Crossposting here because apparently this transphobic mod is running their community, where they enable other transphobes, on this instance, which I don't think they should be allowed to

Tolerance of intolerance is how intolerance prospers.

Bigotry is not a matter of opinion, it is one of hate.

If that Maga chud kept repeating talking points about how people like you don't deserve human rights and actually managing to strip you of some, would you excise them or politely debate them?

Not every idea deserves a debate

Your misogyny isn't some enlightened understanding.

Cis women are not the biggest fucking victims of transphobia, jfc...

Judgmental much?

I’ve defended trans people in conversation about sports from a place of empathy. I imagine how I’d feel if some bureaucrats told me I had to play on a girls team. How out of place I’d feel at practice, in the locker room, on the bus to competitions, etc.

The problem I have is when right-wingers come at me with skeletomuscular advantage and detailed sports statistics, I’m in over my head. I won’t even broach the conversation any more, because I felt my lack of insight just helped them feel like they proved their point.

I could remain quiet, but I have a moral obligation to stand up for the oppressed. You don’t have to help inform me, but you don’t have to be a dick about it either.

(Psst I think the word you meant was ‘gist’)

Perfect. I’ll definitely check that out. Thank you!

If anyone else is as strapped as I am, I just confirmed they have the E-book for loan on my local library website. Borrowing from the library may help authors less than purchase, but it’s still better than piracy.

I replied to the above comment. Just letting you know if you want to take a look at what I had to say.

I ment the tone of the original post complaining about the trans woman playing on the women's team. I appreciate that article and agree with it. But I don't really feel bad about doing it to people who are expressing anger because trans people exist.

I would be interested in any articles you have about the biological changes I was talking about. I would love to read anything you have. I'm going off of general classes I took in college. Like developmental, human, and cell biology. Nothing was specific on transitioning, just the general sexual dimorphism in humans.

What makes you think it's willful ignorance over garden-variety ignorance? Being incorrect and thinking you are correct is different from purposefully keeping yourself ignorant.

I have no horse in this race, and willfully being ignorant and spreading disinformation about trans topics willfully is indeed transphobic and warrants aggressive shutdowns, like the comment I'm replying to. But unless I'm missing something I don't see the evidence of bad intent here? It just seemed like a bit of a leap.

That makes perfect sense, past behavior definitely changes things. I appreciate the explanation.

Maybe some people learn things by asking questions in the right spaces to be corrected intellectually. I'm completely fine with being wrong, that's why I asked a controversial question here. I don't need you to provide studies to rethink my opinion, I just figured people in this thread might have some available. Apparently the only thing you have on hand at the moment is snark.

Also you'll only help educate people if you get paid? What??? This would have been such a good moment to point me toward literally any resources that could help in my research. You didn't even have to link a study, you could just link a database. You and I both know there are studies funded by special interest groups that are biased against trans people. I never claimed to have a credible opinion, which is why I invited discourse.

Anyway, thanks for your statement. I guess I'll have to look into this more myself. Just keep in mind that most people, when the burden of research is placed upon them by someone who clearly has knowledge of the subject, will simply say "fuck that" and keep being ignorant.

EDIT: If you check this thread again, I'd like to apologize for my incredulity at your statement. I didn't realize the full ignorance on display in my original comment at the time, and my response was fueled by that. I acted as though you were being overly snarky, which I no longer believe was the case. I acted as though research was a burden. It's not, but my point was that I was seeking information socially and assumed someone might have studies on hand, which is what I was looking for, and your response didn't offer. You did, however, give me the correct information - it was my mistake to act as though it was unfounded due to your unwillingness to provide sources. So, in contradiction to what I said earlier, I did need studies to rethink my opinion. That was completely my mistake, and I should have thought more about what I wanted from this discussion before posting or responding in the first place. You are correct, it is my responsibility to educate myself. I should have used your statement as a jumping off point for my own research, but I was caught up in the one detail of my original post wherein I asked for studies, and because of that I saw your comment as less informational and more snarky. I apologize for misinterpreting your intentions.

I do still believe the uneducated need a helping hand from time to time. My purpose was to reach out for that, not to start a fight, and I apologize for being inflammatory as well.

All that said, I don't necessarily think it was a bad idea to reveal my ignorance, as you helped inform me, and led to an interaction where someone did link studies that proved me wrong. I understand how I came across, and why you would be unwilling to put in that effort for someone displaying that level of ignorance. It was unfair to insinuate that I'd be having this discussion under my terms - I apologize for that. I'm grateful that flamingembers did step in to meet me on my ground, and strongly believe that in some cases (mine included) using someone's established mindset and what they're willing to accept to spark discussion that leads to change is what helps them grow. However, I recognize your attempt to do this in your response and apologize for my unwillingness to connect at the time because I didn't see how it fit into my original question (which was supposed to be asking for studies, but really just came across as a challenge)

I'm leaving my original response unedited. I hope anyone else reading this can use my original response as an example of how not to clarify your thoughts.

You're right, that is an unrealistic solution. I've never been interested in sports, so I admit I didn't really put much thought into that. I guess, in my mind, trans people in sports is one of the less dire issues we face today. But, I should acknowledge that there are trans people whose life revolves around sports, and I appreciate you framing it the way it is: separate but 'equal.' That really adds a stark perspective to it that I admittedly had not considered.

Thank you so much for linking research, I'll read that right now.

EDIT: I didn't read the article, I clicked their link to the study and read the abstract and data. So, if I'm reading the data correctly, the only factor measured where trans athletes have an advantage is the slightly higher grip strength of trans women? Just making sure I'm interpreting that correctly. Thank you so much for sending that my way.

separate but equal is not an ethical solution

But isn't this how sport already is? Do you think gender restrictions should be removed from sport altogether?

I don't think a trans-only league makes any sense, but I'm just curious about your stance.

There's a difference between tolerating someone's beliefs and immediately adopting them as your own. Just because someone doesn't share your beliefs, does not mean they are being intolerant.

You're right; I didn't really mean it in the context of "ruin their lives" but my cat started barfing on the floor mid-typing and I had to chase the little plastic demon away and got distracted and then I slipped on a banana peel and it slid me a minimum of three metres in a single direction and then I hit a bookcase and a dusty tome landed in front of me (in front have me?) and opened on a very auspicious page. Very auspicious indeed, for it cast a magical spell that turned me into a newt. It got better, though. Anyway, I digress.