, was forced onto XP when stuff like games wouldn't install because 2k didn't have Windows Firewall. Never mind the PC already had a decent firewall (think it was atGuard).
Still use Win7, in a VM, as it's where my 🏴☠️ Adobe products run.
I don't even understand the hate. It works well, stable, fast and pretty decent on RAM. Even early on I haven't had any major issues.
Yeah, I'm generally an early adopter of software, even installed XP media center edition and Win 8 as soon as they were available through the volume licensing center. I've never understood the hate around 10 or 11 on the whole. Yes they have a few frustrating aspects, but overall, they're significant improvements. I occasionally use a win 10 device at work, and it feels clunkier than 11 now. 7 was great, but it isn't worth compromising an entire network for.
I like how you just assumed win7.
I held off to - when 7's support ended I moved to 8.1 and used openshell to make it look like 7. When 8.1 support ended I moved to 10 finally. I have to stay on a supported os for security and compliamce, but I make my employer pay for the upgrades and I don't rush to the latest version - as long as its still supported I'm not moving.
I have a light at the end of the tunnel tho. My work tools are getting official linux versions. My work laptop has been windows but my home desktop has been linux. I may be able to drop windows entirely soon.
Edit: "he didn't upgrade AND he disagreed with our hive minds opinion! Quick downvote!" How about you just Go back to reddit losers.
Of course I assumed windows 7, no one liked Windows 8/8.1
I'd wouldn't blame anyone for skipping right over it to 10, it's what I did. We are all required to run 11 now but 10 is still fine from a security posture at the moment in my opinion.
I'm not security, just a network engineer with a background in security auditing, so I could have out of date info on 10 still being safe, but it still gets updates at least.
Thank God I never had to learn any Adobe products, one of the most anti-consumer companies out there.
Adobe has been a constant frustration for me. I was having issues with Acrobat DC on Windows 10 and ended up having to uninstall the 64 bit version and installing the legacy 32 bit version in its place.
I want to use something else for PDF editing but our company refuses to consider alternatives.
I miss the days of Creative Suite. You know, when you can just buy the thing once and do whatever you want with it for the rest of your life?
I actually miss the days of Macromedia even more. Those round icons with the weird typography are just timeless. Especially the Flash logo.
I was really hoping that the current AI tool revolution would finally kick Adobe off but with them buying Figma (which shouldn't have been allowed by anti trust in the first place) I don't see that happening yet. One day though.
I hijack this to inform that LR for Android can be revanced.
as in something similar to YouTube revanced? Do you know if there a community or discord? That would be neat
Yes, it's on the revanced GitHub..
I only have a telegram channel with apks (without guarantee on them).
Looked it up and apparently its for tiktoks and AI. So, youre not missing out on much.
Hear hear. If you make the mistake of subscribing to Adobe canceling is like pulling teeth. Can't stand them as a company.
Their billing has been shady as fuck for two decades. This company is the worst.
Fuck Adobe
I love how on most sites it works with a user agent switcher
Its a clear sign they feel threatened. Their fall is near.
Remember when they killed Flash? That sucked
I think Apple was more to blame for that.
Ya fuck them, they should've killed flash five years earlier.
Yep, fuck em.
Always have been. All along the way there's been an issue on sites or software and Adobe has been there
🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
Nah, honestly I get this. They likely don’t let you run it in Safari either.
The problem is that each browser use different rendering and JavaScript engines. They all follow the same spec, but implement things differently, and at a different pace. Firefox tends to be really speedy with adding features.
Rendering is one thing, but for web apps the main issue is how they each implement JavaScript differently. Chromium uses the V8 engine, Safari uses JavaScriptCore, and Firefox uses SpiderMonkey.
Each one of these implementations handle certain JS features differently.
Array.prototype.sortis a good example.This means that when developing your application you need to keep track of what differences each browser has, and write/use polyfills or conditionals to ensure that your methods work as expected on all platforms.
This becomes cumbersome quickly, and easily leads to a messy code base and technical debt as the application grows.
It further complicates testing since you’ll need to test each release on each browser.
The easy cop-out solution is to just support a single platform, and direct people not on that platform to use the browser you’ve developed for.
The go-to choice there is obviously Chrome, since it has the most users. Photoshop Express is a free application developed with the hopes of hooking people onto buying a subscription. Thus they’d want as big a reach as possible. It would make no sense to develop for Firefox and push people to use that instead from a business perspective, most people wouldn’t just download a second browser just to use an app.
Edit: you can obviously spoof your user agent and bypass the check that way. Some features might be broken in Firefox though, and I wouldn’t expect a fix.
As a developer with 7+ years industry experience this is a very weak excuse to not support browsers.
Differences in features are usually down to bleeding edge stuff and I don't think your example of sort would apply because the end result is the same.
I know Adobe are more prone to using newer browser features but there really shouldn't be anything that's not simple enough to assure support across all browsers. Especially for a company as big as Adobe. It's inexcusable. We rarely have to use polyfills now, that was more a problem when I was starting out, mainly due to IE11 still holding out.
Sure, but it's a common excuse.
The company I work for doesn't test on anything other than Chrome because we have a relatively niche audience that uses corporate-provided computers, and Chrome is available on all machines. The app seems to work fine, but we don't spend any QA resources on it.
The last company I worked for was the same way, but with a little more diverse userbase. Testing on Firefox would increase our QA time, and very few customers cared, so we only supported Chrome. I would occasionally fix things for Firefox, so the app mostly worked fine, but at didn't spend any QA resources on it.
And so on. I'm guessing that's the case here as well. They don't want people complaining about things not working if it works fine on Chrome. Firefox may work fine, but they're not willing to spend QA resources proving it, and they don't want the support overhead from customers complaining if something doesn't work properly with Firefox.
Nah, honestly I get this. They likely don’t let you run it in Safari either
That's literally the first supported browser they list in OP's screenshot.
Hmm. Good point.
Could be because Safari is using WebKit and so people assume that Safari and Chrome works the same way because back in the day they were quite close.
WebKit is Apple’s fork of KHTML and KJS, both originally made by the KDE project (yes that KDE) for the Konqueror browser.
Google used WebKit (WebCore specifically) when building Chromium, but replaced KJS with a new JavaScript engine called V8. V8 is still used in Chromium today, but also went on to become Node.js
Apple forked KJS, their version is now called JavaScriptCore.
The support for Safari could be because of an assumption that since Chromium was built from Safari, they’d work more or less the same, but they don’t.
This means that when developing your application you need to keep track of what differences each browser has, and write/use polyfills or conditionals to ensure that your methods work as expected on all platforms.
core-jshas existed for nearly a decadeSafari is one of the listed supported browsers
"Firefox uses spidermonkey"
So THAT'S why the extension is called grease monkey.
this was a great explanation. I'm fully onboard with the "fuck Google and their web drm nonsense" but there has to be a disconnect from avoiding bad actors and recognizing the reality of the industry. ty for posting.
I feel like it’s necessary to mention that I’m just speculating, and don’t have any affiliation with Adobe, thus I can’t say for certain that I know why they choose to not support Firefox.
I’ve been in the position before though where I’ve chosen not to support non Blink/V8 browsers for the reasons listed above.
The fragmented nature of the web platform makes it a pain to develop for, in a way you don’t necessarily experience with “real” languages.
I have been, and honestly still am, of the opinion that Mozilla should just forego their engine and move to Chromium. Not because one is better than the other - if anything I think Mozilla’s implementations are, as they tend to be more “by the book” - but in unifying the web platform it’d be easier to develop for, and it would bring the added bonus of Google not having as big a monopoly on what goes on in Chromium.
Microsoft moving to Chromium was big in that sense, so I’d love to see an established FOSS vendor like Mozilla exert their influence on the project.
Proprietary software has basically just turned into a giant grift and it makes me not want to use any of it anymore.
You could try changing your spoofing your Userscript, then you could keep using Firefox.
Visited the same site from my browser. Didn't get this though.
Which browser? And which device? And which pages on the site?
Firefox, win10, this website in the image up until the .com.
I've tried switching from Lightroom to Darktable and/or Rawtherapee, but found neither to produce the results I wanted. Any other alternatives I should try?
Not FOSS but I switched from lightroom to Capture One and found it superior in almost every way.
I actually did use Capture One Express for a time and was quite happy, but I recently switched back to my old Olympus MFT and sold my Fuji gear for financial reasons (which unfortunately makes the price for Capture One tricky right now). I may just have to try to make do with Rawtherapee for now.
These are the best foss/free available. I used darktable for some time, and I can say for sure it does the job well, but at the cost of your time. If you aren't into toiling over each photo Lightroom is the way to go
I'm so glad I'm not working in an industry that requires me to be beholden to that garbage company.
Wow. Before, I could use it with no issues, but then recently, it would just randomly log me out (even on Chrome), so I had to use the app on the Microsoft Store. (Which I'm pretty sure is just a web browser)
As a web dev imma play devils advocate and say I get it. Cross browser support is hard sometimes and Firefox has some of the weirdest quirks.
That being said this isn't some hobby project its a multi billion dollar company so absolutely they could be doing better.
As a fellow web dev, I disagree! Cross browser support adds very little overhead in my experience, and not doing it in 2023 is really just lazy and unacceptable imo.
Back in the day it was harder, especially supporting IE 11-, but now since there are really only 2-3 rendering engines to develop for it shouldn't be as hard.
Also, they already support safari which is the hardest browser to support of the group. Firefox support is trivial compared to making sure it looks good on safari.
Agreed honestly the only ones I really run into nowadays are Safari issues
That is an incredibly weak excuse for a company like adobe.
Yeah, they should have the resources to hire pretty much the best devs, it's not like they are a startup or in some kind of backwater situation. They're an old company with a big name and a lot of money.
Why do you use adobe products? I tried Photoshop about 10 years ago, when i was developing a DLC for a game (multilayer textures up to 4096*4096 with addition, substract effects with AO map, normal, specular maps) it was totally ok with GIMP, but with photoshop it crashed as used about 6x more RAM than gimp for the same file 🤣 and i didnt see any improvement over GIMP. Maybe now it would be different due to the AI things in ps, or maybe not 😆
If you paid for Photoshop you should've gotten Inkscape and Substance Painter instead, much better for 3D assets
I do appreciate that Firefox exists so that we have a choice to use something that isn't Chromium and mainly controlled by Google.
But from a business perspective, as Adobe, why would they devote developer time to supporting Firefox? Just to not piss off some nerds that care about that type of shit? What's that like 1% of the population?
Firefox has almost a big market share as safari and bigger than edge, yet here we are.
They're all Chrome for Christ's sake! Edge? Opera? Brave? They're the same browser! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
Safari is the default browser for Apple which Adobe likes and while most people don't use Edge it's chromium at the end of the day.
Diehard Firefox user but calling out those examples ignores the facts at the end of the day.
From a business perspective they just look cheap, lazy and snobby because plenty of other sites, even way smaller sites with far less resources, seem to figure it out just fine. Firefox may not be huge but it's been around and plenty of people use it. It's not like it's some nerdy little niche side project. They aren't paid to decide what browser you're allowed to use and we all know they can afford to not be shitty about it. I'm tired of the "business perspective" and no longer willing to see anything by it for any even remotely large company. That's what got us into this mess. Their business perspective can suck an egg.
Firefox afaik is web standards compliant so if you make it work in Firefox, it'll work in all other browsers that are standards compliant (including Chromium based browsers).