TIL of the Business Plot, a conspiracy to overthrow the presidency of FDR and install a fascist dictatorship in 1933

So they didn't prosecute a single individual in this attempt. Guess our government as always allowed insurrection go unpunished in our country. Just like Trump and his J6th people.

Even better, it allowed for a political dynasty to come from it anyways. Prescott Bush, the father of George H. W Bush and grandfather of George W. Bush and Jeb Bush, was one of the parties involved with the Business Plot, and the Bushes seemed to do a fine job carrying on his legacy.
- Wow. This makes so much sense.
- Stop making me sad sir! I see you reciting facts, and putting reality on full display. This only means that it doesn't matter what we do, fascism will always be a lurking and sometimes more than lurking threat. Even if you stop it's current plans, it's always there, unpunished, ready to rear it's ugly head in future generations.
  
  STOP MAKING ME SAD, SIR!!!
- Should've been executed tbh.
When the powerful people do it, the state will protect them while socialists got the rope for essentially shit posting because the plebs liked it a bit too much.
right wing insurrection*

mlk and malcom x were persecuted, nazis are the ones getting a pat on the head, which tells you what you need to know about the us government.
FDR waved prosecution in exchange for the fascist senators involved. Voting for his legislation.
- Some things about the Dems never change do they?
They didn't prosecute anyone because there was essentially no evidence beyond the accusation of one man, and even then no-one was accused of doing anything beyond talking about it
- Found a conspirator.
  
  Although seriously, it's mentioned in the Wikipedia article that the investigating committee said there is strong evidence of the plotting. They didn't prosecute anyone becaus of course rich people won't be prosecuted. I have read rumours that Franklin Roosevelt may have made some backroom deal.
- Nice try, zuck.

I love that I never learned about this until I read history books for fun as an adult. You'd think that young students, growing up in this country, should know what the wealthy class has done in full to try and keep them oppressed, whether it's the Business Plot, the Battle for Blair Mountain, the violent government response to rail strikes, etc. etc. etc.

But no.

Schools don't teach this stuff on purpose.

the Battle for Blair Mountain

Welp, here's another rabbit hole on the list. See yall later 👋😀
- Let me know how you come out. Happy digging rabbit. Happy digging.
  
  Edit: One of the crazy things in that wiki article to me was it listed ~1,000,000 shots fired, and only about 34 dead.
  
  That would mean if the average person shot 100 rounds, and they knew 300 other people in attendance, on average 1 of those 300 may have actually shot someone dead.
  
  I liked the movie League of Extraordinary Gentlemen back in the day, but now I know what he meant when he quoted Americans as "fire enough bullets and hope to hit the target"
- 1892 Homestead Strike and The Haymarket Affair too.
  
  Happy rabbit holing.
  
  It's like the rich forgot. And while I really don't want to see political violence I am sure that a country with more guns than people is not going to react well to a new gilded age.
- I would recommend Chill Goblin's Oliver Anthony, Welfare, and Blair Mountain.
The curriculum is written by the very class that these moments in history shades. Of course they're not taught.

And guess who was one of the conspirator? Big daddy (Prescott) Bush.

Gods, in the span of 20 years we've gone from a president descended from an attempted fascist overthrow to watching the fascist overthrow happen through "legal" means.

This is why it is important to hang traitors.

Smedley Butler's healthy distrust of those in power was developed at an early age when his parents named him Smedley.

🎶Smedley cat, Smedley cat ...
Heh, sometimes you learn by seeing what wrong looks like. Well put, Squid!

Smedley Butler was a hero on so many levels, a modern day Cincinnatus. He proved himself in battle again and again, and the rich and powerful offered him a throne. He turned it down, because he was a decent man. A man of conscience.

Truth, and it invokes fond memories of some of my favorite Bean books, although Orson Scott Card can go fuck himself.
- I would imagine that it is a bizarre feeling to see people admire so deeply characters that you created, but hate your guts.
  
  I don’t see this with JK Rowling. She pretty much ended the love affair people had with the Potter universe. At least that is true in circles that I hang in. 20 years ago my friends were in love with Harry Potter. They had merchandise everywhere. Now it’s nearly a total boycott.
  
  With Card though, people just can’t let go of those characters. They’re able to separate them so much from him that they can hold onto their love.
  
  Maybe it’s because he doesn’t go out of his way to push his bullshit beliefs down people’s throats whereas Rowling really loves being in the spotlight, pissing people off. Well, that and people just tend to feel a deeper connection to the Ender/Bean characters.
  
  I’ve read all of them but one, and it was the one that came out way later to cover what happens with Ender between Game/Speaker. I bought it, I just never got around to it. Those books gave me a feeling I never got anywhere else. I need to read them again with that newer one in the proper place.
  
  Sorry, you just got me thinking.
- Everyone should read his "war is a racket".

took them 90 years but it worked out in the end

It worked out like 20 years later, let's not kid ourselves. Shit, it worked out then. The government committee suspected wrongdoing but did nothing, nobody got in trouble. It's safe to assume they found another way in. And it's clear they did. American middle class has not improved for 50+ years.
- George Carlin used to say the nazis lost the war but fascism won.
Now we get to contrast both approaches and assess what we've doomed ourselves to. Future historians will appreciate this case study.

Man, Smedley Butler underwent a hell of an arc. From being a proud soldier of American imperialism, to becoming the father of modern police forces, to foiling a fascist plot to overthrow the country and becoming an outspoken anti-war advocate. He went from one end of the political spectrum to the other.

He also won the Congressional Medal of Honor twice.
I listened to an audiobook about him.

I'm not sure I e ever been so impressed by the conduct and ethics of any other individual on earth.
Great Behind the Bastards episode on smedley

Major General Smedley Butler seemed like a fairly respectable guy. He was like the worst choice the Wall Street plotters could've picked. The man had already been denouncing capitalism and Wall Street, so of course he testified to Congress when rich people tried to get him to overthrow democracy.

Very strange indeed to pick Smedley. But actually like with many secret plots, if you go into the details, the conspirators can be surprisingly inept. The December plot to overthrow the Russian tsardom and replace it with a republic comes to mind. It failed because of lack of coordination, communication, and one of the major co-conspirators lost his nerve at the last minute and thus did not add numbers to the troops of rebels. There was plenty of idealism but it lacked the nerves and good plan execution.

I remember learning about this as a kid from, of all places, a 1976 detective show called City of Angels (starring Wayne Rogers). Ten-year-old me thought it was so cool they would even broach such a topic on TV. As ways to become radicalised go ...

Huh that's really interesting. I had heard of Smedley Butler but was unaware of the plot until I watched the movie Amsterdam. It doesn't pretend to be an accurate depiction, even the names are changed but the coup attempt is the same

Interestingly nobody was prosecuted for this, even though the House of Reps determined that it was real. Apparently "conspiracy" isn't always the crime it's supposed to be.

In light of the final outcome of Jan 6, it seems to be exactly what one should have expected.
Arresting people for conspiracy is only for Rosenbergs, not for the rich.
We really need better laws and an independent law enforcement agency to enforce them. A modern day group of untouchables.
- I think what we need is to take away money's influence on politics. The most effective way I know to do that is by capping wealth.
Don't you know? IOKIYAAR
- Ingrate Ostriches Kill in Yosemite Antique Auction Rehearsals. Jesus Christ, someone should do something about this

Margot Robbie, Christian Bale, and John David Washington, were in a movie about that plot, Amsterdam(2022).

Thanks, I thought there was a movie but I was having trouble finding the name.
I can't believe I had to scroll down this far to find someone mentioned this. THANKS

It just took the another 90 years or so.

The early 20th century labor movement negotiated with capitalists for a temporary ceasefire in the class war. Like peace with Putin, it wasnt peace, just an opportunity for the 1 % to grow stronger.

Took them damn well long enough but they finally saw it through

This story all comes down to how much you trust Smedley, which, having read his biography, I'm not sure that I do.

Smedley was a G, and the committee who looked into basically found wrongdoing but did nothing about it.
Why not? He's a pretty decorated war hero.
- I mean, his early life was riddled with fucked up actions (mostly carrying out orders to create Banana Republics), but it's exactly why he turned around on the government and called them out on the bullshit. There is very real evidence the plot existed, but those responsible escaped trial most likely due to Roosevelt's interference (strange how robber barons suddenly got quiet about his New Deal).

TIL the acronym FDR

I know more about FDR than I do about the last president of turkey. Who the fuck was president before Erdoğan? Seriously it's been 25 years of Erdoğan
- TIL: Abdullah Gül
  
  Though I find the predecesor before Gül even more interesting: Ahmet Necdet Sezer. Apparently he was the last secular president of Turkey. "During receptions at the presidential palace, Sezer refused to allow women wearing the headscarf to attend citing the laws on the separation of religion and state at the time; this resulted in the wives of Abdullah Gül and Erdoğan, Hayrünnisa Gül and Emine Erdoğan respectively, being barred from attendance. Erdoğan later said in public that he had 'suffered a lot' from Sezer.[3]" So he refused the wives of who would be his successors.
  
  "During the 2014 presidential election, won by Erdoğan, Sezer openly refused to vote, citing the lack of a secularist candidate as his reason" Turkey has a strong secularist tradition and I really hope it returns sometime. Atatürk is still being celebrated, but do people still believe in his secular ideals?